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Border extension

soldering iron

Border extension

The Waterford By-pass is finally in place and what a great add asset to this city this In fracture scheme will be in the not to distant further. We are now left with 2 main objectives

1: University status for this region \in hand
2: The extension of the city to incorporate all the peoples that use the cities amenities, In other word the movement of the city boundary north .

This should be a major objective of the Present Council; all lands with in the Waterford By-pass should come under the control of the Waterford city council. This will help the city to grow and increase the monies that the central government has to pay to run a bigger city. Therefore I will ask any of the city council member that DO frequent this site to please progress this in all haste

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Cabaal

Bards wrote: »

This is economic sabotage at its highest and Kilkenny councillors have the nerve to call Waterford City Council Nazis. I think they should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what are they doing to promote & stengthen the South East?

Your rantings are paranoid, claiming Kilkenny is trying to sabotage Waterford.
paranoid much?

fricatus

TBH, only a proper, comprehensive redrawing of the local government map will sort out the mess.

Being surrounded by two local authorities that see Waterford as a source of funding for their own projects is a major part of the problem. KCC allowing a huge shopping centre to go ahead in Ferrybank is just one side of the coin. (Isn't it great though, to be able to plonk a huge shopping centre on the edge of the city next door and pull in alll those rates that can be spent on widening the Bennetsbridge roundabout or whatever else...)

Dungarvan County Council (can we really call them Waterford County Council?) have done the same. They've allowed a huge TKMaxx shop to be opened just the other side of the city boundary. And while it's nice to see the lovely playground they've opened there recently and the newly redone Clonea road, you only need to compare that with the level of spending they do on Tramore to know where TKMaxx and Harvey Norman's rates will go.

What all the cities of Ireland need is to be responsible for the planning of their entire hinterlands, out to a radius of about 25 or 30 km. If the government wants to set up this sort of system across the country, or have larger (Co Cork-sized) regional councils, that's fine, but the cities must be able to plan themselves.

And I don't care what they're called. When France brought in the départements back in the day, they called them after natural features. They can call all these areas Suirside, Noreside, Comeragh, Slaneyside, etc. for all I care. That takes care of the arguments about KK people not wanting to live "in Waterford" (as if someone was moving their house... :rolleyes:). What we need is proper planning, and we're not getting it.

Typewriter

trishw78 wrote: »

you can't compare North of the Liffey Dublin to Ferrybank.

He can and did and he makes a valid point.

trishw78 wrote: »

The sign at the Newrath roundabout wasn't blackened out by Kilkenny folk but by the developers of the new road scheme. Do have any proof to substantiated this claim?

They had to blank it out as the residents complained. Which of course is ridiculous because the road does directly lead into Waterford city so why can't it state the obvious.

The argument against is only GAA team county colour politics. I'm sure when the city border extension does go through you can still wear whatever jersey and support any team that you want.

trishw78

I haven't mentioned team nor has anyone else, so why bring it into the arguement.

I believe there called liverpudlians not liverpoolians.

soldering iron

Kilkenny folk

This is the whole argument in a nutshell, some where in your small mind you believe that "Kilkenny folk" exist. We are Irish, and nothing else, what team you support does not define an ethnic group; I know people that support Liverpool does this make them liverpoolians the interest of the majority must prevail

wellboytoo

If there is an elephant in the room in this argument, it is the extremely large white elephant that KK Co Co gave planning for despite all advice to the contrary that it was too big etc for the area in a cynical rate grab at Waterford City, this is a fact it is not an opinion and unfortunately this fine building will never open as it is in the wrong place and too big, but when the vandalism starts and it will , will KK co co be prepared to pick up the tab for their shameful actions ?
As regards the boundary extension , heard it all before snorefest, logic says it should happen but petty politics are in the way, it will happen someday when it is expedient to the powers that be, or they can blame someone else!

trishw78

you can't compare North of the Liffey Dublin to Ferrybank.

Bards wrote:

Just look at the new sign approaching Waterford from the new Newrath Roundabout for example. It was blackend out by our friendly neighbours in case some tourists/strangers might be able to find Waterford - WTF?

The sign at the Newrath roundabout wasn't blackened out by Kilkenny folk but by the developers of the new road scheme. Do have any proof to substantiated this claim?

