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Irishness a weakness???

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    #32
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    gob wrote: »
    I'm through to the final round interview with one of the large investment banks on Monday so I rang a relation of mine for some advice.

    I mentioned during the conversation that I was a bit put off at the assessment centre last week because everyone else was from one of the top U.K. universities (Oxford, Cambridge etc.) and I'm currently studying for my masters in DCU having done my undergrad. in UCD. He told me that alot of these big companies have a rating system for universities (all the Irish ones being 'bronze' with the exception of Trinity which is 'silver').

    He also suggested that if asked what my greatest weakness was that I should say that I don't go to a top school and he went even further to suggest I say that it's the fact I'm Irish! He told me that these big companies have diversity quotients to meet and often look for people from what might be considered nontraditional backgrounds compared to their usual intake.

    To clarify this relation is Irish himself, educated in Ireland and has interviewed people for these positions so he knows what he's talking about.

    I thought I did really well getting through to the final round now I'm beginning to wonder if I might be the beneficiary of positive discrimination!

    Anyone else think experienced anything like this? Think Irishness is a weakness in the international business world?


    Are you freaking kidding me ???
    I think he gave you terrible advice. Firstly if you say you don't go to a top school the immediate question is: "Why didn't you go to a top school ?". Plus its disloyal, and no-one wants a disloyal worker. And if you say your Irish that's also kind of disloyal. I also think they would see thru it as a tactic.
    Let me put it this way - I would only say that if you did NOT want the job.


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    #33
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    My niece is doing her masters in Edinburgh right now and its costing her nothing at all so we cant help but be thankful for that.

    She's said about 80% of students in her class are from Ireland which makes me curious about exactly what their quotas might be.


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    #34
    jumpguy
    Registered Users Posts: 7,962 ✭✭✭jumpguy


    Trinity is "silver"? But what if we don't want/have a posh accent and think saying "Samuel Beckett theatre" makes you sound like a ponce?


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    #35
    Cadiz
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    realcam wrote: »
    I have to admit I never even came close to those circles where it mattered whether I've been to a 'big name' university or any university or the one I've actually been to. Therefore I'm not really qualified to answer this. Me and 99.9% of the other readers here no doubt.

    But to me this sounds rather revolting to be frank. Everything about it.

    True realcam, the world of investment banking is rather revolting (no offence OP) :(


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    #36
    InTheTrees
    Registered Users Posts: 9,900 ✭✭✭InTheTrees


    Its very common in the US to grade people by the university they attended. Some places are better than others and have higher entrance reqs so I'd expect a graduate from there to be a few notches smarter then their equivalent from less stringent school...


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    #37
    Intothesea
    Registered Users Posts: 540 ✭✭✭Intothesea


    Maybe you could head down the suggested road without appearing to be disloyal -- by saying that your different cultural ethos is a known wildcard that you're sure you can deal with successfully given time. Though maybe that's as good as saying that you used to be Irish but learned to overcome it by focusing on moving to England to take up a great job :pac: Maybe could dwell on the relatively informal business demeanor accepted in Ireland, and that your awareness of it will keep you on your toes. /0.02.


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    #38
    citizen_p
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,494 ✭✭✭citizen_p


    whadabouchasir wrote: »
    I assume you mean "token" and not the lord of the rings author.
    i knew i shouldve edited that.....but i only noticed in closing th thread and was too lazy too come back.

    im guessing your the only guy to notice when somone says somthing stupid, who then proceeds to repeat it to a group, after said stupid person thought no one noticed.




    ohh and happy 1054th post to me....
    i never noticed the 1000 mark


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    #39
    enniscorthy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭enniscorthy


    YOU'LL
    NEVER
    BEAT
    THE
    IRISH


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    #40
    Duiske
    Registered Users Posts: 3,087 ✭✭✭Duiske


    Tell them your name is Dooh Nibor, and you like to rob from the poor and give to the rich. That will get you a job in any bank.


