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N13/N15 - Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass [preferred route published; design underway]

  • 29-10-2009 10:04am
    #1
    Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭


    http://www.nra.ie/RoadSchemeActivity/DonegalCountyCouncil/N15BallybofeyStranorlarBypass/SchemeName,16524,en.html

    This scheme, part of the Atlantic Corridor, has been refused by ABP according to todays Donegal Democrat. Its not on the Democrat website yet but it is definitely in the print edition (I've got it here).

    Ignoring it being part of the AC this was first proposed around the time I was born... and has been under proper planning since 2000. Its the last major traffic bottleneck in the county other than the realistically unfixable Letterkenny and the bypass and associated schemes would also have sorted some very poor roads around the twin towns.

    Will have to wait to see the ABP decision when it goes online next week, but odds on it being very stupid/petty are fairly high.


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Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 230 ✭✭johnbk


    I find it hard to figure out what has happened with An Bord Pleanála. Here is Many Coughlans response.


    Tanaiste Mary Coughlan says Twin Towns Bypass must go ahead Oct 29, 9:14 am

    The Tanaiste Mary Coughlan has said every effort must now be made to ensure that the Ballybofey/Stranorlar bypass goes ahead following a decision by An Bord Pleanala to reject the current plans.

    There was wide spread shock at the announcement yesterday which is seen as a major setback for the by-pass which was due to open in 2013.

    An Bord Pleanála has called for the scheme to be redesigned and a new EIS to be carried out highlighting road safety and environmental protection as its principal concerns.

    Mary Coughlan has already spoken to the NRA and county manager to discuss the issue and says the problems identified must be addressed as soon as possible.


    http://www.highlandradio.com/news.php?articleid=000005096

    My views are my own.



  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    You can read ABP's decision at http://www.pleanala.ie/casenum/HA0009.htm

    It reads to me as a major criticism of the NRA/Donegal County Council and that the route planning was poor and shoddy: it implies that the design was inadequate and unsafe.

    Meanwhile, I passed through the Twin Towns yesterday and traffic from the South was backed up almost as far as TSA Tyres. Crazy!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    DCC aren't the best at safe road design - the junction that had to be redesigned on the N15 bit of the Donegal BP attests to this - but ABP doing an outright rejection over this isn't really precedented!

    I've been caught queuing in to Stranorlar to turn right from the N13 (towards Ballybofey) for thirty minutes before and theres usually mental queues on the N13 to turn right on to the N13 at the junction where the R road to Raphoe has priority.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    The decision basically says that EVERY junction is crap and that Donegal Council had not done enough work prior to the application and instead hoped to get approval to fix their myriad mistakes during the detailed design process that would occur AFTER ABP gave a go ahead.

    It must further be noted that An Bord Pleanála were disgracefully and discourteously slow with their decision . They have sat on this like a pack of constipated hens for nearly two years.

    Jolly badly done to everybody :( , Donegal and An Bord , and my commisserations to those who periodically suffer from this balance of incompetence.

    We now face a three year period where the incompetents dick about with a second decision , that simply ain't good enough.

    Maybe they should get the Roscommon Design Office crew on the case as they have NOTHING TO DO right now . Tell them to **** off out of Moycullen where they are currently doing nothing useful :(


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    MYOB wrote: »
    DCC aren't the best at safe road design - the junction that had to be redesigned on the N15 bit of the Donegal BP attests to this - but ABP doing an outright rejection over this isn't really precedented!

    I've been caught queuing in to Stranorlar to turn right from the N13 (towards Ballybofey) for thirty minutes before and theres usually mental queues on the N13 to turn right on to the N13 at the junction where the R road to Raphoe has priority.

    Speaking of safety I wonder what the European Commission will conclude about DCC's road maintenance.
    http://oceanfm.ie/news/2009/11/02/eu-commision-to-hear-road-incident-evidence/


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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The decision basically says that EVERY junction is crap and that Donegal Council had not done enough work prior to the application and instead hoped to get approval to fix their myriad mistakes during the detailed design process that would occur AFTER ABP gave a go ahead.

