Western Rail Corridor (all disused sections)

westtip

corktina wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-28955045

COastal path makes £16 million pa in Wales

Yes it's amazing and yet we still have some politicians against the greenway on the western rail corridor. it never ceases to astonish me and others they cling to this idea of the railway coming back when a cash cow stares them in the face.

eastwest

corktina wrote: »

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-28955045

COastal path makes £16 million pa in Wales

Ah but wouldn't a train be better?
Just imagine, the 'welsh western arc rail corridor coastal railway not path' (wwarccrnp for short).

Markcheese

westtip wrote: »

Yes it's amazing and yet we still have some politicians against the greenway on the western rail corridor. it never ceases to astonish me and others they cling to this idea of the railway coming back when a cash cow stares them in the face.

Ah here now, careful now, down with that sort of thing ... Let's form an expert group to commission a report ..

Irish Steve

Just as long as the "expert group" looks very carefully at the success that is the Welsh Highland Railway, which was relaid not that long ago, from nothing, and is now bringing in serious tourism revenue to that part of the world.

OK, that's narrow gauge, rather than standard, but it works, it's reliable, and it provides a service to people that need it. Perhaps if we had some more forward thinking people around, rather than the luddites that seem to to incapable of sensible thought and actions, things might be better.

If nothing else, I suspect that there's a significant quantity of ex Bord Na Mona tracks that could be relaid in more useful places at relatively low cost, which could provide some useful tourism income in the right places. It would be very easy to put narrow gauge tracks on to an "old" standard gauge route, with passing loops without any problems, and properly promoted, there would be benefits to tourism and local economies.

westtip

Irish Steve wrote: »

Just as long as the "expert group" looks very carefully at the success that is the Welsh Highland Railway, which was relaid not that long ago, from nothing, and is now bringing in serious tourism revenue to that part of the world. .

Indeed a good idea now lets ask West on Track to commit to what WHR have done http://www.whrsoc.org.uk/ A total voluntary organisation that has restored a 40 miles of narrow gauge railway and several steam locos; it truly is an admirable and gallant effort by steam enthusiasts. It is not part of the national rail network and does not receive national rail subventions. There are no indications that the will to do a similar project on the WRC exists, or at least no one has suggested it. I doubt the will exists in Government to fund a steam railway theme park along 40 miles of the WRC but I guess someone might ask.

Markcheese

Irish Steve wrote: »

Just as long as the "expert group" looks very carefully at the success that is the Welsh Highland Railway, which was relaid not that long ago, from nothing, and is now bringing in serious tourism revenue to that part of the world.

OK, that's narrow gauge, rather than standard, but it works, it's reliable, and it provides a service to people that need it.
Perhaps if we had some more forward
thinking people around, rather than the
luddites that seem to to incapable of
sensible thought and actions, things
might be better.

If nothing else, I suspect that there's a significant quantity of ex Bord Na Mona tracks that could be relaid in more useful places at relatively low cost, which could provide some useful tourism income in the right places. It would be very easy to put narrow gauge tracks on to an "old" standard gauge route, with passing loops without any problems, and properly promoted, there would be
benefits to tourism and local economies.

Isn't part of the problem that it was always light rail, with a rather convtorted alignment, and anyway that alignment has been encroached on in so many
places as to make it extraordinarily expensive to put a even a slow traveling tourist train service on , and there's very little money washing around so ...
One of the arguments I've heard against a greenway is that the area isn't scenic or touristy enough for one ... Now if the area isnt scenic enough to warant the investment in a footpathI why would you spend big on a tourist/heritage rail line...

corktina

Irish Steve wrote: »

Just as long as the "expert group" looks very carefully at the success that is the Welsh Highland Railway, which was relaid not that long ago, from nothing, and is now bringing in serious tourism revenue to that part of the world.

OK, that's narrow gauge, rather than standard, but it works, it's reliable, and it provides a service to people that need it. Perhaps if we had some more forward thinking people around, rather than the luddites that seem to to incapable of sensible thought and actions, things might be better.

If nothing else, I suspect that there's a significant quantity of ex Bord Na Mona tracks that could be relaid in more useful places at relatively low cost, which could provide some useful tourism income in the right places. It would be very easy to put narrow gauge tracks on to an "old" standard gauge route, with passing loops without any problems, and properly promoted, there would be benefits to tourism and local economies.

