UCC students - encouraged to get drunk?

Nova_era

This is something which has annoyed me since, quite literally, day one of college.

On our first induction day, we were informed about some stupid protest march, which we were ensured would culminate in a "piss-up anyway!".

The UCC Students Union may as well be major shareholders in Gorbys nightclub, and the Bailey etc, as they direct students to spend their Monday evenings/grants/mommy + daddy money in these places. Gorbys, and on their behalf many societies/clubs promote €2 shots of vodka. Since when do people sit down and sip a shot of vodka? They don't. The key emphasis here is to get as drunk as possible.

I'm not in UCC to drink. I'm bloody there to get an education. Yeah sure, social life is an important part of University life, but surely promoting various "nights out" a week is going against the grain of University life? Aren't students meant to be broke? Shouldn't the SU actually for once give some thought to the students who actually are struggling their way through college, and can't afford to spend money getting drunk and going to fast food outlets on random weeknights?

The fact that now a student has actually gone missing has woken me up to post this thread; I'm ****ing sick of this emphasis on drinking which seems to plague my university. I'm surprised that such a tragedy has taken so long to occur, as with the amount of people who fall out of Gorbys and other nightclubs each night drunk, encouraged by college life, we're lucky it's not a regular occurance.

Is anyone else irked by the emphasis placed on drinking in UCC? Is UCC really that dull, that getting drunk needs to be given such precidence?

I'm in the process of drafting an official complaint to the NUI, as this idiocy, predominantly fostered by our respective student unions, is bringing down our universities.

g5fd6ow0hseima

Where do you think the SU gets its sponsorship for events?

Also, every college in this country is the same.

Professey Chin

You realise pretty much every single college in the world is pretty much like this no matter how distinguished their reputation is?

Nova_era

So does that make it acceptable?

Jonathan

Unfortunately it is the same in the other Universities too.

Nova_era

That does'nt make it in anyway acceptable. People are raped in every country of the world.. does that make it ok? Completely different scenario, but just because something is universal does'nt mean that it's acceptable.

Professey Chin

Well you say its bringing down our Universities and I fail to see how since its just the college norm everywhere.Students who are there still go to class, they still get their education.Its up to them to decide when to go out, not the SU or the college.
You get your education and let others do it their own way or not.

Nova_era

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Well you say its bringing down our Universities and I fail to see how since its just the college norm everywhere.Students who are there still go to class, they still get their education.Its up to them to decide when to go out, not the SU or the college.
You get your education and let others do it their own way or not.

If a student goes out religiously every Wednesday night, and stays out until 2am, what good are lectures the following day to them? SUs help out students when they fail exams. Perhaps if they didn't promote clubs during the year, they wouldn't have to help out with exams?

Cigarettes - they aren't promoted, but people buy them anyway. Could student unions not adopt a similar strategy as regards clubs and drinking? If people want to go and get drunk, then ok, that's fine. At least they havn't had 20 leaflets pushed in their face.

Professey Chin

Nova_era wrote: »

That does'nt make it in anyway acceptable. People are raped in every country of the world.. does that make it ok? Completely different scenario, but just because something is universal does'nt mean that it's acceptable.

Completely different scenario and a bit fcuking extreme example to use tbh.
And its not acceptable to you, to me I really couldnt care.The good students will always have something when they need a break, the bad will make their mistakes and hopefully learn in the future or fail.
A lot of students go home weekends so stuff has to be organised for during the week. You cant have it for one night since since not everyone has early/late classes the next morning.
You might not find it acceptable but this is reality

x in the city

Nova_era wrote: »

If a student goes out religiously every Wednesday night, and stays out until 2am, what good are lectures the following day to them? SUs help out students when they fail exams. Perhaps if they didn't promote clubs during the year, they wouldn't have to help out with exams?

Cigarettes - they aren't promoted, but people buy them anyway. Could student unions not adopt a similar strategy as regards clubs and drinking? If people want to go and get drunk, then ok, that's fine. At least they havn't had 20 leaflets pushed in their face.

what your saying is correct and im with ya all the way

im at ucc and a post grad, i havent been out boozin since my under grad years ago

anyway

at the end of the day its the students choice to

a) get **** faced

b) smoke pot/hash/weed

c) get laid behind a bush on the way home

d) all of the above in one night out.

when you reach this age, you should be able to make your own life decisions.

no one is telling you to get them 2 shots of vodka and then another for 1e...

just the way it is...as someone said, its the same probably every where else

Nova_era

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Completely different scenario and a bit fcuking extreme example to use tbh.
And its not acceptable to you, to me I really couldnt care.The good students will always have something when they need a break, the bad will make their mistakes and hopefully learn in the future or fail.
A lot of students go home weekends so stuff has to be organised for during the week. You cant have it for one night since since not everyone has early/late classes the next morning.
You might not find it acceptable but this is reality

I specified that it was a completely different scenario, so that should be enough to show you that I am not comparing the two.

If you don't care, why are you posting?

Stuff "has to be organised" during the week? Does it have to?? Is the world going to end if it is not? Could you just not avoid having to adapt to everyones morning classes, and just not "organise" anything? I use the term "organise" lightly, as I've yet to attend a UCC event which features any organisation above handing out concession passes.

Professey Chin

Nova_era wrote: »

I specified that it was a completely different scenario, so that should be enough to show you that I am not comparing the two.

If you don't care, why are you posting?

Stuff "has to be organised" during the week? Does it have to?? Is the world going to end if it is not? Could you just not avoid having to adapt to everyones morning classes, and just not "organise" anything? I use the term "organise" lightly, as I've yet to attend a UCC event which features any organisation above handing out concession passes.

