Why is the LGBT so small in UCD

BlueLepreachaun

Boston wrote: »

You can't be going around calling every one whose ignorant of the realities of LGBT issues a homophobe. Especially when they've just taken on board the points you've made and adjusted their attitude. It's counter productive.

I was joking, relax.
I also didn't call anyone a homophobe.

SarahChambers

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

Like the taxi driver that says DA POLES and DA BLACKS are takin over...I'm not racist now!

No, that is quiet different, I am not part of the group which I was trying to defend, and anyway I recanted the statement, going after me after I have done that is just sad.

Boston

No you didn't call her a homophobe, you just compared her to a racist. You may be joking but to someone reading your post it looked like you were giving someone a kicking simply because they had the decency to apologise. Keeping in mind that the thread is about the UCD LGBT society and you appear to be speaking on their behalf, that's pretty poor form.

BlueLepreachaun

Jesus relax folks, I'm not speaking on anyones behalf, if you'd read the posts before looking for an excuse to get offended you'd see I only have been to one meetng, I'm not even a member.
You don't know anything about me or my views on LGBT issues, in fact I'd venture my views are probably closer to Sarahs than yours, so enough portraying me as some kinda gay millitant ready to pound people into hte ground for expressing a diffrent opinion.

SarahChambers wrote: »

No, that is quiet different, I am not part of the group which I was trying to defend, and anyway I recanted the statement, going after me after I have done that is just sad.

It was a joke and not intended to offend, I thought the cliche of the taxi driver saying "im not x not BUT" was well known.

Why do people on message boards alwyas take themselves way too seriously...

SarahChambers

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

Jesus relax folks, I'm not speaking on anyones behalf, if you'd read the posts before looking for an excuse to get offended you'd see I only have been to one meetng, I'm not even a member.
You don't know anything about me or my views on LGBT issues, in fact I'd venture my views are probably closer to Sarahs than yours, so enough portraying me as some kinda gay millitant ready to pound people into hte ground for expressing a diffrent opinion.



It was a joke and not intended to offend, I thought the cliche of the taxi driver saying "im not x not BUT" was well known.

Why do people on message boards alwyas take themselves way too seriously...

Well it was very offensive to me, that is why I took it seriously. I respect all groups, christians, gay community, blacks, whites etc. and that is why I made the first statement, as well as that it is why I recanted it when I realised the huge error I had made in my thinking.

BlueLepreachaun

You didn't appear to respect all groups at first if you think that a group of people should not be setting up in a University just because of a group of other peoples religion, you'd never hear me suggesting the Christian Union should not be allowed to set up etc

But you were thinking out loud, we all do it, so lets not make a big thing out of it

I generally operate on the harm principle when deciding what I think should and shoudn't be allowed, I find it a good guide that lets everyone do their thing without interference:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harm_principle

That the only purpose for which power can be rightfully exercised over any member of a civilized community, against his will, is to prevent harm to others

...in other words if someones not harming or interfering with the corrisponding rights of another, they should be free to do as they please, the beauty of this idea is it allows a gay society to get up as wel as the Legion of Mary, despite them being in polar opposition to each other.

Boston

BlueLepreachaun wrote: »

Jesus relax folks, I'm not speaking on anyones behalf, if you'd read the posts before looking for an excuse to get offended you'd see I only have been to one meetng, I'm not even a member.
You don't know anything about me or my views on LGBT issues, in fact I'd venture my views are probably closer to Sarahs than yours, so enough portraying me as some kinda gay millitant ready to pound people into hte ground for expressing a diffrent opinion.

It was a joke and not intended to offend, I thought the cliche of the taxi driver saying "im not x not BUT" was well known.

Why do people on message boards alwyas take themselves way too seriously...

Offended? Not in the least. It's merely paints a bad picture.

BlueLepreachaun

:rolleyes:...whatever

Boston

I don't know where the impression came from that the members where self obsessed, obnoxious and offensive came from.

mloc

SarahChambers wrote: »

I don't think there shouldn't be a gay society in UCD, a predominantly Catholic university.

Without diving in the whole religion/atheism thing, I think it's fair to say that UCD is, for the most part, a Catholic university by name only, similar to many of its students.

While I've no problem with a church on campus, or other religious centres, I'm not a fan of mixing education and religion, at any level.

BlueLepreachaun

Boston wrote: »

I don't know where the impression came from that the members where self obsessed, obnoxious and offensive came from.

Who said that?

mloc wrote: »

Without diving in the whole religion/atheism thing, I think it's fair to say that UCD is, for the most part, a Catholic university by name only, similar to many of its students.

