Nurse gone mad!

wheresthebeef

I've been driven to start a blog about public servants, in particular, Nurses being made to feel guilty for working in the public service. I may have gone a bit mad, but i'm at my wits end with frustration at people trying to make me feel guilty for earning my wage working for the HSE. Feel free to check it out www.nursewave.info

Dave
The Angry Nurse

liberal

If the HSE was a computer a good belt of alt + ctrl + delt would be called for

Sleipnir

It's the management, administration and bureaucracy in HSE that I disagree with, not the front line staff.

wyrn

The media have alot to answer for in vilifying the pulib sector. They are helping enlarge the gulf between the public and private sector.

Both sectors have their ups and downs. We're all in an economic mess and pointing the finger at one group will not solve anything.

I've a friend who is I mean was a teacher but she couldn't get a fixed contract. I believe it's very difficult to get a full time contract anywhere.

Having friends and family in nursing I feel your frustration. Another frustration they have is the lack of staff. Since the embargo many positions haven't been filled which has caused wards to close (one hospital in particular comes to mind), which means less patients and surgeries. The HSE is in a shambles.

Keep in there OP. Thanks for your service. I for one would not be able for it.

bleg

Sorry, all the public sector will have to take a pay cut, starting with those at the top, who get cut the most and finishing at the bottom who will be cut the least.

imported_guy

join a better union/ work at a private hospital = profit

im actully p'd off at my lectuerers 2 weeks till the exams and they picket the library doors, state of em, they r doing it again on thursday, and some students actully started shouting abuse at them, because none of the lecturers protested for the fees, and yet they expect us to "respect the picket"

mikemac

I am a registered professional with responsibility for the lives of people every day.

Do you have that responsibility? Are you administering drugs on your own?
That's a lot of pressure for raw graduates.

If the pressure is too much can't you call your supervisor or even a doctor?
It is a lot of responsibility. Maybe nurses are doing too much

imported_guy

mikemac wrote: »

Do you have that responsibility? Are you administering drugs on your own?
That's a lot of pressure for raw graduates.

If the pressure is too much can't you call your supervisor or even a doctor?
It is a lot of responsibility. Maybe nurses are doing too much

yeah in america nurses can be sued for malpractice etc, and do administer drugs (under the supervision *wink* of doctors), but i find it hard to believe you only earn 31k, how much do you earn over time?, that may be your basic pay but youre over time pay will mean your earning baller cash

sam34

imported_guy wrote: »

yeah in america nurses can be sued for malpractice etc, and do administer drugs (under the supervision *wink* of doctors), but i find it hard to believe you only earn 31k, how much do you earn over time?, that may be your basic pay but youre over time pay will mean your earning baller cash

nurses here administer drugs all the time,without supervision. thats a basic nursing duty,i dont see what the nudge-nudge-wink-wink is all about .

what people seem to fail to grasp about overtime is that it is earned on top of a normal working week. it is not earned for fun,or easily. it is earned at the expense of your personal,family and social life. at times,it is earned at the expense of your own health.

it irks me that the hse pr people will release figures like "junior docs earn 100k in overtime" without mentioning the horrendous and dangerous hours required to earn anywhere near that sort of money.

DrIndy

It is shocking. As a medical colleague of whereisthebeef, I completely sympathise and support his views, this is something universal across the health service.

Allied health (physio/nutrition/speech/OT) were always initially hired on temporary contracts which would be withdrawn at a whim. 3 years ago - even before this recession, physios were unemployed in ireland whilst the system was cracking with a lack of rehab faciltities!

Its a shambles.

JuliusCaesar

wheresthebeef wrote: »

I've been driven to start a blog about public servants, in particular, Nurses being made to feel guilty for working in the public service. I may have gone a bit mad, but i'm at my wits end with frustration at people trying to make me feel guilty for earning my wage working for the HSE. Feel free to check it out www.nursewave.info

Dave
The Angry Nurse

Well said!

krankykitty

Hear Hear! Great points well made.

nesf

Nurse pay needs to drop not because it's fair or just but because the country can't afford the current public sector pay bill. So we either cut jobs or cut wages in the short term and in the medium term look towards restructuring the pay public services are delivered.

Pay needs to be cut, or hours cut. Either achieves the same outcome.

Tree

Cutting front line staff affects services, ALL services

nesf

Tree wrote: »

Cutting front line staff affects services, ALL services

Sure, cutting the pay of front line staff doesn't though. Also, we may be forced into cutting front line staff if the fiscal situation doesn't improve.