    Agreed. It's an extraordinary slap on the wrist from one public body to another - basically ABP accusing DCC of incompetence.
    MYOB wrote: »
    I've been caught queuing in to Stranorlar to turn right from the N13 (towards Ballybofey) for thirty minutes before and theres usually mental queues on the N13 to turn right on to the N13 at the junction where the R road to Raphoe has priority.

    Have queued there myself on a few occasions. A very simple re-prioritising of the roads would fix this (Giving an N road priority over an R road - which one would intuitively expect should be the case anyhow). However, if they are as incompetent as ABP suggests they are, then don't expect this to happen.

    An example of how it can be done is in Ballinasloe. Traffic from the town used to have priority over traffic on the "bypass". They re-prioritised it and now bypass traffic flows freely. It actually costs feck-all money to do.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    The decision basically says that EVERY junction is crap and that Donegal Council had not done enough work prior to the application and instead hoped to get approval to fix their myriad mistakes during the detailed design process that would occur AFTER ABP gave a go ahead.

    Maybe they should get the Roscommon Design Office crew on the case as they have NOTHING TO DO right now . Tell them to **** off out of Moycullen where they are currently doing nothing useful :(

    Why is everybody taking a pop at Donegal County Council, ''perhaps'' the Scheme was designed by a private consultant(s) (see report). Although it also must be pointed out that the Scheme would have had to go through the NRAs steering committee and inspectorate (or at least one would hope) Furthermore, the ABP inspector himself recommended it. Plus, a Road Safety Auditor would have independently checked the design specifically for safety. So maybe ABP have lost the plot or maybe not I haven't seen the junctions.

    Absolute and utter disgrace ABP took this length of time to come to a decision. They need their asses kicked around the place.

    As for the Roscommon Design Office mentioned above, Im sure the decision to let them muck about with the Moycullen Bypass was made after a highly competitive tendering process including the private sector found them to be the most economically advantgeous bidder!!


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    I think the jibe about the Moycullen Bypass is more to do with the fact that the shaggin' bypass was designed in the NINETEEN SEVENTIES and hasn't been built yet! And less to do with Roscommon doing it...


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    As for the Roscommon Design Office mentioned above, Im sure the decision to let them ''redesign'' with the Moycullen Bypass was made after a highly competitive tendering process including the private sector found them to be the most economically advantgeous bidder!!

    No tendering involved.

    http://www.galwaynews.ie/7057-nra-funds-%E2%82%AC300000-review-road-nowhere
    THE cash-strapped National Roads Authority has allocated €300,000 so a team of staff can travel from Roscommon to Moycullen every day to review the village’s need for a by-pass – despite the fact that there is no money to finance such a project in the first place.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 20 09bored.ie


    Obviously there was no tender!:rolleyes:

    I think the bit about them travelling from Roscommon to Moycullen everyday is absolute BS just some dumbass journalist in the newspaper not understanding what they were writing about which is very common when it comes to roads projects


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    09bored.ie wrote: »
    Why is everybody taking a pop at Donegal County Council, ''perhaps'' the Scheme was designed by a private consultant(s) (see report). Although it also must be pointed out that the Scheme would have had to go through the NRAs steering committee and inspectorate (or at least one would hope) Furthermore, the ABP inspector himself recommended it. Plus, a Road Safety Auditor would have independently checked the design specifically for safety. So maybe ABP have lost the plot or maybe not I haven't seen the junctions.

    Absolute and utter disgrace ABP took this length of time to come to a decision. They need their asses kicked around the place.

    As for the Roscommon Design Office mentioned above, Im sure the decision to let them muck about with the Moycullen Bypass was made after a highly competitive tendering process including the private sector found them to be the most economically advantgeous bidder!!

    The application was in the name of Donegal County Council so they have to take responsibility for its contents, irrespective of who drew it up.

    The Inspector OK'd the application IF additional works were carried out: obviously the Board felt that this was the equivalent of a new application.

    Any public body which gives a R road priority over a N road (eg the N13 junction with the Raphoe road) deserves to be criticised.

    Then there is the Sinead McDaid case " a letter from Minister for Justice Dermot Ahern to An Taoiseach, dated September 7, 2009. In the letter, Ahern quoted Superintendent Padraig Kennedy, who was in charge of the second investigation, as concluding that "grave acts of omission were committed by Donegal County Council on 12 June, 2001 in the manner in which they conducted their road resurfacing operation on the Malin to Culdaff road and his opinion, disclosed a breach of Section 13 Non-Fatal Offences Against the Person Act 1997 (Reckless Endangerment)."


