12 killed, plus gunman in a mass shooting at Fort Hood, Texas

artielange

It's actually Texas not America:D

I think fragging is something else this is lunacy

Ghost Train

He was reportedly a military psychiatrist in his late 30s or early 40s and due to be sent on a mission to Iraq

psychiatrists being sent to war

Overheal

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Why is it always america?

Not always, surely. But when looking at the last 10 years, the US has committed a huge volume of troops and there has always been a tough stigma to break; troops feel weak by seeking counseling or psychological help despite it being a very critical aspect to their well-being.

Thats a factor in any military. The odds of everything happening (Friendly Fire, Fragging, Suicides, Civilian Casualties) Increase proportionally with volume. Its happening more in the US military because there is so much more US military to go around right now. They're also being sent into much more action. Many of them for extended periods of time that go beyond recommended guidelines.

Ghost Train wrote: »

psychiatrists being sent to war

Imagine the alternative! Do you have any idea what kind of stress a troop undergoes out in the war zone?

Neither do I. Thats the ****ing point. A lot more than the Poor-Me's in the PI forum, thats for damn sure.

Cunny-Funt

partyatmygaff wrote: »

Why is it always america?

Cause theres loads of Americans in America. Duh..

Manic Moran

The term for it is actually Fragging. Usually relating to mutiny.

It's only fragging if you kill your commander. This appears not to be the case.

psychiatrists being sent to war

'Shell shock' and related problems such as PTSD have been acknowledged by the military for several decades now. The best solutions for it are to be treated as soon as possible and as close to the front as possible, when the soldier is still amongst his friends/colleagues and can still perform some related duties. Hence the US sends psychiatrists to war zones now.

As an aside, it's not commonly known but military bases in the US are gun-free-zones. It is strictly prohibited to carry a sidearm on a federal installation unless using one in performance of a duty, even if the State the base is in (such as Texas) permits the carriage of firearms for defence. There was a planned incidident by a couple of lads to attack Ft Dix about two years ago, that would have been a real bloodbath had that succeeded.

NTM

Overheal

So unless you're on patrol/guard duty, your weapon is stored in the armory?

congo_90

who cares which country done it. It wasn't Ireland Lets have some jokes now try lighten the mood.

Obviously a sharpshooter


yea, i'll leave now

Manic Moran

Overheal wrote: »

So unless you're on patrol/guard duty, your weapon is stored in the armory?

Duty weapon, absolutely.

Personally owned weapons, it depends on where you live: If in barracks, the armoury. If you have a place of your own, then it must be locked up at home. Carrying it around with you is a serious no-no.

The US Army is absolutely paranoid about weapons, and the policy has garnered much derision. Soldiers are generally not taught to be comfortable with firearms, the safety measures and policies are such that a soldier is almost taught that he cannot be considered responsible for the weapon and he must be supervised at all times. It's to the point of "Oh my God.. I have ammunition! Somebody, check my weapon clear!" In practice, this resulted in a bunch of negligent discharges in theatre due to not following the 'train as you fight' philosophy: You don't get 'rodded' on and off the battlefield, you don't get pat-down searches for ammunition when you go into your hooch in Iraq. Fortunately, there have been recent moves towards, well, not 'Big Boy rules', but at least teaching people that 'There's nothing inherently dangerous about firearms, if you know what you're doing' and applying more realistic training standards.

NTM

brendansmith

keysersoze_88 wrote: »

Understandable to kill 12 ppl ?

Yes. To kill 12 people. :rolleyes:

Reindeer

artielange wrote: »

It's actually Texas not America:D

It's actually an Army military base, not the state militia, so it is on Federal/American property. There are at least 440 US Military installations/offices/bases in the States, every single one is Federal Property.

http://pao.hood.army.mil/

God bless those that died in the duty of serving their country. God bless the Pax Americana.

And bless those that have died in service of our own country. I should pray they get a bit more respect here than the American soldiers did should they die in an unfortunate incident.

irishultra

how many times have you heard about this happen here in europe(or more specifically lets say EU countries) very rarely. this despite the fact that the EU has another 150 million people than usa or something like that. messed up mindset they have there. perhaps its a product of multiculturalism?