Then why even mention it if youre not comparing?

Because it doesnt bother me personally that they organise it but im giving reasons why they do

Yes it does have to.Like it or not any university/college is a massive asset to any town/citys business including the pubs/night-clubs. With the majority of the students going home weekends why would they have student nights/offers on those?Its also impossible for everyone to have morning classes so why should those who dont have to stay in for those who do when they want to blow off some steam with friends they might only see during the week?

Nova_era

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Then why even mention it if youre not comparing?

Because it doesnt bother me personally that they organise it but im giving reasons why they do

Yes it does have to.Like it or not any university/college is a massive asset to any town/citys business including the pubs/night-clubs. With the majority of the students going home weekends why would they have student nights/offers on those?Its also impossible for everyone to have morning classes so why should those who dont have to stay in for those who do when they want to blow off some steam with friends they might only see during the week?

Which leads us to the next point; "blow off some steam". That means getting really drunk, right? Not relaxing, not going to a football game, not playing a game of pool.. No, just all heading to the same club, getting drunk, getting into a fight, and waking up the next week to do it all again. And that is the order, I've passed Gorbys enough times to see fights and drunken idiots falling around outside. I only imagine that such things begin inside it's sacred walls.

So by your logic, do universities, in this case UCC, owe something to the city they're based in (Cork)?

You say it's beneficial to the area, but what's the point?

Professey Chin

Nova_era wrote: »

Which leads us to the next point; "blow off some steam". That means getting really drunk, right? Not relaxing, not going to a football game, not playing a game of pool.. No, just all heading to the same club, getting drunk, getting into a fight, and waking up the next week to do it all again. And that is the order, I've passed Gorbys enough times to see fights and drunken idiots falling around outside. I only imagine that such things begin inside it's sacred walls.

So by your logic, do universities, in this case UCC, owe something to the city they're based in (Cork)?

You say it's beneficial to the area, but what's the point?

You say it like thats all people do.Some do go to football,some do go play pool and yes others do drink and a tiny minority are stupid and fight.Social clubs around colleges cater to these different tastes by organising 5-a-side tournaments,martial art classes,LANs whatever really but these are all specific things.Part of what the SU does (and gets sponsored to do) is help students relax but they have to try cater to everyone and piss-ups are the easiest way to do this and the local businesses know this and help cater to them.

Youre living in a funny little bubble if you think that UCC doesnt owe something to the city its in along with the rest of them.The city helps makes the college and the college helps make the city.A college in the middle of nowhere will fail since they need facilities and local businesses to help attract students and people to work there.Colleges arnt a magical self supporting entity and need the city around them

Nova_era

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

You say it like thats all people do.Some do go to football,some do go play pool and yes others do drink and a tiny minority are stupid and fight.Social clubs around colleges cater to these different tastes by organising 5-a-side tournaments,martial art classes,LANs whatever really but these are all specific things.Part of what the SU does (and gets sponsored to do) is help students relax but they have to try cater to everyone and piss-ups are the easiest way to do this and the local businesses know this and help cater to them.

Youre living in a funny little bubble if you think that UCC doesnt owe something to the city its in along with the rest of them.The city helps makes the college and the college helps make the city.A college in the middle of nowhere will fail since they need facilities and local businesses to help attract students and people to work there.Colleges arnt a magical self supporting entity and need the city around them

UCC's academic success does not depend on the amount/quality of bars in the city. If there were no clubs in Cork, would UCC still operate? Probably not, as the Irish seem to have such a dependency on getting drunk. Is that the criteria under which a university should operate?

A college in the middle of nowhere will fail due to lack of local infrastructure and basic needs - not because there is a lack of places for people to drink away that unbearable pain of being educated.

SUs don't need to make students "relax". Pehaps if students were on the front lines in Iraq, they might need a bit of downtime, but how difficult can lounging around UCC be? Hardly suicide inducing stuff.

5-a-side, martial arts.. and so on. They all do their thing. And where do they head after? Even the fencing club hit the bars after training.. Is there no escape?! The chaplaincy is one of, if not the only, group who don't feel the need to cap off every meeting with a round of jagermeisters.

EDIT: I'm going to bed now, so if I don't reply to posts, please just discuss among yourselves. It shouldn't be too long regardless until someone from the SU comes along and starts multi-quoting everyone with the usual trivia.

samf

Firstly, let me introduce myself as the SU Entertainments officer this year.

Nova_era, I agree partly, but let me point out a few things.

Firstly the deal UCC SU have with gorbys and the classic on a wednesday night brings in a huge income stream that supports all the SU's other services, campaigns, entertainments and costs, which go back into helping the students of UCC. Without this vital funding the union would currently struggle to operate.

Secondly, I sit on a university board to "promote healthy living and responsible alcohol use among students", which deals with this very issue and its main job is to reduce all alcohol promotion in any form on campus and encourage students that wish to drink to do so responsibly. You may or may not know that UCC has an alcohol policy which is enforced, and disallows any mention of alcohol in any form on campus. You may notice flyers for gorbys given out on campus have no mention of drink prices, no posters for any SU event, club or society night have no mention of alcohol or even pictures of drink because its simply not allowed.

Thirdly, I'm currently in the process of finalising a new weekly SU entertainments promotion called No Drink Needed Nights, or NDN nights, these will consist of a reduced cost alcohol alternative option each night of the week, deals are currently being finalised but will hopefully include reduced bowling pool & Karaeoke in the mardyke, cinema in the gate, performances in the Granary, and a free games night in the common room. I'd ideally have liked to get this up and running sooner but one or two of the deals are taking longer than I expected but hopefully this will be up and running within the next week or two.

