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Cheap road tax to go in the budget?

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  • 22-10-2009 9:37pm
    #1
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭


    I heard today from a very reliable source the cheap road tax brought in by the greens is to be scrapped in the budget, did anyone else hear about it?


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    #2
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    junkyard wrote: »
    I heard today from a very reliable source the cheap road tax brought in by the greens is to be scrapped in the budget, did anyone else hear about it?
    We don't have a road tax at present, maybe they're introducing one?


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    #3
    Absurdum
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,445 ✭✭✭Absurdum


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    We don't have a road tax at present, maybe they're introducing one?

    yeah he definitely didn't mean motor tax:rolleyes:


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    #4
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    I had heard a while ago that they planned to play around with the VRT bands because its costing them a fortune. Nothing would suprise me with that shower. And the Greens seem to roll over for anything so even the Eco ticket is being lost. Maybe they'll agree to it if FF ban red noses on clowns or something f**king ridiculous like that. Twats :mad:


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    #5
    w123
    Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭w123


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    We don't have a road tax at present, maybe they're introducing one?

    Wow! a(nother) master of wit and repartee.

    Why bother?

    Beaten to it by absurdum


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    #6
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    Wouldn't be the least bit surprised

    My money would be on the emission band becoming the multiplication factor for the cc


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    #7
    NewDubliner
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,615 ✭✭✭NewDubliner


    Absurdum wrote: »
    yeah he definitely didn't mean motor tax:rolleyes:
    Road tax would be a good way gear the expenditure on roads to those who use them. It would help cut down on unnecessary journeys and encourage use of public transport.

    It's not such a crazy notion, if it's charged fairly. We'd need to find a way to accurately track and record car use though.


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    #8
    CrowdedHouse
    Registered Users Posts: 6,828 ✭✭✭CrowdedHouse


    Great, I bought a 3 litre car today

    Seven Worlds will Collide



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    #9
    mickdw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,313 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    I can see big increases for sure. I mean they never thought that your typical run of the mill 2.0 diesel would be in the €150 bracket. I can see a tweeking of the bands to take everything out of the lowest band to give the manufacturers something further to aim for with cars over 140 g co2 costing maybe €500 instead of about €300 now.

    What about vrt then though?


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    #10
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭junkyard


    NewDubliner wrote: »
    Road tax would be a good way gear the expenditure on roads to those who use them. It would help cut down on unnecessary journeys and encourage use of public transport.

    It's not such a crazy notion, if it's charged fairly. We'd need to find a way to accurately track and record car use though.

    We don't all live in Dublin you know, with Luas, Dart and rent a bike, some of us have to drive to work where there are absolutely no choices where transport is required. Also, only a very small percentage of our road taxes end up going back into the roads. Bad government management has created the mess we're in now and will be in for decades to come, not only do I blame Fianna Fail for this mess but everyone who voted for them.


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    #11
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    The good news: it will shut up those green loudmouths who go on about their prius and low motor tax!
    The bad news: my 2.5L petrol will porobably go up also but maybe it will be worth it given the above!


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    #12
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭junkyard


    The scrappage scheme is to be reintroduced too, a bit late in the day now when most of the garages have shut up shop and the banks aren't lending money either so I think they missed the boat there too. I spoke to a friend of mine recently in car finance and he told me that if someone wants to borrow a large sum to buy a car they have to come up with half the total price of the new car in either cash or trade-in before they'll lend money as they were losing too much money if they have to repossess the car if the person defaults on their payments.


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    #13
    Saab Ed
    Closed Accounts Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭Saab Ed


    junkyard wrote: »
    The scrappage scheme is to be reintroduced too, a bit late in the day now when most of the garages have shut up shop and the banks aren't lending money either so I think they missed the boat there too. I spoke to a friend of mine recently in car finance and he told me that if someone wants to borrow a large sum to buy a car they have to come up with half the total price of the new car in either cash or trade-in before they'll lend money as they were losing too much money if they have to repossess the car if the person defaults on their payments.