While I've no problem with a church on campus, or other religious centres, I'm not a fan of mixing education and religion, at any level.

One of the chaplans handles a lot of stuff but hes also a sudent advisor and hes' really good at his job, apart from that there isn't any mixing of it.

The church on campus is miltidenominational as far as I know, diffrent religions use it at diffrent times.

Kournikova

I was going to join, but then didn't.

I fear I conform to the stereotype above But whatever.

fillefatale

I have friends who are members and it all seems very stereotypical to be honest, I'd feel alienated - some of the members seem to be small minded, like purely gay issues is all they are concerned about, fair enough, but open your mind to what's going on outside the gay cliqué too, or else you are just pigeonholing yourself and prospective members.

El Siglo

SarahChambers wrote: »

Look, I don't want to appear homophobic, I really am not a homophobe. Gay people should not be discriminated against in society, but I don't think there shouldn't be a gay society in UCD, a predominantly Catholic university.

Firstly, nobody cares what you think or whether you're "not a homophobe".
Secondly, how exactly did you get into this "Catholic university" of yours? Was it like collect twenty tayto packets and you get into UCD?

I'm not even going to bother stating where I'm coming from on this matter but arguing the whole Catholic makeup of UCD is like arguing the Protestant makeup of Trinity, it's an absurd judegement to make in this day and age. Religion means nothing in universities now, just as sexuality and sexual preference means nothing in the running of the place and that's the way it should stay. However this doesn't mean religious groups can't be catered for, they can, just like LGBT groups can be catered for through the provision of facilities for amenities.

RandolphEsq

El Siglo wrote: »

Firstly, nobody cares what you think or whether you're "not a homophobe".
Secondly, how exactly did you get into this "Catholic university" of yours? Was it like collect twenty tayto packets and you get into UCD?

I'm not even going to bother stating where I'm coming from on this matter but arguing the whole Catholic makeup of UCD is like arguing the Protestant makeup of Trinity, it's an absurd judegement to make in this day and age. Religion means nothing in universities now, just as sexuality and sexual preference means nothing in the running of the place and that's the way it should stay. However this doesn't mean religious groups can't be catered for, they can, just like LGBT groups can be catered for through the provision of facilities for amenities.

That poster retracted that post rendering your rant invalid

El Siglo

RandolphEsq wrote: »

That poster retracted that post rendering your rant invalid

Fair enough. I too will retract accordingly. Is that alright?

lebowskilite

Couldn't tell you how I know this but the SU LGBTRO's email is lgbt@ucdsu.ie

If you're struggling to fit in in college because of your sexuality, he can help. It's confidential, etc., as well.
First off you'll find that the soc. isn't all that stereotypical. There's often a pesky str8 couple in there of late (shock!) and apart from that people are just talking about how much they hate exams, etc., and stupid things they did when they were drunk. That isn't stereotypical of gays, it's stereotypical of students.

If it does ostracise anybody, it's mature LGBT students, who may find the conversation annoying and perhaps justifiably so.

As for it being small, about 60 ppl voted at the last AGM. The L+H AGM the year before last was about that size.

As for the fem boys and the butch girls, I can't see this being a reason not to go. It's fairly annoying to hear this as a reason to dislike or feel uncomfortable around someone. It's usually a prejudice based on seeing gender lines being crossed, which is more often then not the route cause of homophobia. As an LGBT Society, you should suspect that gender lines won't be considered an issue by those who run it.

If you want to set up an alternative society on the grounds that you don't like gender lines being crossed, you'd be just as justified to set up a Men's Only Something Club or a Straights' only something club. It's just another form of prejudice that we need to overcome.

But you're obviously well entitled to your opinion, and I'm sure the SU officer won't discriminate on those grounds. The LGBT Soc committee this year has both a Men's and a Women's Officer, neither of which fit into either one of those stereotypes.

I do take the point about stereotypes, though. You may feel uncomfortable being labelled in the same manner. However, the society just isn't that stereotypical. Neither is the SU officer. I'd also like to point out that the only reason those "stereotypes" are considered to be such, is because it was they who came out of the closet first, and it was they who fought for and secured the rights gay people now enjoy. This is because they find it harder to hide, and require ore courage simply to exist. After they've found this courage political activism or even more vocal visibility is much easier to take on. It's no coincidence that the two loudest politicos in Irish gay politics are the self-proclaimed fairy David Norris and the legendary drag queen Panti (Rory O'Neill).