Finally, I would say the main problem is more a cultural problem that the irish have with the attitude alcohol. Like it or not students just like to go clubbing and drinking, theres not much we can do about it and for us its pointless to try and ignore the fact and ban any mention of night clubs in the university. So the best we can do is encourage responsible drinking, and as far as I know the SU welfare officer is holding an Alcohol Awareness campaign in the next few weeks to alert students to the dangers of alcohol.

So while we realise its a problem we're doing our best. The alcohol policy is can be found at http://www.ucc.ie/en/SIN/studentrules/alcohol/DocumentFile,51033,en.pdf by the way, its actually being revised at the moment to bring it up to date.

orangetictac

Have to say I'm with the SU on this one.

I don't think they promote drinking really.

And I think the OP is taking a culture issue out on them.

And btw lots of people play pool, watch a match AND go clubbing...depending on the next days lectures etc. Dont see the problem with clubbing if im honest. Some people get too drunk in and it sucks but I dont think its the SUs fault


ps who goes out on a Wednesday?:P

Mario007

samf wrote: »

Firstly the deal UCC SU have with gorbys and the classic on a wednesday night brings in a huge income stream that supports all the SU's other services, campaigns, entertainments and costs, which go back into helping the students of UCC. Without this vital funding the union would currently struggle to operate.

i don't mean to be a prick, but what services does the money go to? so far i've seen the SU organize one march against fees which, in my opinion, was a failure, one erasmus night, one international food night and two comedians coming down, however for those we have to pay, so i wonder where does the money go to?

samf wrote: »

Thirdly, I'm currently in the process of finalising a new weekly SU entertainments promotion called No Drink Needed Nights, or NDN nights, these will consist of a reduced cost alcohol alternative option each night of the week, deals are currently being finalised but will hopefully include reduced bowling pool & Karaeoke in the mardyke, cinema in the gate, performances in the Granary, and a free games night in the common room. I'd ideally have liked to get this up and running sooner but one or two of the deals are taking longer than I expected but hopefully this will be up and running within the next week or two.

sounds like a cool idea, and though i do dislike the SU, i must say really cool thinking there sam!

samf wrote: »

Finally, I would say the main problem is more a cultural problem that the irish have with the attitude alcohol. Like it or not students just like to go clubbing and drinking, theres not much we can do about it and for us its pointless to try and ignore the fact and ban any mention of night clubs in the university. So the best we can do is encourage responsible drinking, and as far as I know the SU welfare officer is holding an Alcohol Awareness campaign in the next few weeks to alert students to the dangers of alcohol.

i think the OP is more referring to the encouragement to get people drinking as opposed to people drinking. It's true though, the SU and many societies always end up saying 'it's going to be a piss up anyway' to conclude talking about some event that they organize and try to attract people to attend. I think that's the problem.

samf

i don't mean to be a prick, but what services does the money go to? so far i've seen the SU organize one march against fees which, in my opinion, was a failure, one erasmus night, one international food night and two comedians coming down, however for those we have to pay, so i wonder where does the money go to?

Well I without wanting this thread to become an off topic what does the SU do thread, here's just a few things you might not be aware that the SU is responsible for:
- Second Hand Book Service
- Grinds Service
- Creche Subsidies
- Printing Service (cheaper than the university at cost price, available from the SU box office, currently down but should be working again later next week)
- Class Hoodie Ordering Service
- Organising class rep elections and ensuring each class has both an academic and entertainment rep
- set up collegeroad.ie as a portal for ucc students
- in charge of running the common room (and in the past was responsible for it being built)
- Welfare campagins (both gone by and still to come this year) include a mental health week, alcohol awareness campaign as i mentioned, finance campaign with a ucc finance booklet, road safety campaign, health week, shag week (sexual health), less stress campaign (around exams), shh campaign (respect local residents)
- The welfare officer is also trained to deal with students in need calling into her office and so far in the year has dealt with the following issues in students:
Finance issues, Grants, Fees and fee waivers, Pregnancy, Eating Disorders, Mental Health, Domestic Abuse, Accommodation Queries, Sexual Health issues , several times through the year she's had people breaking down in tears in her office as has the education officer with students upset over repeats and failing exams.
- deputy president apart from dealing with all promotion of the SU is largely in charge of helping out with the UCC media, i.e. the express and motley magazine, in the process of getting all students email accounts on gmail
- and on the entertainments side of things there's been a beach party, a week of entertainments on freshers week, training for 150 class reps, a halloween ball, neil delamare (who was subsidised by the SU to make tickets only 10 euro), mick flannery, andrew maxwell and blizzards at the snow ball still to come before xmas. We also have taken out every international student in UCC on arrival (1000 in total) and given them a tour of campus. After xmas will be raise and give week (we have to call it that now instead of rag week) and we're planning a huge end of year concert, similar to the likes of the trinity ball.

Also my position is voluntary so i dont get paid a penny and im quite happy about it cos its fun

And basically all of the above isnt free so requires all the funding it can get from the income methods and thats why things like the gorbys deal can help students so much.

Now to go back on topic

It's true though, the SU and many societies always end up saying 'it's going to be a piss up anyway' to conclude talking about some event that they organize and try to attract people to attend. I think that's the problem.

I agree thats its wrong that that should happen and its against the alcohol policy as "alcohol cannot be used as an incentive to attend an event", so i hope that no officer of the SU anyway said that.

