Border extension

soldering iron

Border extension

The Waterford By-pass is finally in place and what a great add asset to this city this In fracture scheme will be in the not to distant further. We are now left with 2 main objectives

1: University status for this region \in hand
2: The extension of the city to incorporate all the peoples that use the cities amenities, In other word the movement of the city boundary north .

This should be a major objective of the Present Council; all lands with in the Waterford By-pass should come under the control of the Waterford city council. This will help the city to grow and increase the monies that the central government has to pay to run a bigger city. Therefore I will ask any of the city council member that DO frequent this site to please progress this in all haste

Cabaal

Trying to take land....yeah this will end well

alpha2zulu

soldering iron wrote: »

Border extension

2: The extension of the city to incorporate all the peoples that use the cities amenities, In other word the movement of the city boundary north .

This should be a major objective of the Present Council; all lands with in the Waterford By-pass should come under the control of the Waterford city council.

Besides the can of worms issue and possible trolling,I dont think a lot of South Kilkenny people will appreciate suddenly been governed by a Sinn Fein/Labour/Workers party commie alliance...thanks but no thanks:rolleyes:.

Overnight we would invariably see a 60kph limit suddenly plonked on the new bypass on the grounds of it being under Waterford City Council control! Just look at the ORR.

soldering iron

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Besides the can of worms issue and possible trolling,I dont think a lot of South Kilkenny people will appreciate suddenly been governed by a Sinn Fein/Labour/Workers party commie alliance...thanks but no thanks:rolleyes:.

Overnight we would invariably see a 60kph limit suddenly plonked on the new bypass on the grounds of it being under Waterford City Council control! Just look at the ORR.

This is something that has to be achieved, in the interest of the city it is very important for the region.why else would the council have put forward it plan's to extent to bondary,there is more to the world than parish pump politics.we are a country , not counties, is there no reason other than black & amber and blue & white.this in it's self is no reason to stop the growth of a regional capital waterford City.

alpha2zulu

soldering iron wrote: »

This is something that has to be achieved, in the interest of the city it is very important for the region.why else would the council have put forward it plan's to extent to bondary.

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

Cabaal

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Overnight we would invariably see a 60kph limit suddenly plonked on the new bypass on the grounds of it being under Waterford City Council control! Just look at the ORR.

The ORR is a joke, its twice the road quality and size/width of the Kilkenny City ORR (which has a 100km limit) yet it 60km....its insane!

Its worth noting that the Kilkenny ORR also has lighting and paths just like the Waterford ORR so why the hell is Waterford limiting it to such a slow speed?

alpha2zulu wrote: »

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

Spot on,
Waterford CC now want the benefits of what was done in Ferrybank without first putting in all the work (easier for somebody else to do it), Waterford CC are also not short for land that can be developed....develope towards the Cork road direction and you'll be fine

mike65

No, go north. It makes sense, Ferrybank would have been developed better and quicker if it were within the city limts. KCC have shown little interest historicaly and thats to be seen in the infrastructure of the south of the county.

soldering iron

alpha2zulu wrote: »

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

This is just Parish pump politics, this is just very narrow minded thinking, the city if it is to develop most has a balance area.Limerick city sufferes from the same GAA flag followers who believe that there is somer difference between counties.

The myriad of reasons are not specfic enough , please inform me of this myraid of reasons.

trishw78

People have already made there opinions clear on this. They don't want to be part of Waterford, their reasons are there own.

Cabaal

I think the only way to be 100% sure and fair in relation to Waterford's apparent 'want' to take Kilkenny land is to actually allow the residents in the affected area to vote if they want to allow Waterford to do so.

If the residents vote that they don't then the matter should be ended, if they vote they want to be part of Waterford then leave them do so.

However until such a situation happens and the actual people living in these areas get to all have their say in such a way as a vote this matter will continue to be brought up and opened like a can of worms every so often.

The very fact that you don't exactly hear the residents in these areas shouting that they want to be part of Waterford should give people a very good hint that they simply don't want to be, no matter what people might say regarding Kilkenny neglecting them.

I';m sure if Kilkenny was neglecting them they'd jump at the chance to be part of Waterford.....but then they are not

soldering iron, don't you think a vote would be a fair way of settling this?

fricatus

Cabaal wrote: »

Trying to take land....