Bards

KingLoser wrote: »

This is a funny argument.

It's pretty obvious the general concenses in south kk is that they don't want this to happen. Why not just continue developing on the southside? There's plenty of unused land in Gracedieu/Carrickpherish that's just as close to the "centre" as Ferrybank is.

And why does it need to be balanced anyway? So it'll look good from a plane?

Hypotethical scenario:

Can you imagine if say Meath controlled all Land north of the Liffey in Dublin City Centre and Dublin City Council Controlled all land South of the Liffey what it would be like? Would we have balanced development? Woulkd services suffer?

Money raised north in of the Liffey would be spent in Meath to the detrement of Dublin City Centre. Would this be allowed - I think not. but is happening here, becasue Waterford does not have the same political clout as Dublin.

So why is it that money raised on the border of Waterford City is not spent in the area but is spent 30 miles north, All the while services are suffering due to this rate grab that is ongoing by our county cousins.

Just look at the new sign approaching Waterford from the new Newrath Roundabout for example. It was blackend out by our friendly neighbours in case some tourists/strangers might be able to find Waterford - WTF?

This is economic sabotage at its highest and Kilkenny councillors have the nerve to call Waterford City Council Nazis. I think they should take a long hard look in the mirror and ask themselves what are they doing to promote & stengthen the South East?

Cabaal

KingLoser wrote: »

This is a funny argument.

It's pretty obvious the general concenses in south kk is that they don't want this to happen. Why not just continue developing on the southside? There's plenty of unused land in Gracedieu/Carrickpherish that's just as close to the "centre" as Ferrybank is.

And why does it need to be balanced anyway? So it'll look good from a plane?

Spot on,
I guess the want it because of part of the human condition, people want what they can't have

KingLoser

This is a funny argument.

It's pretty obvious the general concenses in south kk is that they don't want this to happen. Why not just continue developing on the southside? There's plenty of unused land in Gracedieu/Carrickpherish that's just as close to the "centre" as Ferrybank is.

And why does it need to be balanced anyway? So it'll look good from a plane?

merlante

Sully wrote: »

Uneducated muck savages, eh? Talk about generalising. Have you some information which shows they never received any education? I think you should retract that statement - you are smart enough to make your point without scraping the barrel and throwing insults about. Thats a rather "uneducated" approach to a debate.

Well I never said all of them were muck savages. Dick Dowling is one classic example of a complete savage, and whoever else was attached to the article in the Kilkenny People that claimed that Waterford City Council were like Nazis looking for lebensraum. An article which is now strangely difficult to find on google! Education is not necessarily something you get in school (and this man was a school teacher believe it or not).

I am not going to nick pick and fudge around politically correct language; the sort of behaviour that occurred during the (still extant) boundary application was inimical to savagery imho., and the arguments that were made were not indicative of a forward looking society. I'm not saying that the Waterford city councillors are perfect, but jesus... Maybe you should go through some of the old threads/coverage to refresh your memory. Killinaskully type stuff, you couldn't make it up.

Bards

I just think it is very ironic that Waterford City Centre is not actually in the centre of "The City" becasue ""The City" had to develop unnaturally (I.E not circular) due to the boundary issue.

just look at google maps etc and see how dense one side of the river (I.E City) is to the other. This does not make for good planning and land use

Sully

merlante wrote: »

Unfortunately, a lot of south Kilkenny politicians are uneducated muck savages who think that the issue is about trying to steal hurlers, or grab terrain -- as if the individuals would have land confiscated

Uneducated muck savages, eh? Talk about generalising. Have you some information which shows they never received any education? I think you should retract that statement - you are smart enough to make your point without scraping the barrel and throwing insults about. Thats a rather "uneducated" approach to a debate.

trishw78

merlate wrote:

Kilkenny borough council extended its boundaries a while ago and not a word was said about it. Why?

It was extended into it's own county, not a neighbouring county.

soldering iron

Cabaal wrote: »

Once again this is all in your view that the area has been neglected, simple question do you think that the people affected should be allowed to vote on this?

They are the people that will be directly affected so its only fair they have a voice.

