How do fortune tellers know the future?

MrMojoRisin

Dave! wrote: »

But read any of the threads in this forum and they'll full of people giving their experiences of successful readings, "omg go see Mary in Athlone, she's amazing, she knew I was wearing odd socks even though I had on an ankle-length skirt, it's a miracle! :eek: "

LMAO!! :pac: :pac:

MrMojoRisin

Dave! wrote: »

No there's not.

I reckon if Derren Brown sat down to tell you your fortune, you'd leave thinking he had some psychic skills, when in reality he would have used standard cold-reading techniques.

You would have subconsciously helped him along and filled in the spaces, and he would have concealed any 'misses' and emphasised any 'hits'.

Plus most of the people who visit these charlatans do so because they believe in psychic abilities in the first place, or else have some emotional needs stemming from some event in their lives (a death or whatever), so you'll rarely leave disappointed when you go in expecting to be read. Wouldn't surprise me if it's something relating to the ideomotor effect.

It's like those gimps who went down to Knock expecting to see the apparition of 'our lady' a while back. After standing around staring at the sun all day, a handful of people saw some sort of visual abnormality in the sky, as their retinas were beginning to dissolve, so therefore it must have been our lady, in swirly radioactive form !

Those who don't walk into a psychic with tears streaming down their face and holding a photo of their deceased relative will just be duped by the usual cold-reading techniques.

Plus, if the reading is less than satisfactory, and the 'psychic' fails to make anything click with the person they are reading, the person won't go singing from the rooftops about it, will they? They'll probably just tell a couple of mates "yeah that was sh*te" and go onto someone else. But read any of the threads in this forum and they'll full of people giving their experiences of successful readings, "omg go see Mary in Athlone, she's amazing, she knew I was wearing odd socks even though I had on an ankle-length skirt, it's a miracle! :eek: "

Anyways, yeah, bullshizzle.

Ah, but come on. Like, taking the case of my mate Anthony who was told all this precise stuff that would never be searchable on the Net or heard from someone's friend-of-a-friend's-cousin who told the medium personal info. Anthony isn't the world's most talkative bloke and especially around people he hasn't met before (and especially someone callin himself a medium). So he said nothing. How can you cold read someone to find out that that person's father's name was Declan and that his sister planted a rose bush in the back garden, and how can you get the exact month and year that his father died and what he died from as well? Nothing vague about it. Can Derren Brown do that?

carolinespring

lmao wrote: »

I feel sorry for people who waste their money on these people! It is nothing more than preying on the vulnerable. I remember hearing Keith Barry on Gerry Ryan challenging any fortune teller to ring in and tell hin the common irish name he was thinking of ( for return of €10,000 cash). In 1 hour he was on the show not 1 fortune teller rang in! The biggest scam is the premium phone lines! Why would anybody ring this ?????

Because they are sad, lonely and are looking for any glimmer of hope. I know someone who spent a fortune calling them when she was in a really dark place in her life and when she talks about it now she says it was just so that someone would tell her things would get better. They really should be banned.

I do believe some people do have a second sight and can know/feel thing that will happen. A lot of it is just money making rubbish

blackbetty69

but derren brown always states that he is not a psychic before he does these acts.. he uses symbols that trigger the mind subconsciously

Dave!

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

Ah, but come on. Like, taking the case of my mate Anthony who was told all this precise stuff that would never be searchable on the Net or heard from someone's friend-of-a-friend's-cousin who told the medium personal info. Anthony isn't the world's most talkative bloke and especially around people he hasn't met before (and especially someone callin himself a medium). So he said nothing. How can you cold read someone to find out that that person's father's name was Declan and that his sister planted a rose bush in the back garden, and how can you get the exact month and year that his father died and what he died from as well? Nothing vague about it. Can Derren Brown do that?

Perhaps she happened to know/know of his father unbeknownst to your friend

MrMojoRisin

blackbetty69 wrote: »

but derren brown always states that he is not a psychic before he does these acts.. he uses symbols that trigger the mind subconsciously

Oh, I know that. I've known that for years.