Calm down there now horsey... nobody's taking anyone's land... :rolleyes: We're talking about redrawing local council boundaries. It happens in other countries on a routine basis. Poor little Rutland in England disappeared for decades for example! It's only in Ireland that we see local authority boundaries as sacred lines, set down through the ages since time immemorial...

Cabaal wrote: »

The ORR is a joke, its twice the road quality and size/width of the Kilkenny City ORR (which has a 100km limit) yet it 60km....its insane!

What's that got to do with the price of eggs? There are stupid speed limits all over the country! For God's sake you can do a legal 100 km/h around blind bends near Lukeswell and Ennisnag, so I'd hardly be holding Kilkenny up as some sort of shining example.

Cabaal wrote: »

Waterford CC now want the benefits of what was done in Ferrybank without first putting in all the work (easier for somebody else to do it)

What has Kilkenny County Council ever done in Ferrybank? Waterford City Council has been building council houses there, outside its own area, because KCC has been neglecting the needs of the people who live there.

KCC only ever showed any interest in the area when WCC proposed the boundary extension.

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years.

What development levies? They've already been paid.

As for commercial rates, why shouldn't the city council benefit? The people of Ferrybank mostly go to school, work, college, etc. in Waterford. They drive on Waterford's streets. Why shouldn't their rates go back to the city on which they depend?

ziedth

But what would happen to the coutless jokes of people coming over from kilkenny taking our waterford jobs. No no I'm not for this at all :pac::pac::pac:

Seriously, It wouldn't really bother me of CC boundrys where changed and I ended up in kilkenny. I suppose I'm not from the hardline GAA head generation so that might be it too.

merlante

We need a change of government before either will happen. If a FF government minister based in Waterford cannot get either issue sorted, then FF are never going to get it sorted, not unless there's a big clearout of the current order.

The boundary issue is one of the those really straight forward things, that makes complete sense to everyone on a rational level, but on a GAA/parochial mud-slinging level it needs intervention from the central government to get it through. All that it would mean would be that funds raised in Ferrybank would be spent in Waterford city rather than throughout Co. Kilkenny (or more likely to build yet another roundabout in Kilkenny city). The chances of Ferrybank seeing the funds generated in Ferrybank come back to Ferrybank would be far greater imho. Unfortunately, a lot of south Kilkenny politicians are uneducated muck savages who think that the issue is about trying to steal hurlers, or grab terrain -- as if the individuals would have land confiscated. In any case, at least 50% of the people in the affected area are Waterford people anyway.

As for the university, again, FF have shown they will not deliver on this. Hopefully the other crowd will think differently, if and when they get into office. This 'cult of the world class university', where certain lobby groups argue that Ireland would be better off with 3 universities rather than 7/8, has to be taken on as well. Better to have an ecosystem of competing institutions, spread out geographically to cover major population catchments (as is currently the case), than to merge them all into a handful of inefficient bureaucratic institutions that end of offering less than the sum of their original parts, just to go for scale. (Harvard only has something like 7,000 undergrads.) But this is a big debate that has to happen.

Cabaal

fricatus wrote: »

What has Kilkenny County Council ever done in Ferrybank? Waterford City Council has been building council houses there, outside its own area, because KCC has been neglecting the needs of the people who live there.

KCC only ever showed any interest in the area when WCC proposed the boundary extension.

Once again this is all in your view that the area has been neglected, simple question do you think that the people affected should be allowed to vote on this?

They are the people that will be directly affected so its only fair they have a voice.

trishw78

WCC have never gone to ask the people what they want, they haven't even put forward a proposal of how things would be better/changed for the people in Ferrybank

merlante

Cabaal wrote: »

Once again this is all in your view that the area has been neglected, simple question do you think that the people affected should be allowed to vote on this?

They are the people that will be directly affected so its only fair they have a voice.

I think it's fairly obvious the place has been neglected. I thought even south Kilkenny people were more or less agreed on this.

I think this is a planning issue, I don't think there is really a need for people to vote on it. A vote would get turn people against each other and turn the whole thing into a national farce. We're just talking about moving a local council boundary here, not centralising power in Brussels...

Kilkenny borough council extended its boundaries a while ago and not a word was said about it. Why? Because it's the same GAA team either side of the boundary. Do we really want people voting along hurling lines about something that is about planning?

soldering iron

Cabaal wrote: »

Once again this is all in your view that the area has been neglected, simple question do you think that the people affected should be allowed to vote on this?