In fairness there was already mega tourism in the area, it's a National Park and there are loads of little railways who all promote each other. There also is a massive enthusiast base in the UK which is not the case here

westtip

corktina wrote: »

In fairness there was already mega tourism in the area, it's a National Park and there are loads of little railways who all promote each other. There also is a massive enthusiast base in the UK which is not the case here

Not to mention a domestic tourist market of 60 million people.

corktina

I wonder what percentage of Republic Residents have visited Downpatrick or Cultra , very very low I'd guess.(or NI residents for that matter (school tours not included)

end of the road

corktina wrote: »

I wonder what percentage of Republic Residents have visited Downpatrick or Cultra , very very low I'd guess.(or NI residents for that matter (school tours not included)

don't know. they are on the list of places i must visit list though. to see all those "lovely girls" sorry railway vehicles

corktina

well worth it and they all have lovely bottoms, sorry buffers

Markcheese

corktina wrote: »

well worth it and they all have lovely bottoms, sorry buffers

Ah here... Careful now,

Markcheese

Seriously though, if anybody/anygroup could get it together enough to open 40/ 50 kms of track and run a viable steam/heritage service on it , they'd get some degree of government support ... But where you'd find all the active volunteers to set up/build/and run such a service... Let alone the paying customers to fund it .
Also I'm sure there are disused IE lines or trackbeds else where in the country that'd be more suited to such a project (condition/location/population) but to be fair it's often about key people and their determination....

westtip

Markcheese wrote: »

Seriously though, if anybody/anygroup could get it together enough to open 40/ 50 kms of track and run a viable steam/heritage service on it , they'd get some degree of government support ... But where you'd find all the active volunteers to set up/build/and run such a service... Let alone the paying customers to fund it .
Also I'm sure there are disused IE lines or trackbeds else where in the country that'd be more suited to such a project (condition/location/population) but to be fair it's often about key people and their determination....

I reckon the line from Ennis to Athenry should be given to the steamies, it would make a great tourist attraction and get the WRC monkey off Irish Rails/Governments back. There will be no backing to re-open any part of the WRC as a heritage line, or as any kind of railway come to think of it, although there is a mad cap scheme in Kiltimagh to re-open part of the line as a Velo-rail facility - all pie in the sky and a smokescreen to stop the greenway.

corktina

Not the WRC but Nenagh or Carrick or even Rosslare might make sense. They'd need a lot of support both from volunteers and in cash plus they would almost certainly need the support of the RPSI and ITG (and both of them are UK organisations of course)

I'd love to see it but I'm not holding my breath for the reasons Markcheese gives.

eastwest

westtip wrote: »

I reckon the line from Ennis to Athenry should be given to the steamies, it would make a great tourist attraction and get the WRC monkey off Irish Rails/Governments back. There will be no backing to re-open any part of the WRC as a heritage line, or as any kind of railway come to think of it, although there is a mad cap scheme in Kiltimagh to re-open part of the line as a Velo-rail facility - all pie in the sky and a smokescreen to stop the greenway.

The steamies could probably dovetail into the existing schedule, or take it over at weekends when the thousands of commuters are on a couple of days off.

foggy_lad

eastwest wrote: »

The steamies could probably dovetail into the existing schedule, or take it over at weekends when the thousands of commuters are on a couple of days off.

not reliable enough to be operating scheduled services?

eastwest

foggy_lad wrote: »

not reliable enough to be operating scheduled services?

Not a bad idea, when you think about it. They could double passenger numbers, say from six to twelve.

westtip

eastwest wrote: »

Not a bad idea, when you think about it. They could double passenger numbers, say from six to twelve.

sure once we get a few winter deluges, (it does rain a lot in the west of Ireland in the winter) and the line floods as per usual and closes for a month or two just after Christmas, the double handful of commuters using the line will be back on the door to door mini-bus service.

westtip

well hello boardies its been a while and things are hotting up in the west. The winter rain is coming so expect closures on the WRC anytime soon, in the meantime the old greenway/railway debate goes on and it seems like the greenies are winning the hearts and minds of our western councillors, With Sligo coco passing a motion in favour of a greenway in July and now the BMW Assembly members having the audacity to question a report published on outdoor recreation in the west that flatly refused to accept the idea of a greenway on the route to protect it in public ownership. just have a look at the scoop the Roscommon Herald got by having a journalist at the BMW Assembly meeting last Friday! One councillor even described the WRC as not fit for Thomas the Tank Engine! Take a look at the attached. Hilarious stuff!
Or even better go read what is being said on the SMG FB page

https://www.facebook.com/sligomayogreenway

mayo.mick

There is an interesting article in last Sunday's Business Post about Irish Rail needing €100M more from the government for them to survive. Lost €78M last year. Saying that the rail infrastructure is going to decrease. The article is behind a paywall on their website so I cant post in full, (haven't time to type out I'm afraid)

end of the road

yeah, and its a case of here we go again. should it decrease any more they will still need the same amount to survive as they just refuse to grow their business. decreasing the rail network seems to be the answer for every problem to do with CIE but when its done nothing happens in return apart from people looking for more. when will enough be enough? when the last bit of track is ripped up? sorry, back to the WRC now

mayo.mick

BoatMad

i wouldn't give IR another penny, it has destroyed the rail network, its plays trains not running a railway. privatise it , take the track into a public company, anything has to be better then this mess

end of the road

BoatMad wrote: »

i wouldn't give IR another penny, it has destroyed the rail network, its plays trains not running a railway. privatise it , take the track into a public company, anything has to be better then this mess

yeah. privatise it. that solves everything in the world. i'd be the first to agree IR is a joke but lets be realistic. what private company is going to come in and run a mostly loss making network? and who is going to pay for it? the government? they only pay enough to keep the lights running and they do it begrudgingly. fund it properly and bring in management who actually want to improve the rail network and then we will have a chance of improving things. it won't be done by privatizing it for the sake of privatizing it, a strategy that should be left in the past

westtip

Re what remains of the WRC north of Athenry, this kind of article just keeps spelling it out. There is no money from central government ever coming in for the WRC, nor from Europe and as IR is totally reliant on subvention and government/EU funding for any capital project, you have to accept facts, the WRC is not going to be re-opened..... so lets get on with the alternative use.

