I have a question for the mod's

HandWS LTD

Hey guy's,

I know the history of web hosting forums was bad in the past but the are still some threads asking about this.

I believe that maybe you should now consider opening them after a long time out. Also, a much more stricter rules for those who argue in these forums should be given. 3 warnings or they are out of boards.ie altogether.

How do you feel about this? I only ask this because of people still asking these question in the Design and SEO forums.

Please have a serious think about this.

Seth Brundle

Would it not be easier if users were shown a list of web hosts?
Or is it specific hosting type Qs that you want?

MiCr0

this is prob better suited here

tomED

Personally I think it would be better to open the discussions again without "pimping". Anyone caught pimping should be banned full stop.

There are many questions around hosting and recommendations for hosting - it's a bit unfair that no-one can discuss it. We're all paying for the fact that these competiting businesses' couldn't get along.

But for everyone else - I think it's only fair that people can recommend with a bit of transparency.

That's my two cents anyway... It's unlikely anything will change though!

Cabaal

I'd understand if a normal user was looking for a web host forum to re-open but when a company is suggesting it it looks like they just want to pimp their business....no offense but this is what it looks like.

tomED

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd understand if a normal user was looking for a web host forum to re-open but when a company is suggesting it it looks like they just want to pimp their business....no offense but this is what it looks like.

I see where you are coming from re: HWS, but I just want to throw something out there.

If you look at a lot of the threads that are started, generally it's a lot of people that hardly even know they need hosting - there's a clear need for answers to questions relating to hosting.

The last thing anyone of us want is more pimping, but there's no reason why this can't be prevented - with strict enough rules.

HandWS LTD

tomED wrote: »

I see where you are coming from re: HWS, but I just want to throw something out there.

If you look at a lot of the threads that are started, generally it's a lot of people that hardly even know they need hosting - there's a clear need for answers to questions relating to hosting.

The last thing anyone of us want is more pimping, but there's no reason why this can't be prevented - with strict enough rules.

hear hear......therefore those threads can be moved out of the design and seo threads. If i was a user i would leave due to the pimping and not bother with anyone of them coz thats trouble makers for you. We want it clean.

Lets see if the other hosting companies on the forums will stand by that. This is a BIG ask after what happened years ago.

HandWS LTD

Cabaal wrote: »

I'd understand if a normal user was looking for a web host forum to re-open but when a company is suggesting it it looks like they just want to pimp their business....no offense but this is what it looks like.

Hi Cabaal,

You have a fair point when a company asks this. But that is not on my mind. I want to help people that has hosting and domain name questions. People require these questions and when new users look in the hosting threads its based back in 2002. So they have to place their threads in the design or seo forums. Surely it dosen't look good that way.

This is why i have asked for consideration in opening it again and HAVE stricter rules on pimping. Surely, this is understandable and a good point.

One thing i would be agains't is the hosting company(s) posting links that will help them e.g what Blacknight did in one post, so i provided a better link. As Blacknight has mentioned that we are on top of the list we showed. But he's on top of the other. No wonder he uses that alot. That is called pimping. That is one rule that SHOULD have strict conditions around.

Darragh

HandWSLtd,

If we allow this discussion, would you be happy to participate if we removed all of the links in your username and signature?

You've been toeing the line in certain forums and are in danger of being infracted at the very least, if not banned for trying to promote your business, by leaving seemingly innocent posts in forums talking about Blacknight for example.

Similarly, though it's not Boards.ie related, I'd have to question your motives given tweets like this - http://twitter.com/HostingWebSolut/statuses/5737964013

Edit: Deleted tweet screenshot:



I'd be interested in your reply.

Darragh

tomED

Darragh wrote: »

Similarly, though it's not Boards.ie related, I'd have to question your motives given tweets like this - http://twitter.com/HostingWebSolut/statuses/5737964013

Definitely an ulterior motive then.... crazy stuff...

HandWS LTD

I admit...i did it but then deleted it from the original as i soon as i read the post from the original place and it was not a good idea and unfair.

However, i do not use twitter and haven't login for a long time. That post was extracted from the original place and was not deleted auto, it's now deleted. And will NOT be happening again.

tomED

HandWS LTD wrote: »

I admit...i did it but then deleted it from the original as i soon as i read the post from the original place and it was not a good idea and unfair.

In fairness, if you resort to these tactics at all - it's not something that will ever stand to you. It looks as if you're willing to play just as dirty tactics as those that caused the forum to be closed in the first place.