They are the people that will be directly affected so its only fair they have a voice.

The Bigger picture is what it is about, the Growth of the city. There has been not reply to the myriad of reasons to why this should not happen, the more monies the Waterford city council get the more amenities we in the city's sphere of influence have to rare our children. This is the real reason we as human are here; we must pull together to provide for the next generations

How to conquer people is to divide them, this will mean that they are fighting amount themselves rather than fight for their proper Rights
We are all Irish to the core and not anything else

trishw78

merlate wrote:

Kilkenny borough council extended its boundaries a while ago and not a word was said about it. Why?

It was extended into it's own county, not a neighbouring county.

Sully

merlante wrote: »

Unfortunately, a lot of south Kilkenny politicians are uneducated muck savages who think that the issue is about trying to steal hurlers, or grab terrain -- as if the individuals would have land confiscated

Uneducated muck savages, eh? Talk about generalising. Have you some information which shows they never received any education? I think you should retract that statement - you are smart enough to make your point without scraping the barrel and throwing insults about. Thats a rather "uneducated" approach to a debate.

Bards

I just think it is very ironic that Waterford City Centre is not actually in the centre of "The City" becasue ""The City" had to develop unnaturally (I.E not circular) due to the boundary issue.

just look at google maps etc and see how dense one side of the river (I.E City) is to the other. This does not make for good planning and land use

merlante

Sully wrote: »

Uneducated muck savages, eh? Talk about generalising. Have you some information which shows they never received any education? I think you should retract that statement - you are smart enough to make your point without scraping the barrel and throwing insults about. Thats a rather "uneducated" approach to a debate.

Well I never said all of them were muck savages. Dick Dowling is one classic example of a complete savage, and whoever else was attached to the article in the Kilkenny People that claimed that Waterford City Council were like Nazis looking for lebensraum. An article which is now strangely difficult to find on google! Education is not necessarily something you get in school (and this man was a school teacher believe it or not).

I am not going to nick pick and fudge around politically correct language; the sort of behaviour that occurred during the (still extant) boundary application was inimical to savagery imho., and the arguments that were made were not indicative of a forward looking society. I'm not saying that the Waterford city councillors are perfect, but jesus... Maybe you should go through some of the old threads/coverage to refresh your memory. Killinaskully type stuff, you couldn't make it up.

KingLoser

This is a funny argument.

It's pretty obvious the general concenses in south kk is that they don't want this to happen. Why not just continue developing on the southside? There's plenty of unused land in Gracedieu/Carrickpherish that's just as close to the "centre" as Ferrybank is.

And why does it need to be balanced anyway? So it'll look good from a plane?

Cabaal

KingLoser wrote: »

This is a funny argument.

It's pretty obvious the general concenses in south kk is that they don't want this to happen. Why not just continue developing on the southside? There's plenty of unused land in Gracedieu/Carrickpherish that's just as close to the "centre" as Ferrybank is.

And why does it need to be balanced anyway? So it'll look good from a plane?

Spot on,
I guess the want it because of part of the human condition, people want what they can't have

Bards

KingLoser wrote: »

This is a funny argument.

It's pretty obvious the general concenses in south kk is that they don't want this to happen. Why not just continue developing on the southside? There's plenty of unused land in Gracedieu/Carrickpherish that's just as close to the "centre" as Ferrybank is.

And why does it need to be balanced anyway? So it'll look good from a plane?

Hypotethical scenario:

Can you imagine if say Meath controlled all Land north of the Liffey in Dublin City Centre and Dublin City Council Controlled all land South of the Liffey what it would be like? Would we have balanced development? Woulkd services suffer?

Money raised north in of the Liffey would be spent in Meath to the detrement of Dublin City Centre. Would this be allowed - I think not. but is happening here, becasue Waterford does not have the same political clout as Dublin.


So why is it that money raised on the border of Waterford City is not spent in the area but is spent 30 miles north, All the while services are suffering due to this rate grab that is ongoing by our county cousins.

Just look at the new sign approaching Waterford from the new Newrath Roundabout for example. It was blackend out by our friendly neighbours in case some tourists/strangers might be able to find Waterford - WTF?

This is economic sabotage at its highest and Kilkenny councillors have the nerve to call Waterford City Council Nazis. I think they should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what are they doing to promote & stengthen the South East?

trishw78

you can't compare North of the Liffey Dublin to Ferrybank.