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    #41
    m5ex9oqjawdg2i
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,221 ✭✭✭✭m5ex9oqjawdg2i


    partyatmygaff wrote: »
    Discrimination is never positive. Anyways, I wouldn't dwell too much on that thought. Just go for it and do your best in the interview, think too much about it and you will lose confidence and it shows.

    Discrimination may very well be positive, but not in this case...


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    #42
    indough
    Registered Users Posts: 2,857 ✭✭✭indough


    eoin wrote: »
    I think s/he was just saying that discrimination is discrimination, no matter what spin you put on it.

    but what does that have to do with the term? all the word 'positive' means in this context is that the discrimination has worked in your favour rather than against you, it has nothing to do with the ethical implications


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    #43
    muboop1
    Registered Users Posts: 1,025 ✭✭✭muboop1


    Its very simple, every year there is a ranking taken globally on all universities.

    There are A classes (top 50) and B classes (50-100) and simply the rest.

    UCD is now a B class, While Trinity is an A class.

    The top 10-20 schools again are almost like their own particular league...

    The reasons are simple, better staff, facilities and in general higher standard to incoming students, ie they are more picky!

    A graduate from business from harvard compared with one from trinity in same degree would always be seen as a better candidate in general I'm afraid. Why? they likely had to work harder to get into the university and are known to produce better quality graduates.

    A lot of the UK schools would be in the top in the world.

    It's not because you are irish likely, probably these people have what is considered a higher basic qualification.


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    #44
    smcgiff
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,943 ✭✭✭smcgiff


    Worst advice ever :eek: - these bankers may or may not have some intrinsic negative perception (I doubt it) - they'll certainly think you're taking the Michael if you give this as a weakness in such an interview.

    They'll most like drop their jaws, give a quick look at each other and rap up the interview sharpish.

    If they ask for a weakness it has to be work related, and has been mentioned above mention something that you have had in the past and corrected or something you currently have and are in the process of training to correct, through training etc.

    As for positive discrimination - they'll most likely know you are Irish from your accent, unless you're the type to lose their accent after spending the weekend away :D;)

    As for Irish in the UK - think the aviation industry or in particular Peter Sutherland.


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    #45
    Exon
    Closed Accounts Posts: 181 ✭✭Exon


    Don't ask advice, tell him the truth, if he doesn't think you're good enough it's their loss!


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    #46
    gob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭gob


    Just to be clear I have no intention of saying that being Irish or studying at DCU is a weakness. I was as surprised as many of you! I just wanted to know if anyone had experienced anything like this before?

    With respect to the university rankings they have to have some method of separating candidates as over 1200 people applied for the position I'm going for and we're now down to the last 4. There's ample opportunity through the application process to sell yourself and prove your smarts by doing well on the online tests they get you to do so it's not just where you come from.

    I always figured coming from an Irish university would be a disadvantage but it had never occured to be that actually being Irish might be a disadvantage.


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    #47
    seraphimvc
    Registered Users Posts: 3,356 ✭✭✭seraphimvc


    FYI,ucd's smurfit has a better ranking in business than trinity - what he said was total BS!go google if ya dont believe!

    a degree is a degree,irish uni has a good reputation on that matter too - tell me if you got a 1st class and these people dare to look you down:D


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    #48
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,364 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    An Oxford graduate who comes across badly will lose out to someone from any Irish college who seems like they'll be a good person to work with. Particularly in interviews for smaller companies/departments where the interviewer will have to work with you.


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    #49
    mehmeh12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭mehmeh12


    OP your applying for a job in the banking sector despite the fact that your coming from a country that has failed ridiculously to keep itself solvent. Thats rich. Oh wait its not. The country is ruined. Perhaps the interviewers think your of the same ilk as Brian Cowen?


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    #50
    gob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭gob


    mehmeh12 wrote: »
    OP your applying for a job in the banking sector despite the fact that your coming from a country that has failed ridiculously to keep itself solvent. Thats rich. Oh wait its not. The country is ruined. Perhaps the interviewers think your of the same ilk as Brian Cowen?
    So you think I shouldn't be applying for a banking job in the UK because I'm from a country with a ruined banking system even though I have never worked in that system?