That email again, lgbt@ucdsu.ie

BlueLepreachaun

Assuming the (incorrect) premise that they are all steriotypical, we've had about 4 people say they don't wanna join for that reason...do you not see the obvious paradox in that? If all of you had joined the issue of all being steriotypical would not exist...

RandolphEsq

El Siglo wrote: »

Fair enough. I too will retract accordingly. Is that alright?

Kiss it

/presents ass

El Siglo

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Kiss it

/presents ass

Em....:rolleyes:

The_Minister

El Siglo wrote: »

...
Secondly, how exactly did you get into this "Catholic university" of yours? Was it like collect twenty tayto packets and you get into UCD?
...

There is a rule in the charter against personal abuse.
Please make your points without insulting fellow posters.

RandolphEsq wrote: »

Kiss it

/presents ass

While I am a fan of South Park, this doesn't strike me as an appropriate area of discussion for the thread to go down.

odhran666

As communications officer for the LGBT Society I'd like to make a few points :

To answer the original question, the LGBT has over 300 members this year. Attendance at events ranges from about 20 - 60 people, depending on the event.

This is mainly because most of them are stereotypical.

I strongly disagree with this. The LGBT is made up of a vastly diverse group of people, there may be some individuals that fit into some stereotypes, but it certainly doesn't hold for the entire society. For example, our Men's Officer recently organized a soccer team which was very popular within the society.

Although some of our events (such as Pink Training) cater mainly for gay people, all our events are open to everybody. We usually have 2 coffee mornings a week, their purpose being just to socialise in a gay-friendly environment.

I really regret not joining this, I have no gay friends at all(let alone in UCD), feel kind of alienated I suppose. I don't care for stereotypes really, I am just kicking myself for not availing of LGBT society.

Our membership is open all year round, you can join up at a coffee morning or if you'd like to speak to someone on the LGBT committee on a one-to-one basis (regarding anything) e-mail buddy.ucdlgbt@gmail.com - or simply e-mail ucdlgbt@gmail.com and we'll get back to you ASAP.

some of the members seem to be small minded, like purely gay issues is all they are concerned about, fair enough, but open your mind to what's going on outside the gay cliqué too, or else you are just pigeonholing yourself and prospective members.

It may seem like this sometimes, however for some people LGBT events are the only place where they can talk openly and discuss gay issues. The purpose of the LGBT society is to support the gay community in UCD in any way possible, from running coffee mornings so that people can meet up and chat to ensuring that people are not discriminated against based on their sexuality or gender identity.

As for the fem boys and the butch girls, I can't see this being a reason not to go. It's fairly annoying to hear this as a reason to dislike or feel uncomfortable around someone. It's usually a prejudice based on seeing gender lines being crossed, which is more often then not the route cause of homophobia. As an LGBT Society, you should suspect that gender lines won't be considered an issue by those who run it.

This is an excellent point. In this day and age people need to realise that gender identities are not things that are set in stone. Gender and sexuality are both things with huge scope and range which vary from person to person. At the end of the day everyone is an individual and should be treated with the respect and dignity that they deserve no matter how they dress, behave or who they have sex with.

zero_the_hero

I really can’t say that I have much sympathy for the thread starter. I would think that, as a gay man, he would be aware of the importance of letting people be themselves, regardless of how others may view them. Some people fit stereotypes, and some people don’t like hanging around certain kinds of people. So what?

The members of the LGBT soc are under no obligation to anyone, gay or straight, to behave in a certain way, whether that means living up to, or diverging from a stereotype. Let’s say the society is full of stereotypical gays, well that’s just too bad if you happen not to like stereotypical gays.

I entirely understand gay men who are not attracted to ‘feminine’ gay men, but presumably the point of attending an LGBT event is not to have sex with as many of the members as possible (in theory anyway). Just because you don’t want to shag any of them, doesn’t mean they’re not worth knowing as people.

MozMael

ciaran29391 wrote: »

I was just wondering, why is the UCD LGBT so small?. I'm a member of it, but i dont go to any of the events. This is mainly because most of them are stereotypical. And i don't go for the stereotypes.

Is this the reason for the society being small?

Whats your opinion?

Hi Ciaran, if you are a member, and you don't go to any events, and thus, don't know anyone in the society, how can you possibly claim that most of them are stereotypical?

For instance. I support football. I'm not stereotypical...and I'm on committee? Your claim is wrong ALREADY! Sure no one believes my boyfriend and I are going out because he is also "straight acting".

If you attend events in the future you will realise some people are stereotypical and some are not. However, I find this is a needless aspect to dwell on. Your priorities are wrong Ciaran.

The concept and ethos of our LGBT is to provide a safe environment for people and their sexualities where they can express themselves without fearing rejection or intimidation.