Bards wrote:

Just look at the new sign approaching Waterford from the new Newrath Roundabout for example. It was blackend out by our friendly neighbours in case some tourists/strangers might be able to find Waterford - WTF?

The sign at the Newrath roundabout wasn't blackened out by Kilkenny folk but by the developers of the new road scheme. Do have any proof to substantiated this claim?

wellboytoo

If there is an elephant in the room in this argument, it is the extremely large white elephant that KK Co Co gave planning for despite all advice to the contrary that it was too big etc for the area in a cynical rate grab at Waterford City, this is a fact it is not an opinion and unfortunately this fine building will never open as it is in the wrong place and too big, but when the vandalism starts and it will , will KK co co be prepared to pick up the tab for their shameful actions ?
As regards the boundary extension , heard it all before snorefest, logic says it should happen but petty politics are in the way, it will happen someday when it is expedient to the powers that be, or they can blame someone else!

soldering iron

Kilkenny folk

This is the whole argument in a nutshell, some where in your small mind you believe that "Kilkenny folk" exist. We are Irish, and nothing else, what team you support does not define an ethnic group; I know people that support Liverpool does this make them liverpoolians the interest of the majority must prevail

trishw78

I haven't mentioned team nor has anyone else, so why bring it into the arguement.

I believe there called liverpudlians not liverpoolians.

Typewriter

trishw78 wrote: »

you can't compare North of the Liffey Dublin to Ferrybank.

He can and did and he makes a valid point.

trishw78 wrote: »

The sign at the Newrath roundabout wasn't blackened out by Kilkenny folk but by the developers of the new road scheme. Do have any proof to substantiated this claim?

They had to blank it out as the residents complained. Which of course is ridiculous because the road does directly lead into Waterford city so why can't it state the obvious.

The argument against is only GAA team county colour politics. I'm sure when the city border extension does go through you can still wear whatever jersey and support any team that you want.

fricatus

TBH, only a proper, comprehensive redrawing of the local government map will sort out the mess.

Being surrounded by two local authorities that see Waterford as a source of funding for their own projects is a major part of the problem. KCC allowing a huge shopping centre to go ahead in Ferrybank is just one side of the coin. (Isn't it great though, to be able to plonk a huge shopping centre on the edge of the city next door and pull in alll those rates that can be spent on widening the Bennetsbridge roundabout or whatever else...)

Dungarvan County Council (can we really call them Waterford County Council?) have done the same. They've allowed a huge TKMaxx shop to be opened just the other side of the city boundary. And while it's nice to see the lovely playground they've opened there recently and the newly redone Clonea road, you only need to compare that with the level of spending they do on Tramore to know where TKMaxx and Harvey Norman's rates will go.

What all the cities of Ireland need is to be responsible for the planning of their entire hinterlands, out to a radius of about 25 or 30 km. If the government wants to set up this sort of system across the country, or have larger (Co Cork-sized) regional councils, that's fine, but the cities must be able to plan themselves.

And I don't care what they're called. When France brought in the départements back in the day, they called them after natural features. They can call all these areas Suirside, Noreside, Comeragh, Slaneyside, etc. for all I care. That takes care of the arguments about KK people not wanting to live "in Waterford" (as if someone was moving their house... :rolleyes:). What we need is proper planning, and we're not getting it.

Cabaal

Bards wrote: »

This is economic sabotage at its highest and Kilkenny councillors have the nerve to call Waterford City Council Nazis. I think they should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what are they doing to promote & stengthen the South East?

Your rantings are paranoid, claiming Kilkenny is trying to sabotage Waterford.
paranoid much?

Cabaal

soldering iron wrote: »

Kilkenny folk

This is the whole argument in a nutshell, some where in your small mind you believe that "Kilkenny folk" exist. We are Irish, and nothing else, what team you support does not define an ethnic group; I know people that support Liverpool does this make them liverpoolians the interest of the majority must prevail

once again this some Waterford people's broken record argument,
You might have a chip on your shoulder about the GAA etc but that doesn't mean all Kilkenny people do, I couldn't give a monkleys about the GAA I don't have any stickers or flags on my house or any crap like that.

Sport just doesn't come into it for me but at the end of the day if Waterford want land to devlope let them do it on exisiting land, they have plenty of it.