Dozen Wicked Words

nesf wrote: »

Sure, cutting the pay of front line staff doesn't though. Also, we may be forced into cutting front line staff if the fiscal situation doesn't improve.

We are already cutting front line staff, nurses are already losing jobs. Beds are being closed, less nurses are needed to cover the ward, they are on temporary contracts which are not renewed. Numbers of Doctors are being reduced in teams, less interns are being taken on/trained in hospitals.

nesf

dooferoaks wrote: »

We are already cutting front line staff, nurses are already losing jobs. Beds are being closed, less nurses are needed to cover the ward, they are on temporary contracts which are not renewed. Numbers of Doctors are being reduced in teams, less interns are being taken on/trained in hospitals.

Full time staff haven't been left go though, just "temporary"/contract staff no?

Tree

Temp/contract staff account for far more of the health service than you'd think. They're the lads that allow backlogs to be caught up on, full time wise the hse is understaffed on the front line

nesf

Tree wrote: »

Temp/contract staff account for far more of the health service than you'd think. They're the lads that allow backlogs to be caught up on, full time wise the hse is understaffed on the front line

Oh, I fully appreciate. More that we have two public sectors, one with guaranteed jobs (kinda) and one with temp/contract staff with far fewer benefits etc. Hiring of the latter is mostly because of how difficult it is to reduce numbers of the former as well as the costs of the benefits they've got, pensions etc.

wheresthebeef

mikemac wrote: »

Do you have that responsibility? Are you administering drugs on your own?
That's a lot of pressure for raw graduates.

If the pressure is too much can't you call your supervisor or even a doctor?
It is a lot of responsibility. Maybe nurses are doing too much

Yes, unfortunately the way things are at present there is little time to "take it easy" on the newly qualified staff. And due to the nature of the temporary contracts, a lot of wards are not actually aware that you're new, they just see someone in a blue tunic with nurse on it, and put you to work. You can of course notify you're supervisor, but their hands are tied, so really all you're doing is ensuring that you're employer is vicariously liable should something go wrong. Nurses and Doctors are part of separate operational management structures within the hospital, so staff levels of either profession are not usually a concern of the other, except for informally.

imported_guy wrote: »

yeah in america nurses can be sued for malpractice etc, and do administer drugs (under the supervision *wink* of doctors), but i find it hard to believe you only earn 31k, how much do you earn over time?, that may be your basic pay but youre over time pay will mean your earning baller cash

I might get a further 4k in premium pay, that is sundays and nights. There is no overtime in my service. It's completely banned.

mikemac

I have to lift, turn, roll, slide and support patients as heavy as 30 stone even though at the age of 22 I can feel my back muscles becoming damaged and torn.

Strenght has nothing to do with turning over a patient. The weakest nurse can turn over the heaviest patient.
I saw this on a first aid course when the fire service demonstrated.
It's not about strenght but about technique.

If you've not done manual handling, demand a course from management

imported_guy

mikemac wrote: »

Cover thy ass
On another note, I've no concept of how junior doctors make correct decision on a hundred hour week :eek:

depends on where you work, one junior doctor may be working his butt off the 100 hours, if he has admissions lined up 24/7 (highly unlikely, doesnt happen often that your on your feet for the 24 hours on call), another one might be "working" a 100 hours but sleeping alot of them off if there are no admissions etc, they still get paid because they are "on call" and have to wake up if a call comes, and be ready.

imported_guy

mikemac wrote: »

Well I'm basing the 100 hour week off a show I saw back in 2005 or 2006 on four doctors in St. Vincents. You may have seen it on RTÉ
I've no idea how they managed it as raw graduates

But anyway the OP is a nurse so back ontopic

nurses do hardcore work as well, some nurses work harder than some doctors, and still have to make crucial decisions, depends on speciality, if the doctor is handling multiple cases at one time, like code/cardiac arrest etc nurses have to step their game up.

Pete4779

nesf wrote: »

Full time staff haven't been left go though, just "temporary"/contract staff no?

FWIW, all NCHDs/junior doctors work on 6 month temporary contracts.

imported_guy

Pete4779 wrote: »

FWIW, all NCHDs/junior doctors work on 6 month temporary contracts.