MrMojoRisin

Dave! wrote: »

Perhaps she happened to know/know of his father unbeknownst to your friend

The medium was a bloke who lives several counties away from Anthony and his sister. When Anthony first got yer man's number from a friend of his who just saw his website (and hadn't seen him for a reading),he hadn't heard of him before. The sister was like "Who?" when Anthony was sayin to her what happened inside with him as well. So it's very, very unlikely yer man (medium) knew any of them.

bleg

It is physically impossible to tell the future

MrMojoRisin

bleg wrote: »

It is physically impossible to tell the future

I dunno.. Billy Martin seems to be able to predict the future alright. Maybe you should pay him a visit and find out for yourself?

blue42

bleg wrote: »

It is physically impossible to tell the future

physically yes......psychicly who knows!

Dave!

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

The medium was a bloke who lives several counties away from Anthony and his sister. When Anthony first got yer man's number from a friend of his who just saw his website (and hadn't seen him for a reading),he hadn't heard of him before. The sister was like "Who?" when Anthony was sayin to her what happened inside with him as well. So it's very, very unlikely yer man (medium) knew any of them.

Regardless, I can't really comment on a specific case that some person tells me on the internet

I'd have to take your word that
a. It actually happened and the fella wasn't made up to support your beliefs
b. Anthony didn't embelish what happened and what was said for his own reasons
c. He sat there stoicly without saying a word or giving away any information
d. There was no way the psychic might have already known the information
e. You're not embelishing the story slightly

But speaking in general:
a. It's never been demonstrated scientifically that anybody can tell the future
b. Nobody has ever successfully done so under controlled conditions
c. It's been shown that cold reading is an effective way of giving the impression that you are psychic
d. Lots of alleged psychics clearly use these techniques in their readings

So I find anecdotal stories from random people on the internet to be somewhat unconvincing, but nevertheless interesting !

stepdoyle

be nice if an actual fortune teller posted a reply here to the original question. ie do the see things in their head, is it a feeling or just rely on the interpretation of random cards. Think that was the main jist of the guy who started it and not a debate on cold reading etc. Not saying whos right or wrong but be interesting to hear from someone who is a psychic or fortune teller.

MrMojoRisin

Dave! wrote: »

Regardless, I can't really comment on a specific case that some person tells me on the internet

I'd have to take your word that
a. It actually happened and the fella wasn't made up to support your beliefs
b. Anthony didn't embelish what happened and what was said for his own reasons
c. He sat there stoicly without saying a word or giving away any information
d. There was no way the psychic might have already known the information
e. You're not embelishing the story slightly

But speaking in general:
a. It's never been demonstrated scientifically that anybody can tell the future
b. Nobody has ever successfully done so under controlled conditions
c. It's been shown that cold reading is an effective way of giving the impression that you are psychic
d. Lots of alleged psychics clearly use these techniques in their readings

So I find anecdotal stories from random people on the internet to be somewhat unconvincing, but nevertheless interesting !

I see where you're coming from and I'm aware of all of the above,but I'm not in the habit of creating stories (and people) to 'support my beliefs'. My beliefs were informed by experiences of mine from an early age to begin with. I can't put the apple cart before the horse - that isn't how I operate.

I've been through the 'lack/absence-of-empirical-evidence-of-future-predictions-being-made-psychically' time and again, and I'm fairly exasperated at this stage that it hasn't been demonstrated as being possible under strict lab test conditions yet. I don't know what the f uck is happening. Well,if I ever turn into a psychic all of a sudden during my lifetime,you can be sure I'll work flat out with scientists to nail irrefutable evidence of all of it being the real McCoy. I'd probably look forward to going through all the rigours, tbh.

MrMojoRisin

blue42 wrote: »

physically yes......psychicly who knows!

That's true - the psychical and the physical are two distinct, separate camps. The earthly physical plane has little bearing on anything of a psychical nature because our traditional physical laws are obsolete in the fourth dimension. It's practically impossible to reconcile the two - it's like trying to blend oil with water, though the two will run parallel to each other and make contact occasionally at most.

