Illegal to photograph police?

Smyth

If there's a legal forum here, sorry. I missed it.

In the north doing a spot of photography around Belfast. One picture had a police van in the middle of the street with 3 fully kitted out officers. Looked nice amongst the general shoppers so I took a few snaps.

They came sprinting up to me in the middle of the street shouting in a really aggressive manner, demanding to see the photo and insisting I delete it in front of them.

I don't have a clue about the law up there and I couldn't be arsed with the hassle, so I deleted it and moved on. Even so, when I asked them why, two of them grabbed my arm and and marched me towards the van. I laid my ak on the ground and removed my balaclava so I could hear them better, and they said I could have been a possible terrorist doing recon and that if I put up anymore "resistance" that I would spend the night in a cell and face charges under some terrorist act. Bull****?

Quoting one of them
"Ye're nat in the south naeh boy. De yee realise the climate we're in?!"

****ing paranoia is rank up there.

Anyone know where we stand on issues like that down south? Is it illegal?
I've always found the gardaí pretty sound and level headed so I was shocked to say the least.

wudangclan

It might be something to do with the terrorists trying to kill them.

Smyth

guilty until proven innocent now is it?
Orwell echoes...

john-joe

No, not illegal (unless you taken them at night through their bedroom window)

wudangclan

For all they know your a terrorist intelligence officer acting the dumb tourist.

robbie_998

john-joe wrote: »

(unless you taken them at night through their bedroom window)

ah crap

gamgsam

Speak up, I cant hear you over all those gunshots

Yeah ive been told my pictures of gardai were illegal before but managed to get away before they took the camera as they said they were entitled to do. I know thats not true but they would have taken it anyway due to the content hahaha.

In fairness though, when im working, id be fairly annoyed if you came up and took a photo of me and just walked away. Pulling the terrorism card though! A bit too far i think.

citizen_p

its no baghdad but there is still ira killings in the past few months.
so i understand why they would be worried.

you could be going after them or their famillies etc...

amacachi

Law passed in Britain banning it, dunno if it applies to NI though.

jumpguy

Smyth wrote: »

If there's a legal forum here, sorry. I missed it.

In the north doing a spot of photography around Belfast. One picture had a police van in the middle of the street with 3 fully kitted out officers. Looked nice amongst the general shoppers so I took a few snaps.

They came sprinting up to me in the middle of the street shouting in a really aggressive manner, demanding to see the photo and insisting I delete it in front of them.

I don't have a clue about the law up there and I couldn't be arsed with the hassle, so I deleted it and moved on. Even so, when I asked them why, two of them grabbed my arm and and marched me towards the van. I laid my ak on the ground and removed my balaclava so I could hear them better, and they said I could have been a possible terrorist doing recon and that if I put up anymore "resistance" that I would spend the night in a cell and face charges under some terrorist act. Bull****?

Quoting one of them
"Ye're nat in the south naeh boy. De yee realise the climate we're in?!"

****ing paranoia is rank up there.

Anyone know where we stand on issues like that down south? Is it illegal?
I've always found the gardaí pretty sound and level headed so I was shocked to say the least.

Well, fair enough, he atleast explained to you the aggressive actions. It's sad it has to be that way, but they're human too, and are on high alert all the time. It's fair enough they're paranoid.


TBH, the way you describe it sounds over zealous of them, but then again, we'll only ever know the story from you're perspective.

Smyth

Mousey- wrote: »

its no baghdad but there is still ira killings in the past few months.
so i understand why they would be worried.

you could be going after them or their famillies etc...

Yeah, understandable, but the way in which they did it was way over the fuppin top. I mean people stopped and started to watch. Felt like I was on that show "Cops"

Saibh

Smyth wrote: »

I laid my ak on the ground and removed my balaclava so I could hear them better

Hard to know if your thread is serious or not when you add this part to it.




More than likely, would think it is a security issue, as Mousey- states.

artielange

I don't know the answer to your question first off.

But I was watching a show and 2 English bobbies told a man that was video taping them that it was against the law and telling him a bunch of crap(he was on his property I think on his door step). Well it turned out he's some amateur videographer and tells them off, they keep insisting its against the law and tells them maybe they should radio their sergeant because their wrong. You see them on the radio and they just walk away.

Trust me on this,it was a lot more interesting watching it than having to read the above butchery job.:)

How did they know you were from the South? Next time try an American accent;)

Hendrix89

Ridiculous carry on! Although far from unusual behavior from the PSNI unfortunately...

eth0_

It's been illegal to photograph members of the RUC and now the PSNI since..forever.
And for VERY good reason. These people are still at risk from paramilitaries, just for doing their job, after all.

Smyth

jumpguy wrote: »

the way you describe it sounds over zealous of them, but then again, we'll only ever know the story from you're perspective.

