ROE DEER IN SLIGO.

Keelan

Well folks, belive this or not, up to ye.;)
I was up around Riverstown, co. sligo their yesterday, with a freind, bushing for some bunnys ect, when out pops a Roe doe. Now, as i have lived in the uk, wiltshire, for a number of years, i know what a roe doe looks like.
She ran acroos the feild and into the forrestry, gone, before i could get the camera out...:(
Talking to the farmer on the way back, he said he had seen a few of them type of small deer knocking about for a while now, but did not pass any heed on them...:eek:..:)
Hopefully they will spread, it would be nice to have a decent population over here.

Keelan.

CJhaughey

Interesting, another migrant I suppose

sixpointfive

Great to hear but was it wise to give the location, ?

ivanthehunter

Keelan wrote: »

Well folks, belive this or not, up to ye.;)
I was up around

---

??? their yesterday, with a freind, bushing for some bunnys ect, when out pops a Roe doe. Now, as i have lived in the uk, wiltshire, for a number of years, i know what a roe doe looks like.
She ran acroos the feild and into the forrestry, gone, before i could get the camera out...:(
Talking to the farmer on the way back, he said he had seen a few of them type of small deer knocking about for a while now, but did not pass any heed on them...:eek:..:)
Hopefully they will spread, it would be nice to have a decent population over here.

Keelan.

No harm there, just sit back and wait for the S.I to role in.

natdog

strange that so many think this is a good thing do we really need more foreign species in the country i see the same lack of resposibility with fish in our rivers and lakes

ivanthehunter

natdog wrote: »

strange that so many think this is a good thing do we really need more foreign species in the country i see the same lack of resposibility with fish in our rivers and lakes

Deer are good for shooting!

There might be some eco damage but ffs is there a single place left in the land of green which is untouched by the hand of man! Ans No!
maybe at the bottom of a lake!

Are all deer (other than some reds) from else where? Ans Yes.

To be honest i glad they're here! How bad could they be?

Are Muntjac more harmful? I think so!


Lisadale hall welcomes you back- warts and all!

natdog

the last introduction of deer to ireland was the sika close to 100 years ago and now there two coming into the country in quick succession.
I love sika and hunting them but they did destroy the wicklow red herd which was not foreseen at the time.
whats the long term damage from further introductions do we know?

sikastag

sixpointfive wrote: »

Great to hear but was it wise to give the location, ?

I agree.

Sparks

ivanthehunter wrote: »

Are all deer (other than some reds) from else where? Ans Yes.

Indeed! Brought in at the end of the last Ice Age only, the blow-ins! :rolleyes:

ronboy

natdog wrote: »

the last introduction of deer to ireland was the sika close to 100 years ago and now there two coming into the country in quick succession.
I love sika and hunting them but they did destroy the wicklow red herd which was not foreseen at the time.
whats the long term damage from further introductions do we know?

Holy moly they might start breeding with dogs maybe..then we'd have roedogs. :D

foxshot

ive seen roe and sika deer a lot there are loads where i come from

jwshooter

natdog wrote: »

the last introduction of deer to ireland was the sika close to 100 years ago and now there two coming into the country in quick succession.
I love sika and hunting them but they did destroy the wicklow red herd which was not foreseen at the time.
whats the long term damage from further introductions do we know?

how did sika destroy the red deer herd in wicklow ,there was (little) to know reds in the wild in wicklow from the 1600 to the time of lord powerscourt time .

reds and sika hybridized in lord powerscourts deer park before there were released or escaped.

there is some very red like stags knocking about wicklow but there more a recent introduction .

would this guy pass as a red to the untrained eye

Keelan

Well, i suppose i should of kept it quiet, but where i mentioned, is a vast place, in the middle of nowhere....!
Well off the beaten track.
Its well protected, i have contacted the local ranger, he told me that he knew they were their and reckons they have been their for a few years. He also, mentioned, they are not on the hunting list, think that might mean, they are not for shooting at all, bit like the red in kerry.
Good news, I for one, think its a great thing and why not.
im going to get out with the camera and see if i can get close for a picture.