Surely it is ludicrious to avoid people just because they're 'stereotypical'? What matters more is if people are genuine and friendly and inviting. This something I very quickly realised is important in college and in life. You need nice people around you, that's all. Hopefully you will eventually realise this, and know that people who are camp or butch are just the same as "normal acting" people.

It's a diverse collection of people we have and we like to celebrate and champion this fact.

I encourage you to attend some events first, before judging an entire society.

Evan
(Who doesn't like Madonna, Kylie, Derek Mooney or George Michael....)

albino rhino

ciaran29391 wrote: »

ok, let me rephrase, there are some non stereotypical, but the majority appear to fit the stereotype.

Heya Ciaran,
As a new member of the LGBT and one half of the "pesky straight couple" i think you should come out on friday and see for yourself before you judge from afar.I mean how can you say their all stereotypical when you've never been out with them.That seems pretty narrow minded to me.Come to the Xmas party on Friday and then decide for yourself.

Bougeoir

ciaran29391 wrote: »

I was just wondering, why is the UCD LGBT so small?. I'm a member of it, but i dont go to any of the events. This is mainly because most of them are stereotypical. And i don't go for the stereotypes.

Is this the reason for the society being small?

Whats your opinion?

Actually as a former Trinner who was in the LGBT soc there in 2006, the UCD LGBT is much bigger in my opinion. As a minority of society in general is LGBT, of course it's not going to be a huge society. Of course I know many other LGBT people in UCD who don't go or rarely go to the society and when asked none of them said they didn't go because they thought it was "too stereotypical". If you don't go, then how do you know it's so small and secondly the LGBT community isn't special in that it has stereotypes, if you go to any group, you're going to bring your own stereotypes with you. For example, if I were to attend a very privileged gold club and attend their events, I may bring a stereotype that all the people there are snobby, stuck-up and rich. My prejudiced view may well be right but it may not speak for everyone there since I don't know everyone there. I may even meet somebody who seems stereotypically pompous at first but in further understanding of that person, I may discover that they are indeed a very down-to-earth, charitable person who happens to like golf!

ciaran29391 wrote: »

well then since they have become so alienated from people, who are normal and are gay, rather than people who are all about gay.. aka overly camp/overly butch...
Would it be a good idea to start up a new soc? like the UCDHSOC, ucd homosexual society lol.
It's just that its hard to meet other normal gay people as they're not easily spotted in the crowd.

Define "normal"! This word "normal" has been thrown about for decades and people still use it as though they have some full conviction in do so and pretend that they know what they are referring to. Normal is entirely relative and subjective. What you seem to perceive as "normal" is that men have male roles (i.e. modes of acting, dress, interests, gestures, etc.) and they are in one box and that women have theirs. I'm sorry to inform you but that's not reality. It's not just an LGBT issue, it's a social issue in general. I know many straight guys who like fashion, shopping, art, drama, theatre, even Madonna and Kylie! (shock! :eek:) They still like women. Does that mean they are "less of a man" because they happen not to fit into your stereotypical view of the the way men ought to act? Likewise, there are straight girls who enjoy things associated with men like football (even hear of women's football?), working out, etc. Does that mean they are "less of a woman" because they happen not to fit into your stereotypical view of the way women ought to act?

I, myself, am a gay guy and the first time I went out to the George a couple of years back, some guy said to men that I'm camp. I didn't have a notion what he was on about, I didn't even know what camp meant! I had always seen myself as the way I am without the need to box myself and suddenly there was some guy who's boxing me who doesn't even know me! Stereotypes can't be avoided unfortunately; it's in human nature to discriminate due to evolutionary reasons of altruism (yes I'm rather a "nerd" by some yet another box for me to be cast into!! ). The main thing I think is to stand back from the stereotype you're illustrating and ask yourself "Is this person really as stereotypical as I perceive them to be?" I'm sure if you got to know that person, your perception might just change! Who knows! People need to start seeing others for who they are, not for what they think they are. It's easy enough to stick a tag on everyone but it's harder to justify it.

ciaran29391 wrote: »

Its not that they don't have many events, they do! its just that there's no gay people in it that don't fit the stereotype!.
They fight for equality and try to stamp out the stereotyping in their work, but most of they themselves are stereotypes....
The point i'm trying to get across is that there is no non sterotypical gays in it. I'm gay for a reason, i like MEN, not men who act like women.
That sounds kind of harsh, but i mean it in an observant way

As I said above, try to stand back for one moment and reevaluate your biased view. How do you know all are stereotypical? Everyone is uniquely different and that's one of the most glorious and amazing thing about being alive in such a vast world is that you are unique! It's a privilege! It isn't the LGBT soc's role to tell people how they should dress, act, behave, etc. to fit an image (again that'd actually be a stereotype coincidently). It is a society for everyone, even straight people are 100% welcome and there are some straight members and people in the society see them in the same light as everyone else.

