Bar/Club closing times - should they be extended?

Tellox

While reading through the "What should our next referendum be on?" thread here in AH, someone made the fantastic point on the currently ridiculous closing hours of Irish bars and clubs.

Currently, it hits 2.30am - and all of a sudden, there are thousands of drunk people landed on the street at the same time; and the brawl for chips, batter solliges and taxi's begin. First off, I'd like to ask WHO THE ****TING **** ever thought it could possibly be a good idea to take thousands of drunks, and send them off to the same place, at the same time, all to obtain things in limited supply?

Anyone here with any experience in a country without closing hours (The canaries etc) will tell you for a fact that getting home is an easier ordeal in a massive way - you're not wading through crowds of people, or queuing an hour for your guarantee of a sick tum and a healthy dose of the ****s in the morning. There's also just a much friendly and paced atmosphere - most nights in Lanzarote I went at a considerably slower pace than I would here, since I knew I wasn't under any pressure to get home for myself.

Now, a lot of people always pose the argument; but Mister 'Lox! Think of how drunk people will be if they can stay out all night! The country would descend to Mayhem!

I would argue this to the ends of the earth. People are going to get as drunk as they're going to get, regardless of the timeframe. People either know when to stop drinking, or they drink until they puke. If there were later opening hours, I myself would just start drinking later; I'd much prefer to head out around 12 or 1, and maybe finish up around 4 or 5. Having opening hours extended does not mean my drinking capacity would proportionally rise.

So, we've got the pro's;

1) Not sending every drunken lunatic onto the street at the same time heading for the same places; avoiding the usual drunken arguments.
2) Not holding up every town/city centre in the country for a good hour due to the above mentioned crowds.
3) Not putting such a strain on Gardaí, Hospital Staff, and chipper workers - due to not having to deal with thousands of people at one time.
4) More working hours available for Pub/Club/Chipper/Security/DJ etc etc staff
5) More people going out in general - those stuck working late into the night would feel more inclined to head out if they weren't being sent home shortly afterwards. In short; more money being spent.

Then there's the "maybe" (unprovable) pro's, such as less public disorder/less pissing in the streets etc etc.

Cons;
1) Still have to deal with the roaring and shouting going home crowds, but sporadically across the course of the entire night - instead of dealing with it all at once. Could be a bit nightmarish for those living in town and lacking decent soundproofing.
2) Some bars may not attract enough business to justify all-night hours; and lose further customers due to earlier closing hours.

And I'm sure someone else will point out a few more for both cases.

I would be of the firm opinion that longer opening hours would lead to a much more pleasant atmosphere around town, less strain on Gardaí/Hospital staff, along with pumping more money into our economy. Needless to say, I'd be willing to pay a few cent extra for a pint after the traditional closing hours.

What say ye, boardsies?

Dravokivich

Go home earlier...

TheZohanS

You have my vote on this one.

Max Power1

im firmly on the YES side of that argument!

Cupcake_Crisis

+1 for scattered closing hours! Now theres something id actually vote for

brummytom

Yeah.

We've got 24 hour licencing here; it's much better to have people trickle out of pubs/clubs as and when rather than all at once

Elliemental

If you have staggered closing times, won`t everyone just go to the pub/club that stays open the latest and then all spill out at the same time?

The best system I have seen is the rolling out system. Your bar is allowed open 12 hours in any 24 hour period. If you have a busy lunch pub, you might open 11-11 or if you have a younger persons pub, you might open 6-6. Pubs close at different times, so people leave and if they choose, go on to another bar. It's a pretty awesome system.

Irish Halo

Elliemental wrote: »

If you have staggered closing times, won`t everyone just go to the pub/club that stays open the latest and then all spill out at the same time?

I think the idea is that there would always be somewhere open later i.e. you could always get drink if you really wanted it

Davidius

Jesus, some of you lads really like to stay out late. 2:30am is really pushing it, I'd have thought only vampires and werewolves would be out then!

Don't any of you have forums to be posting on!?

