Is it Now?

donothoponpop

Peckham wrote: »

:mad: It's okay for you rural runners with trail routes on your doorstep. Save a thought for us suburban dwellers with frozen footpaths!

You're never far from my thoughts Peckham:p

Howth hill trail run map http://imra.ie/events/view/tab/maps/id/718/ isn't too far from you- then you got the Phoenix park, Luas to the Dublin Mountains... and oh yeah, you have shelves stocked full of milk and bread and Baileys on yer doorstep...

Failing that, try this.

donothoponpop

Sat 9th Jan 12 miles

Another lovely 12 mile shopping trip chasing pheasants and pink clouds through snow. Pipes have frozen, so no water for a shower:eek:

Slogger Jogger

Nice running. Feck. I expect you just took a snow shower rolling around in the snow?

donothoponpop

Slogger Jogger wrote: »

Nice running. Feck. I expect you just took a snow shower rolling around in the snow?

Considered it, maybe next time! All my gloating to Peckham about rural mountain living has come back to haunt me:)

Peckham

I may have had to do 18 miles on a treadmill today, but wow was that a powerful hot shower afterwards.

(cue Peckham's water system freezing over tonight)

donothoponpop

Don't know why I've been neglecting this poor log, time to feed it a bit.

Week 18-24 Jan 10 miles trail run, 9 mile hilly, 5 mile circuit, lots of cycling, 13 miles disjointed hill run.

Had a touch of flu which kept me in a few days, but since then I've been getting a few good runs in around the hills. I passed on running today's Imra race, fearing my ankle wouldn't hold up in race conditions, but as I was marking it, I got to see (and run) the course, which offered a lot of different terrain. It was freezing cold in the spot I was marshaling, so I ran up and down the hills a bit to stay warm. The race itself looked great, and it was with a large tinge of envy that I saw some fine runs put in today. Managed to get about 13 miles all told today, lots of climbing too.

donothoponpop

Mon 25 Jan Cross training

Brought the young fella to the local handball alley and joined up, which means I get to use their gym (such as it is) for an hour each Monday while he trains in the court. One of my resolutions this year is to get in more core work, so I'm happy enough to mess around with some weights for a while. They also have a couple of treadmills, so I tried one for a fifteen minute run- top speed, highest inclination, tough enough after a while, but nowhere near as hard as running up a hill.

I've said it before, I'll say it again, treadmill running is not real running, it's funny bouncing with a stride, suited only to coffee morning ladies who want to practice their powerwalking. All treadmillers should have their heels clipped, and their 1000 mile challenge "miles" taken away, and distributed to the destitute and needy. (Of which my lowly position on the table suggests, I'm one;))

Slogger Jogger

Well hello lady 'pops. Pot / kettle and all.

BeepBeep67

donothoponpop wrote: »

Mon 25 Jan Cross training

Brought the young fella to the local handball alley and joined up, which means I get to use their gym (such as it is) for an hour each Monday while he trains in the court.

Handball takes me back a few years to my Mount Sion days in Waterford - good fun and a great workout.

donothoponpop wrote: »

Mon 25 Jan Cross training

I've said it before, I'll say it again, treadmill running is not real running, it's funny bouncing with a stride, suited only to coffee morning ladies who want to practice their powerwalking. All treadmillers should have their heels clipped, and their 1000 mile challenge "miles" taken away, and distributed to the destitute and needy. (Of which my lowly position on the table suggests, I'm one;))

Giving out isn't the true definition of cross training , came across this article regarding Antonia Vega who just won the Houston HM, with most of his training on a treadie (http://www.runnersworld.com/article/0,7120,s6-240-466--13406-0,00.html) - don't knock it until you try it . Having said that it will never be a substitute for the Wickla mountains.

donothoponpop

BeepBeep67 wrote: »

Giving out isn't the true definition of cross training ,

:DGreat line, ha!:D (If it was I'd be Olympic champion!)

I'm just stirring things for the hell of it, I know their can be pro's to treddies as well.;)

donothoponpop

Tue 26 Jan 8 miles incl 8x25sec strides

This was more like it, cycled three miles to the start of my Annagh Hill loop, and parked the bike, just as a chap on horseback entered the trail. His steed was a bit jumpy at the sight of me, so we debated who should go first, he insisted I should, that his horse would only be trotting. Cue the first mile or so, all steeply uphill, of me trying to stay ahead of the fast approaching sound of hooves. I highly recommend this motivational technique for anyone doing hill work, its guaranteed to put some pep in your step.

