GRA to ballot members

Dirk Gently

The Garda Representative Association could be joining PS workers on any future strikes. Looks like they're going to ballot members on strike action.

It could just be saber rattling to influence the budget but if they follow through and actually do go out on strike then any upcoming PS strikes just got a whole lot more worrying for the government.

Interesting times ahead.

LINK

seamus

The "frontline alliance" as they're called, need to distance themselves from the rest of the public service and establish themselves as an individual entity for any strike action to be effective.

Gardai, Nurses, Firemen and so forth have a lot more public support and sympathy than your pen-pusher or middle management bod so the government wouldn't get much stick for going easy on them in the budget (or afterwards).

ceret

Isn't it illegal for the Gardaí to strike... I'm sure the guards will prosecute themselves for that breech of the law. :P

irish_bob

seamus wrote: »

The "frontline alliance" as they're called, need to distance themselves from the rest of the public service and establish themselves as an individual entity for any strike action to be effective.

Gardai, Nurses, Firemen and so forth have a lot more public support and sympathy than your pen-pusher or middle management bod so the government wouldn't get much stick for going easy on them in the budget (or afterwards).

while nurses are the most sacred of sacred cows in this country and have a uniqueley special place in irish peoples hearts , being a people who are naturally hostile to authority , the guards are not all that well liked and i dont believe most people will support thier move



ps . check out garda pay rates here

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

segaBOY

Military Police may be on the streets in a few weeks so, interesting times indeed.

Inquitus

Gardai go on strike and they'll have absolutely feck all public support, plus it illegal for them to do so.

hierro

irish_bob wrote: »

while nurses are the most sacred of sacred cows in this country and have a uniqueley special place in irish peoples hearts , being a people who are naturally hostile to authority , the guards are not all that well liked and i dont believe most people will support thier move



ps . check out garda pay rates here

http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

and check out http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520Averages are all smoke and mirrors.

I'm a member, I don't agree with strike action. I think we should stand on our own two feet in representing ourselves....

d00gle

The issue is not the strike action, I'm a Garda and will not strike because it would go against what I believe in and thats upholding the law.... for us what the issue is that we cannot deal directly with government on any sort of pay issues.... good or bad. Everybody else deals directly and therefore has direct input whatever the outcome. However for Gardai its literally someone from government comming out of a room and goin "thats whats your getting..... or not as the case may be". Is this anyway to treat a Police Force of a nation whatever your feeling towards them??? Let me be clear... no Police Force should strike.... but should be given a voice to deal directly with government just like all unions and employer groups alike.

ROS123

seamus wrote: »

The "frontline alliance" as they're called, need to distance themselves from the rest of the public service and establish themselves as an individual entity for any strike action to be effective.

Gardai, Nurses, Firemen and so forth have a lot more public support and sympathy than your pen-pusher or middle management bod so the government wouldn't get much stick for going easy on them in the budget (or afterwards).

Seamus, they could but who will feed them, clean up after them, or more importantly, pay them ?

Rob67

segaBOY wrote: »

Military Police may be on the streets in a few weeks so, interesting times indeed.

There is nowhere near enough of them to cover even the most mundane of Garda operations, so that would be a non-runner. Added to that, they would have no authority to act in such a capacity except by way of civil arrest.

super_furry

Can't see how any Gardai can advocate breaking the law.

seamus

irish_bob wrote: »

while nurses are the most sacred of sacred cows in this country and have a uniqueley special place in irish peoples hearts , being a people who are naturally hostile to authority , the guards are not all that well liked and i dont believe most people will support thier move

I don't think that's quite so true any more. The Garda Siochana had a tough time at it's inception since it came directly from the police force that was in place during the free state era, so for a long time, being a member of the Gardai was seen as being an agent of the British government. Indeed, the IRA probably had more support than the Gardai during the "troubles" because the IRA were seen as Irish freedom fighters and the Gardai were still the remnants of traitors. The IRA's completely remorseless murder of Gerry McCabe illustrates this - Sinn Fein still don't think there was anything wrong with his murder.

