Refused admission to Dublin Bus with a folding bicycle

tomasrojo

Anyone know whether Dublin Bus has any official policy about folding bikes?

I was refused entry to a bus tonight with a Brompton (which as you know is only about the size of a small suitcase when folded). The bus was also empty. And I was accompanying my pregnant wife home, and she'd already paid for both of us, and he refused to refund her ticket, so she ended up going home alone on the bus.

I've got on Dublin Bus with the Brompton plenty of times before without any trouble.

kona

tomasrojo wrote: »

Anyone know whether Dublin Bus has any official policy about folding bikes?

I was refused entry to a bus tonight with a Brompton (which as you know is only about the size of a small suitcase when folded). The bus was also empty. And I was accompanying my pregnant wife home, and she'd already paid for both of us, and he refused to refund her ticket, so she ended up going home alone on the bus.

I've got on Dublin Bus with the Brompton plenty of times before without any trouble.

Your not allowed bikes on Dublin Bus. Some drivers let you however, but due to insurance they are not allowed.

Now a bag over the bike is a different story.

You just met one of the many DB prick drivers.

WIZE

Ring Dublin Bus and file a complaint . sure it must be smaller the a buggy when folded up

kenmc

W@nker. If it had been in a bag there'd have been no issue at all. I hope you got his name and bus number; get onto the depot.
Should have opened it up, cycled all the way home in the bus lane ahead of him, stopping him at every bus stop on the way.

tomasrojo

Most Haunted wrote: »

Ring Dublin Bus and file a complaint . sure it must be smaller the a buggy when folded up

It's much, much, much smaller than a folded buggy.

kona

kenmc wrote: »

Should have opened it up, cycled all the way home in the bus lane ahead of him, stopping him at every bus stop on the way.

As amusing as it is, its not doing anybody any favours.

The way DB and their Insurers look on it is, Bus crashes, somebody has a bike on board and it flies and hits a baby in the pram(yes were getting dramatic here). DB isnt covered for the inevitable claim by theparent on behalf of the parent because they are in breach of their insurance agreement.

Its harsh but there has to be a line. As regards to prams, most have brakes on them, as do the wheel chairs. Bikes do too, but they aint the permanently locked type.

Jarren

tomasrojo wrote: »

Anyone know whether Dublin Bus has any official policy about folding bikes?

I was refused entry to a bus tonight with a Brompton (which as you know is only about the size of a small suitcase when folded). The bus was also empty. And I was accompanying my pregnant wife home, and she'd already paid for both of us, and he refused to refund her ticket, so she ended up going home alone on the bus.

I've got on Dublin Bus with the Brompton plenty of times before without any trouble.

ok..so legal policy

Bringing on items
Bringing on items likely to cause damage to a vehicle

No person shall take or cause to be taken on to any vehicle if requested not to do so by an authorised person any bird, animal, article or thing which by reason of its nature is in the opinion of the authorised person likely to cause annoyance or damage to any passenger or damage to any property.
No person except a member of the Defense Forces or of the Garda Síochána acting in the course of his duty shall take, or cause to be taken, upon any vehicle any weapon of any kind or any inflammable explosive or corrosive gas, spirit or substance.

No person shall take or cause to be taken upon any vehicle any article or thing, including alcohol, which is or may become dangerous or offensive to any person or property.

If a person who contravenes the above Bye-Laws also fails to remove from the vehicle immediately upon a request by an authorised person any article or thing to which these Bye-Laws relate the same may be removed by or under the directions of an authorised person.

Return to all Dublin Bus Bye laws

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Bringing-on-items/

it does not say anything about the folded bikes. I suppose i'ts up to the bus driver to decide whether to allow/refuse you entry to a bus

kona

jarecki1976 wrote: »

ok..so legal policy

Bringing on items
Bringing on items likely to cause damage to a vehicle

No person shall take or cause to be taken on to any vehicle if requested not to do so by an authorised person any bird, animal, article or thing which by reason of its nature is in the opinion of the authorised person likely to cause annoyance or damage to any passenger or damage to any property.
No person except a member of the Defense Forces or of the Garda Síochána acting in the course of his duty shall take, or cause to be taken, upon any vehicle any weapon of any kind or any inflammable explosive or corrosive gas, spirit or substance.

No person shall take or cause to be taken upon any vehicle any article or thing, including alcohol, which is or may become dangerous or offensive to any person or property.

If a person who contravenes the above Bye-Laws also fails to remove from the vehicle immediately upon a request by an authorised person any article or thing to which these Bye-Laws relate the same may be removed by or under the directions of an authorised person.

Return to all Dublin Bus Bye laws

http://www.dublinbus.ie/en/About-Us/Dublin-Bus-Bye-Laws/Bringing-on-items/

it does not say anything about the folded bikes. I suppose i'ts up to the bus driver to decide whether to allow/refuse you entry to a bus

2nd line there mate.;) its all about driver interpritation.

tomasrojo

Thanks, lads.