HandWS LTD

tomED wrote: »

In fairness, if you resort to these tactics at all - it's not something that will ever stand to you. It looks as if you're willing to play just as dirty tactics as those that caused the forum to be closed in the first place.

Exactly. This was why i got rid of it. Dirty tactic's are gone.

However, this is not the point of this thread. My point is mainly trying to get boards.ie to consider it to stop what happened in the past. People need this....not me. Also, i recommended to have strict rules for the web hosting forums....like that thread plus external social media stuff and dirty tactic etc.

So we can all cop on for the sake of making boards.ie better than it was and easier for the users to find the proper information required.

Darragh

But okay, let's start this conversation again.

Would you take part if you weren't allowed use your company name or link to it in your signature?

The last thing I need is companies outbidding each other or downplaying others. It doesn't help.

Blacknight have been great members and advisors to Boards.ie members since April 2001. They deserve the right to be on our site, advising people and that's why we gave them their own forum and the "Official representative" badge, which is our mark of trust in them.

Have you ever contacted Boards.ie to advertise, Brian? Officially, like?

I'm not at all happy about this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055734606 - you come along, "correcting" a member who has been around for over 8 years and link to an external website and think what you did is okay?

Have you contacted sales@boards.ie at all?

Darragh

Seth Brundle

As someone able to stand from the sidelines on this, I find it amusing that the person who is calling for the re-opening of the hosting forum as recently as yesterday, posted the above about someone else in the business. Why on earth would the mods/admins agree to a request of this nature?

Although I would like to see the forum repoened (or at least the possibility for hosting discussions) myself, there are too many out there that will rush in and make claims that will result in its rapid closure once again!

mneylon

$random user asks question about hosting / domain registration

I point $user at the thread which the mods have been maintaining for years which contains a list of links.

I then get snide comments from you

You then go posting snide and potentially libellous comments about me personally both on boards.ie, Facebook and Twitter

Edit: and just for clarification - that post is aimed at HandWS LTD

HandWS LTD

Darragh wrote: »

But okay, let's start this conversation again.

Would you take part if you weren't allowed use your company name or link to it in your signature?

The last thing I need is companies outbidding each other or downplaying others. It doesn't help.

Blacknight have been great members and advisors to Boards.ie members since April 2001. They deserve the right to be on our site, advising people and that's why we gave them their own forum and the "Official representative" badge, which is our mark of trust in them.

Have you ever contacted Boards.ie to advertise, Brian? Officially, like?

I'm not at all happy about this thread: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055734606 - you come along, "correcting" a member who has been around for over 8 years and link to an external website and think what you did is okay?

Have you contacted sales@boards.ie at all?

Darragh

Ok...Does this involve not just me but all other companies involved in the web hosting forums?? If they agree, then i will agree. But i can't see that happenning. Only way to find out is ask around.

I understand what you said about blacknight. But as he's top of the list....he's using that to his advantage to get back at the others. All i posted from the external link was a list of more of them that was not added to the boards.ie. And that is something people want.

I HAVE sent an email in the past to boards.ie asking to become an official representative. I'm pretty sure it was sent to sales@boards.ie.

Nerin

when digiweb gave me a years free hosting,it was someone working for blacknight that gave me pointers on starting out. they've proven themselves to me through that,but also because they had the thumbs up from boards for a long time. tbh i don't get such a good vibe here from the others. /honesty

HandWS LTD

Blacknight wrote: »

$random user asks question about hosting / domain registration

I point $user at the thread which the mods have been maintaining for years which contains a list of links.

I then get snide comments from you

You then go posting snide and potentially libellous comments about me personally both on boards.ie, Facebook and Twitter

Edit: and just for clarification - that post is aimed at HandWS LTD

Blacknight....my comment was only saying that it was not updated and pointed them to another list with more companies involved. I stand corrected for that.

They were not snide remarks, compared to yours. I apologise about the social media. I only did that after your comments but deleted it straight away as it was not right and forgot that it would be extracted by twitter. I apologise again as it will not happen.

The Corinthian

I'm not sure if reopening the Web Hosting board is such a good idea. It might be as the business landscape there has changed in Ireland since it was last open, but then again it might not.

There are numerous problems with such a board, of which the main one is those involved in hosting. I don't necessarily mean the hosts themselves, it can also be resellers and even developers who will launch into a libellous rant, which then causes the hosting companies to get involved because they all quietly monitor discussions. The whole thing can become a complete clusterfsck very quickly.

