UPDATE: *Tesco Bakery Products may contain animal fats!!!*

sweet-rasmus

see post number 9

I emailed Tesco last week and asked them about the absence of labeling of bakery products (such as baguettes, bread rolls and apple tarts, etc.) baked in store (the inclusion of animal derived enzymes, butter, an egg wash or other animal derived ingredients is a possibility which I take into account, as with all baked products).

I got a nice reply back today and they said:

I can confirm our bakery holds information for the products they produce. Please ask to see the Bakery manager who consult this manual.

So looks like I'm going to quiz the local bakery manager on the vegan status of things next time I dare Good to know.

embraer170

How did it go?

sweet-rasmus

haven't found the time yet. but i will eventually!

Thoushaltnot

I emailed about the ingredients in Tiger Loaf. One was that l-cysteine-y thing, that *may* be a product of human hair/sheepswool.

I didn't bother replying to ask where it was derived from, just didn't bother buying Tiger Loaf again.
So, if you do ask, be sure and ask about the ingredients ingredients.
If you never buy again from the bakery in Tesco's, I wouldn't blame ya.
It does seem easier to just grow and bake it all yourself sometimes.

sweet-rasmus

I asked about the ingredients of a bakery product in my local Tesco recently. I was told that they could not tell me the ingredients. I replied and said that I was not looking for the recipe, but simply wanted to know what the product contained. I was then told to contact Tesco Head Office.

I have re-written to customer services to ask them what they are playing at!

maameeo

wow, like its a big secret! surely its the law that they tell u what ur eating! grrr id be angry too!

Absurdum

Would it hurt their profits too much to have a simple chart listing what's veggie, vegan, gluten free, etc? :rolleyes:

sweet-rasmus

True. Well, if they know there is demand for it, they might realise... one day.

If anyone wants to email customer.service@tesco.co.uk and add their concern, it would be a step in the right direction. (And yes, it's the address for Irish Tesco stores too)

sweet-rasmus

Ok, finally got another reply. Bloomfieds in Dun Laoghaire is my local one where I had enquired about the products.

Many thanks for your enquiry regarding the suitability of our bakery products for Vegans and hopefully a list of the ingredients.

I have spoken to Chris the Bakery Manager and he has assured me that most of the range have animal fats, milk or egg in them and that he is unable to supply you with these lists.

If there are a few particular products which you would like to know about, then Chris has said that if you come in to store, he will have a chat with you about them. Obviously he is unable to go through every item that is on display.

I hope this explains and thank you again for your interest.

I'm not impressed. That means that suitability for vegetarians is questionable too. If any of you are up to it, I ask that you write asking for ingredient lists or ask for the manager when you are there and check if it is suitable for vegetarians.

And I'm doubting the egg is free range too.

That is a fairly snotty reply.

Mark Hamill

Many thanks for your enquiry regarding the suitability of our bakery products for Vegans and hopefully a list of the ingredients.

I have spoken to Chris the Bakery Manager and he has assured me that most of the range have animal fats, milk or egg in them and that he is unable to supply you with these lists.

If there are a few particular products which you would like to know about, then Chris has said that if you come in to store, he will have a chat with you about them. Obviously he is unable to go through every item that is on display.

I hope this explains and thank you again for your interest.

The parts in bold have made me just decide to stop eating any bakery products from Tesco altogether. The fact that neither the head office nor the bakery manager himself is unable/unwilling to supply a list of ingredients for the food they themselves make, makes me suspect that they are putting things in their food they dont public: ingredients of animal origin probably, but given that they have already admitted that they contain animal fats, who knows what else they stuff in there?

Mark Hamill

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

I'm not impressed. That means that suitability for vegetarians is questionable too. If any of you are up to it, I ask that you write asking for ingredient lists or ask for the manager when you are there and check if it is suitable for vegetarians.

And I'm doubting the egg is free range too.

