Colts V Patriots Thread, Brady Vs Manning Thread

tallaghtoutlaws

Lads ok don't know about you guys but even i am now sick of the threads talking about hall of famers and teams of decades and best QBs qucikly turning into Brady Manning Debates or Colts Pats debates.

So here is a new thread for all of that guff. Eagle Eye, Davyjose knock yourselves out me thinks.......... :D

frostie500

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Lads ok don't know about you guys but even i am now sick of the threads talking about hall of famers and teams of decades and best QBs qucikly turning into Brady Manning Debates or Colts Pats debates.

So here is a new thread for all of that guff. Eagle Eye, Davyjose knock yourselves out me thinks.......... :D

probably should call it a superthread.....can see it being pretty busy!

tallaghtoutlaws

frostie500 wrote: »

probably should call it a superthread.....can see it being pretty busy!

Very true.

eagle eye

Its already been beaten to death in the other thread, I've no reason to continue.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Its already been beaten to death in the other thread, I've no reason to continue.

There will be a time in the future I guarantee you or davy kick off again or someone else lol

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

There will be a time in the future I guarantee you or davy kick off again or someone else lol

Its hardly likely with the thumping they got in that thread, just like their team usually does on the playoffs when Mannings loses whatever that thing is between his ears that Davyjose was talking about.:D

davyjose

eagle eye wrote: »

Its hardly likely with the thumping they got in that thread, just like their team usually does on the playoffs when Mannings loses whatever that thing is between his ears that Davyjose was talking about.:D

Yeah you really showed me,the Colts only have one SB this decade cos Manning is crap. Good one. It's clear he isn't the only one who loses whatever it is between his ears.

Black Swan

Blue stands on sidelines with her hand on the flag, ready to throw it should a personal foul occur on the field. "Come on lads, attack the issues, not each other!"

Chucky the tree

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

Blue stands on sidelines with her hand on the flag, ready to throw it should a personal foul occur on the field. "Come on lads, attack the issues, not each other!"

Don't mind them, this is just there way of flirting with each other. :pac:

ReacherCreature

Not this again! Tallaght you should have better sense!

tallaghtoutlaws

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Not this again! Tallaght you should have better sense!

Better here than every other thread haha :D

ReacherCreature

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Better here than every other thread haha :D

Very true! Although a case of Peyton Brady has broken out in the all-decade team!

tallaghtoutlaws

ReacherCreature wrote: »

Very true! Although a case of Peyton Brady has broken out in the all-decade team!

I know Another reason why I started this one. It makes me sad so it does.

ReacherCreature

Link them this thread and watch them tear each other apart. It's American Football, sure it's legal!

eagle eye

davyjose wrote: »

Yeah you really showed me,the Colts only have one SB this decade cos Manning is crap in the playoffs. Good one. It's clear he isn't the only one who loses whatever it is between his ears.

FYP to make this statement true.

Hazys

Brady >>>>>>>>> Manning

Patriots >>>>>>> Colts

davyjose

Hazys wrote: »

Brady <<<<<<<<< Manning

Patriots <<<<<<< Colts

Fixed for ya

_Buck Rogers

Not saying which player is better but I have a lot of respect for Manning, he's the Qb and more or less the OC. I would say he's the most intuitive Qb for a long time.

Anyway Mcnair was better than the both of them

Hazys

davyjose wrote: »

Fixed for ya

Damn you!

tallaghtoutlaws

_Buck Rogers wrote: »

Anyway Mcnair was better than the both of them

Always enjoyed McNair when he started out in the NFL. Always found him exciting to watch.

TheHeadhunter

Interesting piece from PFT asking whether or not Tom Brady has lost an edge since his injury and questioning if he is still one of the "Elite" Quarterbacks in the league.

ProFootballTalk - Tom Brady could be sliding out of the league's elite quarterbacks

Your thoughts?

tallaghtoutlaws

TheHeadhunter wrote: »

Interesting piece from PFT asking whether or not Tom Brady has lost an edge since his injury and questioning if he is still one of the "Elite" Quarterbacks in the league.

ProFootballTalk - Tom Brady could be sliding out of the league's elite quarterbacks

Your thoughts?

It is a bad argument to be honest. The Patriots Defense haven't helped the Patriots cause this season.

Brady has the 2nd most Passing yards this season behind Manning and ahead of Brees.

Its typical of these articles to find an excuse for when a team isn't winning. Our defense has given up over 300 yds per game this season.

eagle eye

Brady is stuck in the shotgun this season because he doesn't have good protection and he needs to be able to get rid of the ball quickly.