Given this perhaps things have changed. Not all the same players are still around (some hosts were amongst the worst troublemakers) and those who are may have grown out of the personality politics that blighted the board five years ago or so. Or maybe not.

What is it about the hosting business that attracts these sorts?

Disclaimer: I actually am good friends with a number of people in the hosting business and actually think they're a nice and normal bunch as long as they're kept apart.

Darragh

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Ok...Does this involve not just me but all other companies involved in the web hosting forums?? If they agree, then i will agree. But i can't see that happenning. Only way to find out is ask around.

I understand what you said about blacknight. But as he's top of the list....he's using that to his advantage to get back at the others. All i posted from the external link was a list of more of them that was not added to the boards.ie. And that is something people want.

I HAVE sent an email in the past to boards.ie asking to become an official representative. I'm pretty sure it was sent to sales@boards.ie.

To become an official representative, we ask companies that don't have a track record on Boards.ie, or who haven't been requested by Boards.ie members to take at least 6 weeks advertising with us. Please contact sales@boards.ie for details of our advertising rates.

The list that is being referred to - if you have any queries about it, please raise them with the moderators of that forum.

Kind regards

Darragh

tricky D

Hosting 'discussion' almost always descends into farce and looking at some stuff in this thread alone fills anyone who's seen it before with zero confidence.

As for Blacknight, more given to than taken from in this community (and others) imnsho.

Iron gates, anyone???

HandWS LTD

The Corinthian wrote: »

I'm not sure if reopening the Web Hosting board is such a good idea. It might be as the business landscape there has changed in Ireland since it was last open, but then again it might not.

There are numerous problems with such a board, of which the main one is those involved in hosting. I don't necessarily mean the hosts themselves, it can also be resellers and even developers who will launch into a libellous rant, which then causes the hosting companies to get involved because they all quietly monitor discussions. The whole thing can become a complete clusterfsck very quickly.

Given this perhaps things have changed. Not all the same players are still around (some hosts were amongst the worst troublemakers) and those who are may have grown out of the personality politics that blighted the board five years ago or so. Or maybe not.

What is it about the hosting business that attracts these sorts?

Disclaimer: I actually am good friends with a number of people in the hosting business and actually think they're a nice and normal bunch as long as they're kept apart.

You are right that it can cause that. But as boards.ie have the power to stop this and look very closely to see if it can work again....then great all round for the users...as they have to post elsewhere which is probably confusing them. If the same thing happens with the new strict rules if there is one ..... then they can ban them for good. They might try again.....but they'll be caught.

Overheal

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Blacknight....my comment was only saying that it was not updated and pointed them to another list with more companies involved. I stand corrected for that.

They were not snide remarks, compared to yours. I apologise about the social media. I only did that after your comments but deleted it straight away as it was not right and forgot that it would be extracted by twitter. I apologise again as it will not happen.

As the outside observer, you're trying to run a business. Act like a professional. Its always nice to think about what you're doing before you act.

That tweet and your reported behavior afai-see was bull$hit. And apologizing for it is an empty gesture at this point. Turn a new leaf and take Darragh's advice on board.

I dont do Web Hosting, I dont do Websites. But I do notice every other forum - broadband, laptops, etc. all run great with users coming in commenting and criticizing different brands goods and services and from time to time we get the odd Hewlett Packard rep come on the laptop forum as a Joe Schmoe to give people help without resorting to slinging mud or ever mentioning a competitor. Why WH doesnt work like that, I dont know. But it should.

HandWS LTD

Overheal wrote: »

As the outside observer, you're trying to run a business. Act like a professional. Its always nice to think about what you're doing before you act.

That tweet and your reported behavior afai-see was bull$hit. And apologizing for it is an empty gesture at this point. Turn a new leaf and take Darragh's advice on board.

I dont do Web Hosting, I dont do Websites. But I do notice every other forum - broadband, laptops, etc. all run great with users coming in commenting and criticizing different brands goods and services and from time to time we get the odd Hewlett Packard rep come on the laptop forum as a Joe Schmoe to give people help without resorting to slinging mud or ever mentioning a competitor. Why WH doesnt work like that, I dont know. But it should.

Thats exactly what it should be like....hopefully the other web hosts can go with it. As we are for it and it'll be much easier for the users. As for the tweet.......it sure was bull****. But NOBODY did anything as i took it straight off.