I just wrote to tesco with a short emailing asking for an ingredients list for their bakery, I'll probably just get the same response as you though.
I've also emailed consumerconnect.ie asking about wether a retailer is required to know the ingredients they use in unpackaged goods that they make(as far as I can tell, the EU directive on labelling requires that packaged food is fully labelled, but nonpackaged food seems to be overlooked).

embraer170

Thanks for following this up.

Animal fats = butter etc right?

embraer170

embraer170 wrote: »

Thanks for following this up.

Animal fats = butter etc right?

No....it would be actual fat from animals.

Thoushaltnot

Right, my local, 'proper' Tesco is in Rathmines and on some of the shelves, they wre supplying a text number/email addy and store identification number in a "rate my local tesco" kinda customer feedback kinda thang a few days ago. Will have a recheck again later today. Well they do appear to be asking...

Slaphead07

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Right, my local, 'proper' Tesco is in Rathmines and on some of the shelves, they wre supplying a text number/email addy and store identification number in a "rate my local tesco" kinda customer feedback kinda thang a few days ago. Will have a recheck again later today. Well they do appear to be asking...

I was the Rtahmines branch earlier. I have no reason to believe they'd take any notice of anyone. Customers had to go to the far checkout to get a basket while several members of staff (in uniform) stood at the paper stand reading the very papers they were about to sell.
It's also the worst branch for veggie products, a fraction of the range available elsewhere and rarely in the same place twice.

the beer revolu

This isn't really a vegetarian/vegan issue - it's a consumer food issue!!

I'm not vegetarian but I do want to know the ingredients in products that I eat.

I'd be interested to know the result of the consumerconnect query concerning labelling of unpackaged foods.
It seems crazy that a manufacturer can not label ingredients just because thay decide to not package it!!

sweet-rasmus

I sent on the info to the irish vegetarian soceity. They might put it in their next magazine, let others know. But I guess I'd hope they help do something about it!

Thoushaltnot

The latest VSI mag (Autumn '09) has a piece in it on breads but just the bakeries proper and branded ones, with Cuisine de France, Soul Bakery, Allied Bakeries (apart from the Omega 3 bread) and Blazing Salads coming out as most veg*n friendly.

Brennans, Irish Pride & Johnson Mooney & O'Brien also get a good mention.

sweet-rasmus

i had really better open the magazine and read it then! haven't had a chance since it arrived in the post... thanks for the heads up

Absurdum

Seems like a very lazy, cop-out response by Tesco tbh, like they couldn't be arse doing a little research on behalf of genuine customer queries. Maybe they're too busy changing their change for good campaign :mad:

Mellor

embraer170 wrote: »

Thanks for following this up.

Animal fats = butter etc right?

Moonbaby wrote: »

No....it would be actual fat from animals.

It's probably shortening or lard used instead of butter (as its cheaper). I thought all bread/baked goodswould have milk or butter in it anyway, making it non-vegan-friendly (I could be wrong obviously)

Mark Hamill

the beer revolu wrote: »

This isn't really a vegetarian/vegan issue - it's a consumer food issue!!

I'm not vegetarian but I do want to know the ingredients in products that I eat.

I'd be interested to know the result of the consumerconnect query concerning labelling of unpackaged foods.
It seems crazy that a manufacturer can not label ingredients just because thay decide to not package it!!

Just to let you know then, the consumerconnect people replied saying that the food safety authority (fsai.ie) were the best people to ask, so I emailed them (last Friday, I think) with the same query. I'm waiting for a reply .

sweet-rasmus

good stuff!

i-digress

I emailed Tesco too. Surely consumers have the right to know what they're eating, right?:rolleyes:

Thoushaltnot

If it is lard from cows, would this be replaced during a meat industry scandal, like foot & mouth/CJD? Or overlooked? What about Hindus that don't eat meat? I'm sure we don't have too many around but you could argue that it would need to be labelled on religious grounds for them. The Jews have laws about separating meat and dairy (found myself wondering about this recently wrt traditional cheese), so I assume Tesco bakery products are, in the main, not Pareve either.

As for pork fat, obviously the muslims and jews would need to know on religious grounds too. And the recent pork scandal with the elevated toxins level? Toxins accumulate in animals fatty tissue.