I read that with a Morgan Freeman voice. Sounds like you're signing off on a documentary of sorts.

john-joe

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2009/feb/16/protest-police-liberty-central

Any help?

artielange

Smyth wrote: »

Yeah, understandable, but the way in which they did it was way over the fuppin top. I mean people stopped and started to watch. Felt like I was on that show "Cops"

Yeah theres 10 video's on youtube titled Cops over react to photograpgher, terrorist gets away

citizen_p

could be like in films though..........guy plays stupid but gets the info.....2 days later they are dead...

this thread could be part of an alibi

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

There was a thread about this in the photography forum some time ago. Someone highlighed a case where a guy taking pics of the Blackpool Illuminations was forced to delete them because there were police in them. Despite the fact that the city council was running a photogrpahy exhibition at the time/.

But yes, you're right, they are paranoid in the UK. Whether they've got just cause is another can of worms.

Smyth

Mousey- wrote: »

could be like in films though..........guy plays stupid but gets the info.....2 days later they are dead...

this thread could be part of an alibi

eh uh um ahh why NO. Not at all...;)

aDeener

that would explain quite a bit to me. i have noticed on pen pictures for football matches in local papers where everyone elses pictures would be included but those who had occupation as garda were blanked out.

G_R

amacachi wrote: »

Law passed in Britain banning it, dunno if it applies to NI though.

well seen as its in Britain and all....

artielange

dannym08 wrote: »

well seen as its in Britain and all....

I smell troubles

RATM

dannym08 wrote: »

well seen as its in Britain and all....

Not all of Englands laws are the exact same as NI.

However, when it comes to photography Id say the PSNI are stricter than their mainland counterparts. It's culturally enshrined in them to flip at even the sight of a camera whereas the mainlanders haven't exactly been having regular action from terrorists in the same way.

source

Different country, different laws, here you can take a picture of anything so long as it's in a public place, you're not harassing anybody by constantly taking their picture etc.

If i had to police in the north, i would probably act in the same manner as those psni officers, if you went up and politely informed them of what you were doing i'm sure there wouldn't have been a problem.

Overheal

No such law applies in the states. Evidenced by the slew of "Fascist Police State" :rolleyes: videos you see on youtube etc. Thats not to say police cant be brutal everywhere, just in America youre a lot more free to film them in the act. Though the candid use of Tazers doesnt really help their case.

Its a useless CT measure but its a measure all the same. Anyone doing any scouting has their brain and a notepad. Do they come sprinting down to a lad taking notes? or "Texting"? Pictures are handy and all, but I would think they would hardly be a requirement should you want to plan something appalling and stupid.

amacachi

dannym08 wrote: »

well seen as its in Britain and all....

Britain and the UK are two different things, a lot of laws passed in the UK Parliament only apply to England and Wales and to a lesser extent only England. A lot of laws passed don't apply to Scotland and Northern Ireland. See also: Abortion legality in the UK.

GLaDOS

Smyth wrote: »

I laid my ak on the ground and removed my balaclava so I could hear them better

If I saw someone with an AK47 and a balaclava taking pictures of me I'd be a wee bit suspicious myself

skibum

artielange wrote: »

I don't know the answer to your question first off.

But I was watching a show and 2 English bobbies told a man that was video taping them that it was against the law and telling him a bunch of crap(he was on his property I think on his door step). Well it turned out he's some amateur videographer and tells them off, they keep insisting its against the law and tells them maybe they should radio their sergeant because their wrong. You see them on the radio and they just walk away.

Trust me on this,it was a lot more interesting watching it than having to read the above butchery job.:)

Think this is the vid you are talking about:

I posted this before but it was taken down........

jumpguy

Smyth wrote: »

I read that with a Morgan Freeman voice. Sounds like you're signing off on a documentary of sorts.

Who's to say I'm not Morgan Freeman?

slipss

eth0_ wrote: »

It's been illegal to photograph members of the RUC and now the PSNI since..forever.
And for VERY good reason. These people are still at risk from paramilitaries, just for doing their job, after all.

But i'm 99.999999999999999% positive I (or 99.99999999999999999% of the humans that I have met) could photo every single member of every single cop house in the country in the space of a month despite the fact I have no photography training whatsoever, it would be extremely painfully simple. I'm pretty sure I could teach a 10 year old to do it. Is it not obvious that the only people that would be prevented from taking these photos are the people that don't care wether they are seen or not because they are the only people that could possibly be caught?

Sharpshooter

skibum wrote: »

Think this is the vid you are talking about:

I posted this before but it was taken down........

Why was it taken down, it seems pretty clear cut to me.
They were wrong.

Was there any comeback on this, do you know?

slipss

Not entirely off topic but slightly so. Point a video recording device at any member of the gardai and they not only panic like Gary Breen dealing with a simply cleared cross but they also get very very very agressive and start making up laws. Me and some of my friends, when we were young teenagers, decided to point our video cameras at the gardai every time they approached us and they completely despise it (why if they do nothing wrong????). It took about 3 weeks from when we started doin this {after about 3 years of putting up with thier sh1t} that they sudenly decided we weren't commiting any crimes and stopped hassling us.






















(please don't correct my spelling in this post unless it accompanies a genuine response.)

9wetfckx43j5rg

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

jumpguy

Sunny Swift Semiconductor wrote: »

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

He was joking. Do you really think he was carrying around an AK (an automatic weapon)?