Eliot Rosewater

I welcome Nova Eras thought provoking, and quite courageous, opening post.

samf seems to operate under one of the greatest conflicts of interests one can imagine. He/she claims to be promoting no drink nights while simultaneously using alcohol-based money to fund "services" (most of which I hazard arent even used by the majority of students). The fact is is that drink culture is shoved down your throat at UCC. Everyone is giving out flyers, the SU promoting drink to get drunk as well as all the Socs. This No-Drink campaign will probably be a petit kind of one and no where near as forceful as the main pro-drunk thrust of the Student Union.

I think it was courageous of Nova Era to bring up the recent tragedy that has befallen UCC. Despite the SU's currently frontline campaign to remedy this specific incident you can be guaranteed they will do absolutely nothing to try and heal the underlying issues in our UCC culture.


Addendum: Im probably a little biased as someone who cant drink due to long term health issues. Saying that, it probably gives me a more objective viewpoint as Im not 'dragged in' by the usual SU-sponsored culture.

PeakOutput

Nova_era wrote: »

This is something which has annoyed me since, quite literally, day one of college.

On our first induction day, we were informed about some stupid protest march, which we were ensured would culminate in a "piss-up anyway!".

The UCC Students Union may as well be major shareholders in Gorbys nightclub, and the Bailey etc, as they direct students to spend their Monday evenings/grants/mommy + daddy money in these places. Gorbys, and on their behalf many societies/clubs promote €2 shots of vodka. Since when do people sit down and sip a shot of vodka? They don't. The key emphasis here is to get as drunk as possible.

I'm not in UCC to drink. I'm bloody there to get an education. Yeah sure, social life is an important part of University life, but surely promoting various "nights out" a week is going against the grain of University life? Aren't students meant to be broke? Shouldn't the SU actually for once give some thought to the students who actually are struggling their way through college, and can't afford to spend money getting drunk and going to fast food outlets on random weeknights?

The fact that now a student has actually gone missing has woken me up to post this thread; I'm ****ing sick of this emphasis on drinking which seems to plague my university. I'm surprised that such a tragedy has taken so long to occur, as with the amount of people who fall out of Gorbys and other nightclubs each night drunk, encouraged by college life, we're lucky it's not a regular occurance.

Is anyone else irked by the emphasis placed on drinking in UCC? Is UCC really that dull, that getting drunk needs to be given such precidence?

I'm in the process of drafting an official complaint to the NUI, as this idiocy, predominantly fostered by our respective student unions, is bringing down our universities.

i go to university of limerick. up until last year there was an'alcohol policy' were no event related to the college could be promoted on the basis on cheap /free / lots of drink. this meant that no events had ANY drinks promotions and students were getting raped with prices

so that was voted out last year and we are starting to see more nights with 3 euro pints and the clubs can get sponsorship from drinks companies and its also hopefully going to allow alittle idea of mine to come to fruition

i havnt drank in 4 weeks despite going out almost every second night people get pissed because they want to not because they are told to. drinks promotions make it cheaper for students to do what they want(ie get pissed0

its personal choiceb at the end of the day

keane2097

Can't we just have a scenario in which all of the adults involved decide whether or not they want to go on the piss?

Are grown up decision making situations too much for some of you people or something?

deisedude

Drinking is an endemic part of Irish culture whether you like it or not. Personally i think the OP takes umbrage with this more than anything else.

Students are going to drink anyway but personally i have never felt like i have been encouraged by SU events to drink. If i choose to drink thats my own decision and not anyone elses just as people are justified to make the decision not to drink.

BTW Nova Era it was quite condescending of you to undermine the SU before they even had an opportunity to respond

samf

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

He/she claims to be promoting no drink nights while simultaneously using alcohol-based money to fund "services" (most of which I hazard arent even used by the majority of students).

Alcohol based money? Firstly dont think for a minute that the SU are sponsored by a nightclub, we allow one night club to promote on campus and in exchange get funding for student services (try telling single student parents that you dont agree the SU should get money to pay for their creche subsidy). Also on campus in UCC you're protected from getting any flyers which mention alcohol, or drink prices, and if it wasnt for the alcohol policy you'd have every pub and club in cork on campus handing out flyers promoting their club, would you prefer that?

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

The fact is is that drink culture is shoved down your throat at UCC. Everyone is giving out flyers, the SU promoting drink to get drunk as well as all the Socs.

Give me one example when the SU has promoted "drink to get drunk" to back up your point.

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

This No-Drink campaign will probably be a petit kind of one and no where near as forceful as the main pro-drunk thrust of the Student Union.

So i tell you about an encouraging initiative that im running to promote alcohol free nights and you rubbish it as a "petit kind of one"? Honestly you're quick to criticise work i havent even carried out yet but where are your suggestions of what could instead be done?

thebigcheese22

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I welcome Nova Eras thought provoking, and quite courageous, opening post.

samf seems to operate under one of the greatest conflicts of interests one can imagine. He/she claims to be promoting no drink nights while simultaneously using alcohol-based money to fund "services" (most of which I hazard arent even used by the majority of students).

Haha so you think that services should be provided only if the majority want them? Do you know how idiotic that is?!

I think it was courageous of Nova Era to bring up the recent tragedy that has befallen UCC. Despite the SU's currently frontline campaign to remedy this specific incident you can be guaranteed they will do absolutely nothing to try and heal the underlying issues in our UCC culture.

Courageous my ass, it was disingenuous and insulting to the missing student (who hopefully will be found very soon). What does that incident have to do with the SU's policy on drink? It was a night out in town, not organised by the SU or UCC. You're wrong.

Addendum: Im probably a little biased as someone who cant drink due to long term health issues. Saying that, it probably gives me a more objective viewpoint as Im not 'dragged in' by the usual SU-sponsored culture.