Seth Brundle

HandWS LTD wrote: »

You are right that it can cause that. But as boards.ie have the power to stop this and look very closely to see if it can work again....then great all round for the users...as they have to post elsewhere which is probably confusing them. If the same thing happens with the new strict rules if there is one ..... then they can ban them for good. They might try again.....but they'll be caught.

3rd time reading this and I think I now kind of understand what it says!

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Thats exactly what it should be like....hopefully the other web hosts can go with it. As we are for it and it'll be much easier for the users. As for the tweet.......it sure was bull****. But NOBODY did anything as i took it straight off.

The tweet is IMO a reflection of how you would act on boards (*in my opinion*). Will posts (by any users) in the same kind of vein as your tweet cause extra work for boards and/or could it result in libel?

The Corinthian

Overheal wrote: »

I dont do Web Hosting, I dont do Websites. But I do notice every other forum - broadband, laptops, etc. all run great with users coming in commenting and criticizing different brands goods and services and from time to time we get the odd Hewlett Packard rep come on the laptop forum as a Joe Schmoe to give people help without resorting to slinging mud or ever mentioning a competitor. Why WH doesnt work like that, I dont know. But it should.

I suspect because Web hosting is composed of a small number of players, who take their business very personally, unlike large corporations like HP. Many of the arguments tended to devolve into thinly veiled ad hominem attacks, with personal vendettas surfacing or forming as a result.

Web hosting, just seems to be one of those 'special cases' that defies reason, TBH. As such, it deserves 'special treatment'.

HandWS LTD wrote: »

You are right that it can cause that. But as boards.ie have the power to stop this and look very closely to see if it can work again....then great all round for the users...as they have to post elsewhere which is probably confusing them. If the same thing happens with the new strict rules if there is one ..... then they can ban them for good. They might try again.....but they'll be caught.

I do not have the time to babysit a bunch of overgrown kids who want to libel each other. Neither do any other moderators or the admins, I suspect.

Moderation is a voluntary activity and time consuming enough without having to be present 24/7, as was necessary in the past, lest Boards suffer a far worse consequence, in the shape of legal action, than it would because of some hair-brained kiddies on After Hours.

If I felt that people could generally behave I would agree with the board's reopening, however from what I have read here, I'd have my doubts and could see it devolving within a week.

HandWS LTD

kbannon wrote: »

3rd time reading this and I think I now kind of understand what it says!

The tweet is IMO a reflection of how you would act on boards (*in my opinion*). Will posts (by any users) in the same kind of vein as your tweet cause extra work for boards and/or could it result in libel?

It may cause extra work....just like that tweet was found. But won't that make boards.ie better if the web hosting was opened. I wasn't around in the past to know what happened but i wanna make this work. If the others will then....it will come to boards.ie advantage.

Seth Brundle

HandWS LTD wrote: »

It may cause extra work....just like that tweet was found. But won't that make boards.ie better if the web hosting was opened. I wasn't around in the past to know what happened but i wanna make this work. If the others will then....it will come to boards.ie advantage.

I moderate on here for nothing (as do all the other mods & admins) Why should we have to work harder in ourrespective forums so that people can come along and post crap about other providers? Personally had soimehting like your tweet appears inone of the motoring forums, you'd have been banned with no second thought!

As for making it work, I haven't seen any evidence of this from you. Make an effort on boards before you want to start using it as a marketing tool (which I take for granted is your sole reason for this thread)!

HandWS LTD

The Corinthian wrote: »

I suspect because Web hosting is composed of a small number of players, who take their business very personally, unlike large corporations like HP. Many of the arguments tended to devolve into thinly veiled ad hominem attacks, with personal vendettas surfacing or forming as a result.

Web hosting, just seems to be one of those 'special cases' that defies reason, TBH. As such, it deserves 'special treatment'.

I do not have the time to babysit a bunch of overgrown kids who want to libel each other. Neither do any other moderators or the admins, I suspect.

Moderation is a voluntary activity and time consuming enough without having to be present 24/7, as was necessary in the past, lest Boards suffer a far worse consequence, in the shape of legal action, than it would because of some hair-brained kiddies on After Hours.

If I felt that people could generally behave I would agree with the board's reopening, however from what I have read here, I'd have my doubts and could see it devolving within a week.

