Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

end of the road

the other phazes weren't going to open once phaze one was seen to be unsuccessful, motor way or not. anyway i'd suspect if it did reopen something more worth while would be closed to pay for it most likely

corktina

I agree. There is some virtue in having the Limerick to Galway link, but I can't see any virtue in any of the rest of the line.

eastwest

corktina wrote: »

I agree. There is some virtue in having the Limerick to Galway link, but I can't see any virtue in any of the rest of the line.

Even Limerick-Galway is dodgy, the motorway will kill it off completely I reckon. I'd imagine the bus operators will be running very competitive services on the route once the motorway is finished; the railway won't be able to touch them on either price or speed.
It's kind of ironic that the greenway campaigners north of Athenry have been (rightly) making the case for a greenway to keep the route in public ownership on the disused stretch, when in fact the white-elephant railway may actually achieve the opposite -- keeping the Ennis-Athenry route in public ownership for a greenway from Sligo to Ennis!

westtip

corktina wrote: »

xmas present for Brendan

It was good for the Minister to say it as it is, but the real issue now is getting off the pot and backing it with a plan to create a greenway from Sligo to Athenry that will connect with the Great Western Greenway in county Mayo and with the Dublin Galway greenway at the southern end. This will create a continuous cycling and walking trail from Dublin to Sligo; Dublin to Achill and Dublin to Clifden. It will transform cycling tourism in Ireland when it happens.

dowlingm

http://midwest.radica.com/talk/mwrtalk.mp3
1h26m in
Inda says WoT dream not going to happen "in the foreseeable future"
(Note this show seems to be updated daily so may not be there tomorrow (Tuesday)

westtip

dowlingm wrote: »

http://midwest.radica.com/talk/mwrtalk.mp3
1h26m in
Inda says WoT dream not going to happen "in the foreseeable future"
(Note this show seems to be updated daily so may not be there tomorrow (Tuesday)

Thanks yes indeed. Game over. Here is the passage posted up on You tube with a wee slide show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv0EGFjxK0&feature=youtu.be

mayo.mick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv0EGFjxK0

Grandeeod

Clear as crystal and about time too.

100 million already spent on a disaster. Just think what that would have done for the existing network if the usual parish pump politics didn't apply. The WRC will (for many many years) be held up as an example of why we shouldn't reopen lines. Just as others predicted over 10 years ago.

corktina

it would have gone a long way towards upgrading the lines that do have a chance of competing with the Motorways.

what_traffic

You would get 100's of km of a Greenway network all over the country for 100 million

westtip

corktina wrote: »

it would have gone a long way towards upgrading the lines that do have a chance of competing with the Motorways.

Exactly - what would have served rail travel best in the west is a high speed link between Dublin and Galway, and even further improvements on Sligo Dublin. Dare I say it as an advocate of greenways on old railways to have re-opened the Athlone Mullingar rail route to give a direct train to Connolly from the west. Plus all the issue of double tracking from Athlone to Galway. Long distance rail travel in Ireland is about getting up and down to Dublin as fast as possible. What West on Track failed at miserably over the years is in grasping this reality. There is no interest in passenger services between regional towns/cities - we simply don't have the capacity or demand for such services. Competing with the M6 coach service must be a nightmare for Irish Rail, on both time and cost. If Irish Rail could offer a 90 minute service that went Galway - Athlone - Dublin, and I mean one stop at Athlone and get you from Eyre Square to the IFSC in 90 minutes they might have had a chance. Instead a railway that takes two hours from Limerick to Galway was given precedence. Hindsight is a great thing - but do you know what some of us on boards were saying this the best part of ten years ago. Funny old thing life.

corktina

I used to drive up and down that road paralell to the moribund rail line regualrly and with my Trainspotter Head on I used to think it would be great to re-open it. This Forum changed my opinion totally.

Rural rail is not necessary, all resources should be transferred to Inter City from Dubln to the main centres (which urgently needs upgrading to minimum line speed of 100mph) and commuter services which need expanding and developing.

cgcsb

How much double tracking could be done for 100mil? We'd at least get between Portarlington and Athlone and some on the Sligo route to boot. Facilitating a 2 hour or less connection between Galway and Dublin does a lot more for the west's economy than a 2 hour or less connection to Limerick. The double tracking would even allow for an early morning express train (like we were supposed to have on the Cork line before the trouble with NBRU) for business passengers.

cgcsb

corktina wrote: »

I used to drive up and down that road paralell to the moribund rail line regualrly and with my Trainspotter Head on I used to think it would be great to re-open it. This Forum changed my opinion totally.

Rural rail is not necessary, all resources should be transferred to Inter City from Dubln to the main centres (which urgently needs upgrading to minimum line speed of 100mph) and commuter services which need expanding and developing.

I disagree up to a point. There is a case for connecting the regional cities by rail, in the future perhaps when they reach a certain size. But the rail connections should be built properly and be designed with a journey time FASTER than road in mind. It does no good to reopen victorian era railways that cannot physically compete in the modern world.

deisegreenway

what_traffic wrote: »

You would get 100's of km of a Greenway network all over the country for 100 million

It's sad to say that almost every greenway project currently at planning stage would've been done to a very high standard for this 100 million.

Credit to those who have helped get across the point that unfortunately the golden era of the railways are behind us and it'll be miracle if all lines currently open are kept open...

mayo.mick

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gfv0EGFjxK0

.

Grandeeod

deisegreenway wrote: »

It's sad to say that almost every greenway project currently at planning stage would've been done to a very high standard for this 100 million.

Credit to those who have helped get across the point that unfortunately the golden era of the railways are behind us and it'll be miracle if all lines currently open are kept open...

