Date-rape drink spiking 'an urban legend'

Cadiz

AARRRGH wrote: »

Yes, you're confused.

Swingeing, baseless, statement followed by childish riposte. Sad.

AARRRGH

This might sound like a mad question, but... rapists go to drug dealers to buy rape drugs?!

I know drug dealers aren't exactly pillars of the community, but it seems weird that they could keep a straight face while helping someone buy their rape tools, and it seems extra weird that a rapist would be so open about their raping.

wudangclan

AARRRGH wrote: »

This might sound like a mad question, but... rapists go to drug dealers to buy rape drugs?!

I know drug dealers aren't exactly pillars of the community, but it seems weird that they could keep a straight face while helping someone buy their rape tools, and it seems extra weird that a rapist would be so open about their raping.

i know ghb is sold recreationally in the city.
i also understand it's relatively simple to make so any would-be rapist should be able to keep their activities clandestine should he/she desire.

Pace2008

eviltwin wrote: »

Why oh why can't they say SOME people do

If they have no confirmed cases of drug-related rapes, why should they say that some of their rape cases could be drug related?

AARRRGH wrote: »

This might sound like a mad question, but... rapists go to drug dealers to buy rape drugs?!

I know drug dealers aren't exactly pillars of the community, but it seems weird that they could keep a straight face while helping someone buy their rape tools, and it seems extra weird that a rapist would be so open about their raping.

In fairness, dealers don't tend to ask you what purpose you're buying their wares for.

AARRRGH

Cadiz wrote: »

Swingeing, baseless, statement followed by childish riposte. Sad.

Go back and re-read my original post, except this time don't try so hard to find meaning which isn't there.

Only a ****ing moron could think I was trying to claim rape only happens to women. My post didn't touch anything close to that topic.

And if you really think no woman has ever woken up with a blank memory thinking she has been drugged and raped when in reality she simply drank too much and can't remember what she did or didn't agree to, you are completely naive.

You really should stop posting as you obviously can't be rational about this topic.

Cadiz

AARRRGH wrote: »

This might sound like a mad question, but... rapists go to drug dealers to buy rape drugs?!

I know drug dealers aren't exactly pillars of the community, but it seems weird that they could keep a straight face while helping someone buy their rape tools, and it seems extra weird that a rapist would be so open about their raping.

Yeah drug dealers are notorious for being really picky and selective about their punters. 'Many' a time you hear of one saying 'now you're not a rapist, now are you? I couldn't possibly sell you that GBH if you are'..

AARRRGH

Cadiz wrote: »

Yeah drug dealers are notorious for being really picky and selective about their punters. 'Many' a time you hear of one saying 'now you're not a rapist, now are you? I couldn't possibly sell you that GBH if you are'..

Maybe I'm being naive, but I would have thought rapists were secretive about what they did. I just can't picture a rapist going to a drug dealer to buy his rape drugs...

The evidence (as stated in the OP's article) does suggest I may not be naive. (As in, rapists aren't spiking people's drinks with drugs they bought from a drug dealer.)

Kipperhell

Pace2008 wrote: »

Some people do it for the craic. Here's a post I made in a similar thread some months back about how I sort-of accidentally ended up spiking someone:

So it wasn't some random person randomly drug another as I said. You have idiot friends and I am not surprised it happen from such people.

Random drugging are so unbelievable and facts point to something more logical. I really don't believe people who claim they know and have have drug results.

Cadiz

AARRRGH wrote: »

Go back and re-read my original post, except this time don't try so hard to find meaning which isn't there.

Only a ****ing moron could think I was trying to claim rape only happens to women. My post didn't touch anything close to that topic.

And if you really think no woman has ever woken up with a blank memory thinking she has been drugged and raped when in reality she simply drank too much and can't remember what she did or didn't agree to, you are completely naive.

You really should stop posting as you obviously can't be rational about this topic.

You referred specifically to women (only) in your post. You didn't mention fellas. So my observation was a rational questioning of that.

I didn't suggest no woman (or man come to that) has ever made a bogus rape claim (I've said quite the opposite in several posts here actually), I queried your assured assertion that 'many' women have.

