Fog Lamp Regulations

wexican

In the " If you could make a new road traffic law what would it be? thread", Fog Lamps proved to be a hot topic. It got me wondering what exactly the law in Ireland is re: use of and installation (regulation of) Fog Lamps.

Currently I have 2 white (front) fog lamps and 1 red (rear) fog lamp on my Golf. Would I, for instance be allowed to change the front lamps to yellow bulbs like in this picture http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/Cjt1986/DSC00376.jpg ?

Also, what exactly are the laws re using fog lamps when driving? Visibility less than 100m or 50m?

Any input appreciated.

Hooch

wexican wrote: »

In the " If you could make a new road traffic law what would it be? thread", Fog Lamps proved to be a hot topic. It got me wondering what exactly the law in Ireland is re: use of and installation (regulation of) Fog Lamps.

Currently I have 2 white (front) fog lamps and 1 red (rear) fog lamp on my Golf. Would I, for instance be allowed to change the front lamps to yellow bulbs like in this picture http://i71.photobucket.com/albums/i133/Cjt1986/DSC00376.jpg ?

Also, what exactly are the laws re using fog lamps when driving? Visibility less than 100m or 50m?

Any input appreciated.

If my memory serves me right they may only be used in fog or falling snow.....but for the life of me I cannot find it in the statute book. I'll have to look when im back to work.

Section 51A RTA 1961-06 is what is used to prosecute for them. €80 and 2 penalty points for the FCPS.....bit harsh IMO but I have to agree they are annoying!!!

1 point and €80 for fog lights!!!

White and yellow are legal in accordance with the vehicle lighting regulations

Tragedy

Whats the difference(legally) between foglights and spots?

Hooch

Tragedy wrote: »

Whats the difference(legally) between foglights and spots?

Same thing. They are not high enough/power full enough to be headlights

Tragedy

So if a car has spots fitted(as different from front fogs), it's illegal to use them outside snow/fog?

Hooch

Tragedy wrote: »

So if a car has spots fitted(as different from front fogs), it's illegal to use them outside snow/fog?

Yep. It can also come under inessential lights, I.E. all the LED lights you see on the front of trucks are illegal andsome are being prosecuted at the moment.

Voodoomelon

What about Audi or Mercedes LED dot lighting, or BMW angel eyes, there has to be a line drawn surely. All of the above are inessential.

Rej

I always use a general rule of thumb that if I can see the rear lights of 6 cars, then I dont need them.. obviously this only applies when driving in traffic

On a bit of an aside - I hate when people use their front fogs as a regular lights!!

cascade35

People using rear fog lights for no reason is even worse than using the front ones.
Was behind a car recently, it was raining heavy(unusual)he put on the rear fog light as soon as he saw me behind him and left it on.
Very studit and dangerous.

Berty

I forsee this thread going off in an awful direction so I may as well add my 2 cents.

Some people argue on these forums that fog lights are essential when driving in heavy rain.

Thats all good and well because these people understand how to switch on and off fog lights. Then there are the people who just turn the dial and switch on everything their car has to offer not knowing what kind of lights they have even switched on.

Then there was the L Driver last night in Bruff Co Limerick driving along in the instructors car with the fog lights on. They were stopped in traffic so I said "You know fog lights are illegal to use and not the best example for the learner" to which she replied "oh on the country roads you need them to see the pot holes"

Trucks with LEDs are not annoying except of late where trucks are using flashing LED's. Red's LED's are illegal and only to be used by emergency vehicles and recovery vehicles not on the back of trucks. Some have the white LEDs on the front but they are cheap a*ss units are flash near blue instead of white giving you a false belief as you approach them.

I have not have my fog lights on in nearly a year. No fog for me equals no lights but I do not have a problem with people who use their fog lights. I am not blinded by them unless its an Impreza or a Nissan Micra.

cascade35

What hope have we got when learner drivers are been told to use fog lights to light up pot holes!

robtri

There's a big difference in spots and fog lamps....
"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Spots have a crystal clear lens and are used when main beam is used. Fog lamps have pattern len and are used when there is poor visibility and can only work when the sidelights are on"[/FONT] Uk regs but follow suit over here.