It's not just a veggie issue at all.

ztoical

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

If it is lard from cows, would this be replaced during a meat industry scandal, like foot & mouth/CJD? Or overlooked? What about Hindus that don't eat meat? I'm sure we don't have too many around but you could argue that it would need to be labelled on religious grounds for them. The Jews have laws about separating meat and dairy (found myself wondering about this recently wrt traditional cheese), so I assume Tesco bakery products are, in the main, not Pareve either.

As for pork fat, obviously the muslims and jews would need to know on religious grounds too. And the recent pork scandal with the elevated toxins level? Toxins accumulate in animals fatty tissue.

It's not just a veggie issue at all.

+ 1 even if they use vegetable shortening it should be labeled to make it clear if it's reduce/removed trans fat or not. People with health issues would need to be aware.

Mark Hamill

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

If it is lard from cows, would this be replaced during a meat industry scandal, like foot & mouth/CJD? Or overlooked? What about Hindus that don't eat meat? I'm sure we don't have too many around but you could argue that it would need to be labelled on religious grounds for them. The Jews have laws about separating meat and dairy (found myself wondering about this recently wrt traditional cheese), so I assume Tesco bakery products are, in the main, not Pareve either.

As for pork fat, obviously the muslims and jews would need to know on religious grounds too. And the recent pork scandal with the elevated toxins level? Toxins accumulate in animals fatty tissue.

It's not just a veggie issue at all.

Its not just pork fat that would be an issue for muslims, all beef and chicken products (fats, oils, gelatine etc) have to be halal (slaughtered in a certain way by a muslim, while reciting a prayer of some sort). I sincerely doubt tesco are using halal animal fats in their bakery as they would be more expensive here due to their relative rarity in this country.

rubadub

Absurdum wrote: »

Would it hurt their profits too much to have a simple chart listing what's veggie, vegan, gluten free, etc? :rolleyes:

The lack of list/chart would make me simply presume none are veggie/vegan/gluten free -otherwise they would probably be shouting about it as a selling point.

I expect they keep costs down by changing ingredients all the time from batch to batch, so if it is not a legal requirement to have have ingredients lists then they would not do it to increase profits. I doubt this is particular to tesco by any means, I expect others would not want to give out lists esp. as they can probably change at any time like I mentioned.

sweet-rasmus

I heard that M+S are happy to check ingredients for you... They might be better at providing the information on request.

Thoushaltnot

http://www.marksandspencer.com/Product-Information-Lists-Special-Diets-About-our-Food-Food-Wine/b/206654031

sweet-rasmus

Erm, anyone know why meat is on their vegan list?!?!?!??

Meat F38C
20 British Beef Meatballs
Aberdeen Angus Peppered Rump Steak
Chilli Con Carne Burgers Filled With Soured Cream
Creamy Peppercorn Filled Burgers With Peppercorn Crust
Peppered Rump Steak Salt & Pepper Lamb Shoulder Joint

all vegan approved apparently!

Thoushaltnot

Maybe it's like the Simpson's episode when the McCartneys descend on Springfield and it turns out that the hot dogs Apu's been selling are made of tofu instead of meat...and nobody'd noticed.

Och, that list was fine in the Summer!

sweet-rasmus

I sent them a message about it. I'm sure they just mis-labelled the list.

Absurdum

Mellor wrote: »

It's probably shortening or lard used instead of butter (as its cheaper). I thought all bread/baked goodswould have milk or butter in it anyway, making it non-vegan-friendly (I could be wrong obviously)

have a look at this thread for some info
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055141428

some of it may have changed since though

i-digress

Hey, I got this reply from Tesco.

I'm pleased to hear that you shop in Tesco regularly but you're disappointed because you're unable to purchase from the bakery section as the ingredients aren't listed. I can appreciate the annoyance caused by this.

The store should have guide pages which do carry ingredients and allergen information for products. This information is provided to cover customers requests for information.

Customers with allergens should be made aware of the cross contamination risk within the in store bakery, this is not allowed for in the allergen information provided which only covers the ingredients in the product".