Nothing against greenways, but the 100 odd million spent on reopening part of the WRC would have been better spent on the existing rail network. That said, the way is now clear to build a greenway along the WRC and I hope it happens.

end of the road

deisegreenway wrote: »

it'll be miracle if all lines currently open are kept open...

well certainly if a certain type of politics is anything to go by, mind you nothing drastic has been done yet so lets hope we get through. also, the company running it needs to stop making excuses and take action. start with the small things until funding can be got to improve the infrastructure.

MayoForSam

Great news and it's not often you hear Enda coming out with such an almost definitive statement on any issue. Surely WOT have to wake up now and smell the coffee? The best they can hope for now is a properly developed greenway along the old track which will have plenty of train memorabilia along the way to satisfy everyone.

Hopefully, some momentum will develop now to begin investing in a Sligo-Athenry greenway - perhaps if Aer Lingus was to get sold some of that money could be put back into tourism infrastructure? It could be a vote-getter in the west if a good business case is presented to the public. I won't be holding my breath though.

Geuze

I am a supporter of public transport, and large subsidies towards it.

But even I admit that the Claremorris - Collooney section will never reopen.

So turn it into a greenway, yes, while preserving the possibility of a future railway line.


Now, about the line from Claremorris south, I would not turn that into a greenway.



One reason the Ennis-Galway section isn't that successful is due to bus competition.

German / French / UK railways are often more successful as they don't have a sister bus company competing against them.

Geuze

westtip wrote: »

Exactly - what would have served rail travel best in the west is a high speed link between Dublin and Galway, and even further improvements on Sligo Dublin. Dare I say it as an advocate of greenways on old railways to have re-opened the Athlone Mullingar rail route to give a direct train to Connolly from the west. Plus all the issue of double tracking from Athlone to Galway. Long distance rail travel in Ireland is about getting up and down to Dublin as fast as possible. What West on Track failed at miserably over the years is in grasping this reality. There is no interest in passenger services between regional towns/cities - we simply don't have the capacity or demand for such services. Competing with the M6 coach service must be a nightmare for Irish Rail, on both time and cost. If Irish Rail could offer a 90 minute service that went Galway - Athlone - Dublin, and I mean one stop at Athlone and get you from Eyre Square to the IFSC in 90 minutes they might have had a chance. Instead a railway that takes two hours from Limerick to Galway was given precedence. Hindsight is a great thing - but do you know what some of us on boards were saying this the best part of ten years ago. Funny old thing life.

I agree with much of this.

Heuston to Galway in 90mins - 2hrs max.

Double-track from Galway to Athenry.

Double track from Portarlington to Athlone.

corktina

Geuze wrote: »

I am a supporter of public transport, and large subsidies towards it.

But even I admit that the Claremorris - Collooney section will never reopen.

So turn it into a greenway, yes, while preserving the possibility of a future railway line.


Now, about the line from Claremorris south, I would not turn that into a greenway.



One reason the Ennis-Galway section isn't that successful is due to bus competition.

German / French / UK railways are often more successful as they don't have a sister bus company competing against them.

the foreign railways are successful because they invested to make sure they were much quicker than the coaches. In the UK, 125 mph trains 40 years ago....we can't even manage 100 on almost all our network

end of the road

Geuze wrote: »

One reason the Ennis-Galway section isn't that successful is due to bus competition.

i'd say more the fact its slow, mostly the stock used is of the suburban style type which is uncomfortable and noisy, + the price is rather expensive. personally i'm of the belief that busses have a particular market, such a market would never use rail no matter what. i think car is the preferred method for road transport over a bus. but admittidly thats from experience of my friends.

westtip

Geuze wrote: »

Now, about the line from Claremorris south, I would not turn that into a greenway.

.

I think that decision has already been made, so whether you want it turned into a greenway is neither here nor there. The Minister for Transport does and judging by the comments by Enda Kenny I think he wouldn't stand in its way. Its a bit late to be going over all the arguments again, I suggest you write a strongly worded letter to the Minister. He will tell you its not going to happen.

westtip

cgcsb wrote: »

It does no good to reopen victorian era railways that cannot physically compete in the modern world.

Indeed what has been said for the last ten years. All the time WOT campaigned to re-open a piece of crap, and that is what they got. There were sold a sop. We knew it at the time. So there you go, its been a long time coming but at last we can now look forward to some action and development of the line for something useful for society.

cgcsb

westtip wrote: »

Indeed what has been said for the last ten years. All the time WOT campaigned to re-open a piece of crap, and that is what they got. There were sold a sop. We knew it at the time. So there you go, its been a long time coming but at last we can now look forward to some action and development of the line for something useful for society.

Agreed they could've campaigned for a new high spec railway with a design journey time of little over an hour ensuring long term dominance over road based options.

Markcheese

cgcsb wrote: »

Agreed they could've campaigned for a new high spec railway with a design journey time of little over an hour ensuring long term dominance over road based options.

How much would all of that cost relative to the number of people who want to use public transport between 2 small regional cities- could be losing a stack more per passenger than now-

Geuze

I travel on the N17 weekly.

The volumes of traffic south of Tuam leads me to believe a Tuam-Galway service could be viable.

corktina

Geuze wrote: »

I travel on the N17 weekly.

The volumes of traffic south of Tuam leads me to believe a Tuam-Galway service could be viable.

but you forget they are building a Motorway..... it' a non starter.

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

but you forget they are building a Motorway..... it' a non starter.

how is it. many of our lines have motor ways. motor ways should have no place deciding whether a line should be opened or not. build it properly, put a toal on the motor way, and then lets see