Fog lamps are not to be used unless conditions dictate that you should ,due to the fact they are too bright and should be aimed at a different angle to spots.

peasant

Tragedy wrote: »

Whats the difference(legally) between foglights and spots?

there is no such thing as "spots". The following lights can be found on a road legal car:

daytime running lights: Front lights only that come on as soon as the ignition is on and go off as soon as any of the "proper" lights are switched on

parking lights: dim bulbs at the front, normal rear lights. To be used when parking in unlit/dangerous areas. In some cars these are wired that only one side of the vehicle can be lit. They are not supposed to be used for driving

dipped headlights: normal front lights with an assymetrical beam pattern. To be used when driving in bad visibility or at night when there is oncoming traffic

full headlights: the normal headlights (sometimes in an additional lamp) with a full beam. Only to be used while driving at night when there is no danger of blinding other traffic.

front foglights: usually mounted low on the vehicle with a wide and short beam. Only to be used in fog (or heavy snow). The beam pattern is designed to shine under the fog and give you a view of the edge and the lines on the road. normal headlamps get reflected in the fog and just turn your view into a white wall, foglams help to light up the road and the edges so thatyou have some orientation.

rear foglights: one or two extra bright red rear lights to be used in thick fog only. The extra bright bulbs penetrate thick fog and make your car visible better for traffic from behind.

auxiliary driving lamps: these are extra full beam lamps that only may come on when full headlights are selected. Additional lights for dipped beam are illegal


and then there may be working lights that are only legal to use when the vehicle is off the road and/or stationary

dudara

Berty wrote: »

Then there are the people who just turn the dial and switch on everything their car has to offer not knowing what kind of lights they have even switched on.

There are a lot of people out there like that. I would be of the opinion that you should know what every light on your dashboard means. If you don't understand the indicator for the foglights then learn it.

Padraig Mor

nice guy always wrote: »

If my memory serves me right they may only be used in fog or falling snow.....but for the life of me I cannot find it in the statute book. I'll have to look when im back to work.

Section 51A RTA 1961-06 is what is used to prosecute for them. €80 and 2 penalty points for the FCPS.....bit harsh IMO but I have to agree they are annoying!!!

1 point and €80 for fog lights!!!

White and yellow are legal in accordance with the vehicle lighting regulations

My understanding is that it is against the spirit, but not the letter of the law to use foglights outside of fog or snow. IIRC the statute refers to foglights as being "designed for" use as above, but contains no specific prohibition on their use in other conditions.



edit: section 51 would seem to apply to being drunk on a horse and cart or bicycle!

wexican

nice guy always wrote: »

If my memory serves me right they may only be used in fog or falling snow.....but for the life of me I cannot find it in the statute book. I'll have to look when im back to work.

Section 51A RTA 1961-06 is what is used to prosecute for them. €80 and 2 penalty points for the FCPS.....bit harsh IMO but I have to agree they are annoying!!!

1 point and €80 for fog lights!!!

White and yellow are legal in accordance with the vehicle lighting regulations

Thanks nga. Interesting to hear about the penalty points. Seems quite harsh indeed.

The laws on vehicle lighting has always intrigued me, especialy when I see bue-ish or green-ish hue headlights, yellow fogs etc!

kuro_man

fog lights are used for

1. foggy/snowy conditions
2. light mist/rain
3. Nissan Micras (maybe they can't be turned off)
4. Warning faster cars on the motorway that you are not going to move to the inside lane to let them pass
5. To compensate for the blown bulb that you haven't got around to replacing
6. to be REALLY visible and therefore extra safe

no1beemerfan

I've no problem with front fog lights if they are pointing DOWN. As they should be! And the amount of cars with mis-aligned headlight that are leathal in rain etc for dazzling.

I'd be safe in saying that only 10% or less of people actually check their lights (or know how to use them correctly!).

OT but was behind a Golf the other day and NO brake lights working. :eek:

Sleipnir

Berty wrote: »

Then there are the people who just turn the dial and switch on everything their car has to offer not knowing what kind of lights they have even switched on.

Well done Honda for having a rear-fog light that switches off when the engine is turned off requiring it to be manually switched on again when you restart.

Dacelonid

kuro_man wrote: »

fog lights are used for

3. Nissan Micras (maybe they can't be turned off)

Not sure about newer models, but in the 2002 model, the fog light controls are on the stalk with the main lights, and it is very easy to accidentally turn them on, and there is no light on the dash to say the front fogs are on, there is only a light for the rear ones.