I see what you mean, Kona, but it's effectively not a bicycle when it's folded up. It's a small, stable package that stands on its own. It can't go anywhere. It can't roll. It as dangerous as a small suitcase.

biomed32

are bus and rail conected, hate to sound stupid here not knowing but if they are wouldnt they have the same kind of policies, train will allow you a folded up bike on board no questions asked

cdaly_

DB and their Insurers

AIUI, DB are self insured so there are no Insurers nor an agreement to violate...

DirkVoodoo

Most Haunted wrote: »

Ring Dublin Bus and file a complaint . sure it must be smaller the a buggy when folded up

+1

When I was in London back in march, some lady brought a darn pitbull onto the bus and a young mother with her baby in a buggy started freaking out at the bus driver. In that case, I can understand and would want that "by-law" applied.

People bring suitcases, buggies and all sorts of crap onto buses (even their drunken selves), I can't see how a folding bike is somehow classed in a different category.

Actually, I remember back in school having a rolled up mcdonalds bag and being refused entry by the driver until I chucked it in the bin, it was the 63 bus and it came once every hour

I think there is a simple lesson to take away here, but I won't state the obvious answer in case I incur the wrath of any drivers.

kona

tomasrojo wrote: »

Thanks, lads.

I see what you mean, Kona, but it's effectively not a bicycle when it's folded up. It's a small, stable package that stands on its own. It can't go anywhere. It can't roll. It as dangerous as a small suitcase.

Kinda ****, but there has to be a line somewhere. At the end of the day, the driver is responsible for the bus and its passengers.

tomasrojo

I'm going to get a garden refuse sack and fold it away into my Brompton pannier. I'll put the bike in that in future before getting on public transport. Not risking this kind of hassle again.

The wife is going to lodge a complaint about this. The whole incident showed a lack of both courtesy and common sense.

tomasrojo

kona wrote: »

Kinda ****, but there has to be a line somewhere. At the end of the day, the driver is responsible for the bus and its passengers.

Again, I see what you mean, but I don't for a minute think he thought that a tiny, neat package like that was an encumbrance or danger to anyone. Also, the bus was nearly empty.

tudlytops

Just buy the bag for the bike and you won't have that problem again

kona

tomasrojo wrote: »

Again, I see what you mean, but I don't for a minute think he thought that a tiny, neat package like that was an encumbrance or danger to anyone. Also, the bus was nearly empty.

I know exactley where your coming from, Ive been there too:(. You just got a prick of a driver.

But you have to understand the flipside of the story too, the guy was there doing his job, and part of that is keeping his passengers safe and bus undamaged. You are also entitled to travel in some form of comfort, while a bike may not be much, when you allow people on with bikes, your opening the door to the muppets who will take the piss, bringing on lawnmowers and other such crap.

Perhaps a call to the Depot to find out what there side is? I wouldnt mentions routes or drivers though.

Writing letters of complaint, holding up busses and throwing the toys out of the pram aint the way to endear yourself to a already fairly anti-cyclist company, which operate 20ton busses in the same 3m wide lane as cyclists.

brayblue24

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's much, much, much smaller than a folded buggy.

Nice suit though, where'd you pick it up?

brayblue24

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

+1

it was the 63 bus and it came once every hour

...and it hasn't changed (I remember it well)...

but that's counthry life fer ya:)

petethedrummer

I brought two bike wheels home on the bus last night! No hassle. They could have rolled anywhere!!!!:eek:

Seems awful petty of the driver to not let a folder on.

tomasrojo

kona wrote: »

Writing letters of complaint, holding up busses and throwing the toys out of the pram aint the way to endear yourself to a already fairly anti-cyclist company, which operate 20ton busses in the same 3m wide lane as cyclists.

I didn't hold up the bus though. I protested briefly, mentioned that I'd brought it on plenty of times before and when he was immovable on the subject, I got off and cycled home. "Throwing the toys out of the pram" isn't fair to me either.

I don't understand why he couldn't use his discretion and either
a) let me travel with a warning not to bring it on again, seeing as I was travelling with a heavily pregnant woman
or
b) give us a change ticket for my wife's fare so she could get off without wasting the money

He refused point blank to give us a change ticket, though we couldn't travel as we'd originally planned.

It just lacks common sense or proportion. He did not think for one minute that I was going to cause trouble or an accident.

tomasrojo

"holding up the bus" is a reference to a previous poster talking about stopping the bus at every stop, isn't it? Sorry, kona, didn't get the reference.

hunter164

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

+1

When I was in London back in march, some lady brought a darn pitbull onto the bus and a young mother with her baby in a buggy started freaking out at the bus driver. In that case, I can understand and would want that "by-law" applied.

Thought you were allowed bring dogs onto buses in England? Long as you sit up the back of the bus?

kona

tomasrojo wrote: »

"holding up the bus" is a reference to a previous poster talking about stopping the bus at every stop, isn't it? Sorry, kona, didn't get the reference.

It was a refrence to a previous post not made by yourself.

