Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

guinnessdrinker

Hungerford wrote: »

Look how empty the South-East is...

It looks a bit empty alright but looking at the map alone, look inside the large triangle from Derry-Dublin-Sligo, no operational rail line anywhere within that massive area.

Judgement Day

Hungerford - I think you not being drastic enough and the Ballina branch, Mallow/Tralee and the Sligo line north of Mullingar could be added to your list. I remember Jack Higgins, a former GM of CIE, stating back in the early 1980s that the no further amount of closures would have any worthwhile effect on the deficit and would in fact kill the patient.

Pete2k

westtip wrote: »

Not sure where you get this figure from - but I think you do have to assume the stops you mentioned - I guess the branch line from the north doesn't need to have driver turn round time at Athenry when the "corridor" meets the T junction to Galway. Your 35 minutes is probably based on a straight run through and no waits at Athenry for clearance to use the single track line into Galway, which admittedly if this project was going to be done properly should have been double tracked when phase 1 was built - but lets not go there eh!

35mins is the figure that's pretty much been said round ere for quite awhile on how long the trip would take and your right it does assume a straight run thru from Athenry to Galway with no delays. And absolutely I agree that Athenry-Galway should have been doubled tracked as soon as Phase 1 started. However at the very least should phase 2 go ahead then a passing loop at Oranmore is essential.

westtip wrote: »

Point made by others - why spend 60 million in CAPEX on building a rail line for students (all respect to our students), when they have a bus service already and in the hope a "few people" to use your own phrase will start using the train - and why should the Germans money we have to borrow for this project be used to put Burkes buses out of business?!

At the moment Burkes run about 7-8 coaches from Tuam to Galway every morning before 8am (this includes the Milltown & Dunmore ones that also pick people up in Tuam) depending on time of year, college, etc. You also have BE coaches serving the town. Now from my own experience of knowing how many get on/off in Tuam and Eyre Square and adding in those that wont use a bus for the reasons I said in my last post then I could see around 300+/- a few using the trains each morning assuming that you had 2, one leaving round 7.10am, the other at say 8.10am. Factor in other trains during the day and i'd say you'd have an average of around 500 a day using the train each way. Sunday evenings/Monday mornings (count the 2 together for arguments sake) Tuam-Galway and Friday evenings Galway-Tuam daily loadings wouldn't be too far off the 1K mark quite possibly. Burkes wont go out of business but they would defo be downsized.

westtip wrote: »

Others have said it but the evidence across the country and indeed in the UK (compare rail fares with bus fares there) there is no reason to make this assumption - in fact quite the opposite!

Given the short distance between Tuam-Galway I don't think you're looking a very expensive ticket. You're looking at something like Gort-Galway. Then factor in student discounts, tax relief on commuter tickets and you're looking only slightly more expensive than burkes but perhaps 30mins quicker journey time.

westtip wrote: »

Your assumptions I think may be a bit shaky and are not sound enough reasons to borrow another 60 million from the Germans and to increase the national Overdraft further to subvent the line in the future. BTW: Just because some of us argue against the Tuam/Claremorris branchline does not mean to say we are against public transport being improved we just see a different and more cost effective way of doing it.

I'm not disagreeing with this at all, you're right at the moment i don't think the country can really afford it, but if it does go ahead then what i've posted above is what I think the times, loadings, fares etc. will be and I don't think the subvention will be near as much as people on here are guessing it will be.
On an similar note I don't think the country can afford the ARC either. Personally I'd much rather see the existing N17 upgraded to a quality where the entire road is of a similar quality to say the Ballindine-Knock section with Claregalway, Tuam & Milltown bypassed. I just don't think the volume of traffic on the road supports a motorway or dual carraigeway and upgrading the existing road could be done for far less than building an M17.

westtip

Pete2k wrote: »

On an similar note I don't think the country can afford the ARC either. Personally I'd much rather see the existing N17 upgraded to a quality where the entire road is of a similar quality to say the Ballindine-Knock section with Claregalway, Tuam & Milltown bypassed. I just don't think the volume of traffic on the road supports a motorway or dual carraigeway and upgrading the existing road could be done for far less than building an M17.

