Chapter One Restaurant

az2wp0sye65487

Lucky enough to be going here soon. Have heard it's supposed to be a lovely place.

I'm not a wine drinker, but do appreciate a good beer.

I've checked their website, and although there is an extensive wine list there is no mention of beer!

Anyone been here before and know what kind of beers are on offer?

Royale with Cheese

I was there about 18 months ago. They had bottles of Heineken, Miller, Tiger and one or two others. Just the usual really.

az2wp0sye65487

Bit disappointing considering their vast wine selection!

BeerNut

It's ever the way with top-end restaurants: kick-ass wine lists and the beer equivalents of Piat d'Or and Blue Nun. Roly's even has a Bud tap :eek:

About the only proper restaurant in Dublin with a decent beer list (and the only retail outlet for Double L cider AFAIK) is The Winding Stair.

the beer revolu

Yup, annoying, disappointing and disheartening but not surprising!

Hotels tend to be just as bad.

They probably have an extensive Whisk(e)y and Brandy list too.

Coffee very often tends to be very low on their list of priorities too!

oblivious

the beer revolu wrote: »

Yup, annoying, disappointing and disheartening but not surprising! !

Yep

the beer revolu wrote: »

Hotels tend to be just as bad.

An going to get worse since a load of them are not been run as proper business

olaola

You don't go to Chapter One to drink beer.

oblivious

olaola wrote: »

You don't go to Chapter One to drink beer.

do you go to drink wine?

the beer revolu

olaola wrote: »

You don't go to Chapter One to drink beer.

Then why have a wine list??

oblivious

olaola wrote: »

You don't go to Chapter One to drink beer.

oblivious wrote: »

do you go to drink wine?

Sorry my reply appears little blunt, but beer is much more than mass marketed lager or bland nitro stouts and can accompany food. I would have though true foodies would want to accentuate their meals as much as possible, other than the classic Irish stout and oysters

Chimay blue with duck, duvel with clams and past are examples

chahop

Its very hard for restaurants to stock a good selection of beer. I find a very small % of people order beer with their meal and most of them want muck (Bud, Miller, Coors light, heineken). + beer goes off wine doesnt.
This is my own exp as a restaurant owner, I had a descent beer list and had to bring most of it home. Now I just stock the usual + Tiger and paulaner and might sell 12 of each in 3-4 months.
I have never had to do that with wine.

the beer revolu

chahop wrote: »

Its very hard for restaurants to stock a good selection of beer. I find a very small % of people order beer with their meal and most of them want muck (Bud, Miller, Coors light, heineken). + beer goes off wine doesnt.
This is my own exp as a restaurant owner, I had a descent beer list and had to bring most of it home. Now I just stock the usual + Tiger and paulaner and might sell 12 of each in 3-4 months.
I have never had to do that with wine.

Fair enough but it's not correct to say that beer goes off and wine doesn't.
Of course wine goes off and certainly goes past its best.
Some beers have very long shelf lives (and some will continue to develop long past their BB)

It would be correct to say that beer has a Best Before Date and wine doesn't.
Personally, I don't see why wine doesn't have a BB date!

BeerNut

chahop wrote: »

I had a descent beer list

Out of interest, what was on it?

I think any restaurant should have a hoppy American beer (Goose Island IPA, say, or Brooklyn Lager), a strong dark trappist in a 75cl bottle (Westmalle Dubbel, La Trappe Dubbel) and a quality German weissbier (Schneider Weisse, Paulaner). That'll cover most foods, I'd say.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

Out of interest, what was on it?

I'd be interested to know that as well.

Lots of establishments think they have a great list but, in fact, just have a weissbier and several 'premium' lagers.
(I'm not suggesting that that was the case with you, chahop!)

Pixelcraft

BeerNut wrote: »

I think any restaurant should have a hoppy American beer (Goose Island IPA, say, or Brooklyn Lager), a strong dark trappist in a 75cl bottle (Westmalle Dubbel, La Trappe Dubbel) and a quality German weissbier (Schneider Weisse, Paulaner). That'll cover most foods, I'd say.