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Essexboy wrote: »
    Any public body which gives a R road priority over a N road (eg the N13 junction with the Raphoe road) deserves to be criticised.

    This isn't rare. The N5 gives way to Ballaghdreen Main Street (R-something); the N52 loses priority at a crossroads to an R road in Meath; N63 loses priority to an R road somewhere around Abbeyknockmoy, etc, etc.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 778 ✭✭✭Essexboy


    MYOB wrote: »
    This isn't rare. The N5 gives way to Ballaghdreen Main Street (R-something); the N52 loses priority at a crossroads to an R road in Meath; N63 loses priority to an R road somewhere around Abbeyknockmoy, etc, etc.

    Ditto at Tubbercurry where traffic on the N17 bypass gives way to traffic from the town centre.
    But my original point still stands: a N road should always have priority. I guess local politics comes before planning.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,652 ✭✭✭serfboard


    Essexboy wrote: »
    Ditto at Tubbercurry where traffic on the N17 bypass gives way to traffic from the town centre.
    But my original point still stands: a N road should always have priority. I guess local politics comes before planning.

    Agree 100%. It's not whether N roads do give way - it's whether they should. And they shouldn't.

    The N63, N17 (two places - Tubercurry and Charlestown now that the N5 doesn't go through it anymore), N5 at Ballaghadereen and the N13 junction (which started this discussion) could, and should, be re-prioritised.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    It is only about 100m long in Charlestown and you would need traffic lights and probably anti tractor barriers with EMP backup to reducate the locals out of 1000 years of driving .

    Not worth it for 100m of uncongested road northbound and 30m southbound , just call it the N17 without changing anything , too dangerous and pointless

    As for Tobercurry I wait to see where the slow traffic heads and I simply go the other way. If a clear run I go up the main street like I always did :D


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    This scheme has been recently quoted for TEN-T priority upgrades by Donegal Co. Council.

    All discussion in this thread please.


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Has it been 6 years since it was refused planning permission?

    Why was it refused does anyone know? So we can avoid the same happening again when it is redesigned.


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 66,441 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Has it been 6 years since it was refused planning permission?

    Why was it refused does anyone know? So we can avoid the same happening again when it is redesigned.

    Poor junction design primarily.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,216 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Redsoxfan wrote: »

    Not exactly....that scheme doesn't bypass Ballybofey.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Open to correction here

    This scheme bypasses the twin towns on the N15 and continues onto the N13 at the junction with the R236 to Raphoe.

    The scheme quoted above continues the N13 to Derry.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,216 ✭✭✭Redsoxfan


    Does it even exist on TII?

    This doesn't sound like it either, it just references the 'Ballybofey Bypass'

    http://www.tii.ie/projects/road-schemes/#51


  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    marno21 wrote: »
    Open to correction here

    This scheme bypasses the twin towns on the N15 and continues onto the N13 at the junction with the R236 to Raphoe.

    The scheme quoted above continues the N13 to Derry.
    You're correct.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Proper names please! The "Letterkenny Link" could be a lot of things - an N56, N13 or N15 scheme.
    I presume the road to Lifford he mentioned is the N14 Letterkenny-Lifford scheme.


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    spacetweek wrote: »
    Proper names please! The "Letterkenny Link" could be a lot of things - an N56, N13 or N15 scheme.
    I presume the road to Lifford he mentioned is the N14 Letterkenny-Lifford scheme.

    The Letterkenny link is the N56 scheme, which also seems to include an upgrade of the low quality DC between Letterkenny and Manorcunningham


    I posted in that schemes thread with the link too, which my phone won't let me post. (EDIT: http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057622343)


  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21




  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    A restart?
    This one was always badly needed.


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  • Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,289 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    spacetweek wrote: »
    A restart?
    This one was always badly needed.
    Planning will proceed on this, along with the N13 DC upgrade, N56 relief road, and N14 Letterkenny-Lifford, as part of a TII plan to upgrade roads in Donegal. Not on the capital plan but will likely be built shortly after.


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