question on bulking and fat.

curadh

hi, just have a question about bulking. Ive been eating more calories per day than i need etc and am putting on weight however im getting fat around areas like the hips sides and belly. Just wondering if i start doing crunches and oblique work will it have any effect on the fat or because im bulking is there nothing i can do. Any pointers?

TommyKnocker

Hi There

Abdominal exercises will have little or no impact on fat gained on any part of your body.

Keeping body fat % low is all down to diet (80%) and exercise (20%).

What foods are you getting your extra calories from?

Post up a typical day's diet and also what your exercise routine is like and folks may be able to give some constructive critism and advice on where you may be going wrong.


Best Regards,

M

Gaz

Are you eating cleanly ? "Bulking" is not an excuse to pig out on anything.

If you are eating clean and getting regualr weight sessions done then fat gain should be minimal.

discombobulate

Just to hijack this thread. Decided to start bulking myself. Plan is to eat my normal diet weetabix, sandwich, large smoothie, dinner (meat and spuds etc.) in evening along with about 3 litres of milk and nuts.

Would this be an ok way to go about it? Wouldn't be able to eat enough food to hit high cals with my appetite but think I can manage this.

squod

discombobulate wrote: »

Just to hijack this thread. Decided to start bulking myself. Plan is to eat my normal diet weetabix, sandwich, large smoothie, dinner (meat and spuds etc.) in evening along with about 3 litres of milk and nuts.

Would this be an ok way to go about it? Wouldn't be able to eat enough food to hit high cals with my appetite but think I can manage this.

3 litres of milk, thats alot of milk! Have you though about a Whey shake instead? Or a couple of eggs even? I bluddy hate milk, maybe I'm biased.
A couple of shakes would be as cheap and you'd smell less like sour milk IMO.

discombobulate

Lol i'd have to eat a couple of dozen eggs. Milk is probably my favourite dring but that could change if I keep this up. Is the bad breadth your talking about there a fact or just for the laugh?

To get all the milk calories from whey i'd be seriously going overboard on the protein

cmyk

The forum today is proudly brought to you by the dairy council of Ireland

discombobulate

:rolleyes:

At least add a bit to thread if your going to be making jokes smart arse. Milk is recommended for bulking in a lot of different places.

cmyk

It was a lighthearted comment due to the fact there is another thread going into more detail right below this one.....my advice therefore is to take a read of that one.

I'm well aware of the 'milk for bulking' theory, I'm trying to add mass at the moment but not down the milk route, plenty of arguments for and against.

Roper

You're going to put on fat. At the moment I'm trying to put some mass on and my plan is as follows:

1) Train a lot with very little cardio
2) Never pass a McDonald's

discombobulate

Roper wrote: »

You're going to put on fat. At the moment I'm trying to put some mass on and my plan is as follows:

1) Train a lot with very little cardio
2) Never pass a McDonald's

Doing starting strength so training is ok and have cut down on cardio. Is there much difference though in just eating whatever like a mother****er and eating "good" food the same if all i'm worried about for the moment is putting on muscle (I know there'll be fat too) as my plan is to put on the muscle and then cut fat in about 2 months time when I finish the programme i'm on.

TommyKnocker

discombobulate wrote: »

Doing starting strength so training is ok and have cut down on cardio. Is there much difference though in just eating whatever like a mother****er and eating "good" food the same if all i'm worried about for the moment is putting on muscle (I know there'll be fat too) as my plan is to put on the muscle and then cut fat in about 2 months time when I finish the programme i'm on.

Just my 2 cents worth, but why not eat clean, but with a calorie surplus and put on less fat then "just eating whatever like a mother****er" and then have an easier time getting rid of the fat in two months?

discombobulate

B-Builder wrote: »

Just my 2 cents worth, but why not eat clean, but with a calorie surplus and put on less fat then "just eating whatever like a mother****er" and then have an easier time getting rid of the fat in two months?

Thanks. That was my point. I wouldn't be able to eat 3000 calories worth of clean food a day but is the milk and nuts a good way to go about making up the rest after eating?

curadh

popular prob it would seem.

okay so I'm 5'8, 11.5 stone. deadlift 90kg x5 bench 60 x5 squat 85 x5.

Typical diet

corn flakes toast pnut butter.

weight gainer shake (690 cals)

ham and cheese sandwich, some fruit / or a plate of pasta

dinner - pasta chicken/ sausages n potato n beans/ rice n chicken

weight gainer shake

bed.