The Bigger picture is what it is about, the Growth of the city. There has been not reply to the myriad of reasons to why this should not happen, the more monies the Waterford city council get the more amenities we in the city's sphere of influence have to rare our children. This is the real reason we as human are here; we must pull together to provide for the next generations

How to conquer people is to divide them, this will mean that they are fighting amount themselves rather than fight for their proper Rights
We are all Irish to the core and not anything else

merlante

Cabaal wrote: »

Once again this is all in your view that the area has been neglected, simple question do you think that the people affected should be allowed to vote on this?

They are the people that will be directly affected so its only fair they have a voice.

I think it's fairly obvious the place has been neglected. I thought even south Kilkenny people were more or less agreed on this.

I think this is a planning issue, I don't think there is really a need for people to vote on it. A vote would get turn people against each other and turn the whole thing into a national farce. We're just talking about moving a local council boundary here, not centralising power in Brussels...

Kilkenny borough council extended its boundaries a while ago and not a word was said about it. Why? Because it's the same GAA team either side of the boundary. Do we really want people voting along hurling lines about something that is about planning?

trishw78

WCC have never gone to ask the people what they want, they haven't even put forward a proposal of how things would be better/changed for the people in Ferrybank

Cabaal

fricatus wrote: »

What has Kilkenny County Council ever done in Ferrybank? Waterford City Council has been building council houses there, outside its own area, because KCC has been neglecting the needs of the people who live there.

KCC only ever showed any interest in the area when WCC proposed the boundary extension.

Once again this is all in your view that the area has been neglected, simple question do you think that the people affected should be allowed to vote on this?

They are the people that will be directly affected so its only fair they have a voice.

merlante

We need a change of government before either will happen. If a FF government minister based in Waterford cannot get either issue sorted, then FF are never going to get it sorted, not unless there's a big clearout of the current order.

The boundary issue is one of the those really straight forward things, that makes complete sense to everyone on a rational level, but on a GAA/parochial mud-slinging level it needs intervention from the central government to get it through. All that it would mean would be that funds raised in Ferrybank would be spent in Waterford city rather than throughout Co. Kilkenny (or more likely to build yet another roundabout in Kilkenny city). The chances of Ferrybank seeing the funds generated in Ferrybank come back to Ferrybank would be far greater imho. Unfortunately, a lot of south Kilkenny politicians are uneducated muck savages who think that the issue is about trying to steal hurlers, or grab terrain -- as if the individuals would have land confiscated. In any case, at least 50% of the people in the affected area are Waterford people anyway.

As for the university, again, FF have shown they will not deliver on this. Hopefully the other crowd will think differently, if and when they get into office. This 'cult of the world class university', where certain lobby groups argue that Ireland would be better off with 3 universities rather than 7/8, has to be taken on as well. Better to have an ecosystem of competing institutions, spread out geographically to cover major population catchments (as is currently the case), than to merge them all into a handful of inefficient bureaucratic institutions that end of offering less than the sum of their original parts, just to go for scale. (Harvard only has something like 7,000 undergrads.) But this is a big debate that has to happen.

ziedth

But what would happen to the coutless jokes of people coming over from kilkenny taking our waterford jobs. No no I'm not for this at all :pac::pac::pac:

Seriously, It wouldn't really bother me of CC boundrys where changed and I ended up in kilkenny. I suppose I'm not from the hardline GAA head generation so that might be it too.

fricatus

Cabaal wrote: »

Trying to take land....

Calm down there now horsey... nobody's taking anyone's land... :rolleyes: We're talking about redrawing local council boundaries. It happens in other countries on a routine basis. Poor little Rutland in England disappeared for decades for example! It's only in Ireland that we see local authority boundaries as sacred lines, set down through the ages since time immemorial...

Cabaal wrote: »

The ORR is a joke, its twice the road quality and size/width of the Kilkenny City ORR (which has a 100km limit) yet it 60km....its insane!

What's that got to do with the price of eggs? There are stupid speed limits all over the country! For God's sake you can do a legal 100 km/h around blind bends near Lukeswell and Ennisnag, so I'd hardly be holding Kilkenny up as some sort of shining example.

Cabaal wrote: »

Waterford CC now want the benefits of what was done in Ferrybank without first putting in all the work (easier for somebody else to do it)

What has Kilkenny County Council ever done in Ferrybank? Waterford City Council has been building council houses there, outside its own area, because KCC has been neglecting the needs of the people who live there.