When it comes to excuses for wanting to affectively take the land the broken record starts again and they say Kilkenny ignores the area, if this was an issue why don't Kilkenny people say this?

Paddy@CIRL

merlante wrote: »

I think it's fairly obvious the place has been neglected. I thought even south Kilkenny people were more or less agreed on this.

The only parts of Ferrybank that are neglected are in the Waterford CC boundaries. Get off your high horse before proclaiming an area to be 'neglected'.

What have Kilkenny CC given Ferrybank ?



You can bet your arse on it that it would never of happened had it of been in the WCC boundary. It may not be open yet but when it is, I'll be glad to never have to go across the bridge to that embarrassment of a city center.

WCC would be better off trying fix what they have, before trying to ruin what they don't.

For the record, I do live within the WCC boundary.

soldering iron

trishw78 wrote: »

I haven't mentioned team nor has anyone else, so why bring it into the arguement.

I believe there called liverpudlians not liverpoolians.

great!! you are so out there


Yes you have not mentioned teams , but the under linng current is that the extension is about a little jersey.

Bards

Paddy@CIRL wrote: »

The only parts of Ferrybank that are neglected are in the Waterford CC boundaries. Get off your high horse before proclaiming an area to be 'neglected'.

What have Kilkenny CC given Ferrybank ?



You can bet your arse on it that it would never of happened had it of been in the WCC boundary. It may not be open yet but when it is, I'll be glad to never have to go across the bridge to that embarrassment of a city center.

WCC would be better off trying fix what they have, before trying to ruin what they don't.

For the record, I do live within the WCC boundary.

I love this priceless quote from http://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/Blow-for-city-as-mart.5770713.jp

"Kilkenny has been relatively fortunate, we didn't over do out of town retail like other towns in the region. Many places like Clonmel and Carlow are suffering because of an over proliferation of retail on the edge of their towns," he claimed ( Mayor of the city, Malcolm Noonan )

No Kilkenny gave Waterford City an out-of-town development instead - more economic espionage

alpha2zulu

soldering iron wrote: »

Yes you have not mentioned teams , but the under linng current is that the extension is about a little jersey.

In who's opinion excatly,havent seen that slant trotted out in the debate at all! Pure nonsense.

The only parts of Ferrybank that are neglected are in the Waterford CC boundaries. Get off your high horse before proclaiming an area to be 'neglected'.

What have Kilkenny CC given Ferrybank ?



You can bet your arse on it that it would never of happened had it of been in the WCC boundary. It may not be open yet but when it is, I'll be glad to never have to go across the bridge to that embarrassment of a city center.

Ferrybank SC,theres some balanced development straight off and having the likes of Aldi and the shopping centre out there in Ferrybank once open will save you doing battle with the parking fine malitia o'er the bridge.

Besides the bombsite that is the current N9 I wouldent say South KK is neglected at all,and as I live there I think I should know! And to slag off all the politicians in the area is way off the mark.Like everywhere some of them are only deadweights but then others like Tomas Bhreathnach is extremely well respected.

Besides, the issue of boundary extension would appear to be the least of Watererford's CC's problems at the moment with this thread seemingly only being a product of one persons anti KK vendetta:rolleyes:

Squidvicious

fricatus wrote: »

TBH, only a proper, comprehensive redrawing of the local government map will sort out the mess.

Being surrounded by two local authorities that see Waterford as a source of funding for their own projects is a major part of the problem. KCC allowing a huge shopping centre to go ahead in Ferrybank is just one side of the coin. (Isn't it great though, to be able to plonk a huge shopping centre on the edge of the city next door and pull in alll those rates that can be spent on widening the Bennetsbridge roundabout or whatever else...)

Dungarvan County Council (can we really call them Waterford County Council?) have done the same. They've allowed a huge TKMaxx shop to be opened just the other side of the city boundary. And while it's nice to see the lovely playground they've opened there recently and the newly redone Clonea road, you only need to compare that with the level of spending they do on Tramore to know where TKMaxx and Harvey Norman's rates will go.

What all the cities of Ireland need is to be responsible for the planning of their entire hinterlands, out to a radius of about 25 or 30 km. If the government wants to set up this sort of system across the country, or have larger (Co Cork-sized) regional councils, that's fine, but the cities must be able to plan themselves.

