Definition of the term 'Vegetarian' aka pesky 'Pescetarians'

sweet-rasmus

Doolee wrote: »

Maybe its a subconscious thing...cause the forum is for Vegans and Vegetarians...maybe mods should include Pescatarians!

The list may go on and on. Those allergic to eggs and those allergic/intolerant to dairy and also very welcome here for advice

smegmar

as I understand the argument of "paskies" it is because fish do not have a developed nervous system and cannot process pain or fear in the same way other animals do. Irregardless I think every sentient being has a survival instinct and shouldn't be killed on mass to feed people. We have developed far beyond the point where that is necessary. We can feed the entire population of the planet on a healthy diet with out meat or fish.

damselnat

This is one of those things that really gets on my tits.....I visited a few friends across the water over the summer, explained to them before I went that I was vegetarian, when I showed up they had bought a week's supply of fish for me! Ensuing a rather embarrassed me explaining to my just as mortified friend that I'm vegetarian, and don't eatanything that was once alive.....I just don't get it myself, even my mother will say "But there are some vegetarians who eat fish" and just refuses to get it when I protest that they are not really vegetarian but pescetarian....
Even my brother, who is a steadfast carnivore, gets irked by it, he'll say to aforementioned mother that "fish is still flesh"

Personally I don't understand why people would automatically assume that if you're veggie you eat fish?? To my mind it wold work the other way round, if you're veggie you don't eat anything that was once conscious, and then there are few people who just don't eat meat??

Mellor

smegmar wrote: »

as I understand the argument of "paskies" it is because fish do not have a developed nervous system and cannot process pain or fear in the same way other animals do.

Thats the arguement. Didn't know that. I would of assumed fish felt pain.
They obvious feel fear as they flee from predators. And Sharks have one of the most complex nervous systems on the planet.

Irregardless...........

This word annoys me.:o:o:o:o;)

fillefatale

Ah here lets get it right, I hate when people declare they are "vegetarians" ... that eat fish!! Theres a definition for what diet you adhere to, use it!! Its the reason why, when I go to less-educated (country restaurants usually, and I'm a 'culchie') and I ask if they have a veggie option (usually in their carvery, so no) "Do ye eat fish?" :mad:

smegmar

Mellor wrote: »

And Sharks have one of the most complex nervous systems on the planet.

I think sharks are in a different category


as I understand it what many "paskies" use is the example of while a fish is caught on a hook he will pull away, causing great damage to himself because he has no sense of pain, this is why the do not follow the pull of the fishing line.

not sure how true that is but it's just what I've heard. Anyway dam Paskies are ruining it for we true vegetarians, so stop calling yourselves vegetarians

Tar.Aldarion

Mellor wrote: »

Thats the arguement. Didn't know that. I would of assumed fish felt pain.
They obvious feel fear as they flee from predators. And Sharks have one of the most complex nervous systems on the planet.


This word annoys me.:o:o:o:o;)

smegmar wrote: »

I think sharks are in a different category


as I understand it what many "paskies" use is the example of while a fish is caught on a hook he will pull away, causing great damage to himself because he has no sense of pain, this is why the do not follow the pull of the fishing line.

not sure how true that is but it's just what I've heard. Anyway dam Paskies are ruining it for we true vegetarians, so stop calling yourselves vegetarians

'I find it highly unlikely a species would evolve to not feel pain, as it is an important feature for survival. It is not a matter of whether things feel pain, but their ranging abilities to do so. Certainly fish wouldn' have all the features of the brain that we do, yet they are more similar than you think, nervous system wise.There is no doubt a continuum between species of how much pain a particular species can feel, this continuum will even continue within the same species, but obviously with very small differences in capability. So you and I may be able to possibly experience different capability to feel pain, but the difference is minute, this difference will be bigger among other species, but they will still feel pain, suffering etc

