That Brian Lenihan Video Again.

dresden8

I had a thread closed because of lack of comment in my OP.

Video here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sED3iApAvE

Many posters on previous threads have said Lenihan is correct, they never promised new jobs, only to keep the current ones as best we can.

This link

http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/YestoLisbon/

Yes to Lisbon, Yes to FDI, Yes to New Jobs

Posted on 21/09/09 by Mary Coughlan

The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Ms. Mary Coughlan, T.D., today (Tuesday, 22 September 2009) said that the message she has received from the international foreign direct investment community is clear - Ireland’s position and influence within the European Union is a key factor in choosing to locate new job-creating investments here.

The Tánaiste said that a YES vote by the Irish people to the Lisbon Treaty will send a clear signal to potential investors that Ireland is serious about its pitch as the gateway to the EU. She said that a strong YES vote on Friday week would give new impetus to job creation and an export-led recovery.

(my bolding, my italics)

This gives the lie to what Minister Lenihan said and disproves the viewpoints expressed by our yes-side friends.

This is the man who says "Trust me, give me 54 billion and I'll do the right thing."

I don't believe him.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

I had a thread closed because of lack of comment in my OP.

Video here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sED3iApAvE

Many posters on previous threads have said Lenihan is correct, they never promised new jobs, only to keep the current ones as best we can.

This link

http://www.fiannafail.ie/news/entry/YestoLisbon/



(my bolding, my italics)

This gives the lie to what Minister Lenihan said and disproves the viewpoints expressed by our yes-side friends.

This is the man who says "Trust me, give me 54 billion and I'll do the right thing."

I don't believe him.

firstly i'm glad really happy you didn't go on complaing about bias on the forum for taking down your thread but just posted it again this time with a comment.

truth is, yes for jobs was a faulty slogan. everyone to whom i've spoken to told me this even if they were voting yes. but who knows maybe there will be an agency established in ireland under lisbon bringing jobs...give it a first 100 days after ratification, same time given to new political leaders.

dresden8

Mario007 wrote: »

firstly i'm glad really happy you didn't go on complaing about bias on the forum for taking down your thread but just posted it again this time with a comment.

Hey, I'm only a jerk half the time.

Mario007 wrote: »

truth is, yes for jobs was a faulty slogan. everyone to whom i've spoken to told me this even if they were voting yes. but who knows maybe there will be an agency established in ireland under lisbon bringing jobs...give it a first 100 days after ratification, same time given to new political leaders.

In the context of this thread though that's irrelevant.

Lenny said it never happened, it plainly did.

It was an untruth, out there for all to see.

On "mature recollection" will he take it back?

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

Hey, I'm only a jerk half the time.



In the context of this thread though that's irrelevant.

Lenny said it never happened, it plainly did.

It was an untruth, out there for all to see.

On "mature recollection" will he take it back?

Well it is Mary Coughlan.

dresden8

K-9 wrote: »

Well it is Mary Coughlan.

Indeed. The Minister with direct responsibility for job creation, not to mention Tanaiste, and the article comes from the FF website.

Sometimes slagging off the lovely girl from Donegal ain't enough. They can't use her as a lightning rod all the time.

Mario007

K-9 wrote: »

Well it is Mary Coughlan.

i was just about to use that argument:D

though i was watching czech tv and intel was saying they are reconsidering their position in ireland should lisbon be rejected...so there might some truth behind the jobs claim

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

Indeed. The Minister with direct responsibility for job creation, not to mention Tanaiste, and the article comes from the FF website.

Sometimes slagging off the lovely girl from Donegal ain't enough. They can't use her as a lightning rod all the time.

they don't use her as much as she just usually happens to be the lightning rod...

dresden8

Mario007 wrote: »

they don't use her as much as she just usually happens to be the lightning rod...

Yup, but Lenny is the one trying to spin a new reality around the Yes vote.

He is an untruth teller.

meglome

Does he promise jobs in those videos?

Yes to Lisbon, Yes to FDI, Yes to New Jobs

Posted on 21/09/09 by Mary Coughlan

The Tánaiste and Minister for Enterprise, Trade and Employment, Ms. Mary Coughlan, T.D., today (Tuesday, 22 September 2009) said that the message she has received from the international foreign direct investment community is clear - Ireland’s position and influence within the European Union is a key factor in choosing to locate new job-creating investments here.

The Tánaiste said that a YES vote by the Irish people to the Lisbon Treaty will send a clear signal to potential investors that Ireland is serious about its pitch as the gateway to the EU. She said that a strong YES vote on Friday week would give new impetus to job creation and an export-led recovery.

I hope this quote turns out to be true but there was no promise.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

Yup, but Lenny is the one trying to spin a new reality around the Yes vote.

