Brendan Drumm gets €70,000 bonus

Thirdfox

In three years our health service has moved from no. 28 in Europe to no. 13
source: Irish Times and EHCI - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/health/2009/0929/1224255433849.html

While I'm not satisfied with our health service, I would say that's a huge improvement.

"However, it said it was “particularly striking” that while HSE reforms were having a tangible outcome, the response from patients’ organisations was still negative.

EHCI director Dr Arne Bjornberg said: “Ireland has been climbing steadily in the EHCI. However, the Irish healthcare system seems to have a domestic ‘marketing’ problem."

AckwelFoley

walshb wrote: »

lamxavier, you just aren't getting it.

The HSE is a business. A business. It's no different than a lot of other businesses

How can you broadly say that a businessman, or leader can not make
it successful?

.

No its not a business.

Its government run service.

If it were a business, it would be closed a long time ago.

Its main objective is healthcare not profit.

Business is for profit.

brandon_flowers

snyper wrote: »

No its not a business.

Its government run service.

If it were a business, it would be closed a long time ago.

Its main objective is healthcare not profit.

Business is for profit.

We do not expect the HSE to make a profit or even try to be a profit making organisation but there needs to be some accountability for the costs. I spent a week in a room in CUH in 2006 and for every minute I was in the room the heating was on to the last. Imagine the bill in a place like CUH for the heating when that is the case.

In a business when the s*** hits the fan it flows upwards, in the public sector it seems when the s*** hits the fan we give bonuses to the boys at the top.

And to Iamxavier I remember reading Prof. Drumms targets when he got the job back in 05 and I can safely say they have not been achieved. Reduce A&E waiting lists to 30 minutes was the one that sticks in my mind. Id say 5 A&E units have been closed since, the man has a serious position in this country. If he was the right man for the job he would be lobbying for serious reform and staff cuts in the management side of the HSE where not one person was let go when the Regional Health Boards were amalgamated into the HSE.
Prof. Drumm I have no doubt s a brilliant doctor but he is not a Chief Executive. THerein lies the HUGE problem.

walshb

Sorry, but really, I don't give a flying **** what targets he or others on massive salaries reach. The problem is this gravy train and those at, or close to the top, riding it for every cent they can scrape from us. I don't mind paying any man or woman a fair rate for a fair job, but this and instances like this are a disgrace.

I wonder who sets the targets, are the ****ing things even properly scrutinized?
lamxavier ,how can you say he obviously reached his targets?
The targets must be pretty damn low if this is the case, but like everything
else in Ireland, we don't have targets, standards or accountability

As to the doctor vs the business man.

It's simple, all I want is a capable person, whether that be a business graduate or a medical graduate or any other graduate, OR, a non graduate. I want a leader, a leader of people, a person that gets things done, motivates and delegates.

I don't think Drumm is up to the task and the state of the service and misuse and waste of funds proves this. The red tape, bureaucracy, wheelings and dealings etc
do not instill confidence in me.

I also do not believe he deserved 70 thousand Euro from the pockets of
the taxpayer when he is already very very well paid. Show me major
improvements and results, and I may just consider it.

FlutterinBantam

tallaght01 wrote: »

The problem is a businessman doesn't understand the human side of health. And Drumm obviously understands balls-all about money.

It's not Drum's fault the health system is cack. But he can't fix it, and he shouldn't be getting bonuses for pretending to fix it.

Have to agree with you on that one.

Fault lies squarely in the intransigent attitude and unrealistic expectations of the workforce at all levels to effect any kind of meaningful change.

This intransigence is buttressed by the individual Unions who continue to promulgate unreasonable expectations amongst the staff and the end result is "progress" moving at glacial pace.

Ask yourself reader, why the privately run facilities seem to run perfectly and without the chaos of the Public facilities.?

Certainly there are different parameters and different moda operandi and workload, but until the workforce adopt a more co- operative attitude and show at least some willingness to embrace change and the Union leaders take a reality check,and take cognisance of public opinion, then I'm afraid we will have to muck along as we are doing now.

Paddycrumlinman

This type of stuff is sickening to be honest.

Even if this dude somewhat fixed anything in the health care system he does not deserve any bonus while people are laying in beds or are on waiting lists.

Not to mention the closures...

It's a horrible truth that bonus are paid and people die......

