Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

Sponge Bob

Funny enough CIE has a GSM licence on a special frequency called Railway GSM. They could theoretically ( not sure of frequencies and precise standards ) require other alignment users to roam onto this network and issue messages to them on occasion.

Markcheese

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Well done to all the greenway advocates everywhere.

Proposing realistic alignment protection solutions and keeping the alignments in public use and ownership is a most valid addition to the public discourse and beats watching a streak of rust and hogweed stretching to the horizon off the N17.

I'd also like to see Westtip reactivate his Express Bus Atlantic Corridor suggestion ( may have been made in the Roads forum not here) and 'Galway Hub' plan...I don't think that lot should go away while he is evidently busy. Once they reckon you is a guru they reckon you is a guru, way it is.

Getting off a bus at an express bus hub and lepping on a bicycle is rather a complementary activity set to my mind.

Tried suggesting a coach and bus stop at the park and ride at blackash in cork, was pitching it as transport hub to cork city council ( bike facilities coach stops,and city bus stops + ucc park and ride bus ) as it's near Douglas, frankfield, turners-cross ect. And the buses already pass by.... The lads from the council didn't seem impressed...
Know that's off thread but....
How long do people reckon ie will soldier on with the western rail corridor if it remains chronicly underused.... How long before it would be affordable to upgrade it, or politically acceptable to dump it....
Is there a formula for combining price paid by running cost and locals obvious lack of interest equals 2 years or 10 years or till next major capital injection required .... Good luck with the greenway north of athenry by the way ...best idea I've heard for most of Ireland's old lines( and some current)

dowlingm

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Funny enough CIE has a GSM licence on a special frequency called Railway GSM. They could theoretically ( not sure of frequencies and precise standards ) require other alignment users to roam onto this network and issue messages to them on occasion.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM-R

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

I wonder is there anywhere where there is a bit of spur track or something where a "greenway demo" could be built. Make the track look good cosmetically even if it wouldn't hold the weight of an empty wagon and shovel some stones over the rotten sleepers, then build a short length of adequate fencing similar to similar fences in current operational use (not the palisade stuff IE uses at stations but something you can see through) and a greenway track alongside. This could be then used for photomontages - literally a before and after where unremediated track ends and the greenway begins. This could then be accompanied by diagrams showing how wide the greenway could be with a single track, fence and greenway which was both wide enough to use for recreation while respecting IE's structure gauge.

The thing is, if IE handled it right how wouldn't it be handy for them to essentially have a service road running alongside their single track lines? The greenway people could agree that X days per year that IE could use the greenway to access the line and carry out any maintenance easier to do from alongside rather than use a vehicle on the line itself.

Great idea sounds a bit too much like lateral thinking for a state body.

eastwest

dowlingm wrote: »

I wonder is there anywhere where there is a bit of spur track or something where a "greenway demo" could be built. Make the track look good cosmetically even if it wouldn't hold the weight of an empty wagon and shovel some stones over the rotten sleepers, then build a short length of adequate fencing similar to similar fences in current operational use (not the palisade stuff IE uses at stations but something you can see through) and a greenway track alongside. This could be then used for photomontages - literally a before and after where unremediated track ends and the greenway begins. This could then be accompanied by diagrams showing how wide the greenway could be with a single track, fence and greenway which was both wide enough to use for recreation while respecting IE's structure gauge.

The thing is, if IE handled it right how wouldn't it be handy for them to essentially have a service road running alongside their single track lines? The greenway people could agree that X days per year that IE could use the greenway to access the line and carry out any maintenance easier to do from alongside rather than use a vehicle on the line itself.