Back then, people went into the Gardai not for the glory but because they wanted to crack heads and get a good, safe, pensionable salary to boot. A family would be ashamed of having a Garda son, while secretly using his connections to serve themselves. This is the other problem Gardai had - they were seen as power abusers and nothing but corrupt thugs. Donegal for example.

Particularly though over the last 15 years, this has changed. There was far more money to be made outside of the public service and becoming a Garda has become more of a vocation than a highly-sought meal ticket. Coupled with massive improvements in the organisation itself, it's efficiency, professionalism and image, people just don't have the same vitriol they used to. Most ordinary people know a Garda by name - be it family or friend - and aren't ashamed to say they know them.
There are certain segments of society who consider Gardai to be thugs and wasters, but they're primarily travellers, scumbags and chuckies.

That sounds like a recruitment ad for the Gardai , I know they're far from perfect and there's a lot to do, but I don't personally know anyone who actually hates the Gardai or who has contempt for them - everyone I know respects the ****e they have to deal with and is glad that they exist.

future_plans

Garda Strike! Army on the streets! Anarchy! The Unions will bring down the country....the end is nigh!

What a fcking mess!

irish_bob

hierro wrote: »

and check out http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055750520Averages are all smoke and mirrors.

I'm a member, I don't agree with strike action. I think we should stand on our own two feet in representing ourselves....

averages are smokes and mirrors , are your bertie aherne , only bertie could dismiss the universally accepted meaning of what defines averages , you might aswell say the laws of gravity are smokes and mirrors :rolleyes:

irish_bob

seamus wrote: »

I don't think that's quite so true any more. The Garda Siochana had a tough time at it's inception since it came directly from the police force that was in place during the free state era, so for a long time, being a member of the Gardai was seen as being an agent of the British government. Indeed, the IRA probably had more support than the Gardai during the "troubles" because the IRA were seen as Irish freedom fighters and the Gardai were still the remnants of traitors. The IRA's completely remorseless murder of Gerry McCabe illustrates this - Sinn Fein still don't think there was anything wrong with his murder.

Back then, people went into the Gardai not for the glory but because they wanted to crack heads and get a good, safe, pensionable salary to boot. A family would be ashamed of having a Garda son, while secretly using his connections to serve themselves. This is the other problem Gardai had - they were seen as power abusers and nothing but corrupt thugs. Donegal for example.


complete and utter hogwash , the majority of guards either during the boom or now wouldnt have a hope of earning more in the private sector , this past decade when it came to potential earnings for those who joined the guards , it was a case of choosing a career pulling motorists for no tax displayed or shovelling cement on a building site , the difference being the garda paid alot more , most labourers or even plumbers and electricians didnt earn 1200 euro per week and none of them had the same pension benefits
Particularly though over the last 15 years, this has changed. There was far more money to be made outside of the public service and becoming a Garda has become more of a vocation than a highly-sought meal ticket. Coupled with massive improvements in the organisation itself, it's efficiency, professionalism and image, people just don't have the same vitriol they used to. Most ordinary people know a Garda by name - be it family or friend - and aren't ashamed to say they know them.
There are certain segments of society who consider Gardai to be thugs and wasters, but they're primarily travellers, scumbags and chuckies.

That sounds like a recruitment ad for the Gardai , I know they're far from perfect and there's a lot to do, but I don't personally know anyone who actually hates the Gardai or who has contempt for them - everyone I know respects the ****e they have to deal with and is glad that they exist.

complete and utter hogwash , the majority of guards either during the boom or now wouldnt have a hope of earning more in the private sector , this past decade when it came to potential earnings for those who joined the guards , it was a case of choosing a career pulling motorists for no tax displayed or shovelling cement on a building site , the difference being the garda paid alot more , most labourers or even plumbers and electricians didnt earn 1200 euro per week and none of them had the same pension benefits

segaBOY

Rob67 wrote: »

There is nowhere near enough of them to cover even the most mundane of Garda operations, so that would be a non-runner. Added to that, they would have no authority to act in such a capacity except by way of civil arrest.