Anyway, we parted ways once the trail split, and I started to put in some of the strides. These were the first type of any speedwork I've done in months, and it felt great to be running this quick again, with no complaints from the ankle. In addition to the strides, I ran hard up any of the uphills, of which there were a few, slowing to a jog for the downhills. Finished up with a fast enough last mile: fresh air, muck on my legs, not a treadmill in sight, what more could you want?:)

Krusty_Clown

News Alert: Donothoponpop outruns horse over mountain trail - immediately signed up to the national team. Expected to make his debut at the 3:15 in Leopardstown.

Sounds like you had a blast, and great to hear the ankle's holding up. So, Annacurra in two weeks time?

donothoponpop

Plan is to run at Annacurra, but I won't be breaking any records. I'm still carrying a fair amount of Xmas lard, that's a few weeks away from shifting. So much for losing weight while on the wagon:rolleyes:

donothoponpop

29th Jan 7 miles hill run.

Really didn't feel like getting out this morning, but as ever, once you're off, things are better, and I'm glad to have ran in such fresh air. Had a few glasses of wine last night, my first really in a month, so a slight hangover may be the cause of my mornings torpor. On the other hand, I fully understand what amadeus was on about when he talked of diminishing enthusiasm for marathon training: there's a nagging sense of "hear we go again" at the moment, perhaps the novelty of running is starting to wear off?

In any case, days like today are great, just getting out and running up and around Annagh Hill, with the magnificent views across the valley. It'll start getting easier too when the longer evenings roll around. No horse's today, but lots of fresh wind and clear air.

donothoponpop

Sat 30th Jan 7 miles hill run

Biked eight miles to Annacurra, where I met SJ and a couple of imra runners for a recce of Annacurra. The day started well, my missus deciding she didn't in fact need me on her shopping trip (years of scowling at pricetags and daring security guards to follow me round the stores are finally paying off:D), so I grabbed the opportunity to run on this great sunny day. We set off in two groups, while SJ waited for an arriving car, I ran off with a vastly-experienced mountain/marathon runner, who has been hitting bad form lately, which meant I could keep up with his pace.

As I panted up the hills, he kept me in good chat about marathon training (he's a 2:46 man), and insisted that the best way to train for results, is to be able to do PMP runs up to 20 miles in training. This has always made intuitive sense to me, and is backed up by a lot of fast marathon guys I talk to, even if it goes against the consensus of a lot of the popular books (and indeed, I think, this board).

The upshot is that he laughed when I told him I hoped to run a good time in Limerick in 13 weeks, and advised instead to get back to running 10, half, 16, and then 20 miles at PMP, and then run a goal marathon. Since my struggling form has been playing on my mind lately, I'm going to pass on Limerick and instead leave a sub-3 attempt until later in the year.

Which leaves a lot more time to focus on getting back up to speed, and running races and routes I enjoy, in the hills. If they were all as good as today's run, I may never run the roads again. Anyone who might be thinking of trying a mountain run, should come along next Saturday to experience this great course: hopefully we'll have weather as fine as today's.
Eight mile cycle back along the back roads, with plenty to mull over in my head.

Peckham

donothoponpop wrote: »

As I panted up the hills, he kept me in good chat about marathon training (he's a 2:46 man), and insisted that the best way to train for results, is to be able to do PMP runs up to 20 miles in training. This has always made intuitive sense to me, and is backed up by a lot of fast marathon guys I talk to, even if it goes against the consensus of a lot of the popular books (and indeed, I think, this board).

Interesting to hear that as I've been thinking a lot about this recently (given dermcu's approach). I haven't yet fully worked out my schedule for the key training weeks and may look at upping my PMP runs a bit. That said, I think I'll be maxing PMP at about 16 miles.

donothoponpop

Peckham wrote: »

Interesting to hear that as I've been thinking a lot about this recently (given dermcu's approach). I haven't yet fully worked out my schedule for the key training weeks and may look at upping my PMP runs a bit. That said, I think I'll be maxing PMP at about 16 miles.

FWIW, I've always considered your "progression" runs to be in a similar vein. If you're ending a 21 miler with 7 at PMP, that's a lot closer to the effort required for 21 at PMP, versus 21 at PMP+10-20%. I've always found the 21 at PMP+10% to be a doddle, compared to the race itself, and I don't think this is useful in training. Certainly, this is what the guy today (running well since the 1980's) told me.