If I get a chance to have more food during the day I'' have something else.

Any idea what kind of calories is in all that?
I was led to believe the only way to get bigger faster is to pack on the pounds.

discombobulate

Bit off the topic but what shake do you use and how does it taste as thinking of getting one. Looks about 3000+ cals to me. Theres sites out there that'll break it down more exact though

kevpants

Gaz wrote: »

Are you eating cleanly ? "Bulking" is not an excuse to pig out on anything.

If you are eating clean and getting regualr weight sessions done then fat gain should be minimal.

Disagree with this. The eating clean while gaining muscle theory is always backed up by saying eating crap will result in loads of fat gain. There's a kernel of truth there but eating clean results in little or no muscle gain. And the clean eating theorist are smaller and weaker than the McDonalds loyalty card holders

discombobulate wrote: »

Just to hijack this thread. Decided to start bulking myself. Plan is to eat my normal diet weetabix, sandwich, large smoothie, dinner (meat and spuds etc.) in evening along with about 3 litres of milk and nuts.

Would this be an ok way to go about it? Wouldn't be able to eat enough food to hit high cals with my appetite but think I can manage this.

Overdosing on milk is a great way to add size. Keep it up.

squod wrote: »

3 litres of milk, thats alot of milk! Have you though about a Whey shake instead? Or a couple of eggs even? I bluddy hate milk, maybe I'm biased.
A couple of shakes would be as cheap and you'd smell less like sour milk IMO.

Whey doesn't compare to milk. Whey is just a cheap protein source. Milk has so much more than whey. Calories, fat, carbs, protein...

It's quite literally beef growing juice.

discombobulate wrote: »

Doing starting strength so training is ok and have cut down on cardio. Is there much difference though in just eating whatever like a mother****er and eating "good" food the same if all i'm worried about for the moment is putting on muscle (I know there'll be fat too) as my plan is to put on the muscle and then cut fat in about 2 months time when I finish the programme i'm on.

Good food is overrated. Bit annoyed at the food that gets the label "good food". Chick peas are not a good food in my opinion!

B-Builder wrote: »

Just my 2 cents worth, but why not eat clean, but with a calorie surplus and put on less fat then "just eating whatever like a mother****er" and then have an easier time getting rid of the fat in two months?

You'll put on more muscle not eating clean. Clean gains are a marketing myth. In any case the extra muscle from the crappy diet will make it easier to lose fat at a later point anyway if that's what you need.

discombobulate wrote: »

Thanks. That was my point. I wouldn't be able to eat 3000 calories worth of clean food a day but is the milk and nuts a good way to go about making up the rest after eating?

Yes.

My two cents on this is the people who decide to add mass and hit the burgers and milk and then just get fat and stay weak always blame the diet. It's not the diet. You have to train too!

Anyone who still has a bicep day in their routine shouldn't be drinking 3 litres of milk a day. You eat to recover from hard training.

The key is to periodize your training. If you set your mind to getting bigger and stronger and eat tonnes to get there, don't be distracted by some fat gain and think "Oooh better add some cardio and cut back on the food". Set a strength or size goal or timescale and stick to it. You can assess where you want to go afterwards.

This forum is full of questions asking about how to get big mushkles while keeping a low bf%. There's no answer to those questions other than those provided by fitness industry profiteers.

discombobulate

Thanks for that Kev. Makes sense. I started off wanting to do as everyone starting put on muscle and lose fat at the same time but quickly found out that can't happen. 5 months later i'm the same weight but a lot stronger so i've gained strength presumably lost fat but muscle mass isn't too impressive.

I'm just happy its only 1.39 for 2 litres of milk in the local shop!

I asked in the supplements thread about weight gaining supplements but no answer yet so if anyone reading here would recommend any would be maybe online for cheap that taste ok.

Anything else as easy as milk or nuts to take? I work away from home quite a bit so meals would be breakfast, lunch and dinner but hard to get anything else as can't cook etc.