    But I have to say the end is sight. The repos are slowing down , the manufacturers are reducing their prices and the people who didnt run away with themselevs in the good years and continued to spend their money wisely are starting to come out of their shell and buy the bargains that are out there at the minute. Just like in 2006 when the Taxi men were giving the entire country property advice it was a sure sign that the bubble was about to burst ( and the FF government didnt see it ) now the average Joe is saying things like " its only going to get worse before it gets better" , again a sure sign things are on the up because the general public and this dumb ass bunch of plain stupid ar$ewipes in the dail are a year behind on everything.


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    #14
    Owen
    Registered Users Posts: 12,683 ✭✭✭✭Owen


    I've heard the same about financing Junkyard. Large deposits, and people are also now required to produce statements, wage slips, etc, whereas before a library card could get you 30k.


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    #15
    Tipsy Mac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,559 ✭✭✭Tipsy Mac


    I'd say a 5-10% rise across the board. The scrappage is unlikely to bring in much at all, I doubt the any large amount of people with a 10 year old car is realistically in a position to walk into a dealer and buy a new car.


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    #16
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    kbannon wrote: »
    The good news: it will shut up those green loudmouths who go on about their prius and low motor tax!
    At only 92g of CO2, not likely.

    Hybrids also get a healthy VRT rebate. That might go, but again, not likely.

    You're right tho. Your 2.5 litre is guaranteed to go up :D


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    #17
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    JHMEG wrote: »
    At only 92g of CO2, not likely.

    Hybrids also get a healthy VRT rebate. That might go, but again, not likely.

    You're right tho. Your 2.5 litre is guaranteed to go up :D

    I'll wager all the fake 'green' cars go up. Way up. I do think the Hybrid rebate will go, now that they have given their blessing to the Renault/Nissan plug-in.

    What I'm wondering about it is cars on the old cc regime. They are currently very punitively taxed, for no good reason, so it'll be interesting to see what gives.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #18
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    galwaytt wrote: »
    I'll wager all the fake 'green' cars go up. Way up.

    You need to define fake green. To me that means large diesel cars that get almost miraculous CO2 figures. If that's what you mean I agree. There was particular consternation in Leinster house when the 520D came down by over 8 grand with the new VRT regime and almost made BMW the the 2nd biggest selling marque in Ireland.


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    #19
    rabbitinlights
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭rabbitinlights


    I'm just about to buy either a 2.2 or 3.0 Petrol, you think it would be a good bet to buy a full years tax now?


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    #20
    junkyard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,579 ✭✭✭junkyard


    It's the "fake green" ones are the ones that are being targeted from what I heard. It was a stupid f**king idea in the first place anyway, it decimated the motor industry in this country. Thats the problem when you put people in charge of things they know absolutely f**k all about. I wouldn't loan this government a flat screwdriver knowing the damage they'd do with it.:rolleyes:


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    #21
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,183 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    rabbitinlights wrote: »
    I'm just about to buy either a 2.2 or 3.0 Petrol, you think it would be a good bet to buy a full years tax now?
    Petrol tax definitely won't go down, it will presumably go up so if you are going to buy one then tax it ASAP.


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    #22
    rabbitinlights
    Registered Users Posts: 4,003 ✭✭✭rabbitinlights


    Whats the budget date?


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    #23
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    rabbitinlights wrote: »
    I'm just about to buy either a 2.2 or 3.0 Petrol, you think it would be a good bet to buy a full years tax now?

    A full year's tax is always cheaper than half or quarter, so it worth doing anyway.


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    #24
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    JHMEG wrote: »
    You need to define fake green. To me that means large diesel cars that get almost miraculous CO2 figures. If that's what you mean I agree. There was particular consternation in Leinster house when the 520D came down by over 8 grand with the new VRT regime and almost made BMW the the 2nd biggest selling marque in Ireland.

    Fake Green ? That's easy - any new car on a pittance roadtax, that's what. To think a child can understand that it takes more CO2 to produce a new car than an existing one uses over an enormous time period is obvious. There's nothing green about it. Maybe if we had NO cars, and wanted some, it'd make sense - but we do, and it doesn't.