Fair point....it may be tough to start with but you have the power to ban them. So it can be decent and better. If it starts bad then it will eventually calm down. I don't intend to cause any offence to another web host. The first thing i'll do if something i think has sort of infected me, is ask a mod if i can post this or not. So thats one person's opinion. If the others will do the same surely thats good for you.

Try a trial. Doubts are part of everything, but you'll never know until you try.

HandWS LTD

kbannon wrote: »

As for making it work, I haven't seen any evidence of this from you. Make an effort on boards before you want to start using it as a marketing tool (which I take for granted is your sole reason for this thread)!

You have my word. Did you look in the design and seo thread where i have been helping others? This is evidence. You can ban me straight away if i show any bad things on the web host forum. This is a recommendation...surely it should be considered as most of those who were around then are either grown up or moved on.

tomED

The Corinthian wrote: »

I do not have the time to babysit a bunch of overgrown kids who want to libel each other. Neither do any other moderators or the admins, I suspect.

And nor should you have to!

The Corinthian wrote: »

If I felt that people could generally behave I would agree with the board's reopening, however from what I have read here, I'd have my doubts and could see it devolving within a week.

Damn, for once I'm actually agreeing with a mod.... :P

Seriously though, I think this thread shows exactly why the hosting forum should stay closed for the forseeable future...

Although I would love it to be back open, this thread clearly shows that we still have a long way to go before it's safe to do so.

HandWS LTD

tomED wrote: »

And nor should you have to!



Damn, for once I'm actually agreeing with a mod.... :P

Seriously though, I think this thread shows exactly why the hosting forum should stay closed for the forseeable future...

Although I would love it to be back open, this thread clearly shows that we still have a long way to go before it's safe to do so.

Ok...you were for it before you saw that tweet. I explained it....mistake. Would you have still been for it, if that didn't happen? Most forums abroad have made it work. Why not boards.ie? They can be better. The past is over. Things died down. Now its a chance to bring it back and HOPEFULLY its good and works. Plus it will be good and easier for the users to find the correct info.

tomED

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Ok...you were for it before you saw that tweet. I explained it....mistake. Would you have still been for it, if that didn't happen? Most forums abroad have made it work. Why not boards.ie? They can be better. The past is over. Things died down. Now its a chance to bring it back and HOPEFULLY its good and works. Plus it will be good and easier for the users to find the correct info.

I still am for it - but as I said, this thread (not only your tweet) shows that this topic ruffles a lot of peoples feathers with even the slightest mention of "hosting".

Makes sense not to reopen what is still clearly a sore subject for some people.

The Corinthian

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Fair point....it may be tough to start with but you have the power to ban them.

I think you missed the bit about not wanting to spend 24/7 moderating such a board.

If it starts bad then it will eventually calm down.

Last time is started bad and got worse. Why would it be different this time?

Try a trial. Doubts are part of everything, but you'll never know until you try.

We did. It failed.

However, that was some time ago, which is why I am keeping my own mind open to this. Given this, what I have read here and associated with this thread does not fill me with a warm fuzzy feeling. Admins call, TBH, although if we were to do a trial, I would not end it quickly - none of this 'wait for it to calm down' malarky.

HandWS LTD

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think you missed the bit about not wanting to spend 24/7 moderating such a board.

Last time is started bad and got worse. Why would it be different this time?

We did. It failed.

However, that was some time ago, which is why I am keeping my own mind open to this. Given this, what I have read here and associated with this thread does not fill me with a warm fuzzy feeling. Admins call, TBH, although if we were to do a trial, I would not end it quickly - none of this 'wait for it to calm down' malarky.

Oh, i see. You did try a trial. May i ask how long ago this was? 2003 or 2004? thats a good bit back and only a year or 2 after it was first put down. I'm not saying 24/7....is there a way that you can block all web hosting companies after a certain time...so it won't be 24/7..... Nice thought. Surely you can come up with something. I'd be willing to help.

The Corinthian

HandWS LTD wrote: »

I'd be willing to help.

How about you offer to underwrite all future libel damages? That would make things a lot easier for the mods/admins.

aidan_walsh

As the mod of the Design forum, sorry for only getting to this now. I haven't had a chance to check boards much in the last few days, work has been pretty hectic.

Hosting discussion is banned on the forum because of exactly the type of stuff that has been posted above. I wasn't a mod before the blanket ban was introduced, but I do recall how it was before that point. Simply, it was horrific. Recommendations would lead to arguments, accusations and/or FUD and misinformation, reverting to outright childishness on many occasions.