Well, I'd complain about not being given a change ticket, thats just wrong. These guys get whats coming to them eventually.

rx8

kona wrote: »

You just met one of the many DB prick drivers.

kona wrote: »

. You just got a prick of a driver.

But you have to understand the flipside of the story too, the guy was there doing his job, and part of that is keeping his passengers safe and bus undamaged.

What's your problem with bus drivers.....??

One minute he's a prick and the next minute he's just doing his job !!!

The company do cover their own insurance but no matter what happens on the bus,even if the driver is 100% in the right, I guarantee you the company will still find some way to blame him for something.

Seems to me like a lot of DB drivers are grumpy feckers, both in their driving and how they deal with passengers. I really doubt they were exhibiting such high levels of grumpy feckerishness when they were first hired, there seems to be something about the organisation that makes them that way.

My guess is that their management are pricks to them and so they take it out on the only people they have any authority over-passengers, and occasionally those who they don't have any legal power over but have the ability to bully due to the large size of the vehicle-ie cyclists.

We've all heard the stories about cyclist being squeezed out of the bus lane because there's a "perfectly good" cycle lane/path. These are not the actions of non-stressed people.

By comparison most of the bus drivers here in Cork are much more affable in how they deal with passengers, and much more courteous on the road. now I'm not saying they're inherently better people, it just seems they're less stressed out by the organisation they work for.

kona

rx8 wrote: »

What's your problem with bus drivers.....??

One minute he's a prick and the next minute he's just doing his job !!!.

Some drivers are cool some are pricks. I said the OP unfortunatley got a prick... He is just doing his job, but SOME bus drivers apply common sense to rules.

rx8 wrote: »

The company do cover their own insurance but no matter what happens on the bus,even if the driver is 100% in the right, I guarantee you the company will still find some way to blame him for something.

Whats that got to do with the price of bread? No need to be bitter about your current/previous employers.

tomasrojo

rx8 wrote: »

The company do cover their own insurance but no matter what happens on the bus,even if the driver is 100% in the right, I guarantee you the company will still find some way to blame him for something.

I don't have any idea what working as a bus driver is like, and I have no complaint against Dublin Bus drivers generally.

What happened to me and my wife last night was petty and bordering on vindictive. I don't care whether that driver had had a hard time from management or a sad life or whatever; I didn't do anything to him, and I was just trying to get home with my wife. There were better ways of dealing with the situation instead of talking to me as I were an errant school boy, and applying regulations that were obviously written for bikes that are over 1.5m long and have a marked propensity to fall over when left on their own rather than a stable package that's about 545mm long x 270mm wide with no protruding parts.



The main selling point of compact folding bikes is that they can be brought safely and without disruption onto public transport.

penexpers

tomasrojo wrote: »

The main selling point of compact folding bikes is that they can be brought safely and without disruption onto public transport.

That's the marketing spiel of the bike companies. It doesn't mean that all public transport companies have to accept these bikes on board (which is what are trying to get at, I think)

With Irish Rail, who have an actual bike policy, they state that all folding bikes must be covered. In reality, enforcement of this is patchy at best. I've certainly never been prevented from getting on a train with an uncovered folding bike.

At the end of the day, the bus driver has discretion about what he allows (or doesn't allow) on his bus. Sounds like he could have handled the situation better though.

droidus

tomasrojo wrote: »

I don't have any idea what working as a bus driver is like, and I have no complaint against Dublin Bus drivers generally.

What happened to me and my wife last night was petty and bordering on vindictive. I don't care whether that driver had had a hard time from management or a sad life or whatever; I didn't do anything to him, and I was just trying to get home with my wife. There were better ways of dealing with the situation instead of talking to me as I were an errant school boy, and applying regulations that were obviously written for bikes that are over 1.5m long and have a marked propensity to fall over when left on their own rather than a stable package that's about 545mm long x 270mm wide with no protruding parts.

The main selling point of compact folding bikes is that they can be brought safely and without disruption onto public transport.

You are 100% right here. You wanted to bring baggage on a bus. There is a baggage rack for that purpose. If it had been me I would've refused to get off the bus until he gave a refund or allowed me on.

Dublin Bus have to respond to your complaint within 3 days. Make a written complaint via email followed by a phone call or two and be persistent. The customer services manager is "Maher Tom (BAC)" <Tom.Maher@dublinbus.ie>. You will have to follow it up, but be firm and polite and explain how appalled you are that the driver:

1. Was unreasonable in preventing you from traveling with baggage.

and

2. Was unreasonable in his refusal to offer a refund to your wife.

Ask if it is policy to force pregnant women to travel alone on the bus and demand a refund for the ticket and that the driver be spoken to about his behaviour.

Ive had several occasions to complain to DB about wanker drivers and in one case I got a guy removed form my route (he wouldn't answer questions from boarding passengers and physically threatened me when I did it on his behalf) and Ive gotten free bus passes of them once or twice.

gman2k

I think it should be made official policy that folding bikes are allowed on all public transport.
I'm sure some tree hugger in Dublin City Council could do something about this.