Tellox

Elliemental wrote: »

If you have staggered closing times, won`t everyone just go to the pub/club that stays open the latest and then all spill out at the same time?

Not really.. if a place was open 24/7, there'd be no spill-out time. Likewise, if a place was open until 6am, most people heading out at a decent hour would head off around the 3-5 margin I would think.

Little Acorn

Papa Smut wrote: »

The best system I have seen is the rolling out system. Your bar is allowed open 12 hours in any 24 hour period. If you have a busy lunch pub, you might open 11-11 or if you have a younger persons pub, you might open 6-6. Pubs close at different times, so people leave and if they choose, go on to another bar. It's a pretty awesome system.

I think this sounds like an excellent idea.
Where is it used?

ShooterSF

It would be fantastic. I work in a bar on Sundays 4-12. Currently I get out closer to half 12 and get maybe an hour and a half drinking time in a club. Which when I do go out has me throwing back drink too fast. It would be great if you could start your night out at anytime and still have a full night out.

ChocolateSauce

Hell yes!

There should be no limit. The government shouldn't have a right to dictate to either businesses or citizens when they can stop partying/selling stuff. If it is totally free, the market forces will lead to the ideal situation as supply meets demand.

In Britain, many clubs stay open until 7.30, and some never close.

Elliemental

Tellox wrote: »

Not really.. if a place was open 24/7, there'd be no spill-out time. Likewise, if a place was open until 6am, most people heading out at a decent hour would head off around the 3-5 margin I would think.

Ah right, literally 24 hr opening. Then yes, i`d definately vote for that.

Tellox

Shall I start the facebook group now then :P

seamus

Davidius wrote: »

Jesus, some of you lads really like to stay out late. 2:30am is really pushing it, I'd have thought only vampires and werewolves would be out then!

There was a time not so long ago when you'd be moving onto another pub/club at 2.30am
Dublin city peaks around 2am. Rammed to the gills like it's Christmas. Only empties out around 3.30 - 4am.

patrickbrophy18

I hope The Lisbon Treaty will install some common sense into this situation and give us later openning hours. Some people have have a mentality that only clubs and late bars in Dublin should have 24/7 openning hours while the rest of the countries clubs and late bars should be stuck in the dark ages. This is daft. The 24/7 system should ideally be open to such establishments nationwide.

happy_acid_face

Glad to see this topic up again (it has been debated over in the food & drink section a few times)

I have actually questioned my local T.D's on this and have also been known to write one or two letters also. I have been very against the closing times ever since the tightened them again about two or so years ago.

My favourite anti closing time argument is an attack on binge drinking. I think everyone here will have participated at some time, or at least witnessed, the last orders rush. "Oh s**t, its 25 past 2!", "Quick two pints, and a shot of Tequila!". Twenty minutes later, the drinks are being knocked back asap as they get pushed towards the door. Larger amounts of alcohol than normal is being consumed at a much faster rate than normal every night due to closing times. I think everyone will agree that this also is also a contributing factor in the violence that can be witnessed at night.
An extreme example of this can be found here The Six O'Clock Swill

Next time you are in a taxi, ask the driver how he feels. I know a lot of taxi men are finding it increasingly difficult to establish a decent amount of fares at night. Once you get your fare at about 3, you may not be back in time to get another. Quick Question: There is about 16000 taxis’s in Dublin Vs. about 12000 in New York. Why do Dubliners find it so hard to get one home on a busy Saturday night?

If you were to ask a restaurateur how he felt about the current situation you would probably get a similar answer. Staggering closing times would make managing the crowds easier and improve the hygiene, service and security of each establishment.

I'll leave it at that for now because if I don't I'll end up ranting on how the whole legislation on alcohol should be revised, including reducing the age limit to 16 on the consumption of certain alcoholic drinks...

ShooterSF

I have thought of a con OP. It's 3:30 am and the club your in is closing. You spot a woman who you figure is in your league and equally drunk so make your move. Then shock horror she's only out an hour and still in full control of her senses. :eek::eek:
This could kill off the wallflower tactic of waiting until they're drunk!