Not agreeing with you and your sweeping statements doesn't make for irrationality. The opposite actually! :rolleyes:

wudangclan

AARRRGH wrote: »

Maybe I'm being naive, but I would have thought rapists were secretive about what they did. I just can't picture a rapist going to a drug dealer to buy his rape drugs...

The evidence (as stated in the OP's article) does suggest I may not be naive. (As in, rapists aren't spiking people's drinks with drugs they bought from a drug dealer.)

presumably ,if you're going to buy ghb and use it for the purpose of rape ,you'll let on you're gonna use it recreationally ,no?.

AARRRGH

Cadiz wrote: »

You referred specifically to women (only) in your post. You didn't mention fellas. So my observation was a rational questioning of that.

I didn't suggest no woman (or man come to that) has ever made a bogus rape claim (I've said quite the opposite in several posts here actually), I queried your assured assertion that 'many' women have.

Not agreeing with you and your sweeping statements doesn't make for irrationality. The opposite actually! :rolleyes:

No, you are trying to find meaning which isn't there. Obviously you're quite a pedantic person. Stop trying to project your issues onto my post. I OBVIOUSLY know both men and women can be raped.

I shouldn't have to defend myself on this.

Ann22

A few years ago my cousin was in a club, she'd had a few drinks, not enough to get bladdered on. All of a sudden she felt really unwell, weak and dizzy. A man was hovvering nearby, he approached her and guided her out the door where there was a dark alley where the club exit is. He took her shoes off her and was repeating 'come with me, my wife, my wife will look after you'. Luckily some of her friends came along, asked if she knew the man, at this point he ran off. She spent the night in hospital and her bloods came back showing evidence of some kind of drug, think it was Rohypnol but I'm not sure.
(I was almost finished typing this and popped up to the bathroom, when I came back, my oh had replaced the word 'Rohypnol' with 'sperm'. Feck sake, lucky I spotted it:rolleyes::o)

Cadiz

AARRRGH wrote: »

I shouldn't have to defend myself on this.

Nor can you, as far as I can see

AARRRGH

Ann22 wrote: »

A few years ago my cousin was in a club, she'd had a few drinks, not enough to get bladdered on. All of a sudden she felt really unwell, weak and dizzy. A man was hovvering nearby, he approached her and guided her out the door where there was a dark alley where the club exit is. He took her shoes off her and was repeating 'come with me, my wife, my wife will look after you'. Luckily some of her friends came along, asked if she knew the man, at this point he ran off. She spent the night in hospital and her bloods came back showing evidence of some kind of drug, think it was Rohypnol but I'm not sure.

Not trying to be difficult, but how did your friend's experience get missed by the person gathering the statistics?

I find it hard to believe that so many people seem to be getting their drinks spiked -- and have had hospitals confirm it -- yet hospitals continue to claim it never happens.

I'm not saying you're a liar, I just can't get my head around the lack of evidence for such an apparently common problem.

TheZohanS

Ann22 wrote: »

(I was almost finished typing this and popped up to the bathroom, when I came back, my oh had replaced the word 'Rohypnol' with 'sperm'. Feck sake, lucky I spotted it:rolleyes::o)

Ha ha!



Ok folks lets tone it down a bit on the thread, there's no need for bickering. I've already made my commission this week for bannings.

Pace2008

Kipperhell wrote: »

So it wasn't some random person randomly drug another as I said. You have idiot friends and I am not surprised it happen from such people.

Random drugging are so unbelievable and facts point to something more logical. I really don't believe people who claim they know and have have drug results.

My mates aren't idiots, we have our boundaries of acceptability and the way I see it it was just a bit of fun between friends.

I agree with you that random druggings are implausible for the most part.

Ann22

AARRRGH wrote: »

Not trying to be difficult, but how did your friend's experience get missed by person gathering the statistics?

I find it hard to believe that so many people seems to be getting their drinks spiked -- and have had hospitals confirm it -- yet hospitals continue to claim it never happens.

I'm not saying you're a liar, I just can't get my head around the lack of evidence for such an apparently common problem.