And I don't care what they're called. When France brought in the départements back in the day, they called them after natural features. They can call all these areas Suirside, Noreside, Comeragh, Slaneyside, etc. for all I care. That takes care of the arguments about KK people not wanting to live "in Waterford" (as if someone was moving their house... :rolleyes:). What we need is proper planning, and we're not getting it.

I think that Fricatus's point is an excellent one and has been forgotten/ignored in all the mud-slinging . Kilkenny people always get called parochial when they argue against the boundary extension , but you can
argue that it's the Waterford side that's being parichial by wanting to enlarge their area for no good reason . Let's face it , moving the boundary by a mile or two is hardly likely to transform the city . County boundaries either need wholesale reform ( perhaps something based on telephone area coeds e.g. 051 etc.) or they should be left alone . Minor tinkering makes little difference .

Mind you , wholesale change will probably enrage just about everybody

JohnC.

Would it not be a good idea to do something about the city centre instead of trying to aquire land across the river and developing there instead? There's too many dead units in the centre already. Or perhaps Ferrybank should close down some more of theirs to achieve the fabled balance.

trishw78

Don't see how close the unit in Ferrybank is going to help. But your point is well made WCC need to sort out there problems in the City Centre before they start wanting to extend anything.

then maybe the people in ferrybank will be more open to the idea.

soldering iron

In who's opinion excatly,havent seen that slant trotted out in the debate at all! Pure nonsense.
well then, what is the problem with a part of the irish countryside been brought into a Irish city.

Besides, the issue of boundary extension would appear to be the least of Watererford's CC's problems at the moment with this thread seemingly only being a product of one persons anti KK vendetta
If you a referring to my good self here, i look at the bigger picture and the econimic future of the area.the well beening of the people that inhabit this land at this point and time.

Bards

Cabaal wrote: »

Your rantings are paranoid, claiming Kilkenny is trying to sabotage Waterford.
paranoid much?

How can they be paranoid rantings if they are true. Surely the council who insists on covering up the "Welcome to Waterford" sign has more serious issues than I

jmcc

The problem is that Kilkenny is a town that thinks it is a city and Waterford is a city that has the problems of a town due to the neglect over most of a century by the idiots in Dublin.

Regards...jmcc

Cabaal

jmcc wrote: »

The problem is that Kilkenny is a town that thinks it is a city and Waterford is a city that has the problems of a town due to the neglect over most of a century by the idiots in Dublin.

Regards...jmcc

Lets not start this town and city ****e again.
Kilkenny City
Waterford City
Leave it at that and try stick to the topic at hand atleast lads seriously

Waterford does have a number of issues that have been very badly neglected for a long time and these needs to be sorted before Waterford should even think of trying to do a land takeover.....its not some magic thing that will solve all the citys problems

jmcc

Cabaal wrote: »

Lets not start this town and city ****e again.
Kilkenny City
Waterford City
Leave it at that and try stick to the topic at hand atleast lads seriously

That city/town aspect is the kernel of the issue. The reality is that Kilkenny is a city on paper but is, by population, a town. Waterford is a city and like most cities it is growing. As cities grow then tend to urbanise and expand so that smaller satellite towns become absorbed into a greatly enlarged city area. This long-term expansion seems to be worrying Kilkenny.

Waterford does have a number of issues that have been very badly neglected for a long time and these needs to be sorted before Waterford should even think of trying to do a land takeover.....its not some magic thing that will solve all the citys problems

Waterford was a major trading city before DeValera and the rest of the gobsh!tes in Dublin ruined Ireland's economy and infrastructure. The inbred moronicism of the Irish political scene allowed villages like Galway to overtake it. Waterford has a lot of things to solve first.

Regards...jmcc

JohnC.

jmcc wrote: »

That city/town aspect is the kernel of the issue. The reality is that Kilkenny is a city on paper but is, by population, a town.

What does that even mean? There is no population definition of what a city is. There are a few real definition used, as opposed to imaginary ones, and Kilkenny does fit some of them, as does Waterford. There isn't all that much difference between Kilkenny and Waterford cities in the grand scheme of things. They are both tiny cities.

jmcc

Kahless wrote: »

What does that even mean? There is no population definition of what a city is.

It means that Waterford city has a larger population than Kilkenny city. Waterford city seems to be growing and as cities grow they tend to absorb satellite towns to such an extent that they become areas in an enlarged city. Part of Waterford city is technically in county Kilkenny and with the way that Waterford is growing, that part of Waterford city is likely to expand.