BeatNikDub

skeptics forum?

me_right_one

MrMojoRisin wrote: »

That's true - the psychical and the physical are two distinct, separate camps. The earthly physical plane has little bearing on anything of a psychical nature because our traditional physical laws are obsolete in the fourth dimension. It's practically impossible to reconcile the two - it's like trying to blend oil with water, though the two will run parallel to each other and make contact occasionally at most.

The fourth dimension is time. Then there's 6 more physical ones, possibly even more. I think you mean the 11th dimension:D

Oryx

stepdoyle wrote: »

be nice if an actual fortune teller posted a reply here to the original question. ie do the see things in their head, is it a feeling or just rely on the interpretation of random cards. Think that was the main jist of the guy who started it and not a debate on cold reading etc. Not saying whos right or wrong but be interesting to hear from someone who is a psychic or fortune teller.

I would completely welcome that too, it would be very interesting.

If someone does come forward to explain how they work, anyone of a skeptical mindset will have to remember to be respectful. Any experiences given first hand by readers must be accepted at face value. I wont allow any disparaging remarks towards any poster who offers their experiences. K?

Nevyn

stepdoyle wrote: »

be nice if an actual fortune teller posted a reply here to the original question. ie do the see things in their head, is it a feeling or just rely on the interpretation of random cards. Think that was the main jist of the guy who started it and not a debate on cold reading etc. Not saying whos right or wrong but be interesting to hear from someone who is a psychic or fortune teller.

In terms of working with tarot cards I don't believe that the ones which come up are random and when you learn the meanings of them there is a hell of a lot information in the cards which piece together a story.

There will be a few things associated with each card and as for which one holds more true then others it's like you know that is the attribute which fits
it's a feeling like intuition like knowing who is on your phone before you get to it when it rings.

I've done readings for someone over msn to test myself and didn't ask them any pre scripted cold readings and I was stunned at how well it went.

In person it's either a lot easer or a lot harder depending on the person's focus and how easy it is to read them and their energy. I know certain amount of this is due to being able to read body language and I'm pretty apt with that but there are times when I just know things about a person that I shouldn't/couldn't know and it still very weird and freaky at times.

MrMojoRisin

me_right_one wrote: »

The fourth dimension is time. Then there's 6 more physical ones, possibly even more. I think you mean the 11th dimension:D

I wasn't going on about the fourth dimension in the traditional scientific sense,e.g adding a fourth axis at right-angles to the existing three axes we have, hyperspace, wormholes, vectors, etc, etc. I did mean what I meant, but from a more esoteric viewpoint. But isn't it supposed to be straightforward to analyse anything that's of the fourth dimension mathematically? If that's really the case, then why isn't there a firm grasp of anything paranormal that might be in this fourth dimension by now? And no, the answer, 'because the paranormal is all a heap of sh ite' isnt helpful but thanks all the same anyway.

In more 'paranormal' terms, the fourth dimension is said to be a higher range of frequency where anything of an earthly nature is transmuted. It's the astral plane. Referring to it as a place where time is found is tricky because most people's firsthand experiences of a 'paranormal' nature tend to have featured inexplicably lapsed periods of time - they only realise this because they later compare the experience they had (whatever the hell it was) to the frame of reference we have for time here on earth. On that basis, I'd personally reject the notion that time is in the fourth dimension, though you could argue that the sense of time we all usually experience and adhere to is illusory; that true time is in the fourth dimension.

I think the fourth dimension co-exists and is parallel to the third dimension (earth).

the_syco

Dave! wrote: »

Plus most of the people who visit these charlatans do so because they believe in psychic abilities in the first place, or else have some emotional needs stemming from some event in their lives (a death or whatever), so you'll rarely leave disappointed when you go in expecting to be read. Wouldn't surprise me if it's something relating to the ideomotor effect.

Some people pray to two planks of wood nailed together for divine intervention.

Herbal Deity

Thaedydal wrote: »

In terms of working with tarot cards I don't believe that the ones which come up are random and when you learn the meanings of them there is a hell of a lot information in the cards which piece together a story.

There will be a few things associated with each card and as for which one holds more true then others it's like you know that is the attribute which fits
it's a feeling like intuition like knowing who is on your phone before you get to it when it rings.