Gary ITR

Berty have you completed the 'Defensive Driving' course in work? Most people in our trade have to do it. When I did it I was told to turn on my fogs during the day, in essence use them as DRL's

JHMEG

peasant wrote: »

there is no such thing as "spots". The following lights can be found on a road legal car:

daytime running lights: Front lights only that come on as soon as the ignition is on and go off as soon as any of the "proper" lights are switched on

parking lights: dim bulbs at the front, normal rear lights. To be used when parking in unlit/dangerous areas. In some cars these are wired that only one side of the vehicle can be lit. They are not supposed to be used for driving

dipped headlights: normal front lights with an assymetrical beam pattern. To be used when driving in bad visibility or at night when there is oncoming traffic

full headlights: the normal headlights (sometimes in an additional lamp) with a full beam. Only to be used while driving at night when there is no danger of blinding other traffic.

front foglights: usually mounted low on the vehicle with a wide and short beam. Only to be used in fog (or heavy snow). The beam pattern is designed to shine under the fog and give you a view of the edge and the lines on the road. normal headlamps get reflected in the fog and just turn your view into a white wall, foglams help to light up the road and the edges so thatyou have some orientation.

rear foglights: one or two extra bright red rear lights to be used in thick fog only. The extra bright bulbs penetrate thick fog and make your car visible better for traffic from behind.

auxiliary driving lamps: these are extra full beam lamps that only may come on when full headlights are selected. Additional lights for dipped beam are illegal


and then there may be working lights that are only legal to use when the vehicle is off the road and/or stationary

You might provide some links to the Statute Book or other legislation, as I don't believe there is a basis for anything other than headlights and foglights in Irish law.

It BeeMee

Sleipnir wrote: »

Well done Honda for having a rear-fog light that switches off when the engine is turned off requiring it to be manually switched on again when you restart.

But not so well done on having 2 brightfoglights in the middle of the rear of a civic...

On VAG cars you have to pull out the light switch to turn on the fogs. When you turn off your lights, the switch moves back into "home" position. Hence the next time you need to pull out the switch to turn on the fogs again.

Is it me or do spotlights seem to be a rare thing these days? Remember when you could buy a front grill for your car with the spots built in? These were wired to come on only when the headlights were on full beam, so the chances of blinding someone were minimised.

Edit: Peasant's list describes these as auxiliary driving lamps

JHMEG

It BeeMee wrote: »

But not so well done on having 2 brightfoglights in the middle of the rear of a civic...

Which model is that?

Zulu

I had a clown with full beams & fogs on behind me this morning at 8:45am, blinding me. I flashed my rear fogs (as he couldn't understand my wild gesticulations) when stopped at the lights, but he only managed to dip the full beams.
To me, that clown looked at his dash, and saw two notification lights - one for full beams and one for fogs, but he choose to ignore one. Why? Bloody clown. :mad:

Paulw

Padraig Mor wrote: »

My understanding is that it is against the spirit, but not the letter of the law to use foglights outside of fog or snow. IIRC the statute refers to foglights as being "designed for" use as above, but contains no specific prohibition on their use in other conditions.

Incorrect. It's actually law.

S.I. No. 189/1963:

ROAD TRAFFIC (LIGHTING OF VEHICLES) REGULATIONS, 1963
PART VI

(8) Where a vehicle equipped with a fog lamp within the meaning of article 44 of these Regulations is used in a public place, such lamp shall be used only in fog or while snow is falling.

avalon68

no1beemerfan wrote: »

And the amount of cars with mis-aligned headlight that are leathal in rain etc for dazzling.

I have to say this annoys me far more than fog lights, especially when people replace one of their bulbs with high powered blinding lights (as many seem to do). I was driving on a really dark, but straight road last night and an oncoming car had lights as bright as ones you would see on a football pitch. I thought he was on fulls so i gave him a little flash, and then he flashed me back with his fulls....my retinas still hurt! ANyway, his lights nearly caused an accident, I had to slow down - couldnt see out of the car. A car approached me from behind at speed. At the same time (thankfully!) I noticed something moving on the side of the road (An elderly man walking home). I had to swerve, the car behind me had to swerve to avoid hitting into the back of me. When he swerved out he suddenly became blinded by the lights of the oncoming car (which was still a ways off). So eventually there were three cars stopped in the middle of the road and one very terrified old man. I gave out to the guy about his lights and his only response was I need them to see where Im going and then he drove off! Couldnt see anything wrong with having lights that bright at all after nearly causing an accident!:rolleyes:

It BeeMee

JHMEG wrote: »

Which model is that?