Whatever your sexual preference is is yours and doesn't concern me or anybody else. I myself personally go to the society because when I first arrived in UCD last year, I didn't really know anyone and it was so big that I wanted to make friends and the LGBT was the perfect opportunity to do so.

The LGBT soc doesn't just sit around over cups of coffee talking about LGBT issues 24/7! Geesh we're still students, college is stressful enough. For my last point I'd just like to say that society in general stereotypes LGBT people mainly due to a total lack of understanding. It's okay for yourself who isn't as extrovert and "camp", you can blend in with society; people may never suspect you're even gay. Myself and countless others don't managed that and thus we are nearly forced to come out at an earlier age and that is fücking hard I can tell you! I think in the LGBT community, that stereotypes are counter-productive and just drag us back. I'm an optimistic person who looks forward. Are you?

Daniel (who is also a ginger and likes kicking people and screaming at them when things don't go his way! Grr us gingers are so stereotyped! :S)

Note: This is my own personal view and does not reflect LGBT soc's view. In fact, many LGBT people tend to be so free
thinking that it's hard to ever have one view they can agree upon!

muboop1

I didn't read the last two posts(read the rest do) as the amount of text seemed to just hurt my head(its been a long day of non stop reading...)

I'm straight, and when I was in first year my at the time gf was mates with someone in LGBT, so we(her and I was dragged) were invited along to one event. Cant remember specifics.

It was grand. One guy got to me, but that was just cos he seemed to point out he was gay to me every few sentences(I got it... once was enough). Tbh he seemed a tool, but sure, aren't there people like that in every society?

On the whole they seemed nice. Granted I only went back once, but that was basically due to that one guy kept pestering me when i was there. Got irritating.

Admittedly when I was there there seemed to be some people over hyping up the camp thing, but whatever. People put on faces and act up to stereotypes everywhere. I think it is just the camp gay stereotype seems to be more loud in some cases?

It was irritating. Mainly due to I could ask the lads to quieten down as I didn't want to seem racist(not the right word but cant think of it now... anti-gay??). But if had of been a straight lad anywhere would of had no problem telling them to quieten a little!

Man but thats all tame. Stereotypes are everywhere in our lives. We are surrounded by posers everywhere. Go, sure there will be posers but you will find like minded people there. And maybe if you are there next time someone comes along new, you will talk to them and if they arent into stereotypes, they will see you and think, "hey this isn't so bad. Not all stereotypes! could enjoy myself here" you could end up with a little possie of like minded people in no time. All it takes is one to start a trend

ciaran29391

I'm posting this reply to my own thread after reflecting on what I have said,

As I haven't been participating much in the LGBT, I retract and apologise for branding stereotypes; as I have gone by other peoples opinion rather than endeavour to attend events and form my own opinion.
And for that ignorance I cannot apologise enough!

I had reasons for not attending, which was mainly not having many gay friends.
I know this is self alienating, and I have decided to try to participate fully in the LGBT to change this, if they would have me! (next semester)

Again, Apologies to the UCD LGBT, and anyone who I might have offended for my slight ignorance and jumping to conclusions.

abi dennis

Come along tonight I'm sure you got the email (and im pretty sure somebody already posted it somewere already in this thread) the more the merrier and u can see we're acutally quite a nice bunch

fla_fla_fla

Cubscout wrote: »

I really regret not joining this, I have no gay friends at all(let alone in UCD), feel kind of alienated I suppose. I don't care for stereotypes really, I am just kicking myself for not availing of LGBT society.:mad:

That's a perfect reason to join! The LGBT has many members, and many events. They keep in touch with me over Facebook and newsletters on a weekly basis in regards to these event. While I have heard of a lot of people who fail to get these due to technical issues - if people choose not to go to these events and try to make up excuses likw "stereotypes" and bla, bla, bla....well that's THEIR problem.

The commitee are all great people because they all work really hard on the society, and they're even better when you get to know them! The UCD LGBT have done a lot for me, and they've boosted my confidence along with many others, and this is why I URGE you to join!

As for the others p***ks who choose to slag the LGBT off for being "stereotypes", you're just making a stereotype of yourselves! I believe the word you were looking for is "personaliy" ---> I suggest you look into getting one yourself!