I *know* it goes against the P&D mantra that seems oft-repeated here, but the amount of 2:30-2:50 guys who I've talked to, who run 15-20 at PMP in training (and sometimes faster), is starting to make me think it's a better way to go. As I said above, it always seemed intuitive.

Krusty_Clown

donothoponpop wrote: »

I *know* it goes against the P&D mantra that seems oft-repeated here, but the amount of 2:30-2:50 guys who I've talked to, who run 15-20 at PMP in training (and sometimes faster), is starting to make me think it's a better way to go. As I said above, it always seemed intuitive.

I would imagine that the best way to train for a marathon at pmp, is to run 25 miles at pmp. The second best thing is to run 24 miles, at pmp, and so on. The standard training program gets you there as quickly as possible, with the least amount of physical stress.

Following an 18 week program is tough enough (I failed on a 24 week program and am since on my second 12 week program - short enough to maintain my attention span!). Imagine how long it takes to build up to 10, 13, 16, 20 mile pmps? Personally, I wonder if anyone who is doing a 20 mile pmp run, should in fact be aiming for a time 5-10 minutes faster? But we're all made from different glue. There's no such thing as the perfect program, just the program that works best for the self. I really hope that a 12 week/55 mile program is enough to get me under the 3 hour mark, cos I know i'll never have the patience or the free time to do more than that.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Following an 18 week program is tough enough (I failed on a 24 week program and am since on my second 12 week program - short enough to maintain my attention span!). Imagine how long it takes to build up to 10, 13, 16, 20 mile pmps? Personally, I wonder if anyone who is doing a 20 mile pmp run, should in fact be aiming for a time 5-10 minutes faster?

I was wondering the same thing, but the reason I'm wondering it is that I'm so conditioned in the P&D mantra of PMP runs over 14 miles taking too much out of you.

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

But we're all made from different glue. There's no such thing as the perfect program, just the program that works best for the self. I really hope that a 12 week/55 mile program is enough to get me under the 3 hour mark, cos I know i'll never have the patience or the free time to do more than that.

Agree 100%, different strokes for different folks.

Going on the times you've been posting for your training runs, you're bang on course for well under three. Don't start second guessing your program now.

--amadeus--

Disappointed you're skipping Limerick, I was looking forward to meeting up.

There does seem to be a lot of the really quick guys who push on to 20 or so at PMP and it clearly works. I wonder though is it chicken and egg - they are quick because they have good biomechanics, fast recovery, etc and so they are better able to do those really tough runs in training. It's an approach I'd be interested in trying but it is risky. Of course the books are made for a mass market, they'll always advise on the safest way to train rather than the "best"...

You're making teh right choice though IMO - once it's not fun there is no point in doing it, this is fun not work!

donothoponpop

--amadeus-- wrote: »

You're making teh right choice though IMO - once it's not fun there is no point in doing it, this is fun not work!

No doubt about it!:D

Sun 31 Jan 7 miles steady pace.

^I'm enjoying my runs now, I really must try this "running introspection" a bit more.:) Feels like a weight has been lifted from my shoulders, obviously I was trying to prove something to myself in coming back so soon after injury, and trying for a good marathon straight away.

Today's run was another goodie, a few laps of Marlay Park, people watching as I ran. On my usual routes, I rarely see anyone at all, so its good to have a bit of variety. Run itself felt good, kept up a brisk pace all the way, and the ankle/calf felt better than its been in a while.

donothoponpop

Mon 1st Feb

Cross training for an hour, including a stint on the treaddie at 10% gradient. Ok, I'm never going to be a convert, but I can see how the treaddie can be tough. I'm still not going to include those miles on the 1000mile challenge though :psmug:p

Tue 2nd Feb 6 miles steady.

Going on the backroads, a loop of Hillbrook, running on tarmacadam soft as pillows. Where oh where is our gubbermont?

donothoponpop

Had another enforced hiatus, this time a killer sinus/chest infection. One course of antibiotics, and several missed races and runs, later, and I'm back putting a few miles together. In retrospect this was a good thing, as my achilles feels better than ever, so it may have needed that extra rest.

Anyway, I'll have to expunge all thoughts of marathons till autumn, so in the meantime I have to get hill fit for the Wicklow Way Relay race in June. Its about three and a half months away, so should be plenty of time to get back. The body feels good now, I've stayed in shape with a bit of cycling, and running feels easy enough. Plan is to keep it easy enough this week, and build up the training reasonably fast.