I'm pretty sure it's the two door? Two bright red lights over the numberplate area, fairly central on the back.

Could be wrong - hard to see the model behind all that red glow

Padraig Mor

Paulw wrote: »

Incorrect. It's actually law.

S.I. No. 189/1963:

ROAD TRAFFIC (LIGHTING OF VEHICLES) REGULATIONS, 1963
PART VI

(8) Where a vehicle equipped with a fog lamp within the meaning of article 44 of these Regulations is used in a public place, such lamp shall be used only in fog or while snow is falling.

Cheers. Interesting that it only applies to front fogs though.

kodute

kuro_man wrote: »

fog lights are used for
5. To compensate for the blown bulb that you haven't got around to replacing

Grinds my gears... Was behind a golf driver the other night who had their rear fog on because their rear lights didn't work! :mad: Thankfully their brake lights did.

cascade35

Onkle wrote: »

Berty have you completed the 'Defensive Driving' course in work? Most people in our trade have to do it. When I did it I was told to turn on my fogs during the day, in essence use them as DRL's

What is the defensive driving course?

Cabaal

kodute wrote: »

Grinds my gears... Was behind a golf driver the other night who had their rear fog on because their rear lights didn't work! :mad: Thankfully their brake lights did.

At yes the whole I'm a lazy bastard and haven't got one of my lights replaced...shame some people keep this going for many weeks or months and its very dangerous!

Pisses me off no end

JHMEG

It BeeMee wrote: »

I'm pretty sure it's the two door? Two bright red lights over the numberplate area, fairly central on the back.

Could be wrong - hard to see the model behind all that red glow

Since you couldn't make it out it's likely it wasn't a Civic!

There's no 2-door in this market, so I presume you mean the 3/5-door, which only comes with one rear fog light.

blackbox

JHMEG wrote: »

You might provide some links to the Statute Book or other legislation, as I don't believe there is a basis for anything other than headlights and foglights in Irish law.

In legal terms, spotlights are "full headlamps" as in

full headlights: the normal headlights (sometimes in an additional lamp) with a full beam. Only to be used while driving at night when there is no danger of blinding other traffic.

They should be wired so that they go off when you dip your lights.

blackbox

As a matter of interest, can anyone advise what is the specification for a "daylight running light" and how it is distinguished from a foglamp?

How do the Gardai tell the difference?

It BeeMee

JHMEG wrote: »

Since you couldn't make it out it's likely it wasn't a Civic!

There's no 2-door in this market, so I presume you mean the 3/5-door, which only comes with one rear fog light.

The 3 door version.

And the same link you provide has instructions on how to add a second.
It's not inconceivable that anyone that insists on using their rear fogs all the time will take the time to hook up the second one, is it?

peasant

blackbox wrote: »

As a matter of interest, can anyone advise what is the specification for a "daylight running light" and how it is distinguished from a foglamp?

How do the Gardai tell the difference?

A DRL (in a special housing and not a dimmed down dipped light) has no specific beam pattern, it's just a bright light. A foglight bends the beam to illuminate a short, wide field in front of the car. A DLR just shines directly ahead. But because it has far less power (mine have 7.5 W LED's, a foglight has 50 W) it doesn't blind you.

DLR's have a special "RL" mark on the glass which specifies them as running lights. Aftermarket daytime running lights without the "RL" mark are illegal.

Tragedy

I've played around with my front+rear fogs on an empty road at night. I really don't see the point of the front fogs, as peasant says > it illuminates right in front of the car, which the beams do anyway

rebel.ranter

cascade35 wrote: »

What is the defensive driving course?

Here:

http://www.nifast.ie/driver_training/index.htm

or here:

http://www.ism.ie/index.php?page=advanced_driving

A lot of company car insurers insist that companies put their employess on these type of training/assessment courses every two years in order to avail of a discount. If you have completed the ISM one you may be intitled to a discount off your own personal insurance as well.

JHMEG

It BeeMee wrote: »

It's not inconceivable that anyone that insists on using their rear fogs all the time will take the time to hook up the second one, is it?