Weren't they on stand by during the last blue flu? Themselves and the higher Garda ranks would cover policing.

seamus

irish_bob wrote: »

complete and utter hogwash , the majority of guards either during the boom or now wouldnt have a hope of earning more in the private sector , this past decade when it came to potential earnings for those who joined the guards , it was a case of choosing a career pulling motorists for no tax displayed or shovelling cement on a building site , the difference being the garda paid alot more , most labourers or even plumbers and electricians didnt earn 1200 euro per week and none of them had the same pension benefits

Starting Garda salary is just over €500/week (excluding overtime and allowances obviously).

During the boom, people didn't think long-term. In 2002/2003, an 18-year-old leaving school could easily walk onto a building site and earn €22k or more pretty much instantly, increasing very rapidly, and generally living the life of reilly. Anyone with a trade was in high demand and could earn €30k before they'd even finished training. In the Gardai on the other hand, you'd have to spend two years in Templemore before starting on a salary of €25k possibly in a station a long way from home.

Joining the Gardai has not been an attractive option when you consider the high starting salaries and large pay increases which were available in boom industries such as construction.

You also have to consider that being a Garda isn't a cushy number. You don't get to sit at a desk 9-5, surfing the web when you're bored.

jon1981

segaBOY wrote: »

Military Police may be on the streets in a few weeks so, interesting times indeed.

what like all 900 of them? would make f*ck all difference

segaBOY

seamus wrote: »

In the Gardai on the other hand, you'd have to spend two years in Templemore before starting on a salary of €25k possibly in a station a long way from home.

Don't you get a decent allowance of €203 per week and boot and uniform allowance of €7.32 in Templemore excluding the additional bed and board in phase 1 alone? Isn't the starting salary €27,098? Before over time and allowances of course.

jon1981 wrote: »

what like all 900 of them? would make f*ck all difference

Them and higher ranking Gardaí who would be called in. It wouldn't be to the same level of policing but you have to make do in times of emergency.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pay-restraint-gives-garda-the-blue-flu-1162089.html

larrytom

The public service using the gardai to get their way
No government should give in to this
Shame on the gardai if they do

seamus

segaBOY wrote: »

Don't you get a decent allowance of €203 per week and boot and uniform allowance of €7.32 in Templemore excluding the additional bed and board in phase 1 alone? Isn't the starting salary €27,098? Before over time and allowances of course.

Whatever you get paid, it's still time away from your family and friends, bunking with other people and effectively living in a barracks.
Salary-wise the Gardai is attractive now, because it's safe and pensionable. But before people's jobs were at risk, you have to *want* to be a Garda to consider it as a career choice.

gent9662

d00gle wrote: »

The issue is not the strike action, I'm a Garda and will not strike because it would go against what I believe in and thats upholding the law.... for us what the issue is that we cannot deal directly with government on any sort of pay issues.... good or bad. Everybody else deals directly and therefore has direct input whatever the outcome. However for Gardai its literally someone from government comming out of a room and goin "thats whats your getting..... or not as the case may be". Is this anyway to treat a Police Force of a nation whatever your feeling towards them??? Let me be clear... no Police Force should strike.... but should be given a voice to deal directly with government just like all unions and employer groups alike.

Is being told what you are getting any different in the private sector? The only difference is that we get an extra sentence thrown in which goes like this: "If you don't like it, leave! You guys have milked the system for so so many years. You have savage overtime hours, bonuses, allowances to beat the band, free travel on the train by flashing the badge. I'm sure there are also a lot of other hidden extra's.

You are absolutely right when you say no to strike action. I believe every Garda takes an oath to the constitution before receiving their badge?