The only SU-sponsored culture I've experienced is the provision of worthwhile services - you don't know what you're talking about IMO

johnny-fatality

thebigcheese22 wrote: »

to fund "services" (most of which I hazard arent even used by the majority of students).

that is an extremely self-centred satement.
is that not comparable to saying ' the government shouldn't fund any sort of medical care for people with disabilities, sure what do i need that for, i'm grand!'

'why are the UCC paying to have a creche in UCC, sure I don't have any children!'

etc.

I realise that that sounds provocative, which is unintentional.

I agree with elements of both nova era's post, as we all get frustrated over misbehaving, hedonistic students, but Sam seems to be a guy with more realistic views that aren't just 'the state of the country today' opinions. (which are valid also)
I'm not a big SU fan, but they do provide certain invaluable services, even if the relationship with certain clubs is a bit 'pragmatic'.

thebigcheese22

johnny-fatality wrote: »

that is an extremely self-centred satement.
is that not comparable to saying ' the government shouldn't fund any sort of medical care for people with disabilities, sure what do i need that for, i'm grand!'

'why are the UCC paying to have a creche in UCC, sure I don't have any children!'

etc.

I realise that that sounds provocative, which is unintentional.

I agree with elements of both nova era's post, as we all get frustrated over misbehaving, hedonistic students, but Sam seems to be a guy with more realistic views that aren't just 'the state of the country today' opinions. (which are valid also)
I'm not a big SU fan, but they do provide certain invaluable services, even if the relationship with certain clubs is a bit 'pragmatic'.

Just to clarify that it was Elliot Rosewater who originally said that quote, not meself

johnny-fatality

my bad, i got lazy and just quoted you!

Eliot Rosewater

Headline: UCC Forum attack on UCC majority dissenter SHOCKER!

The SU allows clubs to promote. Promotions in form of cheap shots. Shots generally to get drunk. SU in promoting drunkenness SHOCKER!

Ooops sorry erase that logic (and have that Einstein fella shot), it doesnt conform with the majority view in UCC. Its must be wrong. Dammit it must be! UCC FORUM IN IGNORING LOGIC SHOCKER!!!

And as regards specific services being free ... meh, I get the impression that any explanation on my view of things will be thrown down by the UCC regulars (IN LATE NIGHT SHOCKER!!!!!!)


It seems there were at least 2 of those UCC majority opinion dissenters here, goddamit these rational logicians may end up owning the place. Cancel the Computers, Physics and Maths departments immediately. Cant have rational discussion take over, HELL NO! Better to fill our posts with asterisks and crap irrelevant analogy's and false pretenses of understanding. Bah and to hell with understanding!


UCC majority dissenter in frustrated with UCC conservatism SHOCKER!

EDIT: Given the way in which people here have immediately jumped on anyone who displays an opinion divergent to that of most, I feel that any further partaking of me in this thread will result in some kind of personal abuse either way (as it did on the other thread in which I displayed divergent opinion), and for that reason I wont post here again. Next time be more reasonable (including omission of foul language) and I will debate all day

samf

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

The SU allows clubs to promote. Promotions in form of cheap shots. Shots generally to get drunk. SU in promoting drunkenness SHOCKER!

Firstly, no need for the sarcasm, it does nothing to help your argument. As I said before several times, the SU only allows just one club to promote on campus, and they're not permitted to promote cheap shots or any mention of alcohol for that matter on campus, and they never do. What they do in their premises is out of our control and nothing to do with us.

mahamageehad

Nobody is forcing anyone to go out!! Some people get enjoyment by having a beer with the game, some like to go to the cinema with friends, some like to play sports...and some like to get drunk and dance every once in a while! Thats called choice, and unless Ireland became communist over the weekend, it's your own free choice what to do with your time.

If you're so much of a sheep that you go drinking because "the student union indirectly told me to" you have no place in college. I think it's very unfair to base your personal vendetta against drinking against the UCC SU. Do you have so little of a social life that without alcohol related events you have nothing else to do but to come on boards and bit*h about alcohol related events??

I think maybe come back when you grow up a little.

yerayeah

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Headline: UCC Forum attack on UCC majority dissenter SHOCKER!

The SU allows clubs to promote. Promotions in form of cheap shots. Shots generally to get drunk. SU in promoting drunkenness SHOCKER!

Ooops sorry erase that logic (and have that Einstein fella shot), it doesnt conform with the majority view in UCC. Its must be wrong. Dammit it must be! UCC FORUM IN IGNORING LOGIC SHOCKER!!!

And as regards specific services being free ... meh, I get the impression that any explanation on my view of things will be thrown down by the UCC regulars (IN LATE NIGHT SHOCKER!!!!!!)


It seems there were at least 2 of those UCC majority opinion dissenters here, goddamit these rational logicians may end up owning the place. Cancel the Computers, Physics and Maths departments immediately. Cant have rational discussion take over, HELL NO! Better to fill our posts with asterisks and crap irrelevant analogy's and false pretenses of understanding. Bah and to hell with understanding!


UCC majority dissenter in frustrated with UCC conservatism SHOCKER!

EDIT: Given the way in which people here have immediately jumped on anyone who displays an opinion divergent to that of most, I feel that any further partaking of me in this thread will result in some kind of personal abuse either way (as it did on the other thread in which I displayed divergent opinion), and for that reason I wont post here again. Next time be more reasonable (including omission of foul language) and I will debate all day

Not sure if you're going for humour or just trying to look clever here, either way you failed miserably...