Naikon

We should have 24hour drinking holes.

mayordenis

Aye I work til 2:30 in the morning 4 days a week - if there's anything at all like a few peeps heading out etc on my working day I am 100% going to miss it.

dyl10

Give us back our mid week night-link.

Fcukers!

Cupcake_Crisis

dyl10 wrote: »

Give us back our mid week night-link.

Fcukers!

+100000! Midweek nights out are so much more expensive now! I only go out during the week so the weekend nightlink is useless to me!

abouttobebanned

I'll join in this rant...

And as usual I'll mix it up between points for and against this idea and at the end, nobody, including me will know whether or not im for or against it...

I agree that the idea of unleashing every drunk person onto the street at one time is a bad one, especially in a place like waterford where all the pubs and clubs happen to be in the same area. However, if we extended the opening hours to 4am then I think more people would spend the night drinking at home and then heading out to clubs at about 1 or 2 o clock. There are a lot of cons to this -

1. Bars are dead at 10 o clock.
2. Bar managers and owners really won't be able to predict when their venue will be busy so staffing could become a major issue.
3. Normal people will begin to act like students.

I've attached a picture of a student to illustrate my point here. This is last night, and he's at the bar looking to buy a shot. I'm behind the bar, but I'm not a barman...

students do all their drinking at home in house parties etc...and then arrive into town at about 12:30 - with no money, or just enough to get in...and MAYBE enough to buy one drink. The guy in the photo managed enough for a shot...but he wanted two straws...

People will stay at home and have parties etc and then come into town already steamed up...so night club owners will have people queueing up to their venue to go in and generally be very messy without actually spending much money. Cue club lets go staff...eventually goes out of business...

this is a tough one....I may revisit this later with more opinions.

ShooterSF

abouttobebanned I disagree. The student types will alwys do what they do due to money concerns. House party then out to socialise/dance. They might change what time they start and dinish but that's it. The 40+ crown will still hit the pub about the same time but can now choose when to leave and not be forced out at 11.30/12.30 or go to a club (at least in most towns). The inbetweeners will be able to head out and drink sociably not necking beers so they're buzzed enough to hit the clubs.

Lia_lia

+1


Only con is that us bar staff will have to work longer hours. But more jobs I guess! Everyone wins!

Mossy Monk

Staggered closing is a system that works.

Riddle101

F*cuking Ireland and it's closing times. I remember someone once posted on a thread saying that in Amsterdam you could go out to a pub in the evening, go to an nightclub at 2:00am and move on to a Casino till 6:00am. But over here it's 2:30am.

squod

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Hell yes!

There should be no limit. The government shouldn't have a right to dictate to either businesses or citizens when they can stop partying/selling stuff. If it is totally free, the market forces will lead to the ideal situation as supply meets demand.

In Britain, many clubs stay open until 7.30, and some never close.

I'm looking foward to Ireland reaching pub civilisation, catching up with the rest of the known world. Where every second bar has a bell that rings so as the chicks know when to get them out for the lads, and where patrons get to throw cold water over girls in t-shirts instead of watching fukkin' golf on the tele.

jaysusjones

Does the Pope **** in the woods?

RMD

Swear the government were parents?

"Right lads, want yiz out of the club by half 2, in a taxi at 3 and home for 3.30 or I wont be happy!"

Staggered hours do well, not every club will stay open till 7, it's unrealistic. Bars will open later, clubs will open later and there'll be one or 2 clubs open through out the night. Once the Garda know where's closing at what time it will make it much easier to patrol these areas, rather than having to cover every corner of town from 2.30 onwards.

Third_Echelon

yeah the whole 230 thing is a joke. it is way too early to be turfed out of somewhere..

you can have such a better night out if that deadline is removed. You dont have to worry about rushing your drinks etc. Tonight for example, I was working late. Finished at 11, home by 1140. I would have loved to have gone out, but it wasn't worth my while for 2 hours or so.