BoatMad

end of the road wrote: »

yeah. privatise it. that solves everything in the world. i'd be the first to agree IR is a joke but lets be realistic. what private company is going to come in and run a mostly loss making network? and who is going to pay for it? the government? they only pay enough to keep the lights running and they do it begrudgingly. fund it properly and bring in management who actually want to improve the rail network and then we will have a chance of improving things. it won't be done by privatizing it for the sake of privatizing it, a strategy that should be left in the past

Personally, and Im a rail fan, the network, the operator and the mentality has deteriorated to a point where the whole Intercity rail network might as well be shut down. It will continue to increase its rate of losses, as its always done, but now the network is on its knees and lobbing more bits off it will just kill it, probably better to shut it all down and we can sing railway songs in the pub.

The passengers levels outside commuter rail in Dub, could be transferred to the motorway network, without causing a single blip.

end of the road

BoatMad wrote: »

Personally, and Im a rail fan, the network, the operator and the mentality has deteriorated to a point where the whole Intercity rail network might as well be shut down.

shutting it is the easy option and would play into the hands of the road lobbiests, and other anti rail types who seek its destruction. so that is not an option.

BoatMad wrote: »

It will continue to increase its rate of losses, as its always done, but now the network is on its knees and lobbing more bits off it will just kill it, probably better to shut it all down and we can sing railway songs in the pub.

or, bring in people who actually give a dam, fund it properly, and bother to save it. find ways of encouraging people to use it, toles along roads near it if needs be i don't care how. they're is a place for both and we have a good network which can survive with those who give a dam in charge, and not those waiting out until their retirement. we can still sing songs about it down the pub though

BoatMad wrote: »

The passengers levels outside commuter rail in Dub, could be transferred to the motorway network, without causing a single blip.

the vast majority of the network gets good usership dispite irish rail. so the usership couldn't be transferred to the motor way with only a blip. it would be a blob.

westtip

Press release From: Sligo Mayo Greenway campaign
Date: December 20th 2014: FOR IMMEDIATE USE
• Minister gives clear statement on future of Western Rail Corridor.

• Department favours greenway option to protect the route.

Transport Minister Paschal Donohoe has made it clear the Western Rail Corridor will not be extended.

In recent correspondence with Brendan Quinn of the Sligo-Mayo Greenway Campaign, Minister Donohoe said there are no plans to extend the railway along the disused alignment. The first phase of the route, from Ennis to Athenry, was completed in 2010, but has proved unsuccessful, attracting insufficient passenger numbers and suffers heavy losses, requiring significant annual subvention to cover operating costs. Pro-rail campaigners had hoped that the next section from Athenry to Tuam might be reopened in the near future, although most observers accept that the planned motorway link between Gort and Tuam has made this highly unlikely.

Minister Donohoe has now come down firmly on the side of the pro-tourism lobby, stating “that it is the Department's view that the construction of a greenway along the route of the disused rail line will protect the integrity of the line in the event of any possible future reopening as an operational line.”

Commenting on the Minister's email received on December 17th Brendan Quinn said today that “this statement brings clarity to the situation concerning the future of the route. Two successive Ministers of Transport have told us there are no plans to re-open this railway north of Athenry and the route must be protected”

He went on to say "We now call on all councillors in Mayo, and Galway to follow the lead of Sligo County Council and develop plans for a greenway on the disused railway route. This project will create immediate jobs and opportunities in the region, and will protect the route for future generations. It is clear from the Minister's comments that a greenway project would find favour with the Department, and that councils would be pushing an open door with regards to funding. There are two viable options here; protect the asset with a greenway, or dream of a train that isn't coming.'

ENDS
Copy of Paschal Donohue email received on December 17th below.
Words: body content 320
Contacts: Find us on Facebook: sligomayogreenwaycampaig
 
From: Minister@dttas.ie Sent: Wed 17/12/2014 16:25
To brenquinn@eircom.net
Dear Brendan
I would like to re-confirm my Department's position that there are currently no plans to extend the Western Railway Corridor.
Furthermore, I would like to reiterate that it is the Department's view that the construction of a greenway along the route of the disused rail line will protect the integrity of the line in the event of any possible future reopening of as an operational line.
With best wishes,



Paschal Donohoe T.D.
Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport

corktina

xmas present for Brendan