EU rules say, if you get 4 consequtive (6 month) contracts at the same hospital, if your hospital wants to hire you for a 5th contract, that 5th contract must be indefinate.


dont wana flood the page with the pic, so check this link for the source.
<snip>

good luck if youre striking on thursday, im pretty neutral about it, its everyone's right to strike, but i just think there isnt much to be gained from it, the government is probably rubbing their hands with all the cash they are saving, and its affecting colleges etc badly because the xmas exams are comming soon, any idea what happens if the negotiations fall even after thursday?

nesf

Pete4779 wrote: »

FWIW, all NCHDs/junior doctors work on 6 month temporary contracts.

Yeah, but it's all of them. Very, very different to where you've one group on permanent contracts and one group of staff on temporary contracts with different benefits/pay rates between the two.

Though, often from reading this forum there seems to be a disconnect between the interests of doctors with permanent contracts and NCHDs/junior doctors on IMO threads, though I don't know much about this myself or whether the situation has improved.

sam34

imported_guy wrote: »

depends on where you work, one junior doctor may be working his butt off the 100 hours, if he has admissions lined up 24/7 (highly unlikely, doesnt happen often that your on your feet for the 24 hours on call), another one might be "working" a 100 hours but sleeping alot of them off if there are no admissions etc, they still get paid because they are "on call" and have to wake up if a call comes, and be ready.

:eek::eek:

my god, this statement is incredibly inaccurate. talk to a representative sample of junior docs and you'll get an idea of how much of an on-call period they are working for, and get to sleep for:rolleyes:

working on call is not restricted to doing admissions, you are also reviewing patients in A&E and sending them home, as well as reviewing those that are already in-patients and who are unwell. its not just about clerking in new admissions.

i have seen people get severly dehydrated, get hypoglycaemic and collapse because in their shift not only have they not had time to "sleep off the hours" , they havent had time to eat or drink. it's happened to me on occasion. ive no doubt others here will have had similar (or worse) experiences.

sam34

imported_guy wrote: »

EU rules say, if you get 4 consequtive (6 month) contracts at the same hospital, if your hospital wants to hire you for a 5th contract, that 5th contract must be indefinate.

very often however, junior doctors are rotated between hospitals to avoid this happening.

i've been the NCHD rep at rotation allocation meetings many times, and teh HSE have always always sent a medical manpower rep along to give details on exactly how long people have been at that site, and when /if they need to be moved etc

sam34

imported_guy wrote: »

nurses do hardcore work as well, some nurses work harder than some doctors, and still have to make crucial decisions, depends on speciality, if the doctor is handling multiple cases at one time, like code/cardiac arrest etc nurses have to step their game up.

em, you think that if there are two arrests running simultaneously, the nurses will "step their game up" and run one of them?
No they wont.

(Im not getting at nurses, btw, im just saying that they wont do this. its not their job)

Angrybastard

I'm a HSE social care worker. A couple of years ago, a colleague recieved her pay cheque which was incorrect. She was young and temporary and was unsure what to do. I phoned payroll and what had happend was THE WOMAN WHO READ THE FIGURES OUT TO THE OTHER WOMAN WHO WROTE THEM DOWN had made a mistake. That's right folks, two people to transcibe figures from one sheet to another. The problem and wastage is not frontline staff.

Narkius Maximus

dooferoaks wrote: »

We are already cutting front line staff, nurses are already losing jobs. Beds are being closed, less nurses are needed to cover the ward, they are on temporary contracts which are not renewed. Numbers of Doctors are being reduced in teams, less interns are being taken on/trained in hospitals.

I'm sorry we are actually training more medica students than ever before, the number of NCHD posts have actually increased up until quite recently. However e are now in a situation where the HSE has brought into force suppression of 2 NCHD posts for every new consultant position created. Ideally a consultant lead health service is to be created and the number of NCHD posts will continue to drop. My whole problem with this was who was going to do all the night time work? I couldn't envisage any of my bosses coming in a 3am to review some one who can't sleep!

I do agree we need a reduction in numbers of staff in HSE and other CS departments, but I'd want it to start with admin! They should be required to demonstrate their productivity, and if not up to scratch-goodbye!!!

The health service needs to change-but it shouldn't start with culling the healthcare professionals.

Prime Mover

sam34 wrote: »

my god, this statement is incredibly inaccurate.

This forum is turning into Imported Guy's Fantasy Medical WorldTM vs Reality

Narkius Maximus

Prime Mover wrote: »

This forum is turning into Imported Guy's Fantasy Medical WorldTM vs Reality

I completely agree-his posts are ridiculously inaccurate, scant of any true information.