That sounds like a restaurant I'd go to!

BeerNut

Pixelcraft wrote: »

That sounds like a restaurant I'd go to!

... and a wine list consisting of Black Tower and Blossom Hill. Not that I'm a reactionary or anything

olaola

oblivious wrote: »

Chimay blue with duck, duvel with clams and past are examples

It's not a Belgian influenced restaurant.

And I wouldn't go to the pub to drink wine.

oblivious

olaola wrote: »

It's not a Belgian influenced restaurant.

it was just examples, but what about french Bierre de Garde


but i suspect the have a wine list form around the world?

BeerNut

olaola wrote: »

It's not a Belgian influenced restaurant.

Nor an Argentinian, New Zealand, or Australian influenced one. What's your point?

olaola wrote: »

And I wouldn't go to the pub to drink wine.

I suspect that's because, with a few exceptions (Gibney's of Malahide springs immediately to mind), the wine served in pubs is rubbish.

Wouldn't the eating and drinking scene be a better place if quality beer and quality wine could be got in both pubs and restaurants. The UK is much better at this sort of thing than we are, and there's no reason it can't happen here.

Is something threatened by a call for better beer in restaurants, or better wine in pubs for that matter?

olaola

I don't get you tbh, if I was going to Belgian influenced starred restaurant, I would perhaps expect a more extensive list of beer.
It's a French influenced starred restaurant. Classic French cuisine at this level doesn't tend to include beer as an accompaniment to the courses.

If you want to drink beer, go somewhere else! I don't order 1/4 bottles of plonk from the local, and I don't expect them to hold onto a stock of decent wine either. As that is not what their clientele going for.

BeerNut

olaola wrote: »

I don't get you

Put simply, I'm in favour of better choice and higher quality in the retail drinks trade in Ireland.

olaola wrote: »

It's a French influenced starred restaurant.

I've been looking at the menu (and I've been in a few times) and I disagree with you. Chapter One is very very Irish. "House cured and smoked organic salmon"; "Fergusons smoked bacon"; "Galway rock oysters" -- they're very good at sourcing top-notch Irish food. There's nothing that insists that this must be served with drinks from France, Australia, Italy or New Zealand.

olaola wrote: »

If you want to drink beer, go somewhere else!

Well, obviously, we do. My point is that it's not that way other places, and it needn't be here.

olaola wrote: »

I don't order 1/4 bottles of plonk from the local

And if the local had wines you actually like, would you order them?

olaola wrote: »

and I don't expect them to hold onto a stock of decent wine either. As that is not what their clientele going for.

But they have created this low expectation. It's a race to the bottom and the customer -- me and you -- lose out. There's no risk in having a couple of bottles of decent, strong, sharable beer, with a long shelf-life, sitting in the cellar next to the wines, and listed on the menu with the same sort of tasting notes as the wines gets. It can even be served in a wine glass.

chahop

I had Sam Adams boston larger, the Chimay blue and red, Duval, Pilnsner Urquel, Fransinkaner, Spaten, Tiger, O'haras stout, Spitfire and there was a couple more.
Sorry about the spelling but just getting ready to open up.

BeerNut

chahop wrote: »

the Chimay blue and red, Duval

These don't go off, any more than wine does. Chimay Blue is a vintage product: the year of production is on the label, it can be cellared for years, and the character will change as it does so.

It's an unfortunate feature of our food safety laws that beer must have a best before date on it, but it can generally be ignored on bottle conditioned ales that are over 6% or so.

the beer revolu

olaola wrote: »

I don't get you tbh, if I was going to Belgian influenced starred restaurant, I would perhaps expect a more extensive list of beer.
It's a French influenced starred restaurant. Classic French cuisine at this level doesn't tend to include beer as an accompaniment to the courses.