There are lots of international examples out there already though, so they have these scenarios if they want to use them. CIE could solve the issues with the wrc quite easily if they wanted to. The problem with the wrc is a political one, not an engineering issue. West on track and the ICRC have had the field to themselves for a long time, playing the " only game in town" but that is changing rapidly as it starts to dawn on people that the railway is decades away, or not coming at all.
More public airing of this issue will also giving a slow understanding that a railway on the wrc will have very little impact on tourism in towns like claremorris or Charlestown. What possible benefit is there to these towns in being looked at from a passing train? Tourists would use any such link to get from Galway to Sligo, and would not disembark in their droves in kiltimagh or collooney, that's the reality that the ancient ones won't acknowledge. The bikers and walkers on the other hand cannot whiz by, hidden behind newspapers; they need to eat and sleep and spend money in these communities.
There is a case for the tuam-Galway route as a commuter route, with a cycle trail alongside it, but no realist will ever dream of trains any further north. However it is difficult to see how the dreamers can't be made to understand that a greenway on tuam-collooney line will actually preserve the route for posterity, just in case.

westtip

+1 EastWest. Its like you say we will never convince the dreamers, octogenerian clergy, and guys in their 50s who talk about cattle trains in claremorris when they were boys and thousands of people arriving on the train at Knock Shrine having had a cooked breakfast and mass on the train or equally the droves getting on the train after early mass on a Sunday morning to head for a GAA county match in the afternoon.

Those days are gone, over, done and dusted. Its called meat processing plants and exporting carcasses in trucks with chill facilities, its called the agnostic pluralistic society we live in, its called Sky TV Super Ford Super Sunday. Over over over. Oh and its all called high levels of car ownership. Its also called the changes in the tourism industry - ie activity tourism for baby boomer generation is now one of the fastest growing tourism sectors globally. its called a town like Enniscrone yesterday having hundreds of people run in a 10km sponsored run, its called 80,000 tired hungry users of the great western greenway last year, its called activity tourism for tired hungry tourists. You are dead right the likes of Kiltimagh, Collooney, Coolaney, Tubercurry, Tuam, Charlestown are just waking up to the new opportunity - the real opportunity this line offers to change these towns for ever and for the better. No point convincing the dinosaurs - look what became of them.

corktina

I'd say if the Good People of Tuam were asked if they would like a Train service to Galway City Centre OR improved roads from Tuam to the part of the City where they actually work or study, with adequate parking when they get there, the answer would be very clear.

I think if the same question had been put to Ennis or Gort residents, the answer would have been the same.

foggy_lad

@eastwest there is A case for a Tuam-Galway line if that was a proper commuter route with a decent speed and trains at peak times to cater for the intended commuters but this will never happen because of what went before it where an old line from limerick-Galway was simply refurbished but ended up slower than when it closed years ago!

The cost of commuter lines around such a small area as Tuam is prohibitively expensive and would also only cater for a very small number of people who worked along the railway line near any stations. And all this before the added cost of level crossing eradication to try to speed the train so it can at least compete with the slowest buses in the area.

Madness to even suggest such a line in an area with such low population density. And don't bother comparing to other countries as Ireland whest has its own unique set of circumstances which dictate that this if built will never be a success just like the Limerick to Galway stretch of track.

Sponge Bob

foggy_lad wrote: »

@eastwest there is A case for a Tuam-Galway line if that was a proper commuter route with a decent speed and trains at peak times to cater for the intended commuters but this will never happen because of what went before it where an old line from limerick-Galway was simply refurbished but ended up slower than when it closed years ago!

Well then the business case for a Tuam-Athenry Line will depend to a dramatic extent on speed. If the train can't clatter along at 100kph for long stretches the case will be greatly diminished. I think the business case for this line should be explored and that Greenway interests should eschew consideration of a Tuam - Athenry greenway until it is published.

The line south of Tuam was built by a different company to the one that built the line north of Tuam...and hopefully much higher standards prevailed. It was completed 30 years before the sections north of Claremorris and is shown on the Keith Johnston (of Edinburgh) map of Ireland from c 1860.