Regards...jmcc

JohnC.

jmcc wrote: »

It means that Waterford city has a larger population than Kilkenny city.

No, the quoted part, about how Kilkenny is a town by population.

As for the above, just because it has a smaller population than another city doesn't mean it isn't a city itself. I'm sure Waterford had a smaller population at one point while still being a city too.

jmcc

Kahless wrote: »

No, the quoted part, about how Kilkenny is a town by population.

Kilkenny is a city by statute. If it purely was down to population there are other areas that could equally claim to be cities.

As for the above, just because it has a smaller population than another city doesn't mean it isn't a city itself. I'm sure Waterford had a smaller population at one point while still being a city too.

Yes but the way things tend to work is that the larger city expands and absorbs the smaller satellite towns.

Regards...jmcc

thund3rbird_

from the CSO website
(http://www.cso.ie/statistics/popofeachprovcountycity2006.htm)

regarding the population, it lists each county and in the case of the FIVE counties that have cities they are listed separately for city & county

the 5 are Dublin, Cork, Galway, Limerick & Waterford.

was up in the north west recently & Sligo (& I think Letterkenny) is now getting in on this pretence of calling itself a city - roundabouts on the outskirts with 'city centre' signs.

back to topic ...

I'm sure if Cork, Tipp or Wexford Co Councils (KK excluded here on purpose) wanted to extend their boundaries into parts of Co Waterford there would be objections too even though the areas in question would be rural areas.
However, the objections regarding extending the city boundary northwards seem to be solely on the objective of blocking the development of the city , a development that will no doubt benefit the entire region.

It's like a child having a toy that they don't like and never play with. They don't really want it but will scream blue murder should another child go anywhere near it.

All sides should cop on and come to some sort of agreement about what is best for the region.
There are people from Tipp, KK & Wex all working in Waterford & I'm sure people from Waterford working in the other counties as well (maybe not as many).
The whole region needs to start pulling together for everyone's good instead of employing these parish-pump style politics that seems to have ruled throughout the country for generations.

west101

alpha2zulu wrote: »

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

The way the KCC have planned the area is a total disgrace. the amount houses on the abbey road over the years has incresed more than ten fold and the road is still not fit for a push bike.

merlante

People seem to think that Waterford CC are trying to expand the city northwards. While the CC does prefer symmetrical growth because services are cheaper to provide, the city is expanding northwards whether we like it or not, because people are moving there.

There reaches a point where it is quicker to get across the river than it is to come in from the suburbs on the south side, and ultimately, when people buy houses they don't tend to think about hurling jurisdictions, they think about the fundamentals of getting to work, school, etc. People are living there, and you can't tell them to live in Gracedieu or wherever if that's where they want to live. Cities and towns grow organically and under normal circumstances boundaries change to reflect growth. According to the last census, there are about 4,000 people, or 8% of the urban area, in the northern suburbs of Waterford, outside of the boundary. That figure is about double what it was in 2002. It probably stands at about 5,000 now because it was/is one of the fastest growing parts of the city, and will have grown strongly in 2007, even if nobody was buying/building a whole lot over the past two years.

At what point do people accept that the city is expanding northwards? Where should the rates go? Obviously to Waterford CC who are generating the growth. There were no people living there until Waterford city grew in population. The people in the northern suburbs deserve to have the rates generated locally, spent locally, which is much less likely to happen when Kilkenny people consider south Kilkenny to be basically Waterford anyway. They won't spend big money that close to Waterford city and that far away from Kilkenny. Anyone monitoring the sort of road maintenance, etc., conducted by Kilkenny Co. Co. in the area knows this. They wouldn't even clean the place up and cut a few weeds for the Tall Ships, because Kilkenny Co. Co. don't give a damn about Tall Ships in Waterford.

Once you take hurling out of it, and once you take cash out of it, there is no reason why the boundary should not be increased. In any other country in the world it would be normal practice. In Kilkenny city the boundary was expanded recently and nobody said a word because it was the same GAA team either side of the boundary. When it's Waterford city, there's talk of invasions and land grabs, and the sort of parochial savagery that always seems to trump good planning in this country. In the middle of big recession and nothing looks like it's going to change. We're bankrupt, financially and morally, in this country because we always bow to vested interests rather than do what is right.