PeakOutput

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

The SU allows clubs to promote. Promotions in form of cheap shots. Shots generally to get drunk. SU in promoting drunkenness SHOCKER!

samf wrote: »

You may or may not know that UCC has an alcohol policy which is enforced, and disallows any mention of alcohol in any form on campus. You may notice flyers for gorbys given out on campus have no mention of drink prices, no posters for any SU event, club or society night have no mention of alcohol or even pictures of drink because its simply not allowed.

which one of you is telling the truth?

Max001

As others have said here, as adults we each have freedom to choose how to live our lives, within the boundaries of the law. Though we can also break laws and face the consequences. I for one, count myself lucky to have been born in a western democracy where I have the freedom to choose as well as the means to act on most choices.
Consistent research has shown that health education and peer pressure are the most successful means of effecting a decrease in student problem drinking. Research has also shown that student drinking has not increased significantly in the last thirty odd years. (Can't recall the exact studies, but a search of e-journals will list examples.)
I think part of the undergrad experience is learning to balance individual freedoms with individual responsibilities, with the first responsibility being to & for oneself. Some learn this early, some learn this late and some learn this not at all. My point being; we're all individuals and there's no one right way for us all.
Personally I'd advocate more innovative health education around campus, so that at the very least we're all making informed choices, when making our lifestyle choices.
My own philosophy: try everything at least once and moderation in all things ......... except for Catherine Jenkins......I could never have enough of her

deisedude

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

EDIT: Given the way in which people here have immediately jumped on anyone who displays an opinion divergent to that of most, I feel that any further partaking of me in this thread will result in some kind of personal abuse either way (as it did on the other thread in which I displayed divergent opinion), and for that reason I wont post here again. Next time be more reasonable (including omission of foul language) and I will debate all day

Nobody has a problem with you having a different viewpoint on the issue, the point of internet forums is to debate on stuff! I do however have a gripe with you backing up your point with half baked "facts" and mistruths and then complaining when people have the audacity to point out the flaws in your argument. If you cant stand the heat get out of the kitchen.

PhatPiggins

johnny-fatality wrote: »

my bad, i got lazy and just quoted you!

Lazy student, half reading a post then talking with authority on the subject!! Surely not.

Sam what do you think when you read the following:

Gorbys. Foam Party. Ladies Free B4 Midnight. Freshers Fest. Corks best Club. College Parties lots of DEALS, FREEBIES. Gorbys,Gorbys,Gorbys.

It doesn't matter a jot if they dont mention booze its implied on every scrap of advertising they have. Taking money from them to fund social services is akin to taking money from Phillip Morris to fund cancer research.

How much more of this : Its in our culture, everyone else is doing it, sure we cant change a thing ,we're students there are no rules, b*llSh*t are we going to put up.

Of course everyone has freedom of choice but the promotion of monday-friday drinking and the complete lack of an appreciation of the consequences is only feulling the problem.

Eliot Rosewater

deisedude wrote: »

Nobody has a problem with you having a different viewpoint on the issue, the point of internet forums is to debate on stuff!

Apparently not. I have contributed here (UCC forum) twice, first time to argue that printing fees were justified and the second time to say that the SU promoted drinking (albeit in an indirect manner). Both times I was 'jumped' on by posters who clearly sought to discredit me rather than my argument. This is clearly because my opinions are different to those of the vast majority of students and the culture in this forum appears to be to attack any such opinions. I was personally abused on the other thread:

thebigcheese22 wrote:

Personally I think someone like you calling my arguments silly are a big win for myself...
your general demeanor would suggest an immature First Year

On this thread an aggressive post that didnt really argue anything but just seemed to be a method by which the poster could flex his borderline abuse was thanked by no less than five people:

thebigcheese22 wrote:

Do you know how idiotic that is?!...
Courageous my ass...
You're wrong.

Hardly eloquent. Yet seemingly this is the kind of post 5 people think to be worthy of a thanks. That is why I think minority-opinion bashing is a culture here. I think its a terrible attitude for anyone to have.


BACK ON TOPIC, I would like to apologize to you desisedude because clearly I didnt make my point well enough and I will now try and do so, especially as you seem to be willing to actually engage in productive discussion (which I appreciate).

Basically, what PhatPiggins said. When promoting class partys and SU parties, cheap drink (especially of the concentrated kind) seems to be the center piece. I have received a few emails about parties in the Bailey and nearly all of them have mentioned jelly shots. This, in my opinion, is promoting drunkenness because shots are primarily used as a vehicle to get drunk. This promotes a certain culture.

Now Im very liberal and I believe people should be allowed get as wasted as they want. Freedom to be yourself, etc. However theres a difference between being passive and indirectly/directly promoting something. And by accepting money of off Gorbys etal, the SU Events wing becomes effectively a promotion for getting drunk. What do you think? I realize youve never been promoted but from my own anecdotal evidence it appears everything eventually boils down to "cheap shots."

Bodhidharma

Its unfair to suggest that the SU encourage people to drink. We do however live in a society that does encourage people to drink. Blaming the SU is wrong, it is a societal issue and UCC, like all other universities, is representative of that.

On the other hand, could they (and the clubs and socs (CowPunchers i'm looking at you)) do more to push a sober message? Yes, I believe they could.

samf

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

I have received a few emails about parties in the Bailey and nearly all of them have mentioned jelly shots. This, in my opinion, is promoting drunkenness because shots are primarily used as a vehicle to get drunk.

This is the second time you've made a false statement (last one being that Gorbys are on campus mentioning cheap shots). I can guarantee you that the SU never sent an email out to all students mentioning "jelly shots in the Bailey", perhaps your class rep did, but in that case it is them who are breaking the alcohol policy and them who are promoting alcohol. The Bailey has a team of students who hand out flyers promoting the place. Where do they stand? Outside the college gates. You seem to be clutching at straws here as you cannot come up with a solid example of the SU mentioning or promoting alcohol.