The line from Claremorris to Coolooney was built as A Fás Scheme from the 1890s ..in effect.

corktina

what a shame the line from Athenry to Galway wasn't doubled before any of this work. It would have made the north and south lines from there a much more viable project, and would have had benefits for the majority of the passengers in that area, those heading towards Dublin

Sponge Bob

corktina wrote: »

what a shame the line from Athenry to Galway wasn't doubled before any of this work

We covered this in the past. CIE quoted €180m for such a project and it is somewhere in this thread or this other thread.

The document containing this crazy CIE Estimate is here , page 5 from 2008.

http://www.galwaycity.ie/AllServices/CommunityCulture/Publications/FileEnglish,4505,en.pdf

dowlingm

Two dynamic loops at Renmore/GMIT and Oranmore would make a huge difference I think - and a third platform at Galway station which was supposed to be part of the redevelopment which has faded into the distance. It probably suited IE to propose a full double tracking to produce a number to scare off the pols.

As for "well we'd need to hold off Tuam-Athenry" there is a huge line from Claremorris-Collooney that only fantasists will only think will ever reopen - by the time that's done there will be plenty of time to circle back and worry about Claremorris-Tuam-Athenry.

Judgement Day

westtip - do you have a link for the 80,000 users of the Achill/Westport Greenway last year or have you been over indulging in the ginger beer again.

Hungerford

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The line south of Tuam was built by a different company to the one that built the line north of Tuam...and hopefully much higher standards prevailed.

They would have. North of Tuam was built under a Light Railways Act to light railway standards whereas normal rules and regulations guided the construction of the line south of the town.

dowlingm

There is a rail related business in Tuam.

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

westtip - do you have a link for the 80,000 users of the Achill/Westport Greenway last year or have you been over indulging in the ginger beer again.

It wasn't me it was the Irish Times: on Saturday Feb 18th:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/travel/2012/0218/1224311879321.html

read the article but here's the quote about enough people to fill Croke Park:

So, after all this work by the community and Mayo Co Council, Fáilte Ireland and the Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport was it worth it? Hell yes! Up to 80,000 people will use it in its first year, spending around €7 million in the local economy. Already, nearly 47 per cent of businesses indicate that the Greenway has led to increased business and 38 new jobs have been created, with a further 56 existing jobs sustained.

If the latest figures on the Ennis Athenry section are to go by, the Greenway makes a far better cost benefit analysis reading. Costs pennies in real terms, brings in thousands of visitors and indeed locals who get tired and hungry and need food, drink and beds. Certainly more of a nett contributor to the local economies than a subvented empty railway that will cost millions to build, more millions to subvent and as we have long said quite simply is not high on the list of national or even regional priorities.

Judgement Day

westtip - I'm only trying to get a rise out of you but I would dispute the 80,000 figure - it smells like a Failte Ireland/West on Track/Co.Development PR spin and I can smell them ten miles off. You also seem to have great faith in 'the paper of record' which, these days, is about as reliable as the Frontline.

dowlingm

I'm with JD - don't project numbers, count them.

eastwest

Judgement Day wrote: »

westtip - I'm only trying to get a rise out of you but I would dispute the 80,000 figure - it smells like a Failte Ireland/West on Track/Co.Development PR spin and I can smell them ten miles off. You also seem to have great faith in 'the paper of record' which, these days, is about as reliable as the Frontline.

Mayo county council has a number of counters on the route; figures seem accurate.
There is talk in Newport of limiting access to the greenway for sponsored cycles and walks. Typical blinkered thinking; if the demand is there, extend the greenway to cater for it instead of sending customers away.

westtip

Judgement Day wrote: »

westtip - I'm only trying to get a rise out of you but I would dispute the 80,000 figure - it smells like a Failte Ireland/West on Track/Co.Development PR spin and I can smell them ten miles off. You also seem to have great faith in 'the paper of record' which, these days, is about as reliable as the Frontline.