    Don't get me wrong - I'm all for cheap tax, what I'm against is a lopsided one based on a false premise. That it penalises those who aren't buying new, and puts 1000's of people out of work is just a frickin' crime, plain and simple.

    rabbitinlights wrote: »
    I'm just about to buy either a 2.2 or 3.0 Petrol, you think it would be a good bet to buy a full years tax now?
    ..indeed. But I always tax a car just before the budget -that way you get almost a full year on the 'old' rate, and dodge the new one for a while. I know, pedantic, but I'm grasping at straws here.......I need to.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #25
    paddy cork
    Registered Users Posts: 64 ✭✭paddy cork


    car tax should be scrapped and added onto the price of fuels and this would be our so called neutral carbon tax, so that the more you drive the more you pay and if you drive no miles (no carbon)you dont pay a road tax.


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    #26
    JHMEG
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,686 ✭✭✭JHMEG


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Fake Green ? That's easy - any new car on a pittance roadtax, that's what.
    I do agree with that.

    BTW, that Veyron is long gone from Galway, and was owned by a Kildare man :) (I haven't been in it or anything, but I know the owner's brother)


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    #27
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    paddy cork wrote: »
    car tax should be scrapped and added onto the price of fuels and this would be our so called neutral carbon tax, so that the more you drive the more you pay and if you drive no miles (no carbon)you dont pay a road tax.

    yes, but wishful thinking I'm afraid. Imagine if we then started to use our cars just when we wanted, as distinct from trying to exercise our paid-for-tax at every opportunity (e.g take the bus, walk, cycle, etc)? Exactly, their income might go down so cue............another tax to replace it. This is a lose-lose proposition, and it has nothing to do with being Green, the Environment or anything remotely connected.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #28
    peasant
    Registered Users Posts: 17,819 ✭✭✭✭peasant


    A reading from the book of taxation:

    The motorist can not go on strike, the motorist has no union, the motorist comes from all parties ...therefore thou shalt hit him as hard as thou canst at any time thou needest more revenue.
    He shall squeal and he shall squirm but thou shalst ignore him and he shall pay.


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    #29
    netwhizkid
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,558 ✭✭✭netwhizkid


    People will just stop paying road tax, I know a guy who hasn't paid it in 4 years and was caught twice, paid the €80 fine both times and considers it good value for money!


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    #30
    leeroybrown
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,563 ✭✭✭leeroybrown


    junkyard wrote: »
    Also, only a very small percentage of our road taxes end up going back into the roads..
    It's not 'road' tax, it's motor tax. It's a tax on owning a motor vehicle as opposed to a tax to specifically pay for roads. Motor tax all goes directly into the Local Government Fund which in turn is provided to local authorities to spend on local projects including the provision of local and regional roads.

    I'd expect them to fiddle the rates a little as the heavy shift towards low band vehicles has left them short of cash which the exchequer can't afford to top-up in the local government fund.


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    #31
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,761 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    leeroybrown wrote: »
    It's not 'road' tax, it's motor tax. It's a tax on owning a motor vehicle as opposed to a tax to specifically pay for roads. Motor tax all goes directly into the Local Government Fund which in turn is provided to local authorities to spend on local projects including the provision of local and regional roads.

    I'd expect them to fiddle the rates a little as the heavy shift towards low band vehicles has left them short of cash which the exchequer can't afford to top-up in the local government fund.

    No it's not - that's what it has become, but that was not the purpose of it. It was designed to get funds to 'metal' the roads, and pay for an infrastructure that had to be built to support the burgeoning vehicle population, which, ironically, the CO2 unfriendly Methane-generator's (aka, horses....), never contributed to ('cos people didn't mind walking in muck and ****e) early in the last century, and the tax was designed that larger (aka heavier) vehicles paid most. The Netherlands still 'taxes' it's cars based on weight, for a not-dissimilar reason.

    The tax became a horse-power tax, then a cc tax when they found HP outmoded. CC became a fashion dead-end and CO2 is just the latest attempt to 'do it up'.

    All they've done since is find excuses to pretend it's not a 'road tax', so they can justify their spending it elsewhere.

    What I want to know is - when the oil runs out, where the **** do they think they'll get the replacement for the 'road/motor/wtf' tax ?

    ...oh, sure, 6 out of 10 of the **** will be on 'sick leave' that day, no doubt...........:mad:

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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