Thanks for all that local knowledge on the numbers commuting into Galway every morning, frankly they surprised me - I actually agree about the motorway issue for the N17, traffic volumes don't actually justify a motorway and yes bypasses would make a huge difference.

My point is this though - the road upgrade needs to be done first. If the rail line is built to Claremorris with 5 railway crossings on N17 it will add insult to injury for users of the N17, and I don't think for one minute the railway will take a significant portion of cars off the road. The upgrading of the road has to take the five crossings out of the equation. We can't afford the WRC and we can't afford the N17 upgrade and we certainly can't afford the N17 to be made to perform worse due to railway crossings. It's a bit chicken and egg. I certainly don't think road users on the N17 will accept a decision to make the N17 slower in order that a Rail line which it is marginal that we need is built whilst the road is ignored. The road project may well be more expensive but without the road improvements I don't think there can be a rail project due to the problems it will cause on the existing road. It will be interesting to hear what the road using lobby has to say about it.

dowlingm

I can see it now - they drop 60m on Tuam and then start wondering exactly where they can fit another inbound train on a single track line from Athenry-Galway. No doubt the answer will be to rob Athlone of their train! Meanwhile said train will either be positioned from Galway in the early mornings or crews taxied to and from Galway like Rosslare. Then like Limerick-Galway a 27k will be deemed unworthy and yet another 22k robbed to service it, and IE will contrive yet another timetable which fails to provide service to Dublin from an Athenry branch.

Tuam-Galway by road - 34km
Tuam-Galway by rail - 51km. 50% longer...

westtip

It's all got the makings of a dogs breakfast, but there is going to be some elements of change at Athenry either for users from the northern brach line passengers or southern branch line passengers - possibly both of them to pick up trains from Athlone. WOT will then count the passengers coming off this train in Galway and claim they are all "corridor" passengers, conveniently ignoring those who have been travelling on the well established East - West line to Athenry/Athlone.

the branch line "corridor" passengers will get fed up with the service levels stop using it and the branch lines will be closed again.

dowlingm

If IE didn't use split/join between Galway and Athenry, platform space at Galway could also be a problem what with only two platforms being available a.t.m. and little chance of a development led revamp of the station. There could be a commitment to minimising standing on the platform but that would be contingent on crew rest and on track paths so the trains could leave! The alternative would be to simply open up the adjoining shed and place a platform there without revamping the station, but the local pols wouldn't like that much I'd say.

mk6705

Judgement Day wrote: »

Hungerford - I think you not being drastic enough and the Ballina branch, Mallow/Tralee and the Sligo line north of Mullingar could be added to your list. I remember Jack Higgins, a former GM of CIE, stating back in the early 1980s that the no further amount of closures would have any worthwhile effect on the deficit and would in fact kill the patient.

If the Mallow to Tralee line is closed in favor of a line from Galway to Sligo, I'll go and derail that train myself. That won't happen though. It doesn't make sense.

westtip

Adro947 wrote: »

It doesn't make sense.

Ahem - just think about WOT u write! and the organisations involved.

sdanseo

Train from Galway to sligo would be handy. But not at the sacrifice of current routes.

Having a train that goes from Limerick to Galway in nearly twice the time it can be done by road (after M18 is done to Cruaghwell) combined with the pull-in, reverse-out 19th-century arrangement in Athenry make me want to ********** ** ******** ******

corktina

a PROPER service from Limerick to galway would have been welcomed with open arms by the legion of WRC detracters on here....

westtip

sdonn wrote: »

Train from Galway to sligo would be handy. But not at the sacrifice of current routes.

.

Would be handy I've not seen that one before. In the highly unlikely event that this happens, on the current alignment which WOT want to restore the travel time will be about 3 hours from Sligo to Galway! Handy that.

sdanseo

westtip wrote: »

Would be handy I've not seen that one before. In the highly unlikely event that this happens, on the current alignment which WOT want to restore the travel time will be about 3 hours from Sligo to Galway! Handy that.

