Refused admission to Dublin Bus with a folding bicycle

monument

I wounder how bus drivers will manage this part of Government policy:

8.8 Bicycles on Urban Bus Services
We will support the development of a pilot project for the carriage of bikes on urban bus services comparable to what is currently used on buses in Canada and US

It's sad when the US, and even LA, is ahead of us on something cycling related, page 3 [PDF]: http://www.metro.net/news_info/publications/images/bikes_rail.pdf

blorg

The buses look like this:

billy.fish

kona wrote: »

As regards to prams, most have brakes on them, as do the wheel chairs. Bikes do too, but they aint the permanently locked type.

Last time i checked these brakes on prams cant defy physics and stop prams flying. Type of lock makes no difference.

However my suggestion is carry a tesco's reusable bag, put brompton in said bag, carry on, stick tongue out at driver

tomasrojo

billy.fish wrote: »

Last time i checked these brakes on prams cant defy physics and stop prams flying. Type of lock makes no difference.

However my suggestion is carry a tesco's reusable bag, put brompton in said bag, carry on, stick tongue out at driver

I'm definitely bringing a garbage bag or something like that in future.

The main point of getting the folding bike was so that I could get public transport with my wife. I really don't need this type of pointless hassle.

RedPlanet

Dublin Bus are pr*cks.
I try my darndest not to give them my business.

actuallylike

Got refused onto a bus for having a bag of beer cans before, they weren't even opened and I was just going to my mates. Thought that was a bit offside.

droidus

I read about a guy who was refused with a cup of coffee one rush hour moring (after a girl with a cup had just been allowed on). He walked to the next stop, got there before the bus and gave the driver an earful before boarding.

Technically you can't consume food and drink on the bus. Though they cant refuse you if you want to bring your shopping on. No doubt the driver would claim he was worried you were going to drink the beer on the bus, and to be fair he may have had bad experiences with drunks on his route.

actuallylike

droidus wrote: »

I read about a guy who was refused with a cup of coffee one rush hour moring (after a girl with a cup had just been allowed on). He walked to the next stop, got there before the bus and gave the driver an earful before boarding.

Technically you can't consume food and drink on the bus. Though they cant refuse you if you want to bring your shopping on. No doubt the driver would claim he was worried you were going to drink the beer on the bus, and to be fair he may have had bad experiences with drunks on his route.

I can understand that he thought I was going to drink on the bus but I even said I'd sit up the front and went so far as to say that he could keep them in his compartment while we traveled but he was having none of it, think he was just an a$$hole as opposed to a person enforcing Dublin Bus rules.

2x4

I never had a problem bringing my folded Brompton onto Dublin Bus in the past. There is a big difference in how DB management treat their drivers. Those drivers on older contracts seem to have greater flexibility interpreting the rules. Those on newer contracts are treated differently and are regularly hauled before management for the slightest infringement of the rules. This can affect their career prospects. So spare a thought for these drivers.

kona

billy.fish wrote: »

Last time i checked these brakes on prams cant defy physics and stop prams flying. Type of lock makes no difference.

4 wheels(in most cases), a brake, a low Centre of Gravity. V 2 wheels and no brake, and a odd centre of gravity.

A pram is far more stable, and as a result of 4 wheels can support itself without falling. Which kinda does have alot to do with physics and design.

The lock prevents the wheels creeping when there are external forces on the pram, eg, bus, hill.

A bike has far more protruding parts than a pram, so is more likely to cause injury. Its also no as convienient to support, with both hands being needed to hold the front and the back.

Yes a folding bike is different, but there has to be a line somewhere. While the bus driver should have made a exemption or given a refund he did neither, but you have to realise why bikes aint allowed on.

If DB did allow bikes, every rainy day youd have dicks trying to get on busses with their BSOs and as a result clogging up gangways. Buses aint designed for bikes. When refused because you could get 7 people in the bus as opposed to 1+bike , they will start complaining and moaning.

Also most people who use buses, well on my route are OAPs, most need to be helped off the bus, even unobstructed gangways are too narrow for them, bikes would just clog this up and possibly cause them injury as well as hassle.

As blorg posted, the US and Canada have busses with racks on the front for bikes, they are designed to take bikes and so they allow you to carry them OUTSIDE the bus, away from people.

DirkVoodoo

kona wrote: »

4 wheels(in most cases), a brake, a low Centre of Gravity. V 2 wheels and no brake, and a odd centre of gravity.

A pram is far more stable, and as a result of 4 wheels can support itself without falling. Which kinda does have alot to do with physics and design.

The lock prevents the wheels creeping when there are external forces on the pram, eg, bus, hill.

A bike has far more protruding parts than a pram, so is more likely to cause injury. Its also no as convienient to support, with both hands being needed to hold the front and the back.

Yes a folding bike is different, but there has to be a line somewhere. While the bus driver should have made a exemption or given a refund he did neither, but you have to realise why bikes aint allowed on.