Keelan.

thedragon

Keelan wrote: »

Well, i suppose i should of kept it quiet, but where i mentioned, is a vast place, in the middle of nowhere....!
Well off the beaten track.
Its well protected, i have contacted the local ranger, he told me that he knew they were their and reckons they have been their for a few years. He also, mentioned, they are not on the hunting list, think that might mean, they are not for shooting at all, bit like the red in kerry.
Good news, I for one, think its a great thing and why not.
im going to get out with the camera and see if i can get close for a picture.

Keelan.

Thats strange coming from a ranger.

natdog

jwshooter wrote: »

how did sika destroy the red deer herd in wicklow ,there was (little) to know reds in the wild in wicklow from the 1600 to the time of lord powerscourt time .

reds and sika hybridized in lord powerscourts deer park before there were released or escaped.

there is some very red like stags knocking about wicklow but there more a recent introduction .

would this guy pass as a red to the untrained eye

jw there was a pure red population in wicklow which is not there anymore due to escaped hybrids breeding with them.
the point is we dont know what the effects could be for the native flora and fauna with there introduction

happyjack

I blame Ryan Air, the cheap flights, you just dont know who/whats coming over here these days.

Sure if their a problem can't we eat them.

Any on ever heard the story of how the Kerry Blue Terrier came about? They were chosen by Collins as the National dog of Ireland being a fighting dog, but any way I wont bore you with the Kerryblue terrier story unless someone is dumb enough to ask me, ok, I swear, I'll wait till I'm asked. honest I will.

And they dont shed hair, they have a kind of fur instead, seriously same as a sheep.

HJ:)

BryanL

I think it's shocking that individuals are happy to introduce alien species for their own entertainment, without any other consideration.
Won't it be a bit strange to ask farmers for permission to get rid of a pest we (as hunting people) introduced?
Bryan

kakashka

BryanL wrote: »

I think it's shocking that individuals are happy to introduce alien species for their own entertainment, without any other consideration.
Won't it be a bit strange to ask farmers for permission to get rid of a pest we (as hunting people) introduced?
Bryan

ABSOLUTELY AGREE..

CJhaughey

As long as there is no border checks then we will have these problems occuring.
I know that for some people the idea of checks at ports and border crossings are an affront and they don't like them.
However the risks to agriculture and fisheries from uncontrolled and unchecked imports is incalculable.
Not to mind the chances of actually detecting illegal imports of contraband.
If the Govt was serious about looking after this kind of thing they would employ a lot more customs officials and utilise them at entry points.
Anyone flown into Australia/NZ? You can see and experience very effective controls at their borders, they take Agriculture and Fisheries seriously there.
More sport you say? What would the attitude be if these animals carried an infectious disease that happened to infect the existing Deer population and wiped them out?
Hypothetical question but not beyond the realms of possibility.

meathstevie

At least roe deer are native to the north western part of Europe where by my last reckoning Ireland is situated. Unlike them illusive munties. If they're not on the hunting list doesn't that mean they're outside the legal framework altogether and are in essence free for all ?

Vegeta

meathstevie wrote: »

At least roe deer are native to the north western part of Europe where by my last reckoning Ireland is situated. Unlike them illusive munties. If they're not on the hunting list doesn't that mean they're outside the legal framework altogether and are in essence free for all ?

No it's the opposite I thought

As they are deer they cannot be hunted without license and only in certain seasons

But as there is no actual season listed for them, they cannot be hunted at all

I think

meathstevie

Maybe someone can eliminate the doubt. I wouldn't squeeze the trigger if I wasn't sure about what I'm doing anyway.

sixpointfive

i would squeeze, i just wouldnt come on here telling the whole world and giving locations, straight into the pot with him..

Dusty87

Vegeta wrote: »

No it's the opposite I thought

As they are deer they cannot be hunted without license and only in certain seasons

But as there is no actual season listed for them, they cannot be hunted at all

I think

Vegeta,
When all the talk of the muntjac being here was going on, was it not said that because they were an invasive species were to be shot on site any time of year. But witha legal deer calibre??
Thats what i picked up, but was only half listening as i dont shoot deer

ronboy

sixpointfive wrote: »

i would squeeze, i just wouldnt come on here telling the whole world and giving locations, straight into the pot with him..

Yeah whose for keelan stew..??:D:D

It wasn't me!