This was a few years ago, time's flying so I couldn't say how long for sure. Why do you ask Aargh? Have there been no proven reports at all in the country? I suppose there is a chance she made it up to not let her mam think she was ossified but the story seemed so detailed. I won't go into details describing the man but he sounded really dubious.I don't know if it was registered anywhere. Maybe it only happens in the whole country once or twice a year compared to the hundreds of folks imagining they were drugged.

AARRRGH

Ann22 wrote: »

This was a few years ago, time's flying so I couldn't say how long for sure. Why do you ask Aargh? Have there been no proven reports at all in the country? I suppose there is a chance she made it up to not let her mam think she was ossified but the story seemed so detailed. I won't go into details describing the man but he sounded really dubious.I don't know if it was registered anywhere. Maybe it only happens in the whole country once or twice a year compared to the hundreds of folks imagining they were drugged.

Yeah the hospitals are saying there is no evidence it happens. It's pretty much always too much alcohol, or alcohol mixed with some sort of prescription drug which the victim took voluntarily.

So I would think in your friends case it's likely she just reacted badly to alcohol that day. I know I have days where I can drink two bottles of wine and be fairly sober, and other days where I'm locked after a glass of wine.

Glad your friend was ok though!

caseyann

It happens a hell of alot,more than even reported because women and men are afraid or embarrassed to come forward.
Its a disgusting.Be it whether the spike you for robbing you(which it also happens) or rapping you:mad:
It actually happens to men to.So anyone who says on occasion or urban myth is fueling protection and doubting the victims.And you to are apart of it because people with attitudes as such are reason alot don't come forward.

titan18

AARRRGH wrote: »

No, you are trying to find meaning which isn't there. Obviously you're quite a pedantic person. Stop trying to project your issues onto my post. I OBVIOUSLY know both men and women can be raped.

I shouldn't have to defend myself on this.

Afaik,only women can be raped under Irish law.It's sexual assault if its a man.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1990/en/act/pub/0032/sec0004.html#zza32y1990s4

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/1981/en/act/pub/0010/sec0002.html#zza10y1981s2

AARRRGH

caseyann wrote: »

It happens a hell of alot,more than even reported because women and men are afraid or embarrassed to come forward.
Its a disgusting.Be it whether the spike you for robbing you(which it also happens) or rapping you:mad:
It actually happens to men to.So anyone who says on occasion or urban myth is fueling protection and doubting the victims.And you to are apart of it because people with attitudes as such are reason alot don't come forward.

The statistics are based on the many hundreds/thousands of victims who came forward, claiming their drinks were spiked.

It would be quite amazing if the missing evidence was somehow restricted to the victims who didn't come forward...

By the way, saying we are "part of the problem" because we require evidence is frankly, hysterical.

Cadiz

(forgot to quote, I'm referring to the legal definition post by titan)

Is that relevant here? It amounts to the same thing in reality, surely, no matter what it's termed as under the law.

AARRRGH

Cadiz wrote: »

(forgot to quote, I'm referring to the legal definition post by titan)

Is that relevant here? It amounts to the same thing in reality, surely, no matter what it's termed as under the law.

Yeah, I think in court men would be considered the same as women.

For example, our prostitution laws are based purely on sexual intercourse, however I would imagine in court they would cover oral sex, bukkake, etc.

Gummy Panda

AARRRGH wrote: »

Yeah the hospitals are saying there is no evidence it happens. It's pretty much always too much alcohol, or alcohol mixed with some sort of prescription drug which the victim took voluntarily.

Link to source?

I can't seem to find it.

CCCP^

It's not as common as people might think, I mean who has access to those type of drugs? Usually pharmacists and chemists, but they have to account for all their stock, so I don't know how people are supposed to get their hands on that stuff, it's not like your local dealer carries it. BUT it does happen.

AARRRGH

Gummy Panda wrote: »

Link to source?

I can't seem to find it.

I'll have a look later, but it was a report by the Rape Crisis Centre a while back. The person interview was the rape specialist (or whatever) in the hospital which deals with this sort of thing.

caseyann

AARRRGH wrote: »

The statistics are based on the many hundreds/thousands of victims who came forward, claiming their drinks were spiked.

