Composting toilets

InTheTrees

Anyone have any experience with them?

We're planning an off the grid cabin in connemara where a septic tank isnt an option and we dont want to deal with those chemical loos.

quentingargan

We use a Separett toilet which works fine, but off-grid, the problem is that it has a small fan running 24/7.

Our own house is off-grid, and for that reason, we don't use the fan in it, but we extract from ours into a HRV which is running 24/7 anyhow. If you have a wind turbine and have a reasonable amount of power that would work.

However, it seems you would be better looking at designs that passively ventilat satisfactorily. If the house is on the side of a slope, you may be able to work a two-chamber drop toilet, but on a bungalow on level ground, your options are very restricted.

Q

auerillo

InTheTrees wrote: »

Anyone have any experience with them?

We're planning an off the grid cabin in connemara where a septic tank isnt an option and we dont want to deal with those chemical loos.

I know this might not seem helpful , but having spend some time in remote Africa over the years, the solution there is to buy a shovel and keep it handy!

InTheTrees

quentingargan wrote: »

We use a Separett toilet which works fine, but off-grid, the problem is that it has a small fan running 24/7.

Our own house is off-grid, and for that reason, we don't use the fan in it, but we extract from ours into a HRV which is running 24/7 anyhow. If you have a wind turbine and have a reasonable amount of power that would work.

However, it seems you would be better looking at designs that passively ventilat satisfactorily. If the house is on the side of a slope, you may be able to work a two-chamber drop toilet, but on a bungalow on level ground, your options are very restricted.

Q

Excellent information, thank you. Separett looks good. How is it to use? I'm curious about the lack of water?

How do you deal with grey water?

We're at the very beginning stage of planning right now. We're going to have a preliminary meeting with galway county council early next year to see whats possible, but we're fantasising at the moment about putting two or three cabins together.

InTheTrees

auerillo wrote: »

I know this might not seem helpful , but having spend some time in remote Africa over the years, the solution there is to buy a shovel and keep it handy!

Ah well you were lucky to be beyond the reach of county galway planning regulations but I expect its only a matter of time before they extend their net into Africa!

Sam Kade

InTheTrees wrote: »

Ah well you were lucky to be beyond the reach of county galway planning regulations but I expect its only a matter of time before they extend their net into Africa!

Gormley will have us all sh1tting by the ditch again with his licence to sh1t policy.

quentingargan

Sam Kade wrote: »

Gormley will have us all sh1tting by the ditch again with his licence to sh1t policy.

Hey, there's no need for this. Do we really believe that septic tanks should be completely uncontrolled? I know that custom and practice on many one-off houses is to suck the tank into the slurry spreader and spray it on the fields. I'm quite happy to see regulation in this area.

There is someone I know who got planning for a house with a compost toilet instead of a septic tank. You (quite rightly) need to be able to demonstrate that the process poses no risk to human health or the environment.

Human manure carries more bacteria that has potential to be pathogenic to humans than other manure, and for your own sake, and that of your neighbours, your composting system must break this down before it can enter the water table.

In response to In The Trees question about grey water, urine on the other hand is quite harmless. Indeed there are some books that claim drinking it to be therapeutic - not for the feint hearted, but at least non-toxic. The Separett separates urine from fecal material and this can either be piped to a container for collection (it is quite a good fertiliser starter) or can be sent to a soak-away.

If you pm me I can give you contact details for the people we bought ours from - they may have documents to help you with planning - or I could give you contact details for someone who got past the west-Cork planners with a compost toilet that works without a fan.

Q

InTheTrees

Yes, i'd be really interested in more details.

I expect west cork planning regs are as though as connemara.

And actually by gray water I meant waste water from washing etc? Soap contaminated for instance?

quentingargan

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yes, i'd be really interested in more details.

I expect west cork planning regs are as though as connemara.

And actually by gray water I meant waste water from washing etc? Soap contaminated for instance?

The other house which got planning for a house with a compost toilet had a reed bed for the grey water. (As it happens we already had a septic tank on-site). I guess a reed-bed would be the way forward on that. FH Wetland might be able to help you there.

Have PMd other details as not sure how public they are. Q

Jim Martin

Isn't a reed bed better anyway as it created a new habitat for biodiversty?

whatisayis

Here is a link to a website for composting toilets who deliver to Ireland:

http://envirolet-europe.com/

lucky46

Our site is not suitable for todays regulations for a new septic tank and we are looking into composting toilets etc.
County Kerry seems to be very old-fashioned in that respect. Would it be possible for me to please get the planning number of the Cork crowd so for me to use in the attempt to convince my county?
It shouldn't make any difference of course where in Ireland you live and regulations should be similar all over I think it does differ per county.
Thanks in advance.