Hmm, didn't know that although I should have suspected it would be ridiculously time consuming. Stupid, stupid, stupid is all I can say to it really.

rainbowdash

I was just speaking to somebody who got the train up and down from LimerickK to Galway today and they said it was packed both ways.

At this stage the novelty factor is no longer a valid excuse and maybe the detractors should accept that they were at least a bit wrong.

Given that the journey times are not that fast nor is the timetable all that clever its starting to look like the line will be a success despite itself.

Now imagine direct or one change properly timetabled and properly priced trains from Wexford, Kerry and Cork to Galway and Westport / Ballina / Castlebar which would be achieved by fixing Athenry - Claremorris only, a section that was operational not that long ago, what sort of numbers would we be looking at.

foggy_lad

rainbowdash wrote: »

I was just speaking to somebody who got the train up and down from LimerickK to Galway today and they said it was packed both ways.

At this stage the novelty factor is no longer a valid excuse and maybe the detractors should accept that they were at least a bit wrong.

Given that the journey times are not that fast nor is the timetable all that clever its starting to look like the line will be a success despite itself.

Now imagine direct or one change properly timetabled and properly priced trains from Wexford, Kerry and Cork to Galway and Westport / Ballina / Castlebar which would be achieved by fixing Athenry - Claremorris only, a section that was operational not that long ago, what sort of numbers would we be looking at.

did your friend get numbers? packed to many people is half full for a few stops or just a good few on board from limerick to ennis or ennis to limerick!

when irish rail provide good numbers for those making the full journey from galway/athenry to ennis/limerick or back i will beleive the line is a success.

highlydebased

Going to go to Galway on train soon to see for myself how busy it is.

foggy_lad

I really do hope it is as busy as some are saying because god knows this country needs a success story.

Zoney

Well, one thing in its favour is that regardless of the poor journey time, it is a pleasant journey. Whether it is *because* of the slow speed or not, I don't know, but it is a very relaxed and smooth trip and you don't even really realise that you're only on a commuter train (these usually ride dreadfully on the other lines in my experience). Maybe the relay was actually rather good and not having 201s tearing up the track helps?

I've not heard of delays or problems either - so I would imagine anyone who's taken the journey has had a positive experience and is likely to do so again. It is still quite a long and tiresome journey by road, and even though the last piece of motorway will make it quicker, it will still be very monotonous and you'll either be cramped up in a car as a passenger, or else having to do driving as well as take the car journey.

Iarnród Éireann could really do with introducing a midweek return like Bus Éireann though - it is a bit stark of a jump in price between day return (reasonable price) and a return valid for a month (not so reasonable).

The most depressing part of the train journey in my experience was Galway station. What a dump! Limerick by contrast, even though not a lot has been done to it, is just a lot friendlier with being a bit cleaner and having a lot of people in it all the time now (and the new coffee dock is pretty decent, and "Platform 5" is nicer just for not being so deserted).

Judgement Day

I still haven't managed a trip on the line yet; any chance that somebody could post some railcar internal shots i.e. of passengers from one of their trips. Another question - is there a bookstall or refreshment room in Galway still?

Zoney

Judgement Day wrote: »

I still haven't managed a trip on the line yet; any chance that somebody could post some railcar internal shots i.e. of passengers from one of their trips. Another question - is there a bookstall or refreshment room in Galway still?

There's a shop that has a sort-of café/bar stuck behind the shop's refridgerator units...

foggy_lad

galway is a hideous station, most of the space is wasted(nothing new there with irish rail), it would not take much to reorganise and redesign the whole layout of the station maybe just some will and care for their customers!

sleepyman

Zoney wrote: »

Well, one thing in its favour is that regardless of the poor journey time, it is a pleasant journey. Whether it is *because* of the slow speed or not, I don't know, but it is a very relaxed and smooth trip and you don't even really realise that you're only on a commuter train (these usually ride dreadfully on the other lines in my experience). Maybe the relay was actually rather good and not having 201s tearing up the track helps?