If one is brainstem based, as oppossed to cerebral based nervous system, it doesn't mean one does not feel pain I would imagine...
What is pain if not reacting to stimulus due to our nerves? Of course it is pyschological reactions too. The question is not do fish simply feel pain through their nociceptions(pain receptors) because they do(in fact I think they are more sensitive than us in this regard and they have very similar pain receptors to us. This is because we are less easily damaged so we don't need as low a voltage/ high a pain response), but do they pyschologically feel it like us. Many species have very different nerve systems and cognitive capabilities. To conclusively test whether a fish feels pain pyschologically, tests like the following are done, this just being a simple example. You take two animals, in this case fish, and drug one with a pain reductor. You do something like hit them, soemthing that should cause that species pain. Then, they both react the same as any of us would, swimming away or whatever. A natural instinct. The difference is, the one that was not drugged and therefore could possibly feel pain pyschologically is wary in the future, exhibits fear etc, it is maintaining knowledge of what happened to it and that it hurt, the same thing we do. You can't tell from reactions alone if something feels but behavioural and physiological changes are a good basis. This is why people now think fish definitely feel pain. Of course there are a lot of other tests and things to consider, neural monitoring and so on, which are also done. And the more we learn about animals the more there will be to think about grey areas such as this. I've even seen some study regarding fish eavesdropping on other shoals to gather information. :S


That word annoys me too Mellor.

henryporter

As if things weren't bad enough: http://www.livescience.com/animals/090430-fish-feel-pain-too.html: inflicting pain on fish to determine if they feel it.....

Dozen Wicked Words

Re OP, I think people who eat fish can call themselves what they like, what difference does it make to me? None is the answer.

Regardless of what they call themselves, when I am in a restaurant, people will still presume I eat fish or suggest it as a vegetarian meal. Big swing.

Whispered

I've never been in a restaurant where they would not accommodate me if I didn't like the veggie option so saying that you eat fish when you are out if you don't like the veggie option is a bit of an excuse IMO.

Vegetarians who don't have a problem with eating fish when out, then they are not vegetarian. Regardless of their reasons for eating or not eating fish or meat.

While peskies who call themselves veggie do annoy me, what also annoys me is the amount of times I have had to send back various "veggie" foods which have been covered in paremsan cheese. Apparently many veggies only avoid meat that they can't see. If it's hidden well enough, a lot don't care. The only reason this annoys me is because when you send food back due to it not being strictly veggie, people look at you like you're a pain in the ass. Fussy, choosy and OTT, because the "vegetarian" that they had served earlier in the day ate both fish and parmesan, probably followed by jelly for dessert.:rolleyes:

I'm trying to book a wedding ATM, one place tried to tell me that I would have to pay extra per veggie meal to remove the non veggie cheese as it's part of the chefs recipe. So yes sometimes it can be a big deal.

smegmar wrote: »

as I understand it what many "paskies" use is the example of while a fish is caught on a hook he will pull away, causing great damage to himself because he has no sense of pain, this is why the do not follow the pull of the fishing line.

But there have been incidents of animals caught in traps eating off their own limbs to escape. I could be wrong but is it just that the survival instinct is stronger than pain reflexes I'd imagine?

sweet-rasmus

helena.ryan wrote: »

I'm trying to book a wedding ATM, one place tried to tell me that I would have to pay extra per veggie meal to remove the non veggie cheese as it's part of the chefs recipe. So yes sometimes it can be a big deal.

that's crazy! if anything i would have thought the meat is what costs more when choosing between the meals.

Whispered

it is, it's costing extra for a meat/fish choice which is fine. They provide a set veggie option too, the veggie recipe has parmesan in it. When I said I would like that but without the cheese, she said no problem and proceeded to add 1.50 per head (to ALL guests) when I queried it, it was because I was asking the chef to deviate from his set veggie options and only the set options were included in the price. :eek:The fact that it's not vegetarian didn't seem to phase her.