Smyth

Sunny Swift Semiconductor wrote: »

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

Oh my...

one-angry-dwarf

Well they need laws like that to protect the police from people taking shots like this of a police medic using his 'healing stick'!

http://whythatsdelightful.wordpress.com/2009/04/08/why-they-want-to-make-it-a-crime-to-take-photographs-of-the-police/

Sunny Swift Semiconductor

Sunny Swift Semiconductor wrote: »

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

:pac::pac::pac:

eth0_

Smyth wrote: »

****ing paranoia is rank up there.

It's not "paranoia". Terrorist groups are still active in Northern Ireland. You might be the buddy of someone one of those police officers put away who needs to teach that officer a "lesson".

Perhaps you're too young to remember when we used to have our cars stopped and searched crossing the border at Newry, or the army checkpoints one had to cross just to get into Belfast city centre

Smyth wrote: »

I've always found the gardaí pretty sound and level headed so I was shocked to say the least.

:eek:

roneythetube

skibum wrote: »

Think this is the vid you are talking about:

I posted this before but it was taken down........

I was just reading this thread thinking to meself 'what was the name of that video I saw recently where a film-maker taught the cops a few things about the laws they are supposed to be know?'...

And then I see this video has been posted! NIce one dude.

Shows clearly that the cops CAN be filmed and often should be filmed (most people behave better if they know they are being filmed) cos sometimes they do things that are not very nice.

God help us when we pass laws on filming those 'protecting us from ourselves'.

manutd

Look at this, got arrested

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And this, he got arrested to, but charges later droped.

" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen>

eth0_

I think there's a line between innocently videoing them, and harrassment.

I mean look at it from your own POV - if you saw someone in O'Connell street just videoing people passing by, that's no big deal. However, if that person began to single you out and followed you with their video camera, that's harrassment. It doesn't matter if you're a civilian or a police officer, if you are being videoed by someone for no good reason, you are entitled to ask them to stop.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Saibh wrote: »

Hard to know if your thread is serious or not when you add this part to it.




More than likely, would think it is a security issue, as Mousey- states.

It's not really... Actually it's quite simple to see that he is taking the mick. You actually think he had an AK47 and a balaclava on?

Sunny Swift Semiconductor wrote: »

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

You really think that he was wearing a balaclava and he was arrested for taking a photo? Seriously?

Well op, in some cases it is illegal, but some of these "police" will use this law all the time. For instance, when you take a photo of a group of gardai beatinga cyclist on the ground with sticks. There are some scum gardai out there that will simply abuse this law, like they will with any other law. Instead of being assholes about it, they could have explained it to you in a manner that was not threatening. Resisting arest, that's a classic one. Used all the time.

Saibh

Konnor Kind Greenhouse wrote: »

It's not really... Actually it's quite simple to see that he is taking the mick. You actually think he had an AK47 and a balaclava on?

No I didn't think he had an AK47 and a balaclava - just didn't see the point in him adding it as the rest of the post seemed serious enough.

Mossy Monk

Sunny Swift Semiconductor wrote: »

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

/facepalm

stovelid

Just wear a Rangers or Linfield shirt when you're taking photos in future, OP.

Dave!

Dunno if it's been mentioned already, but there were incidents recently in the north where individual PSNI officers were targetted and attacked on sectarian grounds. With that in mind, it wouldn't surprise me if it were illegal to photograph their faces. It certainly makes it easier to target someone if you have photos of them.

Wertz

dannym08 wrote: »

well seen as its in Britain and all....

It's not Britian...it's part of the UK...get your facts straight before trying to stir up sh*te.

As for the photography? Essentially it's treated as gathering information or data that may be of use to terrorists under specific laws that pre-date anything the rest of the UK may have imposed.
It carries heavy penalties if proved in court...
Heavy handed? Perhaps. Warranted. Probably...when the threat exists for dissidents to want to strap an explosive device under the car in your driveway, it's probably better that they don't have a picture of you, your family, your home or your car or any data that might allow them to target you more easily. A picture of you and your colleagues in uniform can be considered useful in that regard, if it falls into the wrong hands.


Oh and it's seeing not seen...since you're such a fan of Britain perhaps you could learn to speak it's first language properly...

Dudess

Sunny Swift Semiconductor wrote: »

Why has no one yet mentioned that OP was wearing a balaclava!!

Basically you stood wearing a balaclava taking photos of 3 policemen in NORTHERN Ireland and wondered why they stopped you?

Of course they fecking stopped you, for all they know your taking their photo to hand out to the bloody terroists.

I know. AND he was brandishing an AK47... :mad:

The video of the guy that get confronted by the Police, and they walk away at the end (posted on page 2, i think).


I actually wish he had to have gotten arrested for something. Anything at all. I can understand he may been legally able to record them, but doesn't he have to give his name when asked? His attitude sucked something hard, too.

And shouting down the street after them?

Surely they could have done him for slander or something like that? I don't like the Police to abuse their powers or anything, but if you're gonna be an uncooperative, complete fcuking moron... Then you deserve to be inconvenienced, at the least.