Dusty87 wrote: »

Vegeta,
When all the talk of the muntjac being here was going on, was it not said that because they were an invasive species were to be shot on site any time of year. But witha legal deer calibre??
Thats what i picked up, but was only half listening as i dont shoot deer

There then arose a derogation to shoot muntjac under the same licensing system as our other deer species. If roe become prevalent, you can probably expect that a similar derogation will arise to allow their shooting.

Dusty87

It wasn't me! wrote: »

There then arose a derogation to shoot muntjac under the same licensing system as our other deer species. If roe become prevalent, you can probably expect that a similar derogation will arise to allow their shooting.

I wasnt sure. Just remember something along those lines. Thanks

friedcircuits

hey i'm from sligo the county is full of deer!

Grizzly 45

natdog wrote: »

the last introduction of deer to ireland was the sika close to 100 years ago and now there two coming into the country in quick succession.
I love sika and hunting them but they did destroy the wicklow red herd which was not foreseen at the time.
whats the long term damage from further introductions do we know?

ERrrr No! It actually was Roe deer up on Lisadell estate,They were introduced around the 1890s and were supposedly extinct by 1910 appx.
It is highly unlikely that Roe will mate with reds or sika.Due mainly to their size and the fact they dont really tolerate being around Reds too much

monarch

roe deer were in sligo untill around the 1930's when they were deliberately shot out prior to the planting of new forests.
did they get them all?
how bad can they be,they dont breed with other deer species,lots of hunters on here happy to talk about sika and put up there pictures in a few years the same hunters will be on about roe.
there is so much talk about the native red deer, are there any of them left if the truth be known,with the amount of reds releasd over the last number of years.
start on mink, a real invader that is doing serious damageto our fair land

Grizzly 45

[

quote=CJhaughey;63434846]As long as there is no border checks then we will have these problems occuring

The joys of the EU and UK free travel zones..Bad in somways,good in others,totally indifferent until IRL and the UK sign up to the Shenigan agreement.


.
I know that for some people the idea of checks at ports and border crossings are an affront and they don't like them.

See above point re free travel,goods and movement within the EU.
It is about the only good thing about this whole EU farsce.

However the risks to agriculture and fisheries from uncontrolled and unchecked imports is incalculable.

Not to mind the chances of actually detecting illegal imports of contraband.

Ahem,well considering that we are catching quite a good few drug hauls,cigs and whatnot,it seems to be more effective since the closed border times.

If the Govt was serious about looking after this kind of thing they would employ a lot more customs officials and utilise them at entry points.

They cant .

Anyone flown into Australia/NZ? You can see and experience very effective controls at their borders, they take Agriculture and Fisheries seriously there.

Yeah,because they have a rather unique habitat and biosphere[??] and are already invaded by domestic cats,wabbitts and Irish people!:DIn reality we have more exotic plants than critters here.

More sport you say? What would the attitude be if these animals carried an infectious disease that happened to infect the existing Deer population and wiped them out?
Hypothetical question but not beyond the realms of possibility.

Nothing more serious than what our already native deer pouplation have in diseases or what illegally smuggled cattle would carry.Unless it was foot and mouth,and we could shift pretty quickly[about the only time in recent history the State did] to deal with it.

happyjack

Ha ha ha ha, so funny, he wasent really just a deer, it was a mule, drug mule get it, thats how it got into Ireland, muling cocaine. I can just see it now at customs are you an Irish natural born Sika, Red deer or Fallow, have you anything to declare??? No its a Roe muling in coke!!! Or maybe as I'm getting far fetched Santas missing that ole Rudolf deer. No that wasent as funny as the mule bit, I'll shut up now.

HJ:)

natdog

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

ERrrr No! It actually was Roe deer up on Lisadell estate,They were introduced around the 1890s and were supposedly extinct by 1910 appx.
It is highly unlikely that Roe will mate with reds or sika.Due mainly to their size and the fact they dont really tolerate being around Reds too much

Sorry should have said last serious introduction of deer and i think your missing the point its not just about mating habits its about the introduction of foreign species without looking at long term effects on flora and fauna

iwsf

Let's shoot all the roe deers and all the wild boars if any !
Then we can go after the eagles that were released not long ago.
Anything else ?
Serioulsy i can't see why you wouldn't want roe deers in Ireland.

thelurcher

I'm not too fond of the introduction of new wildlife - e.g. Norwegian eagles in Kerry :rolleyes: what do people be thinking - but the thought of getting roe and the same shooting seasons for them as the UK is alright by me - it would make the summer a lot more interesting to say the least.