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    #51
    mehmeh12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭mehmeh12


    gob wrote: »
    So you think I shouldn't be applying for a banking job in the UK because I'm from a country with a ruined banking system even though I have never worked in that system?

    Highly unequal yes but no dought the interviewers may be thinking this in the back of their head. Just like the way in Ireland whenever anything goes wrong its some foreigner who is scapegoated for some non existent wrongdoing. Dont be suprised-its just how society is to outsiders. Its not like the english have a great history with the irish anyway.


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    #52
    gob
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37 ✭gob


    mehmeh12 wrote: »
    Highly unequal yes but no dought the interviewers may be thinking this in the back of their head. Just like the way in Ireland whenever anything goes wrong its some foreigner who is scapegoated for some non existent wrongdoing. Dont be suprised-its just how society is to outsiders. Its not like the english have a great history with the irish anyway.
    Well I had a Canadian interviewer on Tuesday and an Australian one this Monday for a position in an American bank so maybe we can get over the English-Irish thing???


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    #53
    mehmeh12
    Closed Accounts Posts: 921 ✭✭✭mehmeh12


    gob wrote: »
    Well I had a Canadian interviewer on Tuesday and an Australian one this Monday for a position in an American bank so maybe we can get over the English-Irish thing???

    Fine. Just avoid talking about NAMA and all will be well.


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    #54
    enniscorthy
    Registered Users Posts: 1,046 ✭✭✭enniscorthy


    YOU'LL
    NEVER
    BEAT
    THE
    IRISH

    olé olé olé olé


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    #55
    opinion guy
    Closed Accounts Posts: 11,001 ✭✭✭✭opinion guy


    gob wrote: »
    Just to be clear I have no intention of saying that being Irish or studying at DCU is a weakness. I was as surprised as many of you! I just wanted to know if anyone had experienced anything like this before?

    Actually yes I have experienced sometihng like this. Once when interviewing for a masters in a uk uni I was asked with snotty attitude why I didn't go to Trinity and was left with no doubt that they viewed my uni as beneath Trinity/them. But you know what ? F**k them. If the are prejudiced to begin with then there's nothing you can do about that. Their loss!


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    #56
    Cadiz
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    mehmeh12 wrote: »
    Highly unequal yes but no dought the interviewers may be thinking this in the back of their head. Just like the way in Ireland whenever anything goes wrong its some foreigner who is scapegoated for some non existent wrongdoing. Dont be suprised-its just how society is to outsiders. Its not like the english have a great history with the irish anyway.

    Doubt they are going to have pinning what's gone wrong with the Irish economy on a young (I'm assuming) Irish graduate in the back of their heads.

    I rarely found any anti-Irish issue in London. Things have changed. There is such mix of nationalities there.

    What I did find though is that we're not as special and unique as we think we are, or as some of us think we are. People don't care that you're Irish, it means nothing to them, it's your character and competencies that matter.

    Good luck with it OP!


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    #57
    Cadiz
    Registered Users Posts: 454 ✭✭Cadiz


    enniscorthy wrote: »
    YOU'LL
    NEVER
    BEAT
    THE
    IRISH

    olé olé olé olé

    You should go in chanting that OP :rolleyes:


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    #58
    Codofwar
    Registered Users Posts: 328 ✭✭Codofwar


    enniscorthy wrote: »
    YOU'LL
    NEVER
    BEAT
    THE
    IRISH

    olé olé olé olé



    France did.


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    #59
    Eoin
    Registered Users Posts: 21,242 ✭✭✭✭Eoin


    indough wrote: »
    but what does that have to do with the term? all the word 'positive' means in this context is that the discrimination has worked in your favour rather than against you, it has nothing to do with the ethical implications

    The term clearly implies that the discrimination taking place is a good thing, which I don't agree with.


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