J.S. Pill

kevpants wrote: »

Disagree with this. The eating clean while gaining muscle theory is always backed up by saying eating crap will result in loads of fat gain. There's a kernel of truth there but eating clean results in little or no muscle gain. And the clean eating theorist are smaller and weaker than the McDonalds loyalty card holders

Agreed

I think a lot depends on how you define 'clean'. The popular definition tends to equate clean with low fat - i.e. eat chicken, brown rice & vegetables 6 times a day. I eat a lot more fats than I did last year and have kept refined carbs to a minimum; any muscle gains I have made so far have been accompanied with far less fat gain. My diet probably wouldn't be considered very clean by popular definitions as it contains a lot of mince meat and burgers!! (and beer but that's another story). I wouldn't consider my diet to be a bulking one as such, I'm just trying to gain muscle steadily while trying to maintain as much of my hard earned leanness as I can. My point is, it might be worth paying more attention to fat and carb ratios and their role in a 'clean' bulking diet.

Now I have been reading this, so I'm just a little biased against refined carbs right now...

Moral of the story, go for the double quarter pounder with cheese and don't go near them twisty fries.

discombobulate

Not sure about refined carbs etc. bu are you basically saying heavy on the meat easy on the spuds and bread?

Roper

Heavy on everything.

To clarify my position, if you hold a piece of food up top a piece of paper and it turns clear, then it's your window to weight gain. If you're interested in a good read, pick up a copy of Bad Science. Some great stuff on "nutrition" and "healthy foods" in it.

The problem is that most people don't have a bull's notion of what they're doing, so bulking becomes this diet of ****e and lots of shakes of CytoExplodeMaxProGainMassMealSkipper (8 times a day for HELLACIOUS PUMP!) and **** all training. Or they do the other way and it's all chicken with the skin and flavour removed and they get the hoover at it to remove any trace salt they may have picked up from the water they steamed it with. One guy gets fat and the other gets nothing at best.

For example, today for breakfast I had porridge pancakes, lots of them, and a whey shake. I had a snack of a tub of humous at about 12 then lunch of a beef wrap with as much as I could fit in it. I ate a large bag of roasted peanuts at 3/4pm and for dinner in my house we had roast chickens. My son and wife shared one and I had the other plus the bits they left. I just came home and had some chocolate, a shake and some peanuts. Training was a R2 from Iprograms in the morning with some rehab work in the evening. I'll do another repetition session tomorrow evening. According to Fitday that puts me at about 4700kCals for the day, and I can't find humous on there and I haven't included the chocolate I had with my coffee but I think their chicken might have been bigger than the bird I ate so maybe it evens out.

To gain I'm doing no cardio sessions whatsoever, but I would suggest that anyone interested in being generally fit for sport should keep some in. I find that Muay Thai, MMA and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu keep my heart and lungs operational enough and I would probably gain faster if it wasn't for doing so much of that.

Can you clean bulk? Yes, I think you can, but it's slow and it requires a lot of planning, living like a monk and eating well, and by well I mean that there are lots and lots of restirctions. This is basically a restriction free diet that doesn't just involve crap food, it just involves any food. My nightmare, my absolute worst nightmare would be going to a restaurant and looking for the low carb, high protein meal on a night where I was supposed to be enjoying myself. I know this is my nightmare because I've lived it- I've been starving myself for about 50% of every year since I was 15 so I could make a variety of weight classes. It's no fun at all, but it was a necessary evil so that I could perform better. I can't imagine why anyone would want to restrict themselves in the same way for something so insignificant as an aesthetic goal. But each to their own I suppose.

Hanley

kevpants wrote: »

Disagree with this. The eating clean while gaining muscle theory is always backed up by saying eating crap will result in loads of fat gain. There's a kernel of truth there but eating clean results in little or no muscle gain. And the clean eating theorist are smaller and weaker than the McDonalds loyalty card holders

TESTIFY!!

Overdosing on milk is a great way to add size. Keep it up.

You tell em brother pants!

Good food is overrated. Bit annoyed at the food that gets the label "good food". Chick peas are not a good food in my opinion!

Be all eating fcukin lentils and sh!t next...

You'll put on more muscle not eating clean. Clean gains are a marketing myth. In any case the extra muscle from the crappy diet will make it easier to lose fat at a later point anyway if that's what you need.

This can't be true....??? No.... wait.....

My two cents on this is the people who decide to add mass and hit the burgers and milk and then just get fat and stay weak always blame the diet. It's not the diet. You have to train too!

Anyone who still has a bicep day in their routine shouldn't be drinking 3 litres of milk a day. You eat to recover from hard training.

On fire tonight dude!

The key is to periodize your training. If you set your mind to getting bigger and stronger and eat tonnes to get there, don't be distracted by some fat gain and think "Oooh better add some cardio and cut back on the food". Set a strength or size goal or timescale and stick to it. You can assess where you want to go afterwards.