I see your point but as another poster said - they have actually taken the trouble of putting automated body counters in at key points along the route. I am sure the article was well researched and verified. The real proof of the pudding though is in the simple anecdotal evidence people in the area give. The Greenway has completely reinvented tourism in Mulranny, the Mulranny Park hotel was on its uppers until it happened. I happened to sit next to a young fellah from Achill flying out of Knock about two months ago - he worked in a Spar or some 7/11 store near the end of the Greenway on Achill - he said it has put turnover up by about €1,000 a week. Thats hard cash into the local economy. Now we all know about margins on small bottles of water, coke and crisps and chocolate and in store made sandwiches - so the greenway may be sustaining more than one job just in that store. JD These are the more important observations than whether its 50,000 users or 80,000 users no matter what paper it is recorded in.

Do you think a train stopping at Charlestown 4 times a day (and 2 up 2 down will about the sum of the service you would get) will put €1,000 a week into the spar shop on the main street near the old rail station....its not rocket science is it?

eastwest

Today's news regarding the opening-up of the rail business to competition will create a once-off opportunity for groups with expertise in the area of running trains. Will we now see West on Track bidding to run the highly profitable Limerick-Galway service? After all, they have always claimed that the route would be a little goldmine if it was run properly.
Their hour has come!

westtip

eastwest is there a link on that announcement somewhere

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

eastwest is there a link on that announcement somewhere

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/rail-business.html

MayoForSam

eastwest wrote: »

Today's news regarding the opening-up of the rail business to competition will create a once-off opportunity for groups with expertise in the area of running trains. Will we now see West on Track bidding to run the highly profitable Limerick-Galway service? After all, they have always claimed that the route would be a little goldmine if it was run properly.
Their hour has come!

At least it shows Varadkar is considering shaking up the status quo in this country regarding rail travel, it might have side-benefits for any Greenway initiatives.

westtip

MayoForSam wrote: »

At least it shows Varadkar is considering shaking up the status quo in this country regarding rail travel, it might have side-benefits for any Greenway initiatives.

Agreed - I am very hopeful Varadkar is moving in the right direction in his thinking re the WRC northern branch line. It really is only a matter of time I think before he finally gets off the fence on this one.

dowlingm

I think the problem with Varadkar is that a lot of people have made up their mind on him, that he basically is a b@stard offspring of Margaret Thatcher and Michael MacDowell. Hopefully he will surprise us with something really innovative.

Tuam Greenway Project

dowlingm wrote: »

There is a rail related business in Tuam.

Unilock is on the Dunmore Road outside Tuam. Its about 2 miles from the nearest "disused" rail line and it has no connection with the track, future, present or past. Won't stop WOT throwing into mix though.

Tuam Greenway Project

Declan Tierney from The Connaught Tribune has nailed his colours to the mast.
Western Rail Corridor simply isn't coming down the tracks | Connacht Tribune | galwaynews.ie
www.galwaynews.ie

westtip

Well done to the Connaught Tribune at long last one of the regional newspapers has escaped the clutches and claws of West on Track and is finally saying it as it is. His article didn't mention the blindingly obvious solution....to help our tourist industry, and I think we should all know what I mean by now. I will send him a copy of the email sent by Enda to the Sligomayogreenway campaign - he might see what the Enda really thinks. Michael Ring needs to wake up and smell the roses he is still trying to swing both ways - in Mayo saying how marvelous the greenway is and how it should be extended to Castlebar etc and still rather strangely being associated with comments like Athenry - Tuam is about to happen. It isn't and as the article referred to above - it ain't going to happen anytime soon.

So what next folks - on your bikes I say.

Judgement Day

dowlingm wrote: »

I think the problem with Varadkar is that a lot of people have made up their mind on him, that he basically is a b@stard offspring of Margaret Thatcher and Michael MacDowell. Hopefully he will surprise us with something really innovative.

Couldn't have put it better about the smug git but I would probably have been banned. I await proof that he is actually some use but I won't hold my breath.