Would you accept the possibility that confirmation bias may be a feature of tarot readings?

If you don't think that the cards that come up are random, do you think that they somehow rearrange themselves after being shuffled, or that some mystical "force" causes the shuffler to shuffle them into the correct order for the person who the reading is being done for?

kryogen

Thaedydal wrote: »

In terms of working with tarot cards I don't believe that the ones which come up are random and when you learn the meanings of them there is a hell of a lot information in the cards which piece together a story.

There will be a few things associated with each card and as for which one holds more true then others it's like you know that is the attribute which fits
it's a feeling like intuition like knowing who is on your phone before you get to it when it rings.

I've done readings for someone over msn to test myself and didn't ask them any pre scripted cold readings and I was stunned at how well it went.

In person it's either a lot easer or a lot harder depending on the person's focus and how easy it is to read them and their energy. I know certain amount of this is due to being able to read body language and I'm pretty apt with that but there are times when I just know things about a person that I shouldn't/couldn't know and it still very weird and freaky at times.

any chance of getting one of those online readings so i can get a little glimpse at what its like?

developing a curiousity in the subject, quite sceptical of it tbh

Buffy the bitch

Dave! wrote: »

It's nonsense, bullsh*t, etc., for all the reasons already mentioned.

Wouldn't mind giving it a try some time though, just to experience what it's like.

I find it funny how you thnik it's bullsh*t yet you've never been to one

Anyways I'll be honest I never believed in them but my mother use to always go to a certain guy who she claimed was very good. I was your typical bloke I don't believe in that crap you make your own future etc etc.

Then one I decided to go to him and trust me he knew everything about me past, present and future. I wasn't finishing his sentences. He knew everything. I'll be honest I was in court for a very serious charge which I was expecting jail, he knew straight away and there was no way in hell he could've known he was even able to say I was getting a suspended sentence when my solicitor was saying I was getting jail. He was able to tell me in 6 months time the girl I was with was gonna get pregnant and the child was a girl.

I don't believe for one second that these lines you ring actually work but believe me there are certain people who can read your future in a certain way.

Nevyn

kryogen wrote: »

any chance of getting one of those online readings so i can get a little glimpse at what its like?

developing a curiousity in the subject, quite sceptical of it tbh

Given the amount of posts you have on boards and how much information I could be said to cull from them I don't see how it would prove much.

I am pretty skeptical myself and dont' see hte point in doing a trial with out it being a double blind.

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Would you accept the possibility that confirmation bias may be a feature of tarot readings?

If you don't think that the cards that come up are random, do you think that they somehow rearrange themselves after being shuffled, or that some mystical "force" causes the shuffler to shuffle them into the correct order for the person who the reading is being done for?

I don't think it is a mystical force, I think that it's quantum or chaos theory related.

MrMojoRisin

BeatNikDub wrote: »

skeptics forum?

Yeah what about it?

CrinkElite

Buffy the bitch wrote: »

Anyways I'll be honest I never believed in them but my mother use to always go to a certain guy who she claimed was very good.
T

Buffy the bitch wrote: »

Then one I decided to go to him and trust me he knew everything about me past, present and future. I wasn't finishing his sentences.

For God's sake man! He was getting all his info from your mother. Put 2 & 2 together ta fcuk.

princess-lala

I went to my first one in March and he told me things about me that even my closest friends wouldnt have known. He told me about my ex who had died, he told me where he died, how he died, what he was wearing when he died :eek:

He told me all about my business and even told me the date I opened! Told me about an ongoing family row and the reason it started!

I didnt know anybody who had seen him and all I did when booking was give my surname ( I walked in and he called me Laura) I drove 45miles to see him!

Ruth KPS

princess-lala wrote: »

I didnt know anybody who had seen him and all I did when booking was give my surname ( I walked in and he called me Laura) I drove 45miles to see him!

Hiya,


Just out of curiosity where is he based?

princess-lala

Ruth KPS wrote: »

Hiya,


Just out of curiosity where is he based?

Trim, just outside Navan!