I hope the Guards go on strike, if it was anything like the last one, it will prove that the country can survive very well when the public sector goes up to the north for christmas shopping.

segaBOY

seamus wrote: »

Whatever you get paid, it's still time away from your family and friends, bunking with other people and effectively living in a barracks.
Salary-wise the Gardai is attractive now, because it's safe and pensionable. But before people's jobs were at risk, you have to *want* to be a Garda to consider it as a career choice.

The salary scales are black and white on the GRA website. That is the career you choose but it is not confined to one having to "*want* to be a Garda to consider it as a career choice.".

A similar example is my cousin, he's an Army Officer-he has been living in a barracks away from home for 3 years now-but he doesn't necessarily fully *want* to be in the Army. This was before people were losing their jobs.

Remuneration is certainly a massive part of it. He put it like this to me "I can either work in a factory for some US multinational for €25k a year tomorrow morning or I can join the Army and earn €36k after 16 months of training". Less than 2 years after being commissioned he's on €55k with allowances.

Money is a massive factor and that's the bottom line for many (not all) Gardaí, hence why they are considering industrial action over pay reductions.

super_furry

Any Garda that goes on strike should lose their job. It's illegal for them to strike and if they flagrantly break the law by doing so, then they're not fit to do their jobs.

Rookster

Any of the Gardai that I know would be lucky to get any sort of job in the private sector.They are already overpaid for what they do and this is before the perks. I know half a dozen of them fairly well and each one has at least three houses. One of them has six houses and he is only in the force 12 years. Poor public servants.

dan_d

Imagine someone coming out of a room and saying "that's what you're getting".
Except.....that's exactly what happened to us last month.Director enters room "people we need you take a 5% paycut from Jan. There'll be a letter in the post".
And that was it.
You got benchmarking to keep you in line with the private sector. Now you get the paycuts to keep you in line with the private sector. It's how it's done everywhere else, regardless of what you do all day.

cassette50

It's a direct threat against the State..but we have to remember how poorly they are treated, such as:

Paid to polish their shoes
Paid to clean and iron their cloths
Paid extra when on holidays because they cannot avail of overtime
Paid extra when working in a rural location because they cannot avail of overtime
Paid extra for office duties

The list could go on but i think you get the picture!

eoinbn

They will probably stop issuing speeding tickets...

population

So the Gardai are going to break the law

Nothing new there so..........

Rob67

jon1981 wrote: »

what like all 900 of them? would make f*ck all difference

That would be including the Reserves (RDF), which would be made up largely of Private/ Public Sector workers, students and so on, who may not get time off work/ college to be used. In reality there are very few PDF MP's to be had, unfortunately.

segaBOY wrote: »

Them and higher ranking Gardaí who would be called in. It wouldn't be to the same level of policing but you have to make do in times of emergency.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pay-restraint-gives-garda-the-blue-flu-1162089.html

The Blue flu had very little impact in real terms, the Defence Forces were on standby and remained that way for the period and were never actually used. It was a total pain in the ass that day.


Besides, it would never come to that anyway, and it is really a pointless exercise to be even considered feasible.

Husqvarna

I think we should forget about the Military Police to begin with. As mentioned earlier they do not have the resources to police the state in lieu of the Gardai.

Secondly, I suspect that this is proposed ballot is the unions using the GRA to heap pressure on the Govt after the collapse of their recent talks.

I for one think that all right-minded Gardai (like some of the earlier posters) will resist this move. Not only is it morally indefensible, but it is also illegal. I think the GRA will lose any support it may have by following this path. There comes a time when the Gardai and more particularly the GRA have to realise that pay cuts are the new reality. It's common knowledge that Gardai are well paid, and now some of that is going to be clawed back given the state of the public finances.

I don't really know what the GRA is looking to achieve from this, but if as someone mentioned earlier the right to negotiate with Govt, I suspect that there are better ways of going about it. Also, the GRA allows the Gardai to negotiate with Govt on pay and conditions, does it not? Was that not what it was set up for?

gent9662

cassette50 wrote: »

It's a direct threat against the State..but we have to remember how poorly they are treated, such as:

Paid to polish their shoes
Paid to clean and iron their cloths
Paid extra when on holidays because they cannot avail of overtime
Paid extra when working in a rural location because they cannot avail of overtime
Paid extra for office duties

The list could go on but i think you get the picture!