It would be quite amazing if the missing evidence was somehow restricted to the victims who didn't come forward...

By the way, saying we are "part of the problem" because we require evidence is frankly, hysterical.

No no the ones who imply it is urban myth and only happens on occasion is a part of the problem.That is going to make the genuine ones even less likely and afraid of coming forward.One of my friends was spiked luckily i was there and never leave a friends side or god knows what would have happened to her.
And also the beer mats placed in bars and clubs to check their drinks.
Did you not see that documentary?? So if so much of an Urban myth why would they do that?

caseyann

CCCP^ wrote: »

It's not as common as people might think, I mean who has access to those type of drugs? Usually pharmacists and chemists, but they have to account for all their stock, so I don't know how people are supposed to get their hands on that stuff, it's not like your local dealer carries it. BUT it does happen.

Oh you would be very mistaken about that and happens to men to.Alot alot of them don't come forward.
And ofc they can get their hands on it,you can get your hands on anything you want even horse tranquilizers if you know the right people.

Prof.Badass

CCCP^ wrote: »

It's not as common as people might think, I mean who has access to those type of drugs? Usually pharmacists and chemists, but they have to account for all their stock, so I don't know how people are supposed to get their hands on that stuff, it's not like your local dealer carries it. BUT it does happen.

Actually, there was a huge robbery of pharmaceutical sedatives back in may (including 80,000 pills of rohypnol).

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0512/breaking38.html

Unless these pills ended up leaving the country they probably ended up in the hands of dealers. I'd imagine they were sold on to desperate benzo-addicts rather than rapists though tbh.

I have no idea how long this amount of drugs would stay around though, they could still be out there.

caseyann

http://www.crimereduction.homeoffice.gov.uk/studentcrime/studentcrime7e.htm



*Please note these figures do notinclude drug rape incidents reported to the Northern Irish branch of the Roofie Foundation organised by The Rape Crisis & Sexual Abuse Centre, Belfast.
Table 1.2 Where the Drug was Administered*


*Note - These figures include the incidents that occurred abroad
Table 1.3 Age of Victim

• These figures show that this crime is still on the increase - yet very few of these case are ever reported to the police. The Roofie Foundation states that out of the incidents reported to them, less than 15% of victims have officially reported this crime to the police.
  
• Similarly, due to the difficulty in gathering evidence very few of those cases that are reported ever reach court. It also has to be noted that many survivors phone in to report events that happened to them some years ago. Either they have just come to realise what really happened, or have just found the help-line number.
  
• Recently it has been acknowledged that rape is the most under-reported crime in Britain and drug rape is likely to be reported even less. If we accept that only one in five rapes are ever reported and add this factor to the numbers reported on the Roofie help line, the true figure is in excess of 13,000! How many actual victims there are there that haven't reported the crime to the Roofie Foundation, the police or anyone?

The Police

The Roofie Foundation welcomes the increased awareness and sensitivity of police forces around the UK in the handling of drug related rape and sexual abuse and have assisted a number of forces, including Thames Valley, Essex, West Midlands and Northumberland forces in creating their own drink spiking awareness campaigns.
The Roofie Foundation still feels that leadership should be taken at the top and believes that the misuse of so called "date rape drugs" poses a greater threat than a drug such as ecstasy. To put things in perspective, according to official figures, there are between 1.5 - 1.75 million users of ecstasy every weekend, with a total of 111 recorded deaths in England between 1993 and 2001. The misuse of Rohypnol and other drugs such as GHB has led to over 5,500 rapes, leaving behind a trail of traumatized and shattered victims, their partners and their families.
Pubs and Breweries - Time Please

It should be of major concern to everyone but especially those working in the brewing industry that figures from the Roofie Foundation show the majority of victims had their drinks spiked in a pub or on a licensed premises. Despite many attempts to enlist the help of members of the brewing industry and despite a large article in the licensed trades' own press, to date no company or organisation in the brewery and leisure industry has shown any interest in the work being undertaken by the Roofie Foundation.
For further information, contact: