A good METAL amp

Thornography

Hey,

I dont know anything about amps but am looking to buy something thats more suited to high gain, metal guitar playing, and allot of shredding but with a nice crisp clean sound.

Whats the difference's between tube amps and valve and other types?

Im not looking for something to fill the o2 arena, just something big enough to jam in a fairly big open space with little fuzz e.t.c that I can also use with several pedals.

Dangerous Man

Tube and valve amps are the same thing. It's just a difference of language but essentially comes down to Valve being the British description and Tube being American - tap v faucet. Solid state amps don't contain tubes and use circuitry. Hybrid amps use both. For hi-gain applications you can use any of the above types of amp. Solid state is generally less hassle as you don't have to change tubes although some hold that solid state amps don't provide good sound quality compared to tube amps. The difference between the two tends to be exaggerated however. I'd wager that your average punter in a bar wouldn't know the difference and wouldn't care either. Anyway, what's your budget like and maybe we can help you to narrow your options somewhat? :-)

zafo

For a nice cheap option the Peavey Valveking or Windsor.

For more expensive a Peavey 6505+ or Laney GH100L.

All heads there btw.

artvandulet

Check out Randall amps.

Paolo_M

I think you should buy a Diezel VH4, anything else would be a comprimise!!
They're only $4,500.
Seriously have a listen to the clips on the link below, it's the closest I've heard to the tone in my head.
Anyone fancy going time share on one?

Most of these amps would do though
http://www.soundclick.com/bands/default.cfm?bandID=965182&content=music

If you know what you're doing a Dual Rec can work well and you can get good deals second hand. They need a lot of tweaking though. The gain and tone controls seem to be interactive to me, and the amp falls apart completely with the gain set past mid night.

IMO Fuzz has no place in metal. A clean boost in front of a moderatley overdriven valve amp sounds focused, tight and aggressive whereas as fuzz and distortion pedals just sound fuzzy and distorted to me. You spend all your time getting your downstrokes and gallops right and it needs to cut through!!

population

Budget is very important on this, but I have to say (and I am going to get some stick on this;)), for shredding metal high gain stuff on a budget I think some of the Line 6 stuff is great.

I use a Pod XT Live for all my gigs (one man band doing covers) and just route it into a personal monitor so I can hear myself better and I think if you are willing to really get into the editing options you can create some great high gain sounds. The pre programmed patches can be a bit horrible and digital sounding so yeah I would very much recommend getting stck into the editing.

Don't know really what their amps are like bt I believe they did a hybrid with Bogner (who I like a lot) recently. Never heard it though so cannot in confidence recommend it.

Paolo_M

No stick from me.
Not so gone on the Line 6 stuff but I have been messing about with some of the PC based amp modelling software packs like Amplitube and ReValver *shock* :eek:.
They're actually very good IMO, especially with the impulses yokies. Decent tones, the ReValver 5150 is remarkably close to the actual amp tonally. It still doesn't feel like an amp but it's damn good, and I'm preferring it over a real amp turned down to talking volume for home practise.
The Amplitube Dual Rec and AC30 are also nice but the Marshalls are a bit shocking.
Some of the AxeFX Ultra stuff is pretty convincing sounding too but I'll be sticking to the real deal for gigging and band rehearsal for now...

Mr. CooL ICE

Avoid Marshall.

Not necessarily at all costs, but if you are looking at one, do your research on it first

Thornography

Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

BSOM

Thornography wrote: »

Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

Check out the new Marshall MA, €599 (RRP) all valve, sounds great. If you are doing metal i would recommmend a good compressor and tight O/D pedal.

Paolo_M

Thornography wrote: »

Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

You'd probably pick up a 5150 combo second for a bit more if you could stretch your budget, though personally I'd change out the speakers.
Most valve combos are not really suited to full on metal but the 5150 doesn't have the valves suspended in the speaker chamber and sounds great as long as you watch where the gain control is set, 7 is even too much on the red channel.

Something like the Orange Tiny Terror does pretty convincing metal tones when boosted by the right pedal. You'd pick up the head version and a decent 2 X 12 second hand for that money either.