He is an untruth teller.

well lenihan is actually not lying, he's just saying his interpretation of things. that mary coughlan thought she will get jobs out there after lisbon is very nice and all i do wish her all the luck as a minister for just this sort of thing, but lenihan hasnt said a thing that would go against line of thinking.

K-9

In fairness what she says may be true. Only way we'd know is comparing a No and Yes and we can't really do that.

Will that mean a Yes will increase employment and reduce unemployment? We might know that in 3/4 years time.

dresden8

Mario007 wrote: »

well lenihan is actually not lying, he's just saying his interpretation of things. that mary coughlan thought she will get jobs out there after lisbon is very nice and all i do wish her all the luck as a minister for just this sort of thing, but lenihan hasnt said a thing that would go against line of thinking.

To quote Minister Lenny

"....the referendum was presented as a job creation program, that is simply not correct"

Jeez, did anybody listen to the link?

Did anybody read the quote?

Yes to Lisbon, Yes to FDI, Yes to New Jobs

Maybe in a post Lisbon world denial is a river in Egypt.

PomBear

it realy is hard being right all the time:rolleyes:

meglome

dresden8 wrote: »

To quote Minister Lenny

"....the referendum was presented as a job creation program, that is simply not correct"

I can't speak for everyone but I didn't vote yes for jobs and my friends and family didn't votes yes for jobs. But they are hoping that some new jobs might come out of the yes vote.

dresden8 wrote: »

Yes to Lisbon, Yes to FDI, Yes to New Jobs

Maybe in a post Lisbon world denial is a river in Egypt.

And hopefully there will be lots of job created. I don't remember seeing anyone claiming that the reason to vote yes to Lisbon was for jobs, it was just one consideration.

The main reason I voted Yes to Lisbon was the reforms to the EU.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

To quote Minister Lenny



Jeez, did anybody listen to the link?

Did anybody read the quote?



Maybe in a post Lisbon world denial is a river in Egypt.

it's very hard to argue here since i think the jobs thing is just horsecrap really, but how are we to know that lisbon wont bring in new jobs? as i said in another thread give it a 100 days before we can see the results

The Raven.

dresden8 wrote: »

Jeez, did anybody listen to the link?

Did anybody read the quote?

Maybe in a post Lisbon world denial is a river in Egypt.

Dresden, you are absolutely correct. Lenihan is blatantly lying. It couldn't be more obvious! It is ridiculous to continue to deny it.

PaulieD

Did anybody actually believe in "Yes for Jobs."

meglome

The Raven. wrote: »

Dresden, you are absolutely correct. Lenihan is blatantly lying. It couldn't be more obvious! It is ridiculous to continue to deny it.

Now this is going to be a funny one for me as I can't tolerate Lenihan. Anyhow... where exactly did he lie about job creation?

PaulieD wrote: »

Did anybody actually believe in "Yes for Jobs."

It might and hopefully will happen. I just don't know anyone who used that as the main reason to vote Yes.

K-9

dresden8 wrote: »

To quote Minister Lenny



Jeez, did anybody listen to the link?

Did anybody read the quote?



Maybe in a post Lisbon world denial is a river in Egypt.

But FG and Labour campaigned on this line too.

She could be right and we get 100,000 jobs from FDI but we could lose 200,000 to FDI in other countries.

Will a Yes help? Probably a little more than a No.

The fact is jobs are our in our own hands. We are now facing the problem that we are a relatively rich country, even now and we need all the help we can get to keep jobs.

dresden8

K-9 wrote: »

But FG and Labour campaigned on this line too.

She could be right and we get 100,000 jobs from FDI but we could lose 200,000 to FDI in other countries.

Will a Yes help? Probably a little more than a No.

The fact is jobs are our in our own hands. We are now facing the problem that we are a relatively rich country, even now and we need all the help we can get to keep jobs.

That is not the point.

Lenny is telling untruths because he knows he can't deliver what his party in an official press release promised.

He is spinning a web of deceit. It does not matter whether you or anybody else believed it in the first place, he is spinning.

And he is caught out.

meglome

dresden8 wrote: »

That is not the point.

Lenny is telling untruths because he knows he can't deliver what his party in an official press release promised.

He is spinning a web of deceit. It does not matter whether you or anybody else believed it in the first place, he is spinning.

And he is caught out.

But where did he promise jobs? I hate to defend the guy as I really don't like him. They played the game well with their vague slogans about things that could or might happen. And maybe they will, I hope so for the rest of us.

PaulieD

meglome wrote: »

It might and hopefully will happen. I just don't know anyone who used that as the main reason to vote Yes.