And PhatPiggins, if you see Gorbys. Foam Party. Ladies Free B4 Midnight. Freshers Fest. Corks best Club. College Parties lots of DEALS, FREEBIES. Gorbys,Gorbys,Gorbys. and think "I have to go to gorbys tonight and get drunk" then im sorry for you, most students have managed learn self control and have learnt that they dont have to do what a flyer says unless they want to (and for the record im pretty sure they never mentioned DEALS on their flyers as even that goes against the alcohol policy). The fact of the matter is that the majority of students go clubbing at least once a week, and we think its better they go to a club where they contribute to student services than another club where all the money goes straight into the owners pocket.

Phatpiggins wrote:

How much more of this : Its in our culture, everyone else is doing it, sure we cant change a thing ,we're students there are no rules, b*llSh*t are we going to put up.

So you're saying its not our culture at all, and in fact its the gorbys flyers in college that are causing such the binge drinking problem? If you're so keen on fixing the problem what measures do you think should be taken that arent currently being taken in UCC? Would you like the SU to close the bars on campus and lobby the clubs in town to close so people instead drink at home where theres no supervision whatsoever?

Actually if you look around the universities in Ireland UCC has one of the strictest alcohol policies, for example take a look at an all student email sent out in UCD recently which caused a stir... http://www.meas.ie/page.php?intPageID=598 - now if we did THAT i could see legitimate complaints!

Byron85

samf wrote: »

Actually if you look around the universities in Ireland UCC has one of the strictest alcohol policies, for example take a look at an all student email sent out in UCD recently which caused a stir... http://www.meas.ie/page.php?intPageID=598 - now if we did THAT i could see legitimate complaints!

Care to explain then why free alcohol was handed out in Boole 1 last night at the comedy gig?

Eliot Rosewater

samf wrote: »

This is the second time you've made a false statement

Your attacking me on the basis of semantics really. Class reps constantly mention free alcohol/alcoholic discounts for their class parties. The societies also do this a lot. Are you saying this doesnt happen? Its far too prevalent a thing to not see. And what you are doing is passing the buck "ah sure they shouldn't be doing this." The Student Union has a handle on these kind of goings on. You know that, and I know that, so stop passing the buck.

As I said, the SU's involvement is indirect. They are clearly in a position, as the biggest student body on campus, to tackle the college culture. Instead their tactic appears to be to blame it on other people either below (the class reps) or above (sure tis a societal problem, not ours). Your showing an immense lack of leadership as the person who has de facto biggest say on this issue in a 17,000 student university.

EDIT: Also, how do you account for the fact that mystery tour tickets often include a free shot? Is this for tasting purposes? Or - and I presume this is more what you think - that its not really any of your business and its the societies fault and that your hands are thoroughly clean.

PhatPiggins

So you're saying its not our culture at all, and in fact its the gorbys flyers in college that are causing such the binge drinking problem? If you're so keen on fixing the problem what measures do you think should be taken that arent currently being taken in UCC? Would you like the SU to close the bars on campus and lobby the clubs in town to close so people instead drink at home where theres no supervision whatsoever?

Actually if you look around the universities in Ireland UCC has one of the strictest alcohol policies, for example take a look at an all student email sent out in UCD recently which caused a stir... http://www.meas.ie/page.php?intPageID=598 - now if we did THAT i could see legitimate complaints!

Is this honestly your answer? Are you simply going to argue that everyones doing it and look UCD are worse, so that makes it ok.

Your arguement that Gorbys pay you so thats better then nothing has me head in hands.

Are you planning a future in Fianna Fail because they seem to be full of like minded people.

captainspeckle

Eliot Rosewater wrote: »

Now Im very liberal

your posts dont really seem to suggest that.

to be honest, i think you need to go have some fun.
and no, this is not s personal attack, merely a suggestion.
was that eloquent and condescending enough? Because i feel that is the tome you seem to be using in all of your posts.

PhatPiggins

mahamageehad wrote: »

Nobody is forcing anyone to go out!! Some people get enjoyment by having a beer with the game, some like to go to the cinema with friends, some like to play sports...and some like to get drunk and dance every once in a while! Thats called choice, and unless Ireland became communist over the weekend, it's your own free choice what to do with your time.

If you're so much of a sheep that you go drinking because "the student union indirectly told me to" you have no place in college. I think it's very unfair to base your personal vendetta against drinking against the UCC SU. Do you have so little of a social life that without alcohol related events you have nothing else to do but to come on boards and bit*h about alcohol related events??

I think maybe come back when you grow up a little.

What about the people who choose not to drink but rather to concentrate on their studies yet still have to suffer because of the tools who act without consequence.

Not a single night passes when I'm studying in the late room in the library without a group of spastics banging on the windows or mooning. I have to get up at seven thirty to put out our bin on college road because if you put it out the night before it'll get kicked over. I've had my car egged and crap thrown at our house.

Where's my choice that you say we're all entitled to?

samf

T.W.H Byron wrote: »

Care to explain then why free alcohol was handed out in Boole 1 last night at the comedy gig?

Sure, well I wasnt there, but as far as I know its organised by the Comedy Society, not the students union, and, as long as alcohol wasnt used as an inscentive for people to attend, then they are fully entitled to give out free drink under 3.5.3 of the UCC alchol policty:

a) Maximum 3 free drinks per person for any on campus function

are permitted.