For 2 x 12 twelve you'll be wanting closed backed, oversized if possible and loaded with something like a V30 or GK100 for metal. Getting this right is super important for convincing metal sounds.

The ENGL Screamer might be too far beyond your budget.

Personally I wouldn't touch the DSL/TSL Marshalls with a 10 foot barge pole, and I doubt you'd pick up a JCM series for that cash + they'd need heavy boosting anyway (but sound f*kin great with a clean boost for metal, if you do feel like splashing the cash!!)

Maybe some of the lads have more suggestions.

CianRyan

Metal here!

Nothing wrong with Marshals for metal, for that kind of money though, forget it.
You're looking at €800 for a second hand JCM800 head, and that's with out the speakers.
I picked my latest head for €525, second hand.
Peavey Triplexxx head, great for metal, hardcore, punk and has some nice clean tones too.
I actually got very unlucky with my cab lately now, but that's a different story... Had I have been more careful with the money I could have been all in for about €180 on top.

Tbh, spending €500 on an amp you're going to be using for a few years is a bit mad, imo.
Stretch your budget just a bit longer and you could have some thing much nicer. That way, you wont look back in two years time and think, "I bloody with I had saved up more."

So many great deals to be had as lwel.
Amps just aren't moving these days.

Karl Hungus

Thornography wrote: »

Yeh I have a marshall atm, which is ok i guess. MG100DFX. I only use it in my room but find it has to be cranked up high to get a good tone out of it.

If I were to say a budget of 500euro was set, And would be more inclined to buy second hand, would that be able to help ye suggest something to me?

As I said, I haven't the first idea about amps and tbh Id walk into a store and just say *heres 500euro, give me an amp that works* but this will be the last amp I ever really wanna invest in to get a truly brutal tone for shredding and especially crisp palm muting.

I'd say you should check out one of the Line6 Spider Valve amps. The Spider Valve 112 is well within your price range.

Thornography

I'm using a Boss MT-2 metal zone pedal, NS-2, DS-1 and AC-3 with a cry baby wah atm as my pedals. I would gladly stretch the budget if I knew I would be very happy with the tone and quality of the AMp, But im not going to buy brand new. Thanks for the advise everyone so far

Karl Hungus

Thornography wrote: »

I'm using a Boss MT-2 metal zone pedal, NS-2, DS-1 and AC-3 with a cry baby wah atm as my pedals. I would gladly stretch the budget if I knew I would be very happy with the tone and quality of the AMp, But im not going to buy brand new. Thanks for the advise everyone so far

If you're using the MT-2 for distortion, you are way better off ditching it and using the amp's gain for your metal tones, so it's probably best if you get a decent amp capable of some good high gain sounds. And I think at your budget you'd be better off either getting a modeling amp like the Line6.

But if you wanted to stretch that, you could probably get a used Engl Thunder 50 or Orange Rocker 30 combo for a bit more.

ride-the-spiral

The Spiders are pretty much famous for being crap amps, as are the MGs. I also have the 100dfx and can vouch for that...
Plus if your looking for a good tone with a few pedals or whatever, you don't need a modelling amp to the effects for you.

I highly recommend stretching your budget. You'll be alot happier in the long run. Also be aware with tube amps that as you raise the volume on them they go into overdrive, so the tone you get at a low volume in your bedroom won't be the same as what you get at high volume.

You could get an attenuator with that, but that's an extra 300 euro.

Most people say that tube amps are better than solid states but it all comes down to the amp itself, there are many solid state amps that are better than tube amps for the same price. Avoid "Hybrid" amps too. They only have one valve in the preamp which doesn't affect the sound that much, so it's not going to sound that different to a solid state. Of course these are only "rules of thumb" so try whatever you want buy.

brendansmith

Dimebag was the ultimate shredder and he used a solidstate randall................................. so there.

CianRyan

He switched to Krank Tube amps before he died.

brendansmith

CianRyan wrote: »

He switched to Krank Tube amps before he died.

Yes but not on his best work.