He is getting hit a lot and that will make any QB panic to a certain extent, he doesn't have time to look for everybody before he makes his throws, thats why Welker gets the first or second look and is the usual recipient. He needs a better OL if he is going to get back to stepping up in the pocket and having that bit of time to find his man.

His yardage is still huge on the season but that OL is the reason why we have been so much weaker in the red zone.

The D is not helping either but its not contributing to Brady's problems to be fair. We do need to pick up a top DE though, letting Seymour go was imo the biggest mistake that BB has made since he joined the Patriots. It might work out long term for us with the first round pick in 2011 but it could yet cost us our season. All the problems on D are eminating from not having a player like Seymour who OLs have to double up on.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

The D is not helping either but its not contributing to Brady's problems to be fair. We do need to pick up a top DE though, letting Seymour go was imo the biggest mistake that BB has made since he joined the Patriots. It might work out long term for us with the first round pick in 2011 but it could yet cost us our season. All the problems on D are eminating from not having a player like Seymour who OLs have to double up on.

You are right as always and I am wrong

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

I agree with the rest of what you said but are kidding me with the above?

Our defense is leaking far too many yards and scores and thus putting more pressure on our offense to score more. Putting pressure on Brady even more.

Thus contradicting the rest of what you said. The numbers Brady has this season even while struggling with his offense is as good as Manning and Brees. Now if our defense wasn't leaking so badly ask yourself how many of the games we lost would we have lost them. Of course not because Brady is still getting the job done enough as a QB but the team as whole isn't.

Even though Brady's numbers are huge its not transferring onto the scoreboard.
We are second in total offense, second in passing yards. We are 5th in scoring average but thats inflated by the Titans game. If you take out that game we are 10th on averaging scoring. Even being 5th in scoring with our stats is a shocker.

We have huge problems on D, but we also have huge problems on offense. Look at the games we have lost this year, we scored 9 against the Jets, 17 against the Broncos, 17 against the Saints, 21 against Miami and 34 againt the Colts.
When you score 17 points or less you don't win many games, there are only 7 teams who are averaging below that over the season.
Scoring 21 leaves you in the bottom half on average.

Our D certainly cost us the game against the Colts, no doubt about that but Brady and the OL have to take a lot of the blame for the loss to the Jets and some of it for the loss to the Broncos. Brady has had three horrid games this season, them being the two I just mentioned and the Saints game but its because he is not confident back there at this time, he is expecting the pressure to get through and thats because its happened too often.
That same O is also struggling to open holes for the running game, we have too many jags and no studs on the OL.

tallaghtoutlaws

You are right as always and I am wrong

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Are you trying to tell me the Saints loss was down to Brady? Are you for real? Both Saints and Colts games were solely down to our Defense and their inability to stop the pass. Our loss to Miami recently was down to the whole team a combination of both Offense and Defense. More play calling and formation problems and the lack of a secondary and pass rush.

I never said the Saints loss was on him, I said he had a terrible game there but I didn't pin the loss on him. I didn't pin the loss totally on Brady in either of the other games, my point is that the OL is horrendous. FFS will you read a thing properly before you start ranting.
And we don't have big problems in our secondary, as I said its all emanating from the DL, they get no pressure on the QB so he has all day to let his receivers get open. You give guys like Manning, Brees or even Henne all the time in the world and he will find a receiver no matter who you have in the backfield.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Any of the games in the first 5 weeks we struggled in and you can most certainly blame Brady but only because he was adjusting back into the game after being out for a year.

Brady had a bad first half against the Bills but came alive at the end of that game, he had no time in the pocket against the Jets so its the OL that has to take most of the blame there. He had no time against the Saints but in fairness he still threw a very bad interception. Againts the Broncos he was poor, he overthrew open recievers quite a lot in that game.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Eagle Eye look Im sorry but I fail to see any of your points. One week you are telling us Brady is the Best QB ever and then the next week you are telling us our losses are solely down to him. It can't be both. Once again you are blaming a QB for a teams troubles and losing a game.

To clear this up again, I'm not blaming the QB, I'm saying that he cannot possibly perform at his best with no protection. The line is just horrendous.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Had our Defense not given up so many yards and points in all 3 games Colts, Saints and Fins we would not have put so much pressure on our offense to perform. Sure our offense hasn't been 100% as the lack of time and protection at times and the fact we are using Shotgun more hasn't helped but that is not the main problem.