InTheTrees

lucky46 wrote: »

It shouldn't make any difference of course where in Ireland you live and regulations should be similar all over I think it does differ per county.

I agree.

National regs overseen by individual counties?

whatisayis

I would check the EU regulations and if the system you are planning is in compliance for your environment (e.g. soil type etc.) I doubt if any county council could reject your application.

Ireland have already been fined by the EU for the use of inadequate environmental impact assessments and are currently in trouble under the water quality directives. If you submit an application and quote the relevant EU Directive, they will find it very difficult to find a valid excuse to deny your application.

InTheTrees

whatisayis wrote: »

If you submit an application and quote the relevant EU Directive, they will find it very difficult to find a valid excuse to deny your application.

Interesting.

Mozart1986

InTheTrees wrote: »

I agree.

National regs overseen by individual counties?

There could be regional issues you're not accounting for. Its not good to centralise these regulatory bodies. Councils are responsible for planning, quite rightly so.

lucky46

I am definitely going to look into the EU-regulations.
As for the regional issues, of course it is not good to centralise these regulatory bodies but surely there can be national rules to be adhered to by the councils? And maybe there can be precedents made by other county councils that can be used by let's say people who live in 'unprecedented' counties?

RogersDamien

Here is a list of waterless toilets providers on BigGreenDirectory.ie

lucky46

I have been researching a bit. Composting toilets are being used all over the world. What's good enough for them is good enough for us I gather...
Very interesting links in Germany....
http://www.berger-biotechnik.com
http://www.gtz.de/en/dokumente/gtz2009-en-technology-review-urine-diversion.pdf
And found this:
http://www.susana.org
Technical drawings:
http://www.susana.org/lang-en/cap-dev/visual-aids-drawings/technical-drawings
Groundwater protection:
http://www.susana.org/images/documents/05-working-groups/wg03/own-documents/complete-factsheet-wg03-gw-final-web.pdf
And not to forget!
http://www.susana.org/lang-en/news/news-events/104-events/294-join-the-worlds-longest-toilet-queue-on-world-water-day-2009
Hope it's useful for the interested.

mchammer

InTheTrees wrote: »

Yes, i'd be really interested in more details.

I expect west cork planning regs are as though as connemara.

And actually by gray water I meant waste water from washing etc? Soap contaminated for instance?

Hi there,
just wondering if you got planning for your off grid cabin and did it include a composting toilet - am presently investigating the potential of a similar project.

Many Thanks
MC

Shewhomustbe...

Hi,

Does any one know if you need (planning) permission to retro-fit these toilets? I really like the idea of changing to them. I currently fill my cisterns with rain water, but don't fancy spending forever doing so :eek:

PatrickBoylan

The separett unit is not actually a composting toilet. There is little on no break down happening in the unit. Urine and solid waste are separated at source and by keeping the solids dry you inhibit the break down. With this type of unit the solid waste is collected so it can be removed and placed outside to compost there for six months approx.

A composting toilet does not separate urine from the solids. The moisture and the nutrient content of the urine is required for the breakdown to occur. [mod]Um, I don't think so - no shilling.[/mod]

InTheTrees

mchammer wrote: »

Hi there,
just wondering if you got planning for your off grid cabin and did it include a composting toilet - am presently investigating the potential of a similar project.

Many Thanks
MC

Apologies. Six months later and I reply.

Nope. We stand no chance of getting planning for a cabin on our land.

Neighbours have said just go ahead and build it anyway, nobody would ever see it. But we'd like the option of renting it so keeping it legal would be important.

I've actually had a thread going in the "boating/sailing" forum about building a cabin on a floating platform (at that point its a "boat" and no permission needed and we have a lake on the land), but the issue of waste disposal is still a problem.

Hows your research going?

Stephen McD

hi folks I'm currently going through planning for a mobile home in Donegal and I use a compost system known as Humanure and my grey water goes through a grease trap then through 2 stone filters and then a slow sand filter. This all sounds good but Donegal co co want a septic tank. the mobile is temp as i'm building a hse. Anyone got any ideas how to get the right info to convince the planners. Any help would be great

PatrickBoylan

I heard of a planning decison for a campsite in Donegal where composting toilets were proposed. I think it got through. I don't know the humanure system (unless it's like a shed with a bucket) perhap the planners would be move ameniable to a proprietrary system. This way the planners would have some technical documentattion to review etc. Such systems are available in Ireland from Toilet Revolution....I hope that helps...