Demeyes

If you are serious about getting a good metal tone then you'll probably have to spend a bit more than 500, even going 2nd hand. I'd suggest that if you plan in playing in a band then you'll probably want to go for a head and cab setup, which will be outside your budget.
There is the Bugera stuff which are cheap tube amps that are less expensive clones of some other companies amp models. These will get you a great metal tone but there has been talk of some reliability issues with them in the past, but these have apparently been rectified. You could even get something within your budget if you go this route.
You can pick up some nice tube combo's too but most are aimed more towards the classic rock end of things. Laney and Peavey do some nice cheaper tube combos that will probably get you a workable metal tone if you run a pedal in front. Pedalwise I'd recommend something along the lines of an OD or booster as opposed to a distortion pedal like the ones you have. The trick is to push your amp into a more distorted state instead of just using the clean channel and getting all your tone from the pedal.

Nahguavkire

Engl Powerball/ Fireball... Game over, it's the best metal amp by far...

subzero12

Nahguavkire wrote: »

Engl Powerball/ Fireball... Game over, it's the best metal amp by far...

ive owned them both and there good amps but honestly they cant beat a 6505+ or a framus cobra with a maxon ts808 infront of them.

Thornography

Nahguavkire wrote: »

Engl Powerball/ Fireball... Game over, it's the best metal amp by far...

Iv been looking at these and there defiantly top of my list to look out for.

But I still think there not metal enough.

Dangerous Man

I have the ENGL Screamer 50. ENGL does metal, believe me. The bass player from my old band showed up at my house one day with an ESP with EMG pups. For me, a horrible guitar but when he put it through the ENGL on the 'Heavy Lead' channel I was nearly sent through the window. Blazing distortion with practically endless sustain. I'm not a metal player - more of a rock guy but if I wanted metal I know my amp could deliver. In spades.
I'd love to have the fireball head / cab arrangement actually. Sweet.

Thornography

Dangerous Man wrote: »

I have the ENGL Screamer 50. ENGL does metal, believe me. The bass player from my old band showed up at my house one day with an ESP with EMG pups. For me, a horrible guitar but when he put it through the ENGL on the 'Heavy Lead' channel I was nearly sent through the window. Blazing distortion with practically endless sustain. I'm not a metal player - more of a rock guy but if I wanted metal I know my amp could deliver. In spades.
I'd love to have the fireball head / cab arrangement actually. Sweet.

X-music doesnt seem to do them

does anyone know where does? and how much ?

Dangerous Man

Here ya go: I got mine from these guys too (also bought the Z5 footswitch a brilliant, but pricey accessory.)


http://www.thomann.de/ie/engl_screamer_50_roehrencombo_e330.htm?sid=e0eb29cf2c928e26417430e00df1da2f

Karl Hungus

Thornography wrote: »

But I still think there not metal enough.

Hah! :pac:

Honestly, it just doesn't get more Metal than Engl. I'd still say try second hand, you should be able to get a Thunder 50, or maybe Screamer 50. If you're unconvinced that Engl isn't metal enough, take a peek a this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfg0iLnzsw

Dangerous Man

Damn... that'll make your eyes water for sure. That kind of music is the reason I don't like metal but by God do I admire players who can do THAT! Amazing playing.

Paolo_M

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Hah! :pac:

Honestly, it just doesn't get more Metal than Engl. I'd still say try second hand, you should be able to get a Thunder 50, or maybe Screamer 50. If you're unconvinced that Engl isn't metal enough, take a peek a this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfg0iLnzsw

Demz some metal tonz alright.
Not a big fan of this style of music but the tone is perfect.
Lots of clear punchy mids, not too much low and not too much gain, which seem to be the common "mistakes" metallers make.
ENGLs have the perfect sound for what appears to be called "teh brootz", I think that's what the modern kids call the Lamb Of God etc. sound.
Oh God, I'm so old and out of it

stestevens

Paolo_M wrote: »

You'd probably pick up a 5150 combo second for a bit more if you could stretch your budget, though personally I'd change out the speakers.
Most valve combos are not really suited to full on metal but the 5150 doesn't have the valves suspended in the speaker chamber and sounds great as long as you watch where the gain control is set, 7 is even too much on the red channel.

Something like the Orange Tiny Terror does pretty convincing metal tones when boosted by the right pedal. You'd pick up the head version and a decent 2 X 12 second hand for that money either.