....
Paid for attending football matches
Paid for commuting into their jobs
Paid in a defined benefit pension
Paid for doing sweet FA.

gent9662

Just heard a good one there.....

Garda Representative Association:

We have given our lives...now they take our livelihood

Isn't it a bit over dramatic when the normal Garda sits in an office eating ginger nut biscuits and surfing the web in their free garda clothes and boots!

Rob67

segaBOY wrote: »

The salary scales are black and white on the GRA website. That is the career you choose but it is not confined to one having to "*want* to be a Garda to consider it as a career choice.".

A similar example is my cousin, he's an Army Officer-he has been living in a barracks away from home for 3 years now-but he doesn't necessarily fully *want* to be in the Army. This was before people were losing their jobs.

Remuneration is certainly a massive part of it. He put it like this to me "I can either work in a factory for some US multinational for €25k a year tomorrow morning or I can join the Army and earn €36k after 16 months of training". Less than 2 years after being commissioned he's on €55k with allowances.

Money is a massive factor and that's the bottom line for many (not all) Gardaí, hence why they are considering industrial action over pay reductions.

Cool, He made top of the 8 year scale in the Naval Service while serving in the Army in only two years, hell of a guy. Let me guess, he is going to be Chief of Staff in another four?

Officer pay scales:

http://www.military.ie/careers/booklets/Cadet%20Booklet%202009%20(update).pdf

I think your leg was being pulled. :D:D

Rob67

Husqvarna wrote: »

I think we should forget about the Military Police to begin with. As mentioned earlier they do not have the resources to police the state in lieu of the Gardai.

Secondly, I suspect that this is proposed ballot is the unions using the GRA to heap pressure on the Govt after the collapse of their recent talks.

I for one think that all right-minded Gardai (like some of the earlier posters) will resist this move. Not only is it morally indefensible, but it is also illegal. I think the GRA will lose any support it may have by following this path. There comes a time when the Gardai and more particularly the GRA have to realise that pay cuts are the new reality. It's common knowledge that Gardai are well paid, and now some of that is going to be clawed back given the state of the public finances.

I don't really know what the GRA is looking to achieve from this, but if as someone mentioned earlier the right to negotiate with Govt, I suspect that there are better ways of going about it. Also, the GRA allows the Gardai to negotiate with Govt on pay and conditions, does it not? Was that not what it was set up for?

+1

gent9662

Rob67 wrote: »

+1

Yes similar to the GPA in GAA terms!

Husqvarna

super_furry wrote: »

Any Garda that goes on strike should lose their job. It's illegal for them to strike and if they fragrantly break the law by doing so, then they're not fit to do their jobs.

A nice splash of aftershave before they head off with their placards.:D

Sorry, couldn't resist.

kumate_champ07

ceret wrote: »

Isn't it illegal for the Gardaí to strike... I'm sure the guards will prosecute themselves for that breech of the law. :P

maybe members of the public should find them all and make citizens arrests, if they cant show that they are genuinely sick then they should be prosecuted.

I think also that having all the different careers bunched into one in this situation is ridiculous as some people get full pensions 10years before others, the army(and I think the gardai too) can retire around 50yrs old and go on and do other work while getting paid a full pension

Husqvarna

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

I think also that having all the different careers bunched into one in this situation is ridiculous as some people get full pensions 10years before others, the army(and I think the gardai too) can retire around 50yrs old and go on and do other work while getting paid a full pension

The Gardai and Army retire early as there's a physical aspect to their job I suspect. 65-year old guard isn't of much use on the beat late at night. I'm sure most would prefer to stay on until normal retirement age, but this early retirement is mandatory for them. I know I'd prefer to be earning full pay at 50 rather than be on a much-reduced pension.

Rookster

dclane wrote: »

....