CJhaughey

thelurcher wrote: »

I'm not too fond of the introduction of new wildlife - e.g. Norwegian eagles in Kerry :rolleyes: what do people be thinking - but the thought of getting roe and the same shooting seasons for them as the UK is alright by me - it would make the summer a lot more interesting to say the least.

The Eagles in Kerry are not a new species they are a re-introduction of a species that was exterminated here.

BryanL

monarch wrote: »

start on mink, a real invader that is doing serious damageto our fair land

Most people have been very critical of the the Anti's for releasing mink in the first place and rightly so.
Hunting people are now open to the same criticism with regard to Roe and Muntjac
Bryan

thelurcher

CJ - I know that - for me personally it goes deeper than just sharing the same latin name though - it has to be all about bloodlines - once they die out then that's it.
Just my opinion on these reintroductions - like beavers in Scotland - it's probably a harmless enough exercise but it's all a bit pointless and fake.

If everyone in this country died tomorrow and a few years down the road the UN decided to repopulate the country with say a few million chinese (after all we are of the same species) - would they end up being as 'Irish' as us

Grizzly 45

BryanL wrote: »

Most people have been very critical of the the Anti's for releasing mink in the first place and rightly so.
Hunting people are now open to the same criticism with regard to Roe and Muntjac
Bryan

Thing is; the mink were commercially farmed on liscensed farms with [hopefully] the approapiate security in place to prevent mass outbreaks.So in effect the Sabs actions were industrial sabotage and possibly enviromental pollution.
As to wether hunters actually released or had anything to do with these re introductions...Well somone please provise some actual PROOF!! of this???It is too easy to jump on the "the hunters did this" bandwagon of guilt by association..remember people got up to all sorts of weird and wonderful capers in the Celtic tiger era...There is a possibility that somone with more money than sense decided it would be nice to have some pet deer on Chezfool manor[est 2000AD] and didnt know the first thing about keeping or fencing them in ,and off ran the lively garden ornaments to point unknown..:rolleyes:
I theorise that is why we dont or havent heard of many more muntjac being shot ,apart from the one case this year in Wicklow[?]Munties breed like crazy,so there should be more reports of them abounding.

BTW Natdog all the "Serious" introductions of sika,fallow,magpies,grey squirrels & pheasents were never intended as a lets introduce a new breed to Ireland as it will benefit .They were all gifts or follies brought in by the Ascendancy,or in pheasents ,magpies and fallow cases by the Normans.Which got out of control by breeding or escaping from the parks where they were tended.
Long term damage well lets see...
Going by invasive species Ireland website
Non native deer species
Habitat: Terrestrial
Threat: Threatens native ecosystems and species
Status: Potential
Currently there are three species of deer known to occur in a wild state on the island of Ireland. The Red Deer Cervus elaphus constitute Irelands only living native wild deer species while Fallow Dama dama and Sika Cervus nippon deer were both introduced as either a food source or hunting and ornamental purposes. Historically, a number of deer species have been introduced to many parts of the world. Problems arise when the herd populations begin to damage the native habitats and economic activities of the region. Of particular concern at present are species of deer present in Britain but not yet known present in Ireland. This includes Muntjac deer Muntiacus reevesi, and the Roe deer Capreolus capreolus.


Of the above,that could already be said of our native pouplations of mismanaged deer herds??

Impact

Deer tend to be large mammals with significant impact on the countryside in particular sites of conservation concern (e.g. woodlands) and forestry sites. [These animals can destroy the understory of forests by overgrazing; propagate other non native species such as Rhododendron; act as a reservoir for diseases (bovine TB) and parasites for domestic livestock; strip bark from trees and trampling of vegetation which in turn may lead to increased soil erosion.

Considering that Red,Falow and Sika are already capable of doing such [and do, no doubt],and this is all that we are worried about then Roe,muntjac and water deer wil be the least of our problems.. NONE of those three breeds are capable of interbreeding with each other or with the established breeds.The above arguements are rather in the Fig leaf variety.