For 2 x 12 twelve you'll be wanting closed backed, oversized if possible and loaded with something like a V30 or GK100 for metal. Getting this right is super important for convincing metal sounds.

The ENGL Screamer might be too far beyond your budget.

Personally I wouldn't touch the DSL/TSL Marshalls with a 10 foot barge pole, and I doubt you'd pick up a JCM series for that cash + they'd need heavy boosting anyway (but sound f*kin great with a clean boost for metal, if you do feel like splashing the cash!!)

Maybe some of the lads have more suggestions.

I have a tiny terror and you can get some savage tone out of it for all styles

frostie500

Karl Hungus wrote: »

I'd say you should check out one of the Line6 Spider Valve amps. The Spider Valve 112 is well within your price range.

Great amp and you can generally get them for pretty good value

Thornography

Karl Hungus wrote: »

Hah! :pac:

Honestly, it just doesn't get more Metal than Engl. I'd still say try second hand, you should be able to get a Thunder 50, or maybe Screamer 50. If you're unconvinced that Engl isn't metal enough, take a peek a this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tvfg0iLnzsw

Ok I stand so so corrected. and I love it.

Thats my style of metal that I play so I think ill go for a ENGL. What kind is he playing?

My ears experienced an orgasm lol.

Nahguavkire

Despite my previous advice however my next amp purchase is most likely going to be an Orange AD50H Thunderverb (the 200w is a bit of overkill unless you're playing stadiums...)

Karl Hungus

Paolo_M wrote: »

Demz some metal tonz alright.
Not a big fan of this style of music but the tone is perfect.
Lots of clear punchy mids, not too much low and not too much gain, which seem to be the common "mistakes" metallers make.
ENGLs have the perfect sound for what appears to be called "teh brootz", I think that's what the modern kids call the Lamb Of God etc. sound.
Oh God, I'm so old and out of it

Honestly, they're great amps altogether, not just for the brutal metals (although that said, the Fireball/Powerball are very one-trick ponies). You'd see quite a few of the classic rock heads going for them these days, and yeah, it's those mids that really shine. I have the Engl Invader 100 myself, and the low gain tones are just astounding, far better than what most big multi-channel amps can do. So for the oldies among us, check out Steve Morse's tone here, especially the solo after 3:30 onwards:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UiBGOI_odHI

Tonally, it's not too different to the Jeff Loomis clip I posted, it's lighter on gain, but there's still those punchy mids.

Here's a rather cool video I found, he's using the Steve Morse signature amp:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZDUyocKGQ4

Thornography wrote: »

Ok I stand so so corrected. and I love it.

Thats my style of metal that I play so I think ill go for a ENGL. What kind is he playing?

My ears experienced an orgasm lol.

Looking at this clip he's playing an Invader, this big shiny thing here. But yeah, that's a little on the expensive side, so not something I'd recommend with a given budget of 500-ish.

But if you like the Engl sound like in the clips, the Screamer 50 would definitely be the closest to the Invader/Steve Morse sig in a small package, and if you got a nice boost like an Ibanez Tubescreamer (here), it would push the mids that bit more and get you closer to the more saturated, punchy mids of the bigger Engls.

Anyway, here's a video of someone running a demo of the Screamer, which should give you an idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vaLx_qwFrMQ

I'd still say look second hand, you might find yourself a good bargain.

chancer60

For metal go for a valve amp. Valves overdrive in a way that transistors (solid state) can't match. They have a natural compression when driven hard. If you want something you can use at home or for pub gigs you won't beat the sound of the Marshall combos. Anything around 100w will do nicely. They also look great and who can agrue with the Marshall heritage. If you need to go louder most of them have a direct out socket that allows you to plug into a PA system. Many have an extension speaker socket too. The Marshall combos I've had have a huge range of tone options and usually allow you to have a clean, overdriven and mega overdriven channel each available from a footswitch which is essential for quick sound changes on stage. Recent models have a digital effects processor (reverb, delay, chorus, flange etc). My personal favourite VS 265 (2 x 12) just has reverb and chorus. I've had problems with both Marshall combos I have but nothing major (dry solder joints and a loose circuit board). Check the weight of whatever you're buying. If you can't lift it you'll eventually hate it.

Tomas911

+1 Randall