Manic Moran

how many times have you heard about this happen here in europe(or more specifically lets say EU countries) very rarely.

Actually, I'm not sure that's true. I have a suspicion that for every VA Tech (Virginia, 32 dead, 2007), Columbine (Colorado, 13 dead, 1999), Trolley Square Mall (Utah, 5 dead, 2007) and Ft Hood (Texas, 12 dead, 2009) incident in the US, there's a Winnenden (Germany, 16 dead, 2009), Dunblane (UK, 17 dead, 1996), Jokela (Finland, 8 dead, 2007) or Zug (Switzerland, 14 dead, 2001) incident. I think part of the problem is that people can't even pronounce places like Kauhajoki (Finland, 11 dead, 2008) and so can't relate to them in quite the same manner. It just doesn't enter into the common lexicon quite as well. So yes, quite likely the multiculturalism plays a part, but simply because people don't pay much attention to places which aren't quite as familiar to them. I mean how many of you even knew that a student in Athens who was apparently tired of being mocked shot three people and then himself at a vocational school earlier this year? (Greece, 2009, 1 dead)

Or, maybe it's simply that people want to believe that those barbaric, gun loving Americans are the sort of people who will do that sort of thing, and peaceful Europeans cannot. In which case, enjoy your fantasy world.

NTM

Overheal

Manic Moran wrote: »

Actually, I'm not sure that's true. I have a suspicion that for every VA Tech (Virginia, 32 dead, 2007), Columbine (Colorado, 13 dead, 1999), Trolley Square Mall (Utah, 5 dead, 2007) and Ft Hood (Texas, 12 dead, 2009) incident in the US, there's a Winnenden (Germany, 16 dead, 2009), Dunblane (UK, 17 dead, 1996), Jokela (Finland, 8 dead, 2007) or Zug (Switzerland, 14 dead, 2001) incident. I think part of the problem is that people can't even pronounce places like Kauhajoki (Finland, 11 dead, 2008) and so can't relate to them in quite the same manner. It just doesn't enter into the common lexicon quite as well. So yes, quite likely the multiculturalism plays a part, but simply because people don't pay much attention to places which aren't quite as familiar to them. I mean how many of you even knew that a student in Athens who was apparently tired of being mocked shot three people and then himself at a vocational school earlier this year? (Greece, 2009, 1 dead)

Or, maybe it's simply that people want to believe that those barbaric, gun loving Americans are the sort of people who will do that sort of thing, and peaceful Europeans cannot.

NTM

Only in Amer- Oh wait.

00sully

Overheal wrote:

Care to back that with empirical evidence?

i'll field this - voting for george bush twice is as close as you can get to that stat.

Overheal

00sully wrote: »

i'll field this - voting for george bush twice is as close as you can get to that stat.

And vote for Kerry?

Voters were smart enough to give the Dems house and Senate. Things could have been much worse.

markesmith

Mark200 wrote: »

Obama to talk about it in a minute.

Oh, that should sort it all out.

Wertz

So is this a muslim thing or more of a mental issue thing? Or a mixture?

When it first popped up on rolling news last night I thought the parallel with the Afghani "policeman" shooting 5 british paratroopers dead on wednesday were a bit more than mere cooincidence...
How likely is it that muslim extremists have planted seeds amongst the ranks of western armies, and their affiliates, and that "inside" jobs like this are going to become a common tactic (assuming this is more terrorist than disgruntled employee)...?

tricky D

Manic Moran wrote: »

I have a suspicion that for every VA Tech (Virginia, 32 dead, 2007), Columbine (Colorado, 13 dead, 1999), Trolley Square Mall (Utah, 5 dead, 2007) and Ft Hood (Texas, 12 dead, 2009) incident in the US, there's a Winnenden (Germany, 16 dead, 2009), Dunblane (UK, 17 dead, 1996), Jokela (Finland, 8 dead, 2007) or Zug (Switzerland, 14 dead, 2001) incident. I think part of the problem is that people can't even pronounce places like Kauhajoki (Finland, 11 dead, 2008) and so ......

