Hypothetical Question

NothingMan

Obni wrote: »

I married an mIcc and my wife wanted the kids baptised etc..., but accepted the fact that while I was happy for them to participate in the same rites of passage as their class-mates, I would
(1) never lie to the kids if asked a direct question
(2) never participate in religion except for first communions etc...

The result?
My two sons spend less time per year thinking about religion than most contributors to this forum spend each day. It is probably a quicker route to the promised-land of post-theism, than the route I've taken by being actively atheist.

But I think one of the main arguments against getting a child baptised is that you are basically signing them up to a society that they have no understanding of, and one which you yourself disagree with.

I don't think you are doing the children any harm in raising them this way, and obviously it may be slightly easier not having to explain why they are not getting communion etc... But as long as people are signing their kids up to the church then the longer the church will hold it's position of authority in our state and the world. An Authority which you do not agree with.

Dades

Obni wrote: »

I married an mIcc and my wife wanted the kids baptised etc..., but accepted the fact that while I was happy for them to participate in the same rites of passage as their class-mates, I would
(1) never lie to the kids if asked a direct question
(2) never participate in religion except for first communions etc...

Your experience pretty much mirrors mine. Except for I won't be happy to let them participate rites of passage and wait impatiently for the day when they ask me about what they learned today in RE.

But as long as people are signing their kids up to the church then the longer the church will hold it's position of authority in our state and the world. An Authority which you do not agree with.

You've missed the key point of this thread which is how two people cope with different beliefs. There are generally two parents involved. In Obni (and my) case our other halves' wishes were honoured. Until you've kids with someone of the 'mIcc' persuasion it's naive to think that following through on your personal principles (i.e. no baptism) is going to result in anything but conflict.

Flamed Diving

Wicknight wrote: »

Yeah, seconded, and to Robin's post, I find it hard to imagine me getting married to a very religious person. I see it more likely that she wants to have a cultural wedding (ie in a church) and she wants to raise the kids "like everyone else", rather than me ever finding myself in a situation of arguing about this stuff with a fundamentalist*.



















*unless she has great tits :pac:

I met an American girl who was a fundamentalist Christian. In addition to her beautiful face, cracking body and long legs; she had an enormous rack.



I would have converted for her.







(PS: She was really clever and funny, too.)

Goduznt Xzst

Flamed Diving wrote: »

I met an American girl who was a fundamentalist Christian... She was really clever

Malari

No way to both.

They comprise 2 of my 3 deal-breakers in a relationship - "finding" god and wanting children.

Obni

NothingMan wrote: »

But as long as people are signing their kids up to the church then the longer the church will hold it's position of authority in our state and the world. An Authority which you do not agree with.

It seems to me that most people in western Europe are in practical terms humanist, in that they have a common set of principles and moral values that may have been inspired in part by the christian religion, but have become enshrined in our secular legislation. It is against that shared set of values that most people measure the moral content of actions, not the actual contents of the bible. Of the family, friends and acquaintances of mine, who retain a belief in an organised religion, most do not look for God's guiding hand in every event in their life, nor do they consider God's wishes when making decisions in their lives. They function for 99% of their lives without reference to God.

I on the other hand would have the atheistic nature of my universe at the forefront of my thoughts, in an uncomfortable parallel to a deeply religious person and their god.

For my kids the journey from their current state to say, secular humanism, is a very short step; and I would think a healthy one. I don't claim for a moment that that was my longterm plan when I went along with my wife's wishes. She cared more about having them baptised than I did about not having them baptised, full stop. The rest of the story is human nature plus religion's reaching a state of natural obsolescence in western Europe. It is just the fortunate, and for me enlightening, outcome.

The excision of god from my kids psyches would leave no visible scar, unlike so many of my own generation who prowl these forums poking their wounds with a dirty stick.

doctoremma

Zillah wrote: »

Wait, what? What effect would that have on anything? Obviously it is something you can feel strongly about but I can't fathom how it could be a deal breaker. It couldn't possibly affect their day to day lives the way religion would.

Their view on capital punishment would, in my view (which is by no means the only one ), be reflective of a set of personality traits that I could never find attractive. I simply could not be with someone who thought it was OK. For me, it's a very fundamental position and non-negotiable.

But I'm not stubborn

Herbal Deity

Jako8 wrote: »

Say you were going out with a guy/gal and you saw a future between the two of you but they were *insert religion here*

Wouldn't happen.

Antbert

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Wouldn't happen.

I too think this is highly probable.

eblistic

Herbal Deity wrote: »

Wouldn't happen.

Isn't that a bit impractical in this country? It rules out all the wonderful people who say they're *insert religion here* but in reality it doesn't play any real part in their lives.

I think the original question is a reality for many non-believers in Ireland rather than hypothetical. In my own case it was "Yes no problem" for marriage in a church and "No way" for indoctrination of kids.

Herbal Deity

*shrug

Personally, speaking as someone who's 20 years old, I don't come across a huge amount people my age who'd describe themselves as catholic or any religion really. Some form of deism, agnosticism or atheism would be the most common IME.

browncow

I am an athiest and my husband a tag along catholic... when we met I told him right off that under no circumstances would I ever get married in a church. We were quite happy to live in sin. We did however get married in the registry office, and still had the huge white wedding that all girls dream of with 60 guests at the registry office. And my dad walked me down the aisle!!! After a lot of discussion regarding how to bring up children we decided to let them make up their own minds when they decide for themselves what they want.We now have 2 children who were not baptised. As much as it kills me I had to give in when it came to school as we have no non/multi denominational school in the area. I am so disgusted that my son is comin home rhyming of prayers cos thats all they are to him is just rhymes, he also has "Chriost Liom" on his uniform which means "Christ in me"....no he is not!! We also will have the huge task of explaining why they are not making communion, because to a 7 yr old it is gonna seem he is not bein allowed wheras in the other school it wouldn't have come up. At least at confirmation age they will have started to form their own opinions. All we can do is try to explain our views and the views of the other children in his class and hope he does not feel alienated but there are also muslim and buddist children in his class who are probably having the same problems.