Again, this man speaks the truth.

Like FFS I went up to a fat cnut 110kg, gained a ton of muscle, got ridiculously strong and have hit 98kg again within about 4 months without all that much hassle. It's pretty frickin simple. I spent a year going from around 100kg to 110kg, hit HUGE PR's and gained loads of muscle, and now I'm back under my original starting weight with the same strength as I had at 110kg. Sure I looked like crap for a good few months while doing it, and I do regret that, but at the end of the day it's all done and I'm a lot bigger and stronger now than I woulda been if I was scared of the golden arches.

discombobulate

Nice write up Roper! Thanks for the advice.

Quick question. When you say roasted nuts do you mean like dry roasted peanuts? Bought a bag of mixed nuts today and found them horrible

discombobulate

Just picked up a cheap copy of Bad Science there too. I'll tell ya lads this website costs me more money than any girlfriend ever could. Between this forum and bargain alerts my wages are gone before i'm paid every month!

As another aside if I aim for 3000cals a day what sort of gains should I roughly expect i.e. fast jump in weight etc. or slow steady? I'm 5'10 72kg doing a 5 x 5 program

squod

discombobulate wrote: »

. Milk is probably my favourite dring but that could change if I keep this up. Is the bad breadth your talking about there a fact or just for the laugh?

There's a story behind it, so I've worked with all kinds of folks. ........ Chinese burd then tells me yeah, Irish people smell like sour milk. It was one of the first things she noticed when he arrived. Oh yeah, she also told me white folks generally had bigger cocks. All swings and roundabouts huh?

Gaz

I agree you will put on alot of muscle if you eat everything in sight but for me , fatloss is such a pain in the ass that the clean (well cleaner) approach to putting on muscle is preferable .... I hate cardio.

I suppose it also comes down to your reasons , if its for sport gains then go for it ... if its to look good naked then I think the cleaner approach is probably better.

discombobulate

squod wrote: »

There's a story behind it, so I've worked with all kinds of folks. ........ Chinese burd then tells me yeah, Irish people smell like sour milk. It was one of the first things she noticed when he arrived. Oh yeah, she also told me white folks generally had bigger cocks. All swings and roundabouts huh?

cmyk

Anyone any views on skimmed milk to reign in a few less calories? Less fat and carbs but slightly more protein?

I'm getting good amount of calories through 'clean' foods, but I'd like to give the milk a go and see if it makes a difference without overloading on too many calories. Lifts are all increasing but at a slower pace now, it would be an interesting experiment.

Money Shot

Roper wrote: »

My nightmare, my absolute worst nightmare would be going to a restaurant and looking for the low carb, high protein meal on a night where I was supposed to be enjoying myself. I know this is my nightmare because I've lived it- I've been starving myself for about 50% of every year since I was 15 so I could make a variety of weight classes. It's no fun at all, but it was a necessary evil so that I could perform better. I can't imagine why anyone would want to restrict themselves in the same way for something so insignificant as an aesthetic goal. But each to their own I suppose.

Excellent post. Hilarious when I hear recreational gym goers forcing cottage cheese down their throats or setting the alarm in the middle of the night to chug back a shake.

hardtrainer

I've never believed in the eat clean to get big approach. It doesn't work, or at least it never has for me. And we're all a little different so there's always gonna have to be a little trial and error before you find what works for you.

...But, I have spoken to (and indeed seen with my own eyes) so many guys who only made real gains in size when they relaxed their attitude to 'clean' foods and just began to eat big. And eating big means eating BIG. The best way to describe the diet is the seefood diet. If you see it, eat it.

I would caution though, refined carbs, as has been mentioned already, are generally the work of the devil. Potatos are not refined carbs. Potatos are your friend.
Can't recommend Bad Science by Ben Goldacre enough. It should be prescribed reading for everyone. EVERYONE!

And milk is definitely your friend. As are eggs. And none of this eggwhites thing. Most of the nutrition in eggs is found in the yolk. Basically the yolk of an egg is like a multivitamin. Why would anyone throw that away and then take a multivitamin tablet (don't get me started on the ridiculous and obsessive use of multivitamins and worse 1000s% of RDA...again, read Bad Science).

Re: question about slimline milk. I don't tolerate milk fats too well and full fat milk = aggravated breathing. But if you can drink full fat or even low fat milk drink plenty and watch your muscles grow.