Dr Galen

imported_guy wrote: »

depends on where you work, one junior doctor may be working his butt off the 100 hours, if he has admissions lined up 24/7 (highly unlikely, doesnt happen often that your on your feet for the 24 hours on call), another one might be "working" a 100 hours but sleeping alot of them off if there are no admissions etc, they still get paid because they are "on call" and have to wake up if a call comes, and be ready.

are you basing this statement on any type of experience? because as others have said, this is deffo not the case.

I've lost count of the amount of rescue cigarettes, cups of tea, chocolate, toast, hugs ( ) and in one case a bag of fluids, I've had to give to interns and others over on-call shifts, because the lads were about to drop.

Narkius Maximus

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

are you basing this statement on any type of experience? because as others have said, this is deffo not the case.

I've lost count of the amount of rescue cigarettes, cups of tea, chocolate, toast, hugs ( ) and in one case a bag of fluids, I've had to give to interns and others over on-call shifts, because the lads were about to drop.

They made it all worthwhile! Remember one place I worked-did a month of 1/3 call. Up all night every night in ED as only staff memeber in hospital. The ED nurses were so supportive-used to try catch a couple of mins kip in the trauma room (warmest place in the building) at a time waiting for results, xrays to come back. Care assistants would always ask me did I want a cup of tea, toast etc. The kindness of others really keeps you going.

The IV fluids were usually reserved for the days post extra curricular activities though!!!

JuliusCaesar

mikemac wrote: »

Strenght has nothing to do with turning over a patient. The weakest nurse can turn over the heaviest patient.
I saw this on a first aid course when the fire service demonstrated.
It's not about strenght but about technique.

If you've not done manual handling, demand a course from management

hi hi. this is hilarious. maybe nurses believe this too, and that's why so many of them end up with back problems.

mikemac wrote: »

It's not about strenght but about technique.

I was told this on a control-and-restraint course I was sent on. Size doesn't matter, we were told, and I (5'4") was teamed up with a guy who played GAA for his county (6' something - I couldn't see that high). Anyway, he was the "aggressive patient" and I launched myself at him in the prescribed manner, in order to restrain and control him. My head vanished into his armpit and my hands weren't big enough to circumscribe his wrists. We ended up in a heap laughing and the instructors stopped using the 'size doesn't matter' mantra for the rest of the course. They also gave me 'troublesome patients' who were smaller in size for the rest of the time.

drzhivago

imported_guy wrote: »

depends on where you work, one junior doctor may be working his butt off the 100 hours, if he has admissions lined up 24/7 (highly unlikely, doesnt happen often that your on your feet for the 24 hours on call), another one might be "working" a 100 hours but sleeping alot of them off if there are no admissions etc, they still get paid because they are "on call" and have to wake up if a call comes, and be ready.

You really have no clue and should stop posting about hypothetical situations because you have no experience of the reality of this

I have done this for over 15 years along with others who post here and your statements are so inaccurate as to almost lead me to believe you are some sort of HSE mole

Working 100 hours is unsafe fullstop

The HSE are trying to reduce hours where they can, why then would they have someone "sleeping" while they work in a hospital it just doesnt make sense

As regards your highly unlikely I used to work full weekends on call in my early days, Friday, Saturday, sunday and go home monday evening at 7pm, every 4th weekend, as well as the outline 8am-7pm week days and one on call the week you had the weekend as well

In teh year there I can remember two weekends where I didnt sleep, didnt eat for from Saturday night until monday morning because in that place there was no one to take blood at weekends and you had to do that job as well as staffing the casualty and seeing all the patients on the wards wasnt safe for me of for them. I am glad now getting older I dont work like that and people dont have to work like that as I would not like my family to have to rely on medical care like that

You should really confine your comments to something you actually know about

drzhivago

imported_guy wrote: »

nurses do hardcore work as well, some nurses work harder than some doctors, and still have to make crucial decisions, depends on speciality, if the doctor is handling multiple cases at one time, like code/cardiac arrest etc nurses have to step their game up.