If DB did allow bikes, every rainy day youd have dicks trying to get on busses with their BSOs and as a result clogging up gangways. Buses aint designed for bikes. When refused because you could get 7 people in the bus as opposed to 1+bike , they will start complaining and moaning.

Also most people who use buses, well on my route are OAPs, most need to be helped off the bus, even unobstructed gangways are too narrow for them, bikes would just clog this up and possibly cause them injury as well as hassle.

As blorg posted, the US and Canada have busses with racks on the front for bikes, they are designed to take bikes and so they allow you to carry them OUTSIDE the bus, away from people.

I thought we were talking about folding bikes? Which, if I'm not mistaken, when folded have more in common with a piece of luggage rather than a bike?

There are a lot of petty bus drivers, one thing that irks me is when they see someone running for the bus (normally they reach the doors) and the bus driver quickly shuts the doors and pulls off. Of course, there are always the decent ones who actually wait 5 seconds and let the poor person board.

I think it's a kind of King Rat mentality. Big fish, small pond and all that.

kona

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

I thought we were talking about folding bikes? Which, if I'm not mistaken, when folded have more in common with a piece of luggage rather than a bike?

There are a lot of petty bus drivers, one thing that irks me is when they see someone running for the bus (normally they reach the doors) and the bus driver quickly shuts the doors and pulls off. Of course, there are always the decent ones who actually wait 5 seconds and let the poor person board.

I think it's a kind of King Rat mentality. Big fish, small pond and all that.

Im just saying why bikes aint allowed and why other wheeled objects are. I also said that they *should* have taken the foldup bike. Then again, from experience dealing with the public is not a good job, and it will get to people, it makes you a very pissed off person. This country is full of pricks.

I agree that DB needs a clean out of these pricks, Harsh as it is, recession is the best time, to cut the dead weight and improve companies.

BostonB

kona wrote: »

4 wheels(in most cases), a brake, a low Centre of Gravity. V 2 wheels and no brake, and a odd centre of gravity.

A pram is far more stable, and as a result of 4 wheels can support itself without falling. Which kinda does have alot to do with physics and design.

The lock prevents the wheels creeping when there are external forces on the pram, eg, bus, hill.

A bike has far more protruding parts than a pram, so is more likely to cause injury. Its also no as convienient to support, with both hands being needed to hold the front and the back.

Yes a folding bike is different, but there has to be a line somewhere. While the bus driver should have made a exemption or given a refund he did neither, but you have to realise why bikes aint allowed on.

If DB did allow bikes, every rainy day youd have dicks trying to get on busses with their BSOs and as a result clogging up gangways. Buses aint designed for bikes. When refused because you could get 7 people in the bus as opposed to 1+bike , they will start complaining and moaning.

Also most people who use buses, well on my route are OAPs, most need to be helped off the bus, even unobstructed gangways are too narrow for them, bikes would just clog this up and possibly cause them injury as well as hassle.

As blorg posted, the US and Canada have busses with racks on the front for bikes, they are designed to take bikes and so they allow you to carry them OUTSIDE the bus, away from people.

I seriously doubt they've give that much thought to it.

Put it in a bag end of problem. So its not the physical properties of the item, its bias against bikes. That said if there was a rule that a folding bike has to fit into a bag of certain dimensions, that would be fair enough. otherwise people would carry all sorts of stuff.

kona

BostonB wrote: »

I seriously doubt they've give that much thought to it.

Im sure the Company that builds the busses do. They build busses for a market, in our case the UK market.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

Put it in a bag end of problem. So its not the physical properties of the item, its bias against bikes.

Exactly.

BostonB wrote: »

That said if there was a rule that a folding bike has to fit into a bag of certain dimensions, that would be fair enough. otherwise people would carry all sorts of stuff.

People do though. I've carried huge parcels onto the bus. My mother-in-law brings a large trolley onto every bus she gets. If it's off-peak, the drivers don't care. Unless you're a cyclist, apparently.

tomasrojo

kona wrote: »

Im sure the Company that builds the busses do. They build busses for a market, in our case the UK market.

Well, the UK buses do take folding bikes:

http://www.atob.org.uk/Bike_Rail_2.html

The rules for the carriage of folding bikes on buses are slightly different to those by rail, because bus companies leave the bus driver or conductor a great deal of discretion. If a bike, or any other large item of luggage, looks likely to inconvenience other passengers, the bus driver can refuse to carry it.

Since the bus last night was empty, but for a few passengers upstairs, I hardly think it can be reasonably claimed that my compact, completely folded-up bike would incovenience anyone.

rflynnr

Unless I'm missing something, surely the issue of what the company who builds the buses (Bombardier, Volvo and Alexander in the case of DB) thinks they'll be used for is irrelevant. More pertinent is what the buyer (DB) has in mind when they outline their specifications to said bus builder.