The only gave up 22 to the fins, you can't blame the D solely for that loss.
We are using Shotgun because of the state of our OL to let Brady see the pressure coming and get rid of the ball. Brady is one of the best if not the very best play action QBs thats ever been on a field, we would be using that strategy a lot more if we had any faith in our OL.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

The fact and the BIGGEST FACT Bill B keeps going for it on 4th and short shows us that he has no confidence in his defense and it shows to everyone but you it seems. Our defense is shocking this absolutely shocking. And when we play teams who pass the ball more we can't stop them. Look at the fins prime example the attempted nearly 40% more passes against us than they do normally and it worked for them.

BB decided to kick it away on 4th and inches in the first half after the two minute warning in the Dolpins game. He does not always go for it on 4th down, the fact that two plays on 4th down have becoming big topics of discussion does not mean that he is always going for it on 4th down. The man has a cold, calculating mind and makes the right decisions more than any other coach in the league. The one in Miami where he didn't take the field goal, thats got nothing to do with the D, thats believing in our offense. I don't blame him for that call and I don't agree that it cost us the game, yes numerically it did, but it is what transpired after it that lost us the game and you couldn't see that coming.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Now when you combine our defense leaking points and yards it piles the pressure on to our offense that is struggling in areas and this then stops us finishing off games.

And when you are not scoring enough, its piling the pressure on a D with no pass rush. Swings and roundabouts.

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Look my final point to blame Brady for the team losing is fooking ridiculous and anyone who stands by that point needs their head examined. Our team as a unit is failing hugely on defense and in areas on offense. Its a simple fact and plainly obvious. I

If you read all I have to say, I mention that Brady had a couple of poor games but I've said that its because of our OL that this is happening.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

I never said the Saints loss was on him, I said he had a terrible game there but I didn't pin the loss on him. I didn't pin the loss totally on Brady in either of the other games, my point is that the OL is horrendous. FFS will you read a thing properly before you start ranting.
And we don't have big problems in our secondary, as I said its all emanating from the DL, they get no pressure on the QB so he has all day to let his receivers get open. You give guys like Manning, Brees or even Henne all the time in the world and he will find a receiver no matter who you have in the backfield.

Brady had a bad first half against the Bills but came alive at the end of that game, he had no time in the pocket against the Jets so its the OL that has to take most of the blame there. He had no time against the Saints but in fairness he still threw a very bad interception. Againts the Broncos he was poor, he overthrew open recievers quite a lot in that game.


To clear this up again, I'm not blaming the QB, I'm saying that he cannot possibly perform at his best with no protection. The line is just horrendous.

The only gave up 22 to the fins, you can't blame the D solely for that loss.
We are using Shotgun because of the state of our OL to let Brady see the pressure coming and get rid of the ball. Brady is one of the best if not the very best play action QBs thats ever been on a field, we would be using that strategy a lot more if we had any faith in our OL.


BB decided to kick it away on 4th and inches in the first half after the two minute warning in the Dolpins game. He does not always go for it on 4th down, the fact that two plays on 4th down have becoming big topics of discussion does not mean that he is always going for it on 4th down. The man has a cold, calculating mind and makes the right decisions more than any other coach in the league. The one in Miami where he didn't take the field goal, thats got nothing to do with the D, thats believing in our offense. I don't blame him for that call and I don't agree that it cost us the game, yes numerically it did, but it is what transpired after it that lost us the game and you couldn't see that coming.

And when you are not scoring enough, its piling the pressure on a D with no pass rush. Swings and roundabouts.

If you read all I have to say, I mention that Brady had a couple of poor games but I've said that its because of our OL that this is happening.

Oh I am sorry I didn't read any of your posts and ranted without bothering to read any of it. And on that note Im leaving this debate as you were right and I was wrong. My apologies.

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Oh I am sorry I didn't read any of your posts and ranted without bothering to read any of it. And on that note Im leaving this debate as you were right and I was wrong. My apologies.

Well its clear you didn't when you are saying that I'm blaming Brady for our losses.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

Well its clear you didn't when you are saying that I'm blaming Brady for our losses.

:rolleyes: Yes again good sir you are right and I am wrong thank you for pointing that out to me.

You just can't let it go can you?

eagle eye

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

Yes again good sir you are right and I am wrong thank you for pointing that out to me.

If thats a genuine comment fair enough, if not I have no problem going back quoting my posts for you.

tallaghtoutlaws

eagle eye wrote: »

If thats a genuine comment fair enough, if not I have no problem going back quoting my posts for you.

See I knew you just can't let it go.

