Hypothetical Question

Jako8

Don't worry this isn't one of those "If Jesus was to... would you believe in him then?" threads.

Say you were going out with a guy/gal and you saw a future between the two of you but they were *insert religion here* and they wanted to have a traditional marriage ceremony(whatever traditional ceremony their religion has) would you agree?

Also would you agree to let them raise your kids religiously?

ShooterSF

No and No. though that might have more to do with my intention not to get married or have kids.

Zombrex

Jako8 wrote: »

Say you were going out with a guy/gal and you saw a future between the two of you but they were *insert religion here* and they wanted to have a traditional marriage ceremony(whatever traditional ceremony their religion has) would you agree?

Also would you agree to let them raise your kids religiously?

Yes to the marriage, so long as she knew I wasn't going to lie or pretend to be a member of her religion (I get married in a church for her, makes no shakes to me, again so long as it is clear I'm not pretending)

No to raising the kids religiously.

robindch

This question comes up so often that it looks like there's a good case for stickying it.

Can't speak for anybody else, but if my missus-to-be declared her opinions about her religion to be more important to her than the relationship (which many religious people appear to believe), then she'd be out the door faster than a Jehovah's Witness on wet ice.

If she's moderate in her beliefs, though, then I can't imagine much trouble. Or at least, too much anyway.

And as for the kids, well, I think they should be kept free of religion until they're old enough to make up their own minds.

Zillah

Q1 - Yes, no problem at all.
Q2 - No, absolutely not, total deal breaker.

I would not, however, have a successful relationship with a person for whom any of this was a big issue.

Zombrex

Zillah wrote: »

I would not, however, have a successful relationship with a person for whom any of this was a big issue.

Yeah, seconded, and to Robin's post, I find it hard to imagine me getting married to a very religious person. I see it more likely that she wants to have a cultural wedding (ie in a church) and she wants to raise the kids "like everyone else", rather than me ever finding myself in a situation of arguing about this stuff with a fundamentalist*.



















*unless she has great tits :pac:

Wacker

I've said before that, if I am ever to get married, that I'll let the missus decide upon everything on the big day, so long as the first dance is to Led Zeppelin's Boogie With Stu. Once I have that, everything else is fine and dandy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ditBIHem-E

Over my dead body will she indoctrinate my kids with nonsense though.

Galvasean

Q1: Sure why not. I can keep my mouth shut for a day.
Q2: Definately not. The same way I would not allow her to raise the children as Man United fans.

Ickle Magoo

robindch wrote: »

This question comes up so often that it looks like there's a good case for stickying it.

Can't speak for anybody else, but if my missus-to-be declared her opinions about her religion to be more important to her than the relationship (which many religious people appear to believe), then she'd be out the door faster than a Jehovah's Witness on wet ice.

If she's moderate in her beliefs, though, then I can't imagine much trouble. Or at least, too much anyway.

And as for the kids, well, I think they should be kept free of religion until they're old enough to make up their own minds.

Pretty much what I was about to say.

Though in all honesty, I've never had a relationship with someone who was particularly religious get anywhere near that point - as soon as there is conflict caused by theism, I just get completely turned off.

Sea Sharp

Yes and no.

The church, whether you like 'em or not, do good weddings and funerals.
Raising a child in a religion? Nope.

aftermn

Any of you people actually have children?

I have tried to raise mine along traditional lines. They tend to have their own ideas though and no amount of theism on my part appears to have been implanted.

I still reckon that 'God' is as good an explanation as anything science has come up with, but I have stopped expecting them to follow my lead.

Ickle Magoo

aftermn wrote: »

Any of you people actually have children?

Two...

Zillah

aftermn wrote: »

I still reckon that 'God' is as good an explanation as anything science has come up with

Ahahaha try reading a book.

Preferably not thousands of years out of date.

aftermn

Any particular book?

As to the 'out of date' comment, does it relate to todays beliefs, yesterday's or tomorrow's? Because it appears that all eventually fall to the passage of time. Scientific explanations included.

Ickle Magoo

Eh, scientific advancements are not quite the same thing as teaching your kids a book written thousands of years ago is an accurate account of events. I will still teach my kids Darwin over Genesis, anyway.

Zillah

A Brief History Of Time would make a nice start. Then perhaps a basic primer on the scientific method, and then one on philosophy which includes occams razor and the nature of assumption.

Soul Cake Duck

1. I don't think I could actually do the church thing…but I would feel very guilty if he & his/my parents who are catholic wanted the big wedding etc. Again I think, well I’d hope, to find someone with similar beliefs and morals as me anyway to avoid this otherwise we would probably have to compromise

2. As for the children...100% N.O...when they are old enough they can choose to follow said religion if they so wish.

aftermn

Supercroc,

Your children will make their own choice anyway, don't worry about that.

As for the 'Brief History of Time', it is the perspective of a particular individual, at a particular moment in time. It was probably very true for him at that time. Will anyone agree with it in 100 years, a thousand years?

As for Darwin V the Book of Genesis, well neither is the whole truth, is it.

Ickle Magoo

One has a hell of a lot less "truths" than the other tho, eh? One of them at least has a toe-hold in reality. :rolleyes:

aftermn

It sometimes appears so.

But then science once told us that bleeding was a sure cure for the plague.

That belief didn't last long, thankfully.

Zillah

aftermn wrote: »

It was probably very true for him at that time.

What sort of magic stretchy world do you live in? It has to be very confusing, knowing that at any moment the plane you're in could drop out of the sky when reality shifts again.

aftermn wrote: »

It sometimes appears so.

But then science once told us that bleeding was a sure cure for the plague.

That belief didn't last long, thankfully.