Sat 20th Feb Met up with SJ, after his great run in Ticknock, for about 8k or so around the hills of Annacurra. First time running in a while, and I was rearing to go, felt very good to be at it again.

Sun 8k easy forest run.

Mon Cross training for an hour, including a bout of 12% incline running on the dreadmill, upper body weights.

Wed 7k forest run, going hard enough on the uphills, decent pace all the way around. This run felt good, made me realize I can start to ramp up the speed/intensity easy enough. Which I will do from next week.

donothoponpop

Thurs 25 Feb 17k hill run

Mr. Snow visited our area again this morning, and I took the opportunity to head up and around Annagh Hill. The plan was to run 8k, 10k, 14k, playing it by ear, but I knew that the real goal was a full 17k loop. Set off at an honest sort of pace, and hit the hills a bit harder. I've always found this useful in training, once at the top of each crest I'll slow right down for a small jog, before slowly picking up the pace again. In any case, I've more to lose right now by training hard on the downhills.

The run out went well, and I soon knew I was ok for the longer distance. Thoughts of fighting for a team place on this years Wicklow Way Relay kept me strong on some of the steeper climbs, its amazing what a bit of competition can do to spur you on! The sleety rain was driving sharply into my face when I turned for home at halfway, but somehow that acted as a bit of a freshener, and I kept it up to get a relatively decent distance in, all things considered.

Krusty_Clown

Nicely done donothoponpop. Are you planning the trail run at the end of March? Sounds like you will be fighting fit for it.

donothoponpop

Krusty_Clown wrote: »

Nicely done donothoponpop. Are you planning the trail run at the end of March? Sounds like you will be fighting fit for it.

Cheers Krusty. I had planned the Ultra, but recent lack of training put this out the window. While I'd love to do the Trail, it's a little too much too soon. I booked a holiday starting that day, in case I changed my mind!
I'm going to err on the side of caution and leave out the racing for a few more weeks, probably target the Leinster Champs, which have an exciting look about them. I'll use this month to train sensibly.

donothoponpop

Sat 27 Feb 21.2k at 4:59 pace

I had two hours to kill in town today, so I tried a half-marathon around the concrete streets of Gorey. Have to say, I'm spoilt by running in my hills, coz I'd grow tired of hitting pavements real quick. People blocking paths, cars pulling out at every turn, dog crap everywhere, urgh!

Anyway, plan was to see how far I could go, bearing in mind I'm not fit, just back from illness and injury, got a lard ass. Running along at just(!) under 5min per k pace, with no real hills to speak of, I was surprised and happy to be able to keep a steady pace without too much effort, although I was counting down the k's after 10k, then counting the half k's after 15k, and by the time I had done 20k, I was garmin-watching the meters in anticipation of the magic 21.1k. It was starting to be a bit of a struggle, but without a doubt I could have kept up this pace for at least another 5k.

All in all, I'm very pleased that I can do this while not fit, today's run was great for the old confidence. Partly, this run was inspired by SJ's 28k loop this morning, and I'm going to his house for dinner tonight, where no doubt we'll talk running and training. I'll also have a look in his medicine cabinet and report back, I fully expect to see steroids or jars of white blood platelets, given his recent form.;)

donothoponpop

donothoponpop wrote: »

I'll also have a look in his medicine cabinet and report back, I fully expect to see steroids or jars of white blood platelets, given his recent form.;)

:eek:A room full of Oompa-Loompa's and a blender:eek:

BeepBeep67

donothoponpop wrote: »

:eek:A room full of Oompa-Loompa's and a blender:eek:

Sounds like a fun evening - did it involve putting car keys in bowl

donothoponpop

Sun 28 Feb 11k hill run.

After being wined and dined by chef SloggerJogger last night, we met up with a few others for a scout around the route of the forthcoming Carrick hill race. I dragged my pale and hungover body up the first few climbs, and it wasn't long before I had to walk- very little energy this morning. Others, who may figure in the podium finishers of the race- had no such problem, bounding effortlessly uphill, as they sized up the competition, while feigning complaints of injury, fatigue, sickness, tiredness, in a game of imra poker. You know who you are, and you're fooling no-one!;)

Anyway, while I played catch-up at each junction, my body was very aware of yesterday's run, so it was a struggle all the way around. The course, however, is a classic, it has a bit of everything thrown in, and the super-fast descent must be among the quickest and steepest in imra races. Very happy when the end finally came, this was the only way to expunge all last nights wine. It's too soon for me to race at Carrick, but I'd strongly recommend it to everyone who likes to test themselves against the mountains.