It will not happen. An awful lot of people claimed they voted "Yes for Jobs" when RTE asked them how they voted.

meglome

PaulieD wrote: »

It will not happen. An awful lot of people claimed they voted "Yes for Jobs" when RTE asked them how they voted.

And as I keep saying we might well get those jobs. But what might happen and what will happen are two different things.

Mario007

meglome wrote: »

And as I keep saying we might well get those jobs. But what might happen and what will happen are two different things.

am maybe coughlan was right.... Jobs

meglome

Mario007 wrote: »

am maybe coughlan was right.... Jobs

Well she's bound to get it right at least once

K-9

Logically, even Coughlan and FF/FG/Labour aren't going to support something that isn't going to create jobs.

Might as well employ No side logic.

Mrmoe

The government lied to the people, I am surprised people are still surprised about this at this stage.

K-9

Mrmoe wrote: »

The government lied to the people, I am surprised people are still surprised about this at this stage.

That isn't what this is about.

This is a politically opportunistic thread.

odoylerulez

I think people know politicans lie. Its part of the job. But now see whats happening is they have become so arrogant and self assured they no longer leave a 'time frame' for the lie to pass. He was quoted saying this in the counting centre. So he didn't leave a week or so pass off before he said this. This is only the begining of things to come.

dresden8

K-9 wrote: »

That isn't what this is about.

This is a politically opportunistic thread.

It is. Lenihan gave us the opportunity to catch him lying.

We caught him.

dresden8

Mrmoe wrote: »

The government lied to the people, I am surprised people are still surprised about this at this stage.

What surprises me is that people still refuse to believe what their eyes see and what their ears hear.

Bizarre in the extreme.

Johnny Utah

A chip off the old block. Wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him!

utick

Mario007 wrote: »

am maybe coughlan was right.... Jobs

that has nothing to do with lisbon unless you are suggesting it was a bribe to get a yes vote in which case you should maybe discuss it in conspirocy theories forum.

LookingFor

Perhaps he'll hire a new PR guru to deal with this matter.

Hence a job created as a result of Lisbon!

imokyrok

It seems like common sense to me. Our economy is in the crapper. We need investors to have confidence in our chances of recovery. Chances of recovery are higher with the support of our EU colleagues than if we'd pissed them of for scuppering seven years hard work. Ergo we are more likely to see job creation resulting from a yes vote than if we had voted no.

turgon

I think the fact we are having this whole discussion shows how idiotic three word slogans are. Three words is firmly in the realm of interpretation. My interpretation of "Yes to Jobs" is actually "dont say No to Jobs," as I explain here.


So a lot of people are bitter that either they or some other people fell for 3 word slogans. They feel FF lied to them. They didn't. They threw out a 3 word slogan that people assumed meant "goody, the government will create Jobs if we vote Yes." And it didn't.

The Yes to Jobs realm is where the government doesn't have control. It will be the work of economics that will make the Yes to Jobs true, as companies have more confidence in Ireland Inc. I know people in 21st century Ireland have become so accustomed to the government doing everything for them that anything less than full control of the direction of things amounts to lying. It doesnt.

dresden8

turgon wrote: »

They feel FF lied to them. They didn't.

This thread isn't about whether FF lied during the Lisbon campaign. Lisbon is over, that arguement has been won and lost.

This thread is about the lying they are doing now.

One more time.

Lenny said

"....the referendum was presented as a job creation program, that is simply not correct"

The FF press release stated

Yes to Lisbon, Yes to FDI, Yes to New Jobs

I suppose in ten years time we'll come back and Lenny will be denying he ever said NAMA could break even and the same people will come out and say of course he's right, I never bought into that NAMA rubbish anyway.

turgon

dresden8 wrote: »

This thread is about the lying they are doing now.

Indeed, my bad. Well the fact hes said "Yes to New Jobs" is quite different, it eliminated the interpretation I made above.

Presumably Mr Lenihin will now wait for corporations to use this confidence to create Jobs. It wont happen fast though. While I feel that Yes to New Jobs may have been a valid economic reason to vote Yes, I certainly think that basing your campaign on it is unethical.

dresden8

turgon wrote: »

While I feel that Yes to New Jobs may have been a valid economic reason to vote Yes, I certainly think that basing your campaign on it is unethical.

And then to deny it while the count is still on. (or was it just finished)

jhegarty

They usually wait until the posters are down to start the u-turn.

This must be a record.

Mario007

utick wrote: »

that has nothing to do with lisbon unless you are suggesting it was a bribe to get a yes vote in which case you should maybe discuss it in conspirocy theories forum.

i'm suggesting its an eu investment. and if we were not to ratify the lisbon future investments like that might not go our way...see thats goodwill working there...