While reintroducing extinct native species might be a good idea in some cases like the eagles,does that mean we must reintroduce wolves as well???:eek::eek:
After all, they were once native here and hunted to extinction..

Keelan

Vegeta wrote: »

No it's the opposite I thought

As they are deer they cannot be hunted without license and only in certain seasons

But as there is no actual season listed for them, they cannot be hunted at all

I think

This is exactly what the ranger told me, they are not to be shot!
He also mentioned, their most likely related to the ones that were supposedly culled out in Lisadell.
6.5, please stop your sarcastic remarks.
I was out their all day yesterday, trying to get a picture, seen 4 of them running off, all does, into the forrest, got a pic, but my digital camera is not the best, so am going to try and get a freind that has a good camera and see what we can get.

Keelan.

Grizzly 45

Does this ranger have any idea how these roe were not reported over the last 100 years as being seen around the Lisadell area??Also by not reporting this he is putting his job /career in danger,as he would be duty bound to report an invasive species..
Isnt it a bit weird that for somthing that was last shot in appx 1910,or at the very latest 1920s going by the historical records,suddenly emerges in public view a century later???
Taking an assumption of one breeding pair of a buck and doe,say they reproduce annually one fawn,for their natural lifespan of appx 12/15 years without any natural predation by man or beast very rough ,ballpark figures would suggest there must be over 3000 roe deer in that area alone in that century of invisibility...
And no one has noticed them around the area in all that time?
I know that part of the country is remote..But this is ridicilous...:D.

Tis one for the X Files I tells ya!!

pedroeibar

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

Impact

Deer tend to be large mammals with significant impact on the countryside in particular sites of conservation concern..............

Not to mention the impact on the front of your car.
Rs
P.

meathstevie

CJhaughey wrote: »

The Eagles in Kerry are not a new species they are a re-introduction of a species that was exterminated here.

So fundamentally no difference with wild boar...

CJhaughey

meathstevie wrote: »

So fundamentally no difference with wild boar...

Yup, do you hear me complaining about hogs.....;)
I believe mink are also occupying a vacant ecological niche that was created when the native ones were wiped out, The yankee mink might just have broader tastes though.
If fur was still worth anything they would be a lot less common than they are now.

Grizzly 45

CJhaughey wrote: »

Yup, do you hear me complaining about hogs.....;)
I believe mink are also occupying a vacant ecological niche that was created when the native ones were wiped out, The yankee mink might just have broader tastes though.

If fur was still worth anything they would be a lot less common than they are now.

Well,if they are renderd down,their fat,is a Grade A1 leather waterproof and protector

.

Not to mention the impact on the front of your car.

Thats what Bull bars were invented for.:pac:

sixpointfive

"6.5, please stop your sarcastic remarks"

wtf? use your head, if they are ever going to have a chance of survival then the less people that know their location the better.

Sparks

Other way round 6.5. The more people know, the higher the chances, which is why the reintroduction of eagles and grey partridges and so forth have been so widely publicised. The only reason to hide this is if the species has been illegally reintroduced, and that's nothing to do with conservation of a species.

happyjack

CJhaughey wrote: »

The Eagles in Kerry are not a new species they are a re-introduction of a species that was exterminated here.

Yeah leave our Kerry eagles alone,

HJ:)

CJhaughey

Grizzly 45 wrote: »

CJhaughey wrote: »

Well,if they are renderd down,their fat,is a Grade A1 leather waterproof and protector

I can do most anything, as I have a very understanding wife, But I think rendering mink fat would be just that little too much for her.
I can see it happening outside using the Turkey fryer but inside? I'll leave it to you Grizz.:D

Keelan

sixpointfive wrote: »

"6.5, please stop your sarcastic remarks"

wtf? use your head, if they are ever going to have a chance of survival then the less people that know their location the better.

Dont worry, they are very well protected, far more so then the very common sika in wicklow.

happyjack

It's a real shame we dont have wild boar or wolves here any more, plus has anyone seen a sky lark? I remember caddying as lad in Ballybunion and they used to pop up and sing their wee hearts out, but I havent seen one in years.

HJ:)