Luckily we now know that God did it. Oh wait, or was it science that worked out what the plague was? Huh, funny that.

aftermn

Is this an acceptance that science is sometimes wrong?

Zillah

Science builds the best models it can based on the evidence available. As new evidence appears we modify our models to explain it. No one ever claimed science was 100% about anything, but it tries to be, and does it far far better than anything else, such as inventing magical beings to explain things.

Seriously, you have a lot of reading to do, you're very ignorant.

kryogen

Here is something close to the topic

I am about to have my first child, the missus knows my beliefs, or lack there of, and that is not an issue between us, in fact to answer the OP directly, it makes no difference to me where we get married (if we do) if she wants the traditional marriage and all that it really doesnt matter to me, i dont need to be militant in my beliefs for one day!

so heres my thing, i am getting major pressure from all sides to have my baby baptised, just as i was, my mother and all that side of my family are pretty indoctrinated in catholisism, my father isnt but his mother is!

her mam is pushing hard for a baptism also but her dad isnt too pushed

i dont want to cause a huge family rift here, and my partner is leaning toward a baptism anyway, wether its also to keep the peace or simply because she believes in baptism im not entirely certain

any advice on how to proceed?

i genuinely dont want the child to be baptised because it doesnt match my beliefs, should i really dig my heels in here or should i let it slide and keep the family happy and then just let my child make up its own mind?

liamw

aftermn wrote: »

I still reckon that 'God' is as good an explanation as anything science has come up with, but I have stopped expecting them to follow my lead.

Can you give an example please of something where god is 'as good an explanation' as science?

As far as I was aware, god explains precisely nothing. I'm assuming the Flying Spagetti Monster can explain things as well as science can too then?

Ickle Magoo

aftermn wrote: »

Is this an acceptance that science is sometimes wrong?

Science bases it's knowledge on the physical evidence around us, as we are discovering more evidence and improving the ways in which we are able to observe the physical world all the time, the theories & hypothesis that science draws also change as the aim of science is to get to the absolute indisputable facts. If you think that is an equal explanation as something written 70yrs after the event & completely devoid of evidence then I've just been rendered speechless, tbh. :eek:

Science used to think that bleeding was a sure cure for the plague because it had worked out that pathogens were being carried around the body in the blood stream, it didn't have the whole picture but it was a lot more accurate & had much more logical bases than declaring an omnipotent being did it. I don't think there is a person alive today that still believes bleeding would cure a disease - pity we can't say the same about the age of the earth & the existence of dinosaurs. :pac:

ShooterSF

kryogen wrote: »

Here is something close to the topic

I am about to have my first child, the missus knows my beliefs, or lack there of, and that is not an issue between us, in fact to answer the OP directly, it makes no difference to me where we get married (if we do) if she wants the traditional marriage and all that it really doesnt matter to me, i dont need to be militant in my beliefs for one day!

so heres my thing, i am getting major pressure from all sides to have my baby baptised, just as i was, my mother and all that side of my family are pretty indoctrinated in catholisism, my father isnt but his mother is!

her mam is pushing hard for a baptism also but her dad isnt too pushed

i dont want to cause a huge family rift here, and my partner is leaning toward a baptism anyway, wether its also to keep the peace or simply because she believes in baptism im not entirely certain

any advice on how to proceed?

i genuinely dont want the child to be baptised because it doesnt match my beliefs, should i really dig my heels in here or should i let it slide and keep the family happy and then just let my child make up its own mind?

Suggest that you consider religion a big deal (:D) and would prefer your child is not a member of any particular one until they are of age to decide themselves (18) at which point you will accept whatever the child decides?

ShooterSF

aftermn wrote: »

It sometimes appears so.

But then science once told us that bleeding was a sure cure for the plague.

That belief didn't last long, thankfully.

If you constantly turn to two people for advice and one when he is wrong and is shown how, accepts his mistake and reforms his opinion. The other, when told he was wrong, puts his fingers in his ears and shouts "LA LA LA LA" as loud as possible. Which one's advice (long term) do you trust?

Also if you feel god is an explanation for things are you choosing a god outside of any definition or one of the major religion's one?

Dr Pepper

Zillah wrote: »

Seriously, you have a lot of reading to do, you're very ignorant.

I'm not a moderator but I find this post to be a bit overly aggressive/offensive towards a fairly reasonable, moderate poster.

Goduznt Xzst

In reply to the OP's questions: Yes and No

If the missus was religious I would still raise the child in a free thinking environment, I'd have no issues with my OH explaining her position to our child, but the child would not be required to adhere to or engage in any of the doctrines of that Religion.

aftermn wrote: »

Is this an acceptance that science is sometimes wrong?

Yes. Areas of Science have been, probably are and will be wrong. I fear the mistake you have made (which is understandable amongst some religious) is that you think the relationship between Religion and Science is inversely proportional, this is simply not the case. Your Religion and Science are separate entities. When Science is wrong it does not prove your Religion to be more right.

I also fear, from your previous statements, that your argument for remaining Religious is based on Pascals Wager (please have a read of that link). In that, given that your Religion and Science both can be shown to be wrong throughout history, it is better to go with the option that offers you the most rewards, ergo: immortality.

This reasoning is flawed as:
A) The aim of all Sciences is not to replace or disprove Religious beliefs
That the particular Religion and God that you follow are the only ones conceivably true

Zillah wrote: »

you're very ignorant.

Ah... you've been reading up on Hitchens approach to winning hearts and minds

Dades

Dr Pepper wrote: »

I'm not a moderator but I find this post to be a bit overly aggressive/offensive towards a fairly reasonable, moderate poster.

As do I and Zillah has been warned so lets keep things moving.