As an aside, there are some folks who eat whatever they want, grow big and still have low bodyfat. These people are mutants. I wish I was one of them. For the rest of us mere mortals, a little fat (or a lot sometimes) comes with getting big. But the bigger your muscles get the faster that fat is burned away after bulking is done. I just keep bulking to this time of the year when the possibility of removing my clothes in public is gone. And just think of all that food you get to eat with no guilt at christmas!!

puntosporting

This is my new fav thread loving this !

Roper

discombobulate wrote: »

Nice write up Roper! Thanks for the advice.

Quick question. When you say roasted nuts do you mean like dry roasted peanuts? Bought a bag of mixed nuts today and found them horrible

Dry Roasted. just fyi KP dry roasted nuts are about 2 bills cheaper per 300g bag in Lidl. Go Lidl.

If this thread does nothing else at least more people will read Bad Science.

cardio,shoot me

are dry roasted peanuts not like ridicolously bad for you?

Roper

You have the teenager's penchant for exaggeration and superlatives used out of context. Next you'll be telling me how 'awesome' paper is... like.

No, smoking rocks of crack through a glass pipe is "ridiculously" bad for you. Dry roasted peanuts are somewhat bad for you when eaten in great quantities, like I do. I like them however, and I'm almost entirely certain that I will not go to an early grave because I eat them.

randomguy88

Ok, so you're all saying if you want to get bigger and stronger just eat anything and everything. But what if I'm already a bit flabby, yet not as muscular as I'd like to be. I wanna get bigger but I definitely don't wanna get any fatter. I'm 85kg, but nearly all of that is in my beastly thighs. So basically I'm doomed to either becoming a skinny bastard or becoming a big fat bastard, before I can be a ripped bastard?

cardio,shoot me

calm down roper, This is the internet, exxagerations are key to any arguement. I just thought the other kind of peanut was better for you, the one that isnt dry ?

g'em

I'm quickly coming the conculsion that the whole notion of, and concepts behind, getting really big and not caring about the fat that goes with that are just alien in nature.

Maybe it's because I'm a girl but I just don't get it

discombobulate

randomguy88 wrote: »

Ok, so you're all saying if you want to get bigger and stronger just eat anything and everything. But what if I'm already a bit flabby, yet not as muscular as I'd like to be. I wanna get bigger but I definitely don't wanna get any fatter. I'm 85kg, but nearly all of that is in my beastly thighs. So basically I'm doomed to either becoming a skinny bastard or becoming a big fat bastard, before I can be a ripped bastard?

Point I think is basically you can only do one or the other at a time. Build muscle or burn fat so key if you want to be big and muscly is to go through a cut of the fat, a build of muscle which will add a bit of fat back and then another cut which should end up in being bigger wih less fat.

Just back from the shop with anoher 4 litres of milk and litre of juice. Whatever happened to the milkman? Is there such thing anymore?

_JOE_

cardio,shoot me wrote: »

calm down roper, This is the internet, exxagerations are key to any arguement. I just thought the other kind of peanut was better for you, the one that isnt dry ?

You mean the salted one?

And Roper, fully agree with the dry roasted from lidl. i eat a bag every two days, they're addictive!

Fol20

discombobulate wrote: »

:rolleyes:

At least add a bit to thread if your going to be making jokes smart arse. Milk is recommended for bulking in a lot of different places.

Just out of interest..is milk unhealthy if its your primary drink..Not a fan of water,tea or coffee,and dont drink too much fizzy drinks however;i love my milk..id drink a minimum of 2l maybe 3 a day..im not trying to bulk up..im just wondering..im 6.3 btw

This thread confuses the sh*t out of me. I just don't get it.

That is all.

Bottle_of_Smoke

randomguy88 wrote: »

Ok, so you're all saying if you want to get bigger and stronger just eat anything and everything. But what if I'm already a bit flabby, yet not as muscular as I'd like to be. I wanna get bigger but I definitely don't wanna get any fatter. I'm 85kg, but nearly all of that is in my beastly thighs. So basically I'm doomed to either becoming a skinny bastard or becoming a big fat bastard, before I can be a ripped bastard?

So long as you train hard 3 times a week, have squats benches and deadlifts your muscles get bigger and the fat doesn't show so much.

My advice would be to build loads of muscle for a few months with a high calorie diet, make sure you're never hungry. Then when you have the muscle continue training but start eating a lo-gi diet. When you have lots of muscle your flab disappears rapidly on a normal 2500male/2000female calorie diet.