Paid for attending football matches
Paid for commuting into their jobs
Paid in a defined benefit pension
Paid for doing sweet FA.

Free meals in restaurants
Free drinks in pubs
Free entry to nightclubs
Free entry to matches (when off duty)

All of the above I have witnessed first hand.

kumate_champ07

Husqvarna wrote: »

The Gardai and Army retire early as there's a physical aspect to their job I suspect.

a nurse has a more physically challenging job than a garda.

not all of the army are out running 10miles a day, some sit at a desk all day. they dont have to pay vat on their booze on the curragh camp as far as I recall, I was at a 21st a while ago and couldnt believe the price of a pint.

I remember when I was working in a warehouse a 50yr old ex army man was doing the same job and told he his job in the army was a 'handy number', he was getting a pension and a full weeks wages

kumate_champ07

seamus wrote: »

During the boom, people didn't think long-term. In 2002/2003, an 18-year-old leaving school could easily walk onto a building site and earn €22k or more pretty much instantly, increasing very rapidly, and generally living the life of reilly. Anyone with a trade was in high demand and could earn €30k before they'd even finished training. In the Gardai on the other hand, you'd have to spend two years in Templemore before starting on a salary of €25k possibly in a station a long way from home.

when your in construction you retire at 50 because of your body giving up, and you dont have a pension. bad back, knees, maybe even bad lungs. it can be a very dangerous job and very physically demanding. working outside in all kinds of weather.

nurses have to go to college for 3+ years, long hours studying and part time jobs on the side to pay their way, gardai can go into paid training straight from leaving cert

Mr.Micro

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

gardai can go into paid training straight from leaving cert

Unfortunately it shows. The Gardai is not the most sophisticated police force.

gent9662

kumate_champ07 wrote: »

a nurse has a more physically challenging job than a garda.

not all of the army are out running 10miles a day, some sit at a desk all day. they dont have to pay vat on their booze on the curragh camp as far as I recall, I was at a 21st a while ago and couldnt believe the price of a pint.

I remember when I was working in a warehouse a 50yr old ex army man was doing the same job and told he his job in the army was a 'handy number', he was getting a pension and a full weeks wages

So, let's sum up as to why the Gardai feel they should go on strike, the equation is something like this:

Good wages + Good Overtime + Abundance of holidays + Free uniform and boots + garda pension when working another job + free food, travel, entry to clubs + benchmarking + job security + tax free entitlements + entry to matches and sporting events + small pay cut

= Strike!

Makes perfect sense.

Darragh29

I think we need to take a step back here and look at what is happening when the Gardai are threatening to go on strike.

If we have those that are supposed to enforce and uphold the law of the land, deciding to openly break the law of the land, then I think what we are looking at here is potentially a complete cessataion of the operation of normal society.

Gardai are allowed to protest, they are allowed to attend a picket as part of a protest, what they are not allowed to do, for very good reason, is to withdraw their labour as part of that protest.

Gardai are not on top of crime in this country on a good day when they are all working, so I would worry what will happen if they all decide to go on strike, the country would erupt in a wave of crime, in the knowledge that there is not the capacity there to deal with an outbreak of petty crime, such as house break-in's, etc...

How will the single mother of two, living on 240 Euro a week in state benefit, feel when she looks out her window and she see's anti-social behaviour going on outside her house and she goes to call the local Garda station but she realises that her local Garda on 1,207.24 Euro a week, is protesting because he or she had to take a paycut???

Source: http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

gent9662

Darragh29 wrote: »

I think we need to take a step back here and look at what is happening when the Gardai are threatening to go on strike.

If we have those that are supposed to enforce and uphold the law of the land, deciding to openly break the law of the land, then I think what we are looking at here is potentially a complete cessataion of the operation of normal society.

Gardai are allowed to protest, they are allowed to attend a picket as part of a protest, what they are not allowed to do, for very good reason, is to withdraw their labour as part of that protest.