And the biggest single perp massacre of recent times: Port Arthur, Tasmania, Aus, 1996. 35 dead.

Manic Moran

And the biggest single perp massacre of recent times: Port Arthur, Tasmania, Aus, 1996. 35 dead.

Well, he did say 'Europe', and I confined myself to a few incidents that I knew off the top of my head. Cases like Australia's Port Arthur incident and Canada's Ecole Polytechnique (28 dead, 1989: Montreal's had four school shooting incidents in the last twenty years, incidently) are also noteworthy, though not actually applicable to the US/Europe argument at hand.

NTM

Poccington

brendansmith wrote: »

There are questions over if it was war stress. Which is understandable given that they have been fighting 2 different wars for 8 years

The little wanker never deployed.

PTSD or "war stress" doesn't come into it.

Naos

Overheal wrote: »

Only in Amer- Oh wait.

You must have that phrase permanently in your copy & paste clipboard.

walshb

Just reading up on this. The guy was a psychiatrist. I always knew that psychiatry was a flawed science. Anyway, the warnings were there and yet this guy is let roam freely amongst US soldiers and civilians?

Talk about the enemy within! Now, they don't even have to go to Iraq and Afghanistan to be butchered.
Ludicrous ****ed up world we're living in.

Nodin

Wertz wrote: »

So is this a muslim thing or more of a mental issue thing? Or a mixture?

More of a nut, so it seems.

Poccington

Some witnesses reported that he shouted "Allahu Akbar" before opening fire, it hasn't been confirmed by those investigating the matter though.

Wertz

Nodin wrote: »

More of a nut, so it seems.

Seems to be a lot of commentators and politicians calling for calm and for people not to jump to any conclussions until an official investigation and possible trial can reveal the facts (personally I thought "terrorist!" before I caught the shooter's name).
I don't know though....wouldn't Americans prefer that this was just another nutjob with his own take on the 2nd amendment, rather than a possible cancer in the midst of their defence forces?

Overheal

Naos wrote: »

You must have that phrase permanently in your copy & paste clipboard.

Im sure its almost half as nauseating to read, as Only in America.

Sir Gallagher

Manic Moran wrote: »

Well, he did say 'Europe', and I confined myself to a few incidents that I knew off the top of my head. Cases like Australia's Port Arthur incident and Canada's Ecole Polytechnique (28 dead, 1989: Montreal's had four school shooting incidents in the last twenty years, incidently) are also noteworthy, though not actually applicable to the US/Europe argument at hand.

NTM

Are we only talking about guncrime, if not, this springs to mind.

http://www.thestar.com/News/World/article/576007

There's people capable of these types of attacks all over the world. I would argue though that in America the level of exposure is so massive that the potential level of notoriety involved for the perpetrator could be a factor in commiting a crime such as this, just a thought.

Pretty_Pistol

Is it weird that only yesterday I wondered when the next American High school* shooting was going to happen?

*Yeah, this isn't a high school but it's a mass shooting!

Manic Moran

Wertz wrote: »

I don't know though....wouldn't Americans prefer that this was just another nutjob with his own take on the 2nd amendment, rather than a possible cancer in the midst of their defence forces?

It's been well known that the opposition would rather like to get an agent into the military. Doesn't even have to be muslim, look at Spc. Ryan Anderson, for example.

And I'm not sure if any of the US shootings have been motivated by a position on 2A, usually they're more motivated by feelings of being wronged.

NTM

kowloon

Manic Moran wrote: »

Or, maybe it's simply that people want to believe that those barbaric, gun loving Americans are the sort of people who will do that sort of thing, and peaceful Europeans cannot. In which case, enjoy your fantasy world.

More likely it's that we keep an eye on the US media, I don't know the name of any Finnish news channel, I don't have access to it, and even if I did, I wouldn't understand it. Fox and CNN on the other hand are listed under news in my Sky planner and Sky news repeats the US stuff ad nauseum.