Ok but getting off the point of aesthetics and muscle gain here, is following the advice in this thread healthy for your heart and vital organs that you can't see ?

What about your arteries ?

mack32

nice article by Christian Thibaudeau on this topic, think someone posted it up here a while back

http://www.tmuscle.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html

Bottle_of_Smoke

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok but getting off the point of aesthetics and muscle gain here, is following the advice in this thread healthy for your heart and vital organs that you can't see ?

What about your arteries ?

not sure. Eating high calorie probably isn't that bad if you're doing lots of training. Less harful than the the amount an average irish person drinks.

Lo-GI is very healthy

bigstar

Deleted User wrote: »

Ok but getting off the point of aesthetics and muscle gain here, is following the advice in this thread healthy for your heart and vital organs that you can't see ?

What about your arteries ?

from a long term point of view, id say no. but its not meant to be long term. you eat to get bigger, when your bigger you go back to eating normally and healthily. same as losing weight, you dont cut cals forever.

6 months or so of bad eating isnt going to have catastrophic effects on your health imo, especially if your training hard. people eat crap and live sedentary lifestyles for years before any health issues arise, i dont see a short term diet change doing much to ya. just my 2c though, you can still gain weight with a healthy diet, just takes longer.

Roper

There seems to be some sort of idea here that eating a lot of claories equals eating a lot of ****e. It doesn't, it just so happens that calorie dense foods tend to be the ones that the gurus hate. Nuts are a prime example, take away the salt content of packets and nuts are great and you would be hard pressed to find a "health expert" who would slag off nuts. Yet nuts are extremely calorie dense, making them really bad for anyone trying to lose weight. There is no black and white here, though people wish there was.

The other factor is that there is also a lot of training going on to make sure the weight is going where it should- to my muskles- and not where it shouldn't- to my chins. If you're not doing the training in conjunction with the eating, you're going to get just plain fat.

Lastly, I actually don't expect my bodyfat to rise all that much in the next 6 weeks. I actually expect a rise early on, followed by a small drop and then a levelling off. It will take my body a week or two to get used to the new diet and training. I'm getting my skinfolds done on Monday morning and I'll post them on my blog and track them once per week. If I suddenly turn into Jim Royle anyone who thinks this is all terribly unhealthy can say I told you so.

EDIT: Just read the Low-GI comment. Try adding any mass with low GI!

mack32

mack32 wrote: »

nice article by Christian Thibaudeau on this topic, think someone posted it up here a while back

http://www.tmuscle.com/portal_includes/articles/2006/06-154-training.html

Brilliant article. I'd be more inclined to have this way of thinking.

enda_4

How detrimental is cardio to gaining mass? I find it near impossible to put on any weight so is it true that too much cardio hinders it. We're talking football training 1/2 nights a week and a game at the weekend.

itsallaboutheL

enda_4 wrote: »

How detrimental is cardio to gaining mass? I find it near impossible to put on any weight so is it true that too much cardio hinders it. We're talking football training 1/2 nights a week and a game at the weekend.

enda_4

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Good point, just eat more so!

MyPeopleDrankTheSoup

Roper wrote: »

There seems to be some sort of idea here that eating a lot of claories equals eating a lot of ****e. It doesn't, it just so happens that calorie dense foods tend to be the ones that the gurus hate. Nuts are a prime example, take away the salt content of packets and nuts are great and you would be hard pressed to find a "health expert" who would slag off nuts. Yet nuts are extremely calorie dense, making them really bad for anyone trying to lose weight. There is no black and white here, though people wish there was.

The other factor is that there is also a lot of training going on to make sure the weight is going where it should- to my muskles- and not where it shouldn't- to my chins. If you're not doing the training in conjunction with the eating, you're going to get just plain fat.

Lastly, I actually don't expect my bodyfat to rise all that much in the next 6 weeks. I actually expect a rise early on, followed by a small drop and then a levelling off. It will take my body a week or two to get used to the new diet and training. I'm getting my skinfolds done on Monday morning and I'll post them on my blog and track them once per week. If I suddenly turn into Jim Royle anyone who thinks this is all terribly unhealthy can say I told you so.

EDIT: Just read the Low-GI comment. Try adding any mass with low GI!

Thank you! When I first came on this forum looking for advice, everyone recommended nuts (ehhhh, they're the good fats blah blah) so I was trying to cut fat thinking I was great having a 400 or 500 calorie nut snack at night-time, devouring my hard fought deficit daily.