Aye, but you apportioned blame to Honda.

Berty

Onkle wrote: »

Berty have you completed the 'Defensive Driving' course in work? Most people in our trade have to do it. When I did it I was told to turn on my fogs during the day, in essence use them as DRL's

Nope. They just hand me the keys to the car and say "off you go"

Gary ITR

cascade35 wrote: »

What is the defensive driving course?

'Don't tailgate, don't speed, watch out for people pulling out in front of you'

That's about 90% of it

Drummerboy08

Onkle wrote: »

'Don't tailgate, don't speed, watch out for people pulling out in front of you'

That's about 90% of it

I bet you threw about 85% of it out the window on the way home :pac:

Gary ITR

Drummerboy08 wrote: »

I bet you threw about 85% of it out the window on the way home :pac:

I don't tailgate, if they don't get out of my way I drive over them

Fey!

Berty wrote: »

Some people argue on these forums that fog lights are essential when driving in heavy rain.

I find that when it's raining, foglights tend to glare on the wet road, causing even more irritation than in the dry.

Berty wrote: »

Thats all good and well because these people understand how to switch on and off fog lights. Then there are the people who just turn the dial and switch on everything their car has to offer not knowing what kind of lights they have even switched on.

Thankfully a lot of cars automaticly shut off the rear fogs with the ignition, so it has to be manually turned on each time. Unfortunately the same cannot be said for front fogs.

Berty wrote: »

Then there was the L Driver last night in Bruff Co Limerick driving along in the instructors car with the fog lights on. They were stopped in traffic so I said "You know fog lights are illegal to use and not the best example for the learner" to which she replied "oh on the country roads you need them to see the pot holes"

Proof that driving instructors need to have some kind of qualification to teach, rather than morons perpetating the problems by teaching their own bad habits.

In reference to the "spot lights", these MUST have a seperate switch to allow them to be turned off, and must also be linked to full beams so that when the full beams are turned off, so are the spots.

Fog lights are for reduced visibility such as fog and snow (the clue is in the name). They should not be used instead of dimmed lights, as seen by a lot of clueless muppets and more than a few taxi drivers (I personally hold the view that anyone doing this should be charges with driving without consideration for other road users).

Parking lights, which in newer Audis are the row of LEDs and in BMW are the "Angel Eyes", are to allow the vehicle be seen when stopped and unoccupied where visibility may be bad. In some cars the lights on one side will light up if the car is parked at a slant, such as 2 wheels up on the footpath.

It is, I have been reliably informed by a member of the traffic corps, illegal to have lights above 3' off the ground. It is also illegal to have any colour other than white, yellow or orange lights on the front of your vehicle, and red, white and orange on the rear.

cascade35

Onkle wrote: »

'Don't tailgate, don't speed, watch out for people pulling out in front of you'

That's about 90% of it

Sounds like very placid driving to me!lol

It BeeMee

JHMEG wrote: »

Aye, but you apportioned blame to Honda.

Fair point, apologies.

Fey! wrote: »

It is also illegal to have any colour other than white, yellow or orange lights on the front of your vehicle, and red, white and orange on the rear.

If this was enforced, along with penalties for incorrect use of foglights or any defective lighting, the GTC would hit their targets* within a few hours...



*if such targets did exist, of course

Voodoomelon

I always give cars coming towards me a few seconds to dip their lights before I give them a flash.
I waited a few seconds a few weeks back and the car coming towards me still had their full beams on after 3-4 seconds so I gave them a quick flash. No response. Gave them another flash as it was getting dangerous as I couldnt see a thing and still nothing. I started giving a few consecutive flashes and then they copped on and dipped them. Turned out it was a white Avensis with big Garda stickers on it. :pac:

peasant wrote: »

parking lights: dim bulbs at the front, normal rear lights. To be used when parking in unlit/dangerous areas. In some cars these are wired that only one side of the vehicle can be lit. They are not supposed to be used for driving.

Not true, its perfectly acceptable to drive with your parking lights on, essentially the same as DRLs. In fact I would recommend that they be turned on.

Jack O'Neill

Rules of the Road State -

"It is good practice to use dipped headlights or dim/dip lights, where fitted, instead of only sidelights in built-up areas where there is good street lighting."

"Use fog lights only during dense fog and falling snow. You must turn them off at all other times"