Gardai are not on top of crime in this country on a good day when they are all working, so I would worry what will happen if they all decide to go on strike, the country would erupt in a wave of crime, in the knowledge that there is not the capacity there to deal with an outbreak of petty crime, such as house break-in's, etc...

How will the single mother of two, living on 240 Euro a week in state benefit, feel when she looks out her window and she see's anti-social behaviour going on outside her house and she goes to call the local Garda station but she realises that her local Garda on 1,207.24 Euro a week, is protesting because he or she had to take a paycut???

Source: http://www.cso.ie/quicktables/GetQuickTables.aspx?FileName=PSA01.asp&TableName=Public+Sector+Average+Weekly+Earnings&StatisticalProduct=DB_PS

The highest paid public service sector according to that chart. That's unbelievable! the cheek of them!

Darragh29

The way to deal with this threat of disobedience is to look at how the army deal with discipline...

I used to be in the army, if you break regulations, you are tried under miltary law in the first instance. You don't get a call from the Garda and end up in front of a civil judge who will look favourably on you if you are not standing in front of him in a tracksuit.

You are arrested by the military police pursuant to provisions available under military law, you are brought in handcuffs into custody in the Curragh or a barracks in Dublin somewhere, you appear in front of a military tribunal and you will be discharged if you are deemed to have brought the force into disrepute, which means you are out of a job.

Then you are handed over to the Gardai if there is a criminal case to answer under criminal law, (as distinct from military law), in the event of someone being assaulted or whatever.

segaBOY

Rob67 wrote: »

Cool, He made top of the 8 year scale in the Naval Service while serving in the Army in only two years, hell of a guy. Let me guess, he is going to be Chief of Staff in another four?

Officer pay scales:

http://www.military.ie/careers/booklets/Cadet%20Booklet%202009%20(update).pdf

I think your leg was being pulled. :D:D

They are round figures but he is an Engineer by profession and after his cadetship (he didn't use direct entry) he served in one unit before being transferred to another specific to his profession. He got tech pay for that. And I am including allowances in that.

Edit: Since he already received an honours degree outside of the Army he was appointed full Lieutenant after his Cadetship. With Tech pay and allowances it makes up roughly €55k.

Rob67

Husqvarna wrote: »

The Gardai and Army retire early as there's a physical aspect to their job I suspect. 65-year old guard isn't of much use on the beat late at night. I'm sure most would prefer to stay on until normal retirement age, but this early retirement is mandatory for them. I know I'd prefer to be earning full pay at 50 rather than be on a much-reduced pension.

Amen to that! I left the Army this year, to date, I have dislocated both shoulders, busted both my knees (multiple operations), collapsed vertebrae and arthritis after 22 years service. There are similar stories for a lot of my former colleagues. The Army has a mandatory retirement age of 60 for enlisted.

BTW, aren't we going a bit off topic?

collieh86

being neither aligned to public sector or private sector and falling on the wrong side of the law once to many i find it funny how much the private sector seem to bad mouth the garda and assume they know how and why they do their job yet the public sector dont seem to have fallen to badly into the trap set by the goverment to turn the two sectors on each other. i havent seen much of the public sector bad mouthing the private sector for the way in which the earn their money. havin spent some time in a station sober to be exact it was amazin wat the gards dealt with let alone havin to put up wit me acting the bollox. i dont love the gards by any means but lads get off your arses and see the **** they put up wit. u might be suprised

Husqvarna

Rob67 wrote: »

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BTW, aren't we going a bit off topic?

Agreed, way off topic. This is a very dangerous situation we face. The Gardai cannot be allowed to threaten the citizens of the state in this way. Public confidence in the Gardai was badly damaged in 1998 when they took "blue flu", this action will destroy their reputation as a disciplined uniformed force. If we cannot trust the police then civil society is in risk of being lost to us. We will be no better than a third world country.

I would urge all Gardai to think long and hard about the consequences of any unauthorised industrial action. If they cannot be trusted then it may be time to go back to the drawing board regarding Garda representation.