Why the fook are these people getting bonus while the lay person is getting their food from Tesco wheely bins?:eek:

We all really need to get to work and sort this out. We moan and complain but do nothing about this type of situation...

People like this and the **** bag politicians are laughing at the Irish people while flipping them off with the middle finger.... Snigger....

Why oh why can this happen?

FlutterinBantam

Paddycrumlinman wrote: »

This type of stuff is sickening to be honest.

Even if this dude somewhat fixed anything in the health care system he does not deserve any bonus while people are laying in beds or are on waiting lists.

Not to mention the closures...

It's a horrible truth that bonus are paid and people die......

Why the fook are these people getting bonus while the lay person is getting their food from Tesco wheely bins?:eek:

We all really need to get to work and sort this out. We moan and complain but do nothing about this type of situation...

People like this and the **** bag politicians are laughing at the Irish people while flipping them off with the middle finger.... Snigger....

Why oh why can this happen?

Paddy, the bonus apparently was paid for reducing the costs in the HSE.

I don't like the system either, but 70k is NOT going to change it.

The problem is that the place is costing too much, that means All the stakeholders need to take a reality check, work towards facilitating a system that has some chance of working.

It's not a 9 to5 operation as some of the health care professionals seem to think it is .

walshb

Flutterin, but why should he get 70 k from me and you and every other
taxpayer. That's a damn good wage to most people. And he is getting it as a reward?:mad: The bigger issue is the gravy train operating here. It's corrupt and immoral and just because the lowlifes legislate for it, it will
never make it right

techdiver

FlutterinBantam wrote: »

The problem is that the place is costing too much, that means All the stakeholders need to take a reality check, work towards facilitating a system that has some chance of working.

It's not a 9 to5 operation as some of the health care professionals seem to think it is .

Agreed, but I think the problem is that it will shortly become impossible to convince people to take a hit when the public perception is that the upper echelon are receiving these bonuses and politicians are milking the expenses system.

It has to happen, but we need this kind of crap to stop if we are to have any chance of convincing people.

enda1

walshb wrote: »

Flutterin, but why should he get 70 k from me and you and every other
taxpayer. That's a damn good wage to most people. And he is getting it as a reward?:mad: The bigger issue is the gravy train operating here. It's corrupt and immoral and just because the lowlifes legislate for it, it will
never make it right

If we want to get competent professionals to work for our top public service positions we have to entice them with some sort of competitive pay package.

walshb

enda1 wrote: »

If we want to get competent professionals to work for our top public service positions we have to entice them with some sort of competitive pay package.

So, 315 K with expenses isn't competitive?:eek: We also need to throw more money at these guys? That doesn't cut it at all. And, still, we don't have the best, if we did, then the HSE would be in fine form.

You are making it sound like we should now be held to ransom! We are being held to ransom, and this is what
needs to be changed, and damn quickly.

enda1

walshb wrote: »

So, 315 K with expenses isn't competitive?:eek: We also need to throw more money at these guys? That doesn't cut it at all. And, still, we don't have the best, if we did, then the HSE would be in fine form.

You are making it sound like we should now be held to ransom!

No 315K with expenses is not really competitive.

We would be lucky to get a CFO from an average size company for that.

As a CEO of a large organisation the drive to do well is multi-fold and one of the largest drivers is money! Share options and stock rewards are very common in the private sector. The best the state can do to compete is give some token bonus which is still going to be bemoaned by the "shareholders" - me and you.

For such a position where basically you will always lose and you will probably lose some friends over it too as health is such a contentious issue, the reward package needs to be substantial!

tallaght01

I think most medics would be very happy for a business person to run the HSE if he listened to the clinicians. BUT, we are drowning in bureaucracy already. Much of this is driven by non clinician management types. Go the UK, where the manager rules, and you don't get a better service. You get a service where doctors and nurses are ignored, and the targets are designed around political goals.

I think Drumm is a joker. He inspires no confidence whatsoever.

But it would be hard for anyone to change that system. There too many things outwith the control of the HSE for him to have a meaningful impact. He doesn't negotiate with unions. He doesn't formulate health policy.

Change in healthcare is traditionally driven. He runs the HSE. But people often overestimate the power of the HSE.

A decent health minister would make all the difference. But that doesn't look likely.