KCC only ever showed any interest in the area when WCC proposed the boundary extension.

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years.

What development levies? They've already been paid.

As for commercial rates, why shouldn't the city council benefit? The people of Ferrybank mostly go to school, work, college, etc. in Waterford. They drive on Waterford's streets. Why shouldn't their rates go back to the city on which they depend?

Cabaal

I think the only way to be 100% sure and fair in relation to Waterford's apparent 'want' to take Kilkenny land is to actually allow the residents in the affected area to vote if they want to allow Waterford to do so.

If the residents vote that they don't then the matter should be ended, if they vote they want to be part of Waterford then leave them do so.

However until such a situation happens and the actual people living in these areas get to all have their say in such a way as a vote this matter will continue to be brought up and opened like a can of worms every so often.

The very fact that you don't exactly hear the residents in these areas shouting that they want to be part of Waterford should give people a very good hint that they simply don't want to be, no matter what people might say regarding Kilkenny neglecting them.

I';m sure if Kilkenny was neglecting them they'd jump at the chance to be part of Waterford.....but then they are not

soldering iron, don't you think a vote would be a fair way of settling this?

trishw78

People have already made there opinions clear on this. They don't want to be part of Waterford, their reasons are there own.

soldering iron

alpha2zulu wrote: »

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

This is just Parish pump politics, this is just very narrow minded thinking, the city if it is to develop most has a balance area.Limerick city sufferes from the same GAA flag followers who believe that there is somer difference between counties.

The myriad of reasons are not specfic enough , please inform me of this myraid of reasons.

mike65

No, go north. It makes sense, Ferrybank would have been developed better and quicker if it were within the city limts. KCC have shown little interest historicaly and thats to be seen in the infrastructure of the south of the county.

Cabaal

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Overnight we would invariably see a 60kph limit suddenly plonked on the new bypass on the grounds of it being under Waterford City Council control! Just look at the ORR.

The ORR is a joke, its twice the road quality and size/width of the Kilkenny City ORR (which has a 100km limit) yet it 60km....its insane!

Its worth noting that the Kilkenny ORR also has lighting and paths just like the Waterford ORR so why the hell is Waterford limiting it to such a slow speed?

alpha2zulu wrote: »

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

Spot on,
Waterford CC now want the benefits of what was done in Ferrybank without first putting in all the work (easier for somebody else to do it), Waterford CC are also not short for land that can be developed....develope towards the Cork road direction and you'll be fine

alpha2zulu

soldering iron wrote: »

This is something that has to be achieved, in the interest of the city it is very important for the region.why else would the council have put forward it plan's to extent to bondary.

I can think of a myriad of reasons to be honest.Most of all I'm sure Waterford CC would give their hen teeth to get their hands on the rates and developemnt levys from the expansion of Ferrybank in recent years. Its not exactly the case that theirs a shortage of development space within the current city limits at the moment.

soldering iron

alpha2zulu wrote: »

Besides the can of worms issue and possible trolling,I dont think a lot of South Kilkenny people will appreciate suddenly been governed by a Sinn Fein/Labour/Workers party commie alliance...thanks but no thanks:rolleyes:.

Overnight we would invariably see a 60kph limit suddenly plonked on the new bypass on the grounds of it being under Waterford City Council control! Just look at the ORR.

This is something that has to be achieved, in the interest of the city it is very important for the region.why else would the council have put forward it plan's to extent to bondary,there is more to the world than parish pump politics.we are a country , not counties, is there no reason other than black & amber and blue & white.this in it's self is no reason to stop the growth of a regional capital waterford City.

alpha2zulu

soldering iron wrote: »

Border extension

2: The extension of the city to incorporate all the peoples that use the cities amenities, In other word the movement of the city boundary north .

This should be a major objective of the Present Council; all lands with in the Waterford By-pass should come under the control of the Waterford city council.

Besides the can of worms issue and possible trolling,I dont think a lot of South Kilkenny people will appreciate suddenly been governed by a Sinn Fein/Labour/Workers party commie alliance...thanks but no thanks:rolleyes:.

Overnight we would invariably see a 60kph limit suddenly plonked on the new bypass on the grounds of it being under Waterford City Council control! Just look at the ORR.

Cabaal

Trying to take land....yeah this will end well