Eliot Rosewater wrote:

Your attacking me on the basis of semantics really. Class reps constantly mention free alcohol/alcoholic discounts for their class parties. The societies also do this a lot. Are you saying this doesnt happen? Its far too prevalent a thing to not see. And what you are doing is passing the buck "ah sure they shouldn't be doing this." The Student Union has a handle on these kind of goings on. You know that, and I know that, so stop passing the buck.

As I said, the SU's involvement is indirect. They are clearly in a position, as the biggest student body on campus, to tackle the college culture. Instead their tactic appears to be to blame it on other people either below (the class reps) or above (sure tis a societal problem, not ours). Your showing an immense lack of leadership as the person who has de facto biggest say on this issue in a 17,000 student university.

EDIT: Also, how do you account for the fact that mystery tour tickets often include a free shot? Is this for tasting purposes? Or - and I presume this is more what you think - that its not really any of your business and its the societies fault and that your hands are thoroughly clean.

Im not attacking you, if anything its the opposite. Thanks for saying that I have the biggest say in this issue and am therefore a leader of 17000 students, but you couldnt be further from the truth, im not the SU president and I have no say over big decisions. Im not passing the buck, but how can we be responsible at the end of the day for every class rep email sent out, every flyer on campus, every class anouncement made? We're only human and I have a full time college course. I can only say there's an alcohol policy in place, any violations may be reported and will be dealt with. Can I ask you did you report any of these emails? As for societies, ever heard of the societies guild? Theyre in charge of societies, we are not, thats not passing the buck, its just a fact.

And Phatpiggins as I say my answer is that we have a strict policy in place, we have a far stricter alcohol policy than almost any other university in Ireland, and while your solution is to place blame to the SU on the boards, I go out and try to organise an alcohol alternative program of events to try and actually stop the problem. Which of us do you think will achieve more to stop the problem? If you actually want to be construcive then quit blaming and offer constructive suggestions.

EDIT: And to answer Eliot Rosewater's mystery tour question, UCC Students Union has not organised any mystery tours this year, if it was a society then as I say this is permitted under the alcohol policy 3.5.3 again "Maximum 2 free drinks per person for any off campus event by a recognised student activity" so while i dont condone this they're perfectly in their rights to do it, as long as it wasnt mentioned as an inscentive to attend, and once again Societies are ruled by the Societies guild, not the students union, so once again surprise surprise its a false example.

samf

PhatPiggins wrote: »

What about the people who choose not to drink but rather to concentrate on their studies yet still have to suffer because of the tools who act without consequence.

Not a single night passes when I'm studying in the late room in the library without a group of spastics banging on the windows or mooning. I have to get up at seven thirty to put out our bin on college road because if you put it out the night before it'll get kicked over. I've had my car egged and crap thrown at our house.

Where's my choice that you say we're all entitled to?

Well if you think that not giving out gorbys flyers on campus is gonna change that one?

KnifeWRENCH

Ok, there's been a lot of nasty/borderline abusive comments on this thread. I don't want to have to lock this thread so please discuss this maturely and debate without resorting to personal abuse.

To throw my 2 cents in, I don't think the SU promote unresponsible drinking at all. I'm not a huge fan of the whole drinking culture but it's an endemic part of college culture and Irish society in general. If you don't like going out and getting ****faced, don't. No-one's forcing you.

PhatPiggins

Sorry where did I blame the SU?

I'll give you your dues at least you come on here and fight your ground and I applaud your efforts for drink free entertainment. You might ask Rebecca to join the debate as its surely an area that concerns her.

I think there needs to be focus on the effects that binge drinking has on others, what do we need to happen before people take notice. Arrests? Another death?Some lunatic in the clockl tower with a sniper rifle? Consequences people, consequences.

I'm probably just venting a bit because I have to put up with crap I dont cause/take part in .

PhatPiggins

samf wrote: »

Well if you think that not giving out gorbys flyers on campus is gonna change that one bit then you're very naive.

I'm going to be the bigger man here(apologies if you're a woman)

samf

PhatPiggins wrote: »

Sorry where did I blame the SU?

I'll give you your dues at least you come on here and fight your ground and I applaud your efforts for drink free entertainment. You might ask Rebecca to join the debate as its surely an area that concerns her.

I think there needs to be focus on the effects that binge drinking has on others, what do we need to happen before people take notice. Arrests? Another death?Some lunatic in the clockl tower with a sniper rifle? Consequences people, consequences.

I'm probably just venting a bit because I have to put up with crap I dont cause/take part in .

Ok well apologies if you werent blaming the SU, though you did say mention the gorbys flyering being part of the problem. I fully admit this is a problem but its one we're aware of and are trying to do our best to counter, through meeting the university (currently making the alcohol policy more strict in fact), and setting up alcohol altenative events. Rebecca im sure would love to join this debate but the poor girl is up to her eyes at the moment running Finance month but she is also conscious of the problem and will be holding an alcohol awareness campaign soon as I already mentioned.

And yes its true you shouldnt have to put up with people knocking your bins and banging on the library window (actually this was mentioned at a recent SU meeting and we willl be taking action to stop drunk people from the old bar doing this) and getting sick on your front door, but this seriously is a huge social problem and its about changing peoples attitude, and thats something we're trying to achieve. As I said any sugegstions would be great but at the moment please appreciate we're doing the best we can.

Nifdy

Drink plays a massive part in Irish culture. There's no escaping it, especially in colleges & universities. Cats are out to make money, they don't give a funk about people going missing from dirnking too many cheap vodka shots. This lifestyle may appeal to alot of younger, more immature students, if you're not into it yourself my adive to you is find somewhere sociable to drink & don't let this stuff bother you because nothing is going to change.