As a mere ple in the system, the only way I could see health changing is by removing the politics from it. When politicians are involved, we get short term targets, and any long term structural change goes out the window if it's not something to e boasted about at the next election.

It would never happen, but we could fix the system if the political parties agreed to let the health experts make a 15 year plan. Give them a budget to do this, and let them get on with it.

Don't change the budget every year, and don't change the priorities every year.

Countries take their central bank out of the control of government, so why not health.

It takes a long time to build a health system, which is what we really need to do.

Joey the lips

Personally I have no problem with his bonus. It was an agreed deal and if i made the deal i would want it. Its a performance related bonus so it proves he performed.

tallaght01

enda1 wrote: »

No 315K with expenses is not really competitive.

We would be lucky to get a CFO from an average size company for that.

As a CEO of a large organisation the drive to do well is multi-fold and one of the largest drivers is money! Share options and stock rewards are very common in the private sector. The best the state can do to compete is give some token bonus which is still going to be bemoaned by the "shareholders" - me and you.

For such a position where basically you will always lose and you will probably lose some friends over it too as health is such a contentious issue, the reward package needs to be substantial!

Plus he could earn a good bit more than 315k working full time in private medical practice.

Carsinian Thau

Just when I think I can't lose any more respect for the HSE, they pull something like this out.

I know that not all of the problems are his fault and the difficulty in fixing most of them is simply incalculable, but still, he really doesn't deserver this. Especially in light of all the cutbacks that patients and hospital staff have had to deal with recently.

walshb

Joey the lips wrote: »

Its a performance related bonus so it proves he performed.

So, it proves it does it? And who exactly says what has or has not been proved? Who makes the decision to pay this man 70k on top of his salary and perks based on his performance?

I'll tell you who. The cronies who negotiate these fat cat contracts to rape this country for every cent it has. His mates are the ones who are rewarding him. Where is the fairness
and transparency with these cosy arrangements?

Joey, I don't mean to sound offensive, but if you can simply dismiss it and buy it because of semantics, "Its a performance related bonus so it proves he performed.", then I guess that explains why we here will always be exploited by those in power

lobber

It makes you just scratch your head in disbelief. I mean what reality do this people live in? They try to justify it by saying it was payments due to him from 2007. from what i've read today HSE did a pretty piss poor job of things that year. And yes as some people mentioned he should really stand up and not take the bonus, christ he is earning enough already that I can't see him needing it. But it isn't just him i'd reckon that are getting the bonus for that year, the board as well....

Ms Harney said the approval of such a payment was "entirely a matter for the board". So she's washing her hands of it and goes wimps out further by saying that 'It was in line with Prof Drumm's contract of employment' My contract stated i would receive a bonus each year too but guess what, that never happened for me or for anyone else in my company even tho there were absolutely no issues with or performance..

Ms Harney said the bonus payment scheme had been introduced in about 1987 and that it had not been introduced by the present Government. Give us a break... passing the buck.

Joey the lips

walshb wrote: »

So, it proves it does it? And who exactly says what has or has not been proved? Who makes the decision to pay this man 70k on top of his salary and perks based on his performance?

I'll tell you who. The cronies who negotiate these fat cat contracts to rape this country for every cent it has. His mates are the ones who are rewarding him. Where is the fairness
and transparency with these cosy arrangements?

Joey, I don't mean to sound offensive, but if you can simply dismiss it and buy it because of semantics, "Its a performance related bonus so it proves he performed.", then I guess that explains why we here will always be exploited by those in power

Explains nothing. This bonus is based on 2006 or 2007 performance. He met with mary harnery. As per mary's instruction he agreed to do X Y AND Z once he does it he gets paid a bonus. He has done that so he gets a bonus.

Now if he never achieved ehat he said and got the bonus it would be wrong

But here is the bit all fail to see. He works on a contract. The govt tell him in writing if he does x y and z they will pay him his wage and a performance bonus. If he does this and they dont pay that bonus they are in breach on contract law.

For this they the govt can be taken to court.

We will then be paying brendans bonus, a penality for breach of contract and the solicitor and barister fees to fight this in court. I reckon the guts of 1/2 a million euro.


NOW. i agree it might not be fair but a deal is a deal. That is why i understand the unions for going on strike. That is why i understand houses being reposessed and that is why i understand brendan drum getting a bonus.