Stephen McD

thanks for that ill have a look at their site cheers

Stephen McD

Just found that campsite near donegal town with compost toilets. I'm going to get in touch with them. Thanks again for your help

olcod

Stephen McD wrote: »

Just found that campsite near donegal town with compost toilets. I'm going to get in touch with them. Thanks again for your help

Would love to know how you got on talking to these people or even if you could tell me how to get in touch with them as we will be going down this route ourselves for our campsite in Kerry, Thanks

Stephen McD

I sent them an email and they got back straight away asking me for more details of what i was doing. I sent on the details and have had no reply as of yet. The campsite is called 'happy glamping'.

Stephen McD

Anyone know where I might find the EU directive or regulations on compost toilets. I've been looking but can find nothing cheers

Macha

Stephen McD wrote: »

Anyone know where I might find the EU directive or regulations on compost toilets. I've been looking but can find nothing cheers

There's no specific regulation dealing with composting toilets but I imagine it would fall under a number of existing regulations, including the Urban Waste Water Directive, the Drinking Water Directive, the Bathing Water Directive aaaand the Sewage Sludge Directive.

Stephen McD

I had a look at those but nothing on compost toilets.
Thanks for that anyway

Macha

Like I said, it won't be mentioned explicitly but the Irish regulations implementing those Directives will provide what sketchy legal framework exists to govern composting toilets in Ireland.

InTheTrees

Stephen McD wrote: »

Anyone know where I might find the EU directive or regulations on compost toilets. I've been looking but can find nothing cheers

How did the Donegal camp site get approval?

I suppose a campsite with purpose built toilet facilities is easier to deal with than putting one in a residential home.

Chisler2

Stephen McD wrote: »

I had a look at those but nothing on compost toilets.
Thanks for that anyway

There are a couple of paragraphs in the Sewage Sludge Directive indicating increasing interest on behalf of the major waste processing institutions in Europe in composting sludge, and the environmental and economic advantages of doing so.

Though 'composting toilets' are not quoted directly I think the EU commitment to recover reuse and recycle could be helpfully evoked in dealing with County Councils.

Given that composting toilets perform the same task - in my experience more agreeably and effectively through aerobic processes - how can a County Council quibble at the means since the same end is achieved?

Like a number of posters here I wish to instal a composting toilet in an old cottage as it is more reliable, cheaper, and sound ecologically. I am gobsmacked that bureaucracy can intrude into private life to the extent of telling me where and how I can/not s*1t

InTheTrees

Stephen McD wrote: »

I had a look at those but nothing on compost toilets.
Thanks for that anyway

How's it going with your dealings with your cc?

You'll have your house (or at least the septic tank) built before its resolved most likely ?

Misty Moon

This is good reference stuff for me as I hope one day (still very far in the future) to be able to get my own place and definitely would like to have a composting toilet set-up there. Thanks for the links above to German sites, as that's most relevant for me.

With regard to planning, grey water reed beds, etc. the experiences of the couple living in That Roundhouse might be of interest and help. Have no connection to them other than having followed the last couple of years of their planning saga and then bought the small book, which I found fascinating to read, even if a lot of the building stuff went over my head. They're based in Wales but some of the stuff would still be useful - if you go through the planning saga pages, they also include copies of letters they wrote, etc.

Chisler2

Misty Moon wrote: »

This is good reference stuff for me as I hope one day (still very far in the future) to be able to get my own place and definitely would like to have a composting toilet set-up there. Thanks for the links above to German sites, as that's most relevant for me.

With regard to planning, grey water reed beds, etc. the experiences of the couple living in That Roundhouse might be of interest and help. Have no connection to them other than having followed the last couple of years of their planning saga and then bought the small book, which I found fascinating to read, even if a lot of the building stuff went over my head. They're based in Wales but some of the stuff would still be useful - if you go through the planning saga pages, they also include copies of letters they wrote, etc.

In that case you might be interested in the Baile Dulra eco-village project West Cork which was/is? intended to have composting toilets. Marcus McCabe who is involved with this is a big advocate of compostable toilets. See here http://transitionculture.org/wp-content/uploads/Baile-Dulra.pdf