An obvious case in point is Irish Rail's bike-myopia when they came to order new rolling stock for inter-city services. Were there really no coaches available which could carry bikes or did it simply not occur to IR to consider the needs of cyclists? I know which I think is more likely.

blorg

This is just bias against cyclists from a particular driver who was being a wánker. There is no good justification for it. I've brought far bigger packages on Dublin Bus myself and indeed an entire full-sized bike (in a bike suitcase) on the LUAS.

niceonetom

blorg wrote: »

This is just bias against cyclists from a particular driver who was being a wánker. There is no good justification for it. I've brought far bigger packages on Dublin Bus myself and indeed an entire full-sized bike (in a bike suitcase) on the LUAS.

+1

Bus driving git uses position of impunity to ruin cyclist's day. Nothing new there, except usually we're still on the bike while that happens.

kona

rflynnr wrote: »

Unless I'm missing something, surely the issue of what the company who builds the buses (Bombardier, Volvo and Alexander in the case of DB) thinks they'll be used for is irrelevant. More pertinent is what the buyer (DB) has in mind when they outline their specifications to said bus builder..

DB dont send in a brief, they buy off the assembly line. Thats why our buses are exact same spec as in the UK. They dont build specifically for DB. DB can modify the basic package for the Airlink, Ghostbus Etc. The Busses use vovle engines but the body is built by alexander I think. Bombardier busses went bust ages ago, DB stopped using them in the late 90s.
A bus builder will build a bus that meets the Brief that the company gives its engineers and designers. Seen as they have sold a **** load to DB and the various companies in the UK, they have carried out their brief quite well.

rflynnr wrote: »

An obvious case in point is Irish Rail's bike-myopia when they came to order new rolling stock for inter-city services. Were there really no coaches available which could carry bikes or did it simply not occur to IR to consider the needs of cyclists? I know which I think is more likely.

I think some of those carriges actually have bike hooks, or maybe I was seeing things.

BostonB

tomasrojo wrote: »

..People do though. I've carried huge parcels onto the bus. My mother-in-law brings a large trolley onto every bus she gets. If it's off-peak, the drivers don't care. Unless you're a cyclist, apparently.

There has to be a limit though. You couldn't bring something that would block the passage way etc.

That said a bike (in a bag) is smaller than a rucksack, and they are allowed on. Ditto shopping trolleys that auld dears use.

If the bike was in a bag I bet they'd be no issue. Therefor its not the size of the package. Thats a none issue.

IM0

If its in a clean bag/sack its a bag not a bike so..

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

There has to be a limit though. You couldn't bring something that would block the passage way etc.

That said a bike (in a bag) is smaller than a rucksack, and they are allowed on. Ditto shopping trolleys that auld dears use.

If the bike was in a bag I bet they'd be no issue. Therefor its not the size of the package. Thats a none issue.

Off-peak in an almost empty bus, it would have to be a huge object to block the passageway, since you have the entire wheelchair/buggy space to yourself.

Again though, as you say, what I was carrying on wasn't going to block the passageway or anything else.

tomasrojo

BostonB wrote: »

If the bike was in a bag I bet they'd be no issue. Therefor its not the size of the package. Thats a none issue.

If it were in a transparent bag, I bet you he'd still have an issue.

tomasrojo

Just to wrap this up: my wife made a complaint, and got a five-day pass by way of apology. They said that the driver had discretion as to whether anything brought on constituted a risk to other passengers, but that they apologised for the driver's behaviour. They never clarified whether they would ever have a policy specific to folding bikes and off-peak travel, but a five-day pass is quite a nice gesture.

Since this incident, I've been putting the Brompton into a large garbage bag before boarding any public transport, so hopefully this won't happen again. It's a pity to have to do it though.

BostonB

People can't complain about what they don't know.

p

tomasrojo wrote: »

Just to wrap this up: my wife made a complaint, and got a five-day pass by way of apology. They said that the driver had discretion as to whether anything brought on constituted a risk to other passengers, but that they apologised for the driver's behaviour. They never clarified whether they would ever have a policy specific to folding bikes and off-peak travel, but a five-day pass is quite a nice gesture.

Since this incident, I've been putting the Brompton into a large garbage bag before boarding any public transport, so hopefully this won't happen again. It's a pity to have to do it though.

Fair play to you for making a complaint. The more people do this, the more likely it will be to change something. I think to fix this ultimately though an allowance is needed specifically for foldable bikes so that drivers and passengers know where they stand.

_sparkie_

that seems a bit mad but it just goes to show what some drivers are like. one my my friends brought a drum kit on a DB before and there was no problem but then a driver didnt let me on a bus because i smiled to myself while he pulled up to the stop.

dolliemix

Just come across this thread. I think its crazy that DB wont allow folding bikes. Our public transport system should be encouraging people to use their bikes. They'd get more customers I reckon. In Berlin you can bring your bike on the subway. Its a super way to get around. Its a mindset which needs to change in this country.

Well done OP for following this through.

tomasrojo

_sparkie_ wrote: »

a driver didnt let me on a bus because i smiled to myself while he pulled up to the stop.

Paranoid or what. (The driver, not @_sparkie_.)