Needless to say the place was taken off my "maybe" list.

sweet-rasmus

good god. some people just don't get it!

fillefatale

helena.ryan wrote: »

I'm trying to book a wedding ATM, one place tried to tell me that I would have to pay extra per veggie meal to remove the non veggie cheese as it's part of the chefs recipe. So yes sometimes it can be a big deal.

So they are charging you extra to remove an ingredient from a dish, which would reduce the amount of ingredients used in the dish, therefore affecting the cost? Chancers!!!

rubadub

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

I know a pescetarian who, defines his diet as "I don't eat anything that loves it's kids". He hates the term 'pescetarian', though.

Why does he hate it? does he also hate the term vegetarian (i.e. is it something to do with labelling himself)

IzzyWizzy wrote: »

Really? Really? I'm not being smart but I thought it was a common enough word, at least to read. I'd be shocked if a child over 8 didn't know what it meant, let alone an adult.

It is not common at all, I expect you would not know many words which are second nature to me due to my interests, I would not presume you to either. Right now I am looking at a big red line under the word as it is not in the spelling dictionary on my PC. I never heard it growing up, and now I can understand why -if this is true

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pescetarianism

The Merriam-Webster dictionary dates the origin of the term "pescetarian" to 1993 and defines it to mean: "one whose diet includes fish but no meat."

The Vegetarian Society, which initiated popular use of the term vegetarian as early as 1847

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

If the term, "pescetarian", was more familiar to people, then they might use it instead. But since it's not in common parlance, I can see someone describing themselves as "pescetarian" as being seen as a little bit up themselves, this being Ireland and all that.

I think this could be the case, as with any newly coined words/terms. People might not want to sound pretentious or appear to be a sort of pseudo intellectual condescending type using a big fancy word possibly in the hope the person will not know what it means and make them appear ignorant or lacking their amazing vocabulary. A simple way would be to say "I am a pescetarian" immediately followed by "so basically I eat only fish & vegetarian food". This would tell people what it means and also separate the term fish & "vegetarian food". Only fear then would be that you are patronizing, but I doubt it.

damselnat wrote: »

Personally I don't understand why people would automatically assume that if you're veggie you eat fish?? To my mind it wold work the other way round,

Perhaps in the past they have met more people who claimed to be vegetarians who ate fish than vice versa. It is a strange assumption though, even if this is the case, since if you offer a true vegetarian meal to a pescetarian there is no issue.

fillefatale wrote: »

So they are charging you extra to remove an ingredient from a dish, which would reduce the amount of ingredients used in the dish, therefore affecting the cost?

I think its the economies of scale involved (no pun intended!)

Doolee

Some guys at work mentioned they were vegetarian and I mentioned that I was pescatarian (in an effort not to use the word vegetarian) and they never heard of the word, didnt know what it was and laughed at it!

Doolee

Doolee wrote: »

Some guys at work mentioned they were vegetarian and I mentioned that I was pescatarian (in an effort not to use the word vegetarian) and they never heard of the word, didnt know what it was and laughed at it!

Were they Irish?
What was the laughing about?

I had to explain the concept of vegetarianism alot back in the dark days.
Yes chicken and ham still count as meat. Really. I'm not just being awkward. lol.
Eventually you'll get there Doolee!

Mellor

helena.ryan wrote: »

While peskies who call themselves veggie do annoy me, what also annoys me is the amount of times I have had to send back various "veggie" foods which have been covered in paremsan cheese.

to be hoenst, I think thats one that people, who aren't veggie, don't know about or easily forget.

Tar.Aldarion

Have had to send back tuna the odd time, nothing more than that really

Doolee

Moonbaby wrote: »

Were they Irish?
What was the laughing about?

I had to explain the concept of vegetarianism alot back in the dark days.
Yes chicken and ham still count as meat. Really. I'm not just being awkward. lol.
Eventually you'll get there Doolee!

Yeah they are irish...I guess its just a funny word...tis really! But youre right, dammit I will get there...and educate the country, inch by inch!:P