ISB Bread - Please note with ISB that we do handle non vegan products and we do use cheese in the ISB which will carry a risk of cross contamination.

However the following products from an ingredient point of view are Vegan.

Standard White products
Split tin 800g & 400g
Sandwich Tin 800g
Bloomers 400g & 800g
Tiger Bread 800g & 400g
Farmhouse 400g & 800g
4 large white baps
Soft white rolls
White finger rolls
White hot dog rolls
Seeded burger buns
White snack rolls
Scotch morning rolls
Plain baguette
Plain baton
Seeded baguette
Poppy Seed Baguette
Tiger baguette
Tiger rolls
Crusty white round rolls
Sandwich Baguette

Granary
Granary soft rolls
Malted Grain Tin 800
Granary Baguette
Granary Baton
Granary Torpedo

Finest Rustic Multigrain
Finest Rustic Multigrain 400g
Finest Rustic Multigrain 800g
Finest Rustic Multigrain Boule
Finest French Baguette & Baton

Wholemeal
Wholemeal bread tin 400g
Wholemeal bread tin 800g
Large wholemeal baps
Wholemeal soft rolls
Wholemeal baps
Wholemeal finger rolls

Organic
Organic White Tin 800g
Organic Wholemeal Tin 800g

Bagels

Sesame bagels
Plain Bagels

Stonebake
Stonebaked Baguette
800g Stonebaked Longue
Stonebaked Sourdough Bloomer

Finest French
Finest Baguette
Finest Baton
Finest Petit Pain
Kalamata Olive Bouchon

I hope this can be of some help to you and thank you for your enquiry.

sweet-rasmus

at last! thanks i-digress

sweet-rasmus

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

Erm, anyone know why meat is on their vegan list?!?!?!??

Meat F38C
20 British Beef Meatballs
Aberdeen Angus Peppered Rump Steak
Chilli Con Carne Burgers Filled With Soured Cream
Creamy Peppercorn Filled Burgers With Peppercorn Crust
Peppered Rump Steak Salt & Pepper Lamb Shoulder Joint

all vegan approved apparently!

M+S replied but they didn't seem to read the email. Ugh! I really would have expected better from them.

Marks and Spenser wrote:

Thanks for emailing us about our Diet list.

I'm sorry to hear that you're not happy with our website Diet list. I'd like to inform you that I've passed your comments to our website team, who are always keen to hear any feedback and suggestions from our customers so we can improve our service.

What I can also advise you on is that we regularly review and update our website and we are grateful for the comments and suggestions of our customers. Wherever possible, we make changes to the website based on what the feedback we receive.

Thank you for bringing this to our attention. I hope this information is helpful and may have a lovely day.

Mark Hamill

I just got the following reply from the FSAI:

FSAI wrote:

Hi Mark,

Thank you for contacting the Food Safety Authority of Ireland. The
reason for the derogation which exempts unpackaged food from the full
labelling requirements is that the food business selling the food can
provide information on ingredients etc at the customer's request. In
relation to your query the retailer selling unpackaged food should be
able to provide the list of ingredients on request.

Under current labelling legislation only the name of the food has to be
indicated either on the label or displayed near the name of the food.
However FSAI recommends that food sold without pre-packaging also
details the date of minimum durability, the presence of any allergenic
ingredients and the species of animal and meat content for meat
products.

Information on the allergens which require mandatory labelling can be
accessed on our website at: http://www.fsai.ie/faq/allergens.html


Regards,

Vanessa Cooling
Information Assistant

Food Safety Authority of Ireland
Tel: 01-8171336
Fax: 01-8171236
www.fsai.ie

Seemed to repeat what I read before, that the retailer should be able to supply ingredient lists for non pre-packaged foods. I have replied asking for clarification on that, asking if retailers have to supply ingredient lists when asked, or if they are allowed to deny that request.