If you want to drink beer, go somewhere else! I don't order 1/4 bottles of plonk from the local, and I don't expect them to hold onto a stock of decent wine either. As that is not what their clientele going for.

I never understand why people get so upset and defensive when it is suggested that quality establishments serve a choice of quality beer.
No one is suggesting that it should be instead of an extensive list of wine or Port or whiskey or brandy or liqueurs or aperitifs etc etc.
It is simply being suggested that a list of quality beers should compliment the other alcoholic beverages available. Choice is the key word.

Olaola, are you suggesting that that beer shouldn't be served in restaurants at all or are you suggesting that only mainstream, industrial lager be served?
They don't serve mainstream industrial food of wine in Chapter One, so why serve beer like that?

In these sort of discussions I'v come across so much hostility from people who seem to think that providing choice will somehow negatively affect their experience.
I quote: "I'll drink what I want, where I want and don't want whingy beer snobs like you telling me what to do".
Now, I don't care what anyone else decides to drink but I would like to see more choice of quality beverages for everyone.
Why are people so afraid of that?

PS Chahop, that was a fine list to offer - such a shame more people didn't avail of it.

Personally, I like wine with my dinner but I really enjoy a good beer after my dinner (and sometimes before). Maybe if a bottle of dark beer was suggested to people with a cheese plate, they might go for it. Or certain beers with dessert. Unfortunately lots of pubs and restaurants stock good beer but often the customer has no way of knowing about it or are never encouraged to try something new!

OK rant over!

BeerNut

the beer revolu wrote: »

if a bottle of dark beer was suggested to people with a cheese plate, they might go for it. Or certain beers with dessert.

Excellent point. Beer goes with foods that wine struggles with -- cheeses and chocolate in particular. Suggesting a small glass of Samuel Adams Triple Bock or Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout in place of a port with a chocolate dessert is a great idea; or Rochefort 10 with a cheese plate.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

Excellent point. Beer goes with foods that wine struggles with -- cheeses and chocolate in particular. Suggesting a small glass of Samuel Adams Triple Bock or Brooklyn Black Chocolate Stout in place of a port with a chocolate dessert is a great idea; or Rochefort 10 with a cheese plate.

And, also, the concept of serving 75cl bottles to be shared would be a good idea - even 33cl can be split nicely between two if it's a heavy/strong beer.

olaola

the beer revolu wrote: »

Olaola, are you suggesting that that beer shouldn't be served in restaurants at all or are you suggesting that only mainstream, industrial lager be served?
They don't serve mainstream industrial food of wine in Chapter One, so why serve beer like that?

Where am I suggesting they shouldn't serve beer? I am suggesting people should stop moaning about their selection. IMO it's not within this restaurants remit to serve 'selected' beers.

BeerNut

olaola wrote: »

it's not within this restaurants remit to serve 'selected' beers.

So the food has to be first rate, the wine has to be first rate; the spirits are doubtless first rate; but the beer is allowed to be any old rubbish.

That just seems wrong to me.

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

So the food has to be first rate, the wine has to be first rate; the spirits are doubtless first rate; but the beer is allowed to be any old rubbish.

That just seems wrong to me.

No, it's perfectly reasonable - you're moaning!!

And it would be perfectly acceptable for then to serve instant coffee - it's not in their remit to serve quality coffee - if you want that then go to a café !

the beer revolu

BeerNut wrote: »

About the only proper restaurant in Dublin with a decent beer list (and the only retail outlet for Double L cider AFAIK) is The Winding Stair.

Yes but, as I said, many establishments stock beers but do nothing to encourage customers to try them.
I just looked at The Winding Stair's website - not a single mention of the beer that they do stock (beautiful wine list, though).

az2wp0sye65487

olaola wrote: »

You don't go to Chapter One to drink beer.

I'd prefer a nice beer to a glass of wine with my meal. Why should I be deprived of that?

olaola wrote: »

I don't get you tbh, if I was going to Belgian influenced starred restaurant, I would perhaps expect a more extensive list of beer.
It's a French influenced starred restaurant. Classic French cuisine at this level doesn't tend to include beer as an accompaniment to the courses.