If you are angry with someone get angry with the govt for agreeing the bonus.

walshb

Hey, never did I say I was angry with Drumm. Drumm is simply exploiting the corruptuion and gravy train that exists. I do still think he has a brass neck to accept it and if he had any standards or morals and reflected on the climate we are living in, then he would refuse it. I mean, he is doing a job, and not very well, in other places, he'd be ****ing sacked. In Ireland, when you screw up, you get rewarded. These contracts and deals done by the scum in govt and the legal eagles and the others is the problem.

Drumm may not be screwing up, but what the **** is he doing that is so good that he deserves a 70k reward on top of an already well paid salary? I mean, did he discover a cure for Cancer or AIDS or Diabetes or something?

FlutterinBantam

walshb wrote: »

Flutterin, but why should he get 70 k from me and you and every other
taxpayer. That's a damn good wage to most people. And he is getting it as a reward?:mad: The bigger issue is the gravy train operating here. It's corrupt and immoral and just because the lowlifes legislate for it, it will
never make it right

I agree with you on the fact that he should not get the 70k.

ride-the-spiral

What I don't understand is that he was meant to get it in 2007, but didn't because the HSE were on a pay freeze. And now were quite deep in recession and he gets it now, it seems that Drumm is the only perseon in the HSE that the pay freeze has been lifted for.

Bandit12

This a joke right?

niffle

How can the govt give this bonus yet come after me formore of my salary to help ends meet ? this country is totally f****ed.

Deise Tom

I have not read what everyone has to say, so forgive me if what i have to say has been said already. Anyone that accepts such money like what he is getting should be jailed. The Heath System which he is in charge of is in a shambles. How can he justify such a payment.

I think there should be a maximum amount that any one person can earn in one year, be it in salaries, bonus' etc. The person that would write a cheque for him is just as bad.

At least John O'Donoghue done the correct thing when he was found out, even if he was forced to do what he did and even if he has every excuse under the sun for what happened.

Brendan Drumm should now do the same and resign straight away and forget about any bibus due to him. The same would apply to bankers, ceo's of other organisations etc.

enda1

Deise Tom wrote: »

I have not read what everyone has to say, so forgive me if what i have to say has been said already. Anyone that accepts such money like what he is getting should be jailed. The Heath System which he is in charge of is in a shambles. How can he justify such a payment.

I think there should be a maximum amount that any one person can earn in one year, be it in salaries, bonus' etc. The person that would write a cheque for him is just as bad.

At least John O'Donoghue done the correct thing when he was found out, even if he was forced to do what he did and even if he has every excuse under the sun for what happened.

Brendan Drumm should now do the same and resign straight away and forget about any bibus due to him. The same would apply to bankers, ceo's of other organisations etc.

I didn't believe people like you actually existed! :eek:

I'd say troll other than your number of posts.
Kinda depressing actually.

Deise Tom

enda1 wrote: »

I didn't believe people like you actually existed! :eek:

I'd say troll other than your number of posts.
Kinda depressing actually.

Whats wrong with what i say. Its a personal ipinion. Everyone is entitled to it. It just happens i have no time for anyone that is motivated by money. Why do people want so much money. All a person should need is for enough to survive.

walshb

Deise Tom wrote: »

Whats wrong with what i say. Its a personal ipinion. Everyone is entitled to it. It just happens i have no time for anyone that is motivated by money. Why do people want so much money. All a person should need is for enough to survive.

Hey, I think the bonus is disgraceful and he should not be getting it.
At least not from my pocket. I pay the fecker enough without
throwing more at him, but I would also not condemn a person for wanting
to make money and wanting to have more than really is necessary, as long as the fecker isn't taking from my account to fund this

Deise Tom

walshb wrote: »

Hey, I think the bonus is disgraceful and he should not be getting it.
At least not from my pocket. I pay the fecker enough without
throwing more at him, but I would also not condemn a person for wanting
to make money and wanting to have more than really is necessary, as long as the fecker isn't taking from my account to fund this

That man and his equals is taking money from all our account or pockets and that is why i said what i did.

FlutterinBantam

This is the real problem though:cool:


http://www.galwayindependent.com/local-news/local-news/high-absenteeism-in-hse-west/