Mark Hamill

i-digress wrote: »

Standard White products
Split tin 800g & 400g
Sandwich Tin 800g
Bloomers 400g & 800g
Tiger Bread 800g & 400g
Farmhouse 400g & 800g
4 large white baps
Soft white rolls
White finger rolls
White hot dog rolls
Seeded burger buns
White snack rolls
Scotch morning rolls
Plain baguette
Plain baton
Seeded baguette
Poppy Seed Baguette
Tiger baguette
Tiger rolls
Crusty white round rolls
Sandwich Baguette

Didn't I read someone here saying that they where told in their tesco that the tiger bread had l-cysteine in it, making it non vegan (and non vegie depending on source)?

bren33

sweet-rasmus wrote: »

True. Well, if they know there is demand for it, they might realise... one day.

If anyone wants to email customer.service@tesco.co.uk and add their concern, it would be a step in the right direction. (And yes, it's the address for Irish Tesco stores too)

go people power!

i-digress

'Didn't I read someone here saying that they where told in their tesco that the tiger bread had l-cysteine in it, making it non vegan (and non vegie depending on source)?'


Yeah, you did. Because that's the EXACT thought that went through my head when I got the email!

embraer170

I also contacted Tesco on this.

Let's see what they say.

Thoushaltnot

i-digress wrote: »

'Didn't I read someone here saying that they where told in their tesco that the tiger bread had l-cysteine in it, making it non vegan (and non vegie depending on source)?'


Yeah, you did. Because that's the EXACT thought that went through my head when I got the email!

Yup. Potentially non veg*n. The ingredients for Tiger loaf include "tiger paste" which contains "flour treatment agents (***, L-cysteine hydrochloride)".

As I said at the time, I just couldn't be @rsed re-mailing them to find out what the source of the l-cysteine hydrochloride was. It could be safe for veg*ns or it could be from sheeps wool/duck or chicken feathers or it could be from hair from the floor of chinese barber shops (keratin).

See 910/920 here;
http://www.veggieglobal.com/nutrition/non-vegetarian-food-additives.htm

Voltex

Breads from resco are produced, in the main, from Palm Oils, and Rapeseed Oils and all of wich are HVO free.
I havent seen animal fat used in bread for years....

Voltex

Thoushaltnot wrote: »

Yup. Potentially non veg*n. The ingredients for Tiger loaf include "tiger paste" which contains "flour treatment agents (***, L-cysteine hydrochloride)".

As I said at the time, I just couldn't be @rsed re-mailing them to find out what the source of the l-cysteine hydrochloride was. It could be safe for veg*ns or it could be from sheeps wool/duck or chicken feathers or it could be from hair from the floor of chinese barber shops (keratin).

See 910/920 here;
http://www.veggieglobal.com/nutrition/non-vegetarian-food-additives.htm

L-Cystine is whats refered to as a "reducing agent". It basically helps relax bread doughs, making them flow, and allows greater extensibility. Common ingredient in bread and totally inert.

ztoical

Voltex wrote: »

Common ingredient in bread and totally inert.

I'm not sure what you mean by "inert" in context of this thread.... L-cysteine hydrochloride can be extracted from duck and chicken feathers, human hair or animal hair or it can be synthetically produced from coal tar.

Mark Hamill

So I got a reply from the FSAI about wether retailers are required to have ingredient lists for non-prepackaged food:

Hi Mark,

They are required to have this information on site in order to answer customer queries regarding the ingredients. If you are having difficulty getting information from a retail outlet I can give you the contact details for the local environmental health section. They can check to ensure that the retailer has all of the relevant information on site.

regards,

Vanessa Cooling
Information Assistant

Food Safety Authority of Ireland
Tel: 01-8171336
Fax: 01-8171236
www.fsai.ie

So it seems like retailers do have to have the ingredient information on site so they can give it out when asked for, and that the local enviromental health section can be contacted if there are issues. I would imagine that they cant even use the excuse that ingredients change according to season, as they would still be required to know what they are putting into their food regardless of how often they change the recipe.
A good response, I think.

Nunubird

Re the M&S vegan list, I also noticed teacakes and doughnuts I'd be delighted if both were vegan but I have my doubts.