If you want to drink beer, go somewhere else! I don't order 1/4 bottles of plonk from the local, and I don't expect them to hold onto a stock of decent wine either. As that is not what their clientele going for.

olaola wrote: »

Where am I suggesting they shouldn't serve beer? I am suggesting people should stop moaning about their selection. IMO it's not within this restaurants remit to serve 'selected' beers.

I must say, there is a slight hint of 'snobbery' coming from what you're saying. I have had no real exposure to; or experience with wines.

To be honest, I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a Merlot and a Sauvignon Blanc - apart from the colour of course (That's right, I Googled them!). Maybe I'm just not as sophisticated or as well travelled as some, but I still appreciate a nice beer. So should I be denied what I want, just because it's supposedly not in their remit? Good beer is just as important as wine to compliment a good meal - from a beer drinker's perspective.

I printed off Chapter One's wine list today; and it is 26 A4 pages long. Possibly with every type of wine imaginable from all around the world. But what selection of beer is there? Hardly any.

mayordenis

I can't believe how closed minded some people are still.
A good few people have put it more eloquantly that I will but here goes anyway.

I go to michelin stared resteraunts for quality, not just quality food, but quality drinks, quality decor, quality staffing. The Quality drinks part should be be included and it is within their remit to provide such as the beers the currently serve are only good for washing flavours out of your mouth.

drkpower

Ishaan Important Fashion wrote: »

I printed off Chapter One's wine list today; and it is 26 A4 pages long. Possibly with every type of wine imaginable from all around the world. But what selection of beer is there? Hardly any.

I would exclusively have wine with food (and love a good one) and always assumed that the reasons for the lack of good beers on the menu of good restaurants was the perishability factor. But I also like a good beer every now and then. But when I read the comments of the beer officianados on here about the shelf life of beer, it amazes me.

Why are restaurants doing this?
Is it possible that there is a commercial reason? Does beer have less of a profit margin? Is it possible that the average spend of a person who drinks beer is less than if they rae forced to drink wine?

I am grasping at straws here because it really makes no sense that such excelllent restaurants would choose to restrict their choices for no ther reason than a bit of old-fashioned snobbery.

the beer revolu

drkpower wrote: »

I would exclusively have wine with food (and love a good one) and always assumed that the reasons for the lack of good beers on the menu of good restaurants was the perishability factor. But I also like a good beer every now and then. But when I read the comments of the beer officianados on here about the shelf life of beer, it amazes me.

Why are restaurants doing this?
Is it possible that there is a commercial reason? Does beer have less of a profit margin? Is it possible that the average spend of a person who drinks beer is less than if they rae forced to drink wine?

I am grasping at straws here because it really makes no sense that such excelllent restaurants would choose to restrict their choices for no ther reason than a bit of old-fashioned snobbery.

To be honest, I don't think it is really deliberate. I think that many restaurateurs don't realise that international best selling beers are the beer equivalent of Jacob's Creek or Blossom Hill. More restaurateurs realise this but reckon on the market for quality beers being too small to bother with. I think it's a bit like restaurants catering for vegetarians - most make a token effort - but the market is too small for them to really bother.

As was said before, everything about a restaurant should reflect its standard. A Michelin starred restaurant simple should not serve industrial beer any more than they should serve instant coffee or Vienetta for dessert.

sourgrapes

Give them a call and ask them what beer they have. They are generally really accommodating so why not ask if you can bring your own (if you're really nice about it)

BeerNut

With apologies for digging up an old old thread:

Chapter One now sells O'Hara's beer in bottles.

Saermegil

The Larder in Dublin has the O'Haras and organic cider, was there the other day and had the IPA with a lovely steak

BeerNut

Saermegil wrote: »

was there the other day and had the IPA with a lovely steak

I've been doing that a lot. €15 for a fantastic steak and a bottle of IPA is hard to beat.