I've not heard of delays or problems either - so I would imagine anyone who's taken the journey has had a positive experience and is likely to do so again. It is still quite a long and tiresome journey by road, and even though the last piece of motorway will make it quicker, it will still be very monotonous and you'll either be cramped up in a car as a passenger, or else having to do driving as well as take the car journey.

Iarnród Éireann could really do with introducing a midweek return like Bus Éireann though - it is a bit stark of a jump in price between day return (reasonable price) and a return valid for a month (not so reasonable).

The most depressing part of the train journey in my experience was Galway station. What a dump! Limerick by contrast, even though not a lot has been done to it, is just a lot friendlier with being a bit cleaner and having a lot of people in it all the time now (and the new coffee dock is pretty decent, and "Platform 5" is nicer just for not being so deserted).

Good to hear.Slighty off-topic but what became of the proposed redevelopment of the bus/train station in Limerick?I know money is tight but the outside area where the buses stop is a dump.Even if they just put down new bus shelters and some tarmac it would look so much better.

dowlingm

foggy lad - the same thing will happen in Galway as in Cork - a massive redevelopment is planned but never happens. In the meantime small but effective changes are proposed but are fobbed off because "it would be a waste what with the redevelopment and all..."

foggy_lad

dowlingm wrote: »

foggy lad - the same thing will happen in Galway as in Cork - a massive redevelopment is planned but never happens. In the meantime small but effective changes are proposed but are fobbed off because "it would be a waste what with the redevelopment and all..."

in laypersons terms they promise to do something but in reality the promise actually gives them the excuse to do nothing!

dynamick

Enda Kenny will consider extending the WRC to Donegal:

Sometimes, Kenny will tell people whatever they want to hear. Earlier, he told another questioner that, yes, he would consider extending the Western Rail Corridor to Donegal - an idea that makes as much sense as extending the Dart to Dingle.

http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/kenny-talks-the-talk-but-fg-fluffs-it-at-the-14th-50692.html

L1011

dynamick wrote: »

Enda Kenny will consider extending the WRC to Donegal:

http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/kenny-talks-the-talk-but-fg-fluffs-it-at-the-14th-50692.html

Ah sure, we don't want the WRC extended, we want the entire CDRJC system reopened... the bustling metropolises of Glenties and Killygordon are screaming out for a slower-than-road form of transport.






makes about as much sense as most of WOTs stuff!

Judgement Day

It will have to be mixed gauge so as the FART project at Fintown is already extending towards Glenties.

http://www.antraen.com



They even have some trams for sale. Would these be any use for Mr.Guckian's Gluas project?

Judgement Day

So the 2nd phase of the WRC is binned along with the Pace/Navan extension - what a surprise. Good old Greens. :rolleyes:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-unveils-39bn-capital-investment-programme-466856.html

26/07/2010 - 12:29:16

The Government has rescheduled major parts of its decentralisation programme, and shelved two large rail projects as part of its revised capital investment plan unveiled by Taoiseach Brian Cowen this afternoon.

Under the programme, €39bn will be spent over the next five years, with a shift away from spending on roads in favour of public transport, and a considerable investment in water infrastructure, and school building.

The plan will fund the move by Dublin Institute of Technology to a new site at Grangegorman and will also allow for the construction of Metro North in Dublin.

However, the Dublin to Navan rail line and the Tuam to Claremorris line have been postponed and there will be no new investment in the Luas.

Plans to move the Department of Education to Mullingar and the Department of Enterprise to Carlow will not now proceed.

The Government estimates that 30,000 jobs will be supported by the programme.

Read more: http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/government-unveils-39bn-capital-investment-programme-466856.html#ixzz0un2Cgb1O

westtip

JD not seen the official press release yet but are they really saying Tuam/Athenry is actually still on the agenda?

Judgement Day

westtip wrote: »

JD not seen the official press release yet but are they really saying Tuam/Athenry is actually still on the agenda?

Don't think north of Athenry is happening at all - time for you to break out the bike and the ginger beer.