For a long time, any hosting discussion was banned. Now, I allow high level discussion along the lines of "what do I need to" for the likes of system requirements for installing and evaluating software packages. To this end, I believe that posters have plenty of room to get the answers they need to the questions they have without needing to go into company or package specifics.

Any issues where it starts to get specific to a host, I will refer the customer to their hosting provider. Recommendations for hosts (and by extension registrars, as they are often times one and the same) is still and will remain to be banned.

We do have the list of hosts available in the forum. It is an old thread, it has been running a while. However, as the post outlines I am always accepting submissions for it. HandWS himself asked to be added to it not moments after decrying it, and has indeed been added. The last edit made to it was today to update a hosts information.

This thread runs on a basis of open invitation - if you want in, PM me. Its not my job to go tracking down all the hosts operating out of Ireland.

tomED wrote:

Personally I think it would be better to open the discussions again without "pimping". Anyone caught pimping should be banned full stop.

HandsWS wrote:

This is why i have asked for consideration in opening it again and HAVE stricter rules on pimping.

Unfortunately, often times the posts that were causing problems didn't come just from other hosts but from their customers or former customers as well.

As for pimping, the rules are already as strict as they can get on it - Don't do it. I have and do ban posters for doing so, and despite the threads pointing out the ban, it happens regardless. I don't see what can change other than making potentially more work for myself by allowing the discussion again.

tomED wrote:

If you look at a lot of the threads that are started, generally it's a lot of people that hardly even know they need hosting - there's a clear need for answers to questions relating to hosting.

Again, as I have said above I do allow high level "what do I need" questions, but anything specific to a host or asking for recommendations for a host will not be permitted. For specific questions, the host is the best source of information.

HandWS wrote:

Lets see if the other hosting companies on the forums will stand by that. This is a BIG ask after what happened years ago.

Other than this point I will not be addressing what was discussed further up the thread, but this and other posts that I have seen elsewhere suggest to me that it won't be possible.

mneylon

I was actively involved with the hosting forum when it was open. I probably contributed to it being shut (as did everyone else)

Personally I can't see any valid reason for reopening it as it will become a mess very quickly

If people ask "general" questions about hosting on "related" fora and don't get into specifics with particular providers the moderators will allow it

The Irish hosting / domain business sector is tiny. Most of the major players have histories with each other - and not all of it is very positive.

It's kind of amusing in some respects. If you go to an ICANN meeting GoDaddy, Enom, Network Solutions and all the others get along very well together.

CoNfOuNd

It would be nice if webhosting discussion could be re-opened, but it is probably unrealistic unless all the webhosts who use it agree to a strict set of rules.

My own suggestion would be to expand the 'Where to get hosting' thread, so that in addition to listing the webhosts and webhosting directories, it could include more details about each webhost. In other words, each webhost could have a few lines where they could outline their amazing features and cheapest package, and people could continue to be directed to this thread. Thoughts?

HandWS LTD

The Corinthian wrote: »

How about you offer to underwrite all future libel damages? That would make things a lot easier for the mods/admins.

What do you mean exactly? We look after it full time? If you are asking me to become a mod.....then maybe.

I'm trying to give solutions to help it open....there are lots of ways that this can work But as Adrian and Blacknight and the other Mod's pointed out about the past....i do understand that what went on was terrible and opening it again may not happen. If there is a tiny chance, even when some people or mod's think that maybe it won't be as bad now....then more restrictions should be involved (i'm obviously repeating myself). I could be totally wrong there that it will not work at all.

Even i have been ask in the last few yrs where a suitable place for irish web hosting information is, as boards.ie did not offer much information. Now, this is causing alot of people to look elsewhere. So obviously boards.ie would want to be the best and want people to say that they found the information on their boards and not elsewhere.

2 of the points i mentioned should help if they haven't been used before. BLOCK ALL web hosting companies after a certain time (including official representatives) from the web hosting category e.g 6pm. And when a users asks about some hosting companies or recommendation for a hosting company to go with, then ONLY the mods can reply. Some ways to stop the pimping going on. Are the developers of boards.ie able to develop something like that?

A 3rd solution is that any post written to the web host forum will not be visable until it is viewed by a mod to be acceptable for the forum. They can only communicate with mods if not suitable and the mod's prob don't have to reply for a couple of days or so when they are free. If suitable then the other 2 points above comes into play or something like that. Does that make it easier?