Ok and where do you have the evidence to back this statement up

nesf

JuliusCaesar wrote: »

I was told this on a control-and-restraint course I was sent on. Size doesn't matter, we were told, and I (5'4") was teamed up with a guy who played GAA for his county (6' something - I couldn't see that high). Anyway, he was the "aggressive patient" and I launched myself at him in the prescribed manner, in order to restrain and control him. My head vanished into his armpit and my hands weren't big enough to circumscribe his wrists. We ended up in a heap laughing and the instructors stopped using the 'size doesn't matter' mantra for the rest of the course. They also gave me 'troublesome patients' who were smaller in size for the rest of the time.

Yeah it's truly bull****. Without a lot of training it's very hard to deal with someone who's substantially taller, heavier and stronger than you if they are sober and you aren't allowed to hit them with something heavy. Even with someone your own size it can be bloody hard to restrain them without hurting them.

drzhivago

imported_guy wrote: »

EU rules say, if you get 4 consequtive (6 month) contracts at the same hospital, if your hospital wants to hire you for a 5th contract, that 5th contract must be indefinate.

EU rules dont say that
Where is your evidence
Irish Law says if you are employed on more than 3 successive fixed term contracts the duration of which exceeds 3 years then any further extension must be for an indefinite period

That doesnt mean that this actually happens

imported_guy wrote: »

<snip> [/URL]

I advise you strongly to remove that link
You have stated here clearly that a family member works in this hospital, it doesnt take rocket science to work out who that is and they will not be pleased if you have put this on the net

Thephantomsmask

mikemac wrote: »

Strenght has nothing to do with turning over a patient. The weakest nurse can turn over the heaviest patient.
I saw this on a first aid course when the fire service demonstrated.
It's not about strenght but about technique.

If you've not done manual handling, demand a course from management

Ah yes, seeing a video is clearly a great substitute for actually having to do the job on a daily basis. The constant bending on the job, which is inevitable for pretty much all workers, before you even mention the tough physical work to lift and turn a patient takes it's toll very quickly. You would be amazed how many healthcare workers are receiving ortho and physio treatment for what seem like simple tasks. I prolapsed a disc 2 days after finishing a cardiac locum job in a dept where the chief thought it was perfectly adequate to do outpatient ECG's on a chair. Not much of a clinic morning where I could be seeing 40 patients was spent upright and was a complete disservice to both staff and patients. My back flares up from kneeling and bending to do children's EEG's and my right shoulder cracks continuously from reaching around patient's heads and from having to head roll or roll completely unconscious ones who are effectively a dead weight to move. My OH has had repeated physio on his left shoulder from doing echo's left handed, even in the dept's with ergonomic right handed couches, a lot of CT's who do echo's on a full time basis will need physio from reaching around patients especially if they're small in stature. Try doing the job and then see how much of that video you believe.

Narkius Maximus

drzhivago wrote: »

You really have no clue and should stop posting about hypothetical situations because you have no experience of the reality of this

I have done this for over 15 years along with others who post here and your statements are so inaccurate as to almost lead me to believe you are some sort of HSE mole

He's not a mole. He is Walter Mitty!

Dozen Wicked Words

Narkius Maximus wrote: »

I'm sorry we are actually training more medica students than ever before, the number of NCHD posts have actually increased up until quite recently

Apologies for my inaccuracy, I shouldn't post on the wonders of Drs and their training, its a weird and wonderful world of itinerancy I know so little about. I thought interns were thinner on the ground and presumed less were being trained (insert line about never presuming etc). In fact Travellers have more chance of being settled than junior drs. :P

Narkius Maximus

dooferoaks wrote: »

Apologies for my inaccuracy, I shouldn't post on the wonders of Drs and their training, its a weird and wonderful world of itinerancy I know so little about. I thought interns were thinner on the ground and presumed less were being trained (insert line about never presuming etc). In fact Travellers have more chance of being settled than junior drs. :P

Ha-good post. Every july and january when changing posts I'll slap on the theme tune to the littlest hobo, and sing,

"There's a bleep that keeps on bleeping me
Down on the wards , that's where I'll always be.
Every stop I make, I make a new friend,
Can't stay for long, just turn around and I'm gone again

Maybe tomorrow, I'd get to settle down,
Until tomorrow, I'll just keep moving on.

Down this career that never seems to end,
Where medical misadventure lies just around the bend.
So if you want to cover me for a while,
Just grab your scrubs, come travel light, that's junior doc style.

Maybe tomorrow I'll get to settle down,
Until tomorrow, the res room is my home.


Maybe tomorrow, I'll get consultancy, Until tomorrow, you know I'm freeckin wrecked!!

Sorry, last lines don't really rhyme