Stop trying to justify your posts all the time. You are quickly becoming one of these types of posters who always has to get the last word and try make it look to the rest of the world your opinion is the only opinion and you are always right. My suggestion just let it go because whether you quote yourself or not I'm not going to respond because the minute you called my posts a rant and said I didn't read yours you lost my interest because this isn't the first time you showed total lack of respect for other posts in response to yours in aid of making yourself look right.

Sure go ahead and quote yourself I really don't care if you want to waste all that time for nothing. If it makes you feel better go for it.

TheHeadhunter

tallaghtoutlaws wrote: »

You are quickly becoming one of these types of posters who always has to get the last word and try make it look to the rest of the world your opinion is the only opinion and you are always right..

frostie500

Just reading the posts today but something stuck out for me.
Eagle Eye you dont blame Tom Brady for the losses the Pats have had this year yet you do blame an inferior quaterback, in your opinion, Peyton Manning for the losses that the Colts have had in the past? Care to explain this oversight?

Gisty

frostie500 wrote: »

Just reading the posts today but something stuck out for me.
Eagle Eye you dont blame Tom Brady for the losses the Pats have had this year yet you do blame an inferior quaterback, in your opinion, Peyton Manning for the losses that the Colts have had in the past? Care to explain this oversight?

He's a Pats fan. They're like that.

_Buck Rogers

Gisty wrote: »

He's a Pats fan. They're like that.

Not all pats fans are, but he is.

eagle eye

frostie500 wrote: »

Just reading the posts today but something stuck out for me.
Eagle Eye you dont blame Tom Brady for the losses the Pats have had this year yet you do blame an inferior quaterback, in your opinion, Peyton Manning for the losses that the Colts have had in the past? Care to explain this oversight?

Thats a loaded question Frostie. I'm not going to answer it but I will clear something up for you.

I was discussing Mannings whole career, but particularly his postseason record. I was asked would I blame him for a Colts postseason loss and I said yes. That game would be the AFCCG in 2003 against the Pats. Manning was atrocious that day, he had two good drives but for the rest of the time he couldn't find a receiver and got intercepted 4 times, and there were plenty of 3 and outs too.
The Colts D stood up that day and held us to one touchdown, Manning has to take that loss all by himself.

I was discussing Tom Brady's season to date not his whole career. Brady has had a couple of stinkers in his career but they were regular season games and the Patriots would probably have been something like 7-1 or 10-2 when they happened.

frostie500

eagle eye wrote: »

Thats a loaded question Frostie. I'm not going to answer it but I will clear something up for you.

I was discussing Mannings whole career, but particularly his postseason record. I was asked would I blame him for a Colts postseason loss and I said yes. That game would be the AFCCG in 2003 against the Pats. Manning was atrocious that day, he had two good drives but for the rest of the time he couldn't find a receiver and got intercepted 4 times, and there were plenty of 3 and outs too.
The Colts D stood up that day and held us to one touchdown, Manning has to take that loss all by himself.

I was discussing Tom Brady's season to date not his whole career. Brady has had a couple of stinkers in his career but they were regular season games and the Patriots would probably have been something like 7-1 or 10-2 when they happened.

I hadnt intended it to be a loaded question, I honestly feel that you have a bias towards the Colts, and I doubt I'm alone in thinking that. I was merly trying to show you that there are contridictions in recent postings by yourself and as a result trying to find out if it was an oversight or else could you explain why you feel differently about the players.

However you were asked:"Are you saying Manning was the reason they lost it the other years?"
To which your reply was:

eagle eye wrote: »

Yes.

So while you may think you were only asked about one isolated game you were asked about considerably more games then a single poor outing in a championship game.

You have said elsewhere that Brady has struggled because of a poor line and poor defensive play whereas when Manning has failed its all on him. Manning has had all world recievers in the form of Harrison and Wayne but his line and running back play hasnt been of the same ability so I dont see why there would a discrepency in your viewpoint on the two QBs and their performances.

eagle eye

frostie500 wrote: »

You have said elsewhere that Brady has struggled because of a poor line and poor defensive play whereas when Manning has failed its all on him. Manning has had all world recievers in the form of Harrison and Wayne but his line and running back play hasnt been of the same ability so I dont see why there would a discrepency in your viewpoint on the two QBs and their performances.

I'm talking about Brady this season not over his career and not about one game either. I did say he had to take a lot of the blame for the loss to Denver.
I never said anywhere that Brady's problems were because of the D, thats ludicrous.

You can compare Brady and Manning with somebody else, I've said my bit on that, the one unanswered question in that thread has been addressed here now.