HandWS LTD

CoNfOuNd wrote: »

It would be nice if webhosting discussion could be re-opened, but it is probably unrealistic unless all the webhosts who use it agree to a strict set of rules.

My own suggestion would be to expand the 'Where to get hosting' thread, so that in addition to listing the webhosts and webhosting directories, it could include more details about each webhost. In other words, each webhost could have a few lines where they could outline their amazing features and cheapest package, and people could continue to be directed to this thread. Thoughts?

Not a bad idea......the more ideas they get the more helpful it will become.

Gordon

HandWS LTD wrote: »

It may cause extra work....just like that tweet was found. But won't that make boards.ie better if the web hosting was opened.

No, it would be more work and there would be MUCH more noise as opposed to signal. The mods have got a tough enough job as it is without grown adults resorting to petty childishness. We have learned from our mistakes in the years we, as a site, have grown, and limiting web hosting specifics is one of those benefits we have gained.

aidan_walsh has given a decent middle ground to the web hosters, any more leniency and problems will start to happen. We're still open to suggestions of course, but I can't possibly think of a solution to stop the hosting squabbles, if it's a case of 'try it out' 'trust us just one last time' then I'd say no, sorry, been there, done that.

HandWS LTD

Gordon wrote: »

No, it would be more work and there would be MUCH more noise as opposed to signal. The mods have got a tough enough job as it is without grown adults resorting to petty childishness. We have learned from our mistakes in the years we, as a site, have grown, and limiting web hosting specifics is one of those benefits we have gained.

aidan_walsh has given a decent middle ground to the web hosters, any more leniency and problems will start to happen. We're still open to suggestions of course, but I can't possibly think of a solution to stop the hosting squabbles, if it's a case of 'try it out' 'trust us just one last time' then I'd say no, sorry, been there, done that.

I understand. I hate the bad stuff and sure hope it doesn't happen again. What do you think of the points mentioned that could help, like TomED's(about pimping), CoNfOuNd's and mine after his. They may be better ways in controlling it and limiting it BUT not opening it fully.

Gordon

HandWS LTD wrote: »

I understand. I hate the bad stuff and sure hope it doesn't happen again. What do you think of the points mentioned that could help, like TomED's(about pimping)

More work for mods and the errant users will find more cryptic and hidden ways of pimping by stretching and pushing the limits of acceptability.

CoNfOuNd's and mine after his.

The bit about stricter rules? Stricter rules means heavier moderation means more time spent modding. Why should mods have to spend more time if people can't play by the rules as it is? Why is it the mods' fault?

As for confounds idea about opening up the sticky to allow more info on hosts? I'll trust aidan's view on that for the forum. My own personal view is - why does it matter? All you are trying to do by allowing discussion on hosting is apparently to let the end user know more about a company, understand why they should go with the company, what is good and bad about the company. What then would they learn from a marketed blurb? A blurb geared towards getting business, when instead they should be doing their own research, considering we allow minimal discussion and they can't do it here. My personal vote would be no, as it's in the users best interest.

HandWS LTD

Gordon wrote: »

More work for mods and the errant users will find more cryptic and hidden ways of pimping by stretching and pushing the limits of acceptability.

The bit about stricter rules? Stricter rules means heavier moderation means more time spent modding. Why should mods have to spend more time if people can't play by the rules as it is? Why is it the mods' fault?

As for confounds idea about opening up the sticky to allow more info on hosts? I'll trust aidan's view on that for the forum. My own personal view is - why does it matter? All you are trying to do by allowing discussion on hosting is apparently to let the end user know more about a company, understand why they should go with the company, what is good and bad about the company. What then would they learn from a marketed blurb? A blurb geared towards getting business, when instead they should be doing their own research, considering we allow minimal discussion and they can't do it here. My personal vote would be no, as it's in the users best interest.

Nobody is going to complain that its the mod's faults. If all msg's can not become visable until validated by the mods. Not more work...they log on read message, activate for the forum or answer themselves. That way nobody will see any of the messages that ye may feel may affect the forum. OR put the conditions on the web hosts themselves so ye can read their messages and activate them or not.

link8r from a different thread did mention...that maybe you could add a newbie thread so that the responses are better organised? I do not know how that would work but the more ideas here the better.

Overheal

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Nobody is going to complain that its the mod's faults. If all msg's can not become visable until validated by the mods. Not more work...they log on read message, activate for the forum or answer themselves. That way nobody will see any of the messages that ye may feel may affect the forum. OR put the conditions on the web hosts themselves so ye can read their messages and activate them or not.

Pre-moderation of posts is a feature of Personal Issues as it is. I have no idea what goes on back behind the curtain but I can tell you PI taken at reader/face value is not a forum that requires the work of ten of the site's best moderators to handle. Fact is 99% of the work is probably the pre-approval of all unregistered/anonymous posts in it. Tack on 30% for the volume of "Why hasnt my post shown up yet?" posts.

Im not sure you understand that, what you are suggesting, would be making an absolute mountain of work for anyone silly enough to agree to moderate such a discussion board.

Im also not sure you appreciate how much work youre asking of the site administrators and developers by asking for a timeshare option either: as far as I am aware that is simply not a feature available on Boards or V-Bulletin, and one would have to be created Ad-Hoc. Really, really low on the list of priorities, tbh.

HandWS LTD

Overheal wrote: »

Pre-moderation of posts is a feature of Personal Issues as it is. I have no idea what goes on back behind the curtain but I can tell you PI taken at reader/face value is not a forum that requires the work of ten of the site's best moderators to handle. Fact is 99% of the work is probably the pre-approval of all unregistered/anonymous posts in it. Tack on 30% for the volume of "Why hasnt my post shown up yet?" posts.

Im not sure you understand that, what you are suggesting, would be making an absolute mountain of work for anyone silly enough to agree to moderate such a discussion board.

Im also not sure you appreciate how much work youre asking of the site administrators and developers by asking for a timeshare option either: as far as I am aware that is simply not a feature available on Boards or V-Bulletin, and one would have to be created Ad-Hoc. Really, really low on the list of priorities, tbh.

I understand, i really do....that is why i think they need to add new features. Every site needs to be updated with new features. I'm not saying they don't add new features......i'm sure they do. As i have previously explained it can be alot of work but there's always a way with everything to make it work. Nothing is IMPOSSIBLE in the world of web development.

As i am throwing all ideas in here to try and help to make it work.....and hopefully do NOT add any more work load to the mods. Maybe have what i explained by putting an automatic WATCH with msg waiting to be activated on the newly registered users to try and stop this. Plus adding the same WATCH to anybody who started to say bad things or pimping on the web hosting forum and delete their posts. This way people can stop what they did in the past. But once that is out of the way......life may be easier and better for boards.ie. As the past is well in the past.

forbairt

Personally against hosting being reopened.

I think the Where / What post could be updated with extra details such as what type of panels they are running as well as a rough guide to what people really need from their webhost (how many databases .. what type ... how much space and bandwidth is required .. and so on)

I'd be against the webhosts being allowed to add a personal note to their listing. They mostly offer the same things so then it becomes a case of who writes gooder

Every thread on hosting I've ever seen on here has quickly devolved into some kind of caveman style argument where you can see them bashing the potential client over the head and dragging them off by the hair

As such the potential customer suddenly gets very confused probably finds it all very childish and goes looking at US hosts.

What might work in my mind would be recommendations by people with X posts (more senior people in the web dev / design forums) of the various Irish Hosts. Again this may not work out for newer hosting companies but generally people are looking for recommendations of hosting companies from designers / developers based on their personal experience .. any thoughts on that?

Cabaal

Darragh wrote: »

HandWSLtd,

If we allow this discussion, would you be happy to participate if we removed all of the links in your username and signature?

The twitter post in question would be of major concern, but I'd think that IF such a forum was re-opened then no sigs allowed and outright bans for anyone acting the muppet

However this suggestion....

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Nobody is going to complain that its the mod's faults. If all msg's can not become visable until validated by the mods. Not more work...they log on read message, activate for the forum or answer themselves. That way nobody will see any of the messages that ye may feel may affect the forum. OR put the conditions on the web hosts themselves so ye can read their messages and activate them or not.
.

Is insane, pre-moderation of all posts made in the forum, there's far too much work involved in that for any benefits given. In short its not worth the work put in by people that just don't get paid to deal with such crap.

mneylon

HandWS LTD wrote: »

Nobody is going to complain that its the mod's faults. If all msg's can not become visable until validated by the mods. Not more work...they log on read message, activate for the forum or answer themselves. That way nobody will see any of the messages that ye may feel may affect the forum. OR put the conditions on the web hosts themselves so ye can read their messages and activate them or not.

That's totally impractical

Moderating threads means:

- more work for moderators
- loss of any meaningful conversation flow