I've been loads of places all over the world, and I can't think of any other place that has this stupid closing time!

white apples

ShooterSF wrote: »

I have thought of a con OP. It's 3:30 am and the club your in is closing. You spot a woman who you figure is in your league and equally drunk so make your move. Then shock horror she's only out an hour and still in full control of her senses. :eek::eek:
This could kill off the wallflower tactic of waiting until they're drunk!

Eh, that's a pro for 60% of the country!!

Rabies

Below is what was almost put in to law in Auckland last week.

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055692939

The Policy proposes dividing Auckland City into three sectors with different licensing hours for each. These are for all On-Licences; restaurant, bar and entertainment.


§ Auckland CBD:
Hours 7am till 1am
Can be extended to 3am if
- premise has a clean record
- ‘trained’ security staff on from 11pm – 4am; 1 per 50 patrons
- all staff after 1am are NZQA qualified responsible servers

Can be extended to 24 hours if in addition to the above
- CCTV cameras are in place
- 'one-way door' from 4am
- free food from 3am
- no one person purchases over 4 drinks at a time from 3am

§ Entertainment Precincts:
These are Ponsonby Rd, Parnell Road, Newmarket, Mt Eden Village, Kingsland Village and Mission Bay ONLY.
Hours 7am to 1am
Can be extended to 3am if
- the premise has a clean record
- ‘trained’ security staff on from 11pm – 4am; 1 per 50 patrons
- all staff after 1am are NZQA qualified responsible server
- 'one-way door' from 2am

§ Everywhere else:
Hours 7am to 11pm
Can be extended to 12pm if
- the premise has a clean record
- ‘trained’ security staff on from 10pm – 1am; 1 per 50 patrons
- all staff after 11pm are NZQA qualified responsible server

All Off Licenses including supermarkets will have a 10pm closing time.

BlueButterBean

disgraceful!

Sofiztikated

I like the open for 12 hours idea.

Make the pub choose what kind of pub they want to be, so they can attempt to be a good lunchtime pub, or a good late bar, NOT a half arsed lunch place and kinda ****e at night.

The staggered closing idea is a good idea in theory. But with all good ideas here, we'd balls it up some way.

biko

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

There should be no limit. The government shouldn't have a right to dictate to either businesses or citizens when they can stop partying/selling stuff. If it is totally free, the market forces will lead to the ideal situation as supply meets demand.

Unfortunately this Chicago Boys theory isn't true, and it's been proven in Chile, Argentina and Russia a free unregulated market won't make things better, only worse.

whadabouchasir

24/7 licensing would at least get rid of the "half two you'll do" phenomenon.

Neamhshuntasach

My bank account says no. I don't need reasons to be out longer. Shorten them actually.

chosen1

Seem to be in a minority here but I think it's necessary for Ireland to have closing times. I know it's a nanny state mentality but I do think the majority of Irish people need to be told when to go home.

Have been to countries all over the world where 24hr drinking or staggered closing works perfectly but I honestly dont think it would work in Ireland. Most normal people in the world will drink happily and then choose themselves when to go home, be it 3, 5 or whatever but I've been in countless 24hr bars in different countries where the last to leave has always being a few groups of paddys and its only because they cant physically drink any more (myself included). Know it causes inconvenience to people working odd hours but I've being glad of being forced to stop drinking early on a good few mornings getting up for work after being out.

Also on staggered closing times, you will see loads being kicked out of one place and searching in vain for another spot where they can get a few more drinks.

Would advocate slightly later opening times for Friday and Saturday nights though and not just for nightclubs either.

rubadub

Mr.S wrote: »

Realistically, 24hr openings will never happen, so the best we can hope for is an extension on 2:30 :pac:

I don't see why it could never happen. I remember when certain shops were not allowed open on sundays, and most young people would probably find that hard to believe.

chosen1 wrote: »

I know it's a nanny state mentality but I do think the majority of Irish people need to be told when to go home.

Then who gets to decide what bedtime is best?

chosen1 wrote: »

I've been in countless 24hr bars in different countries where the last to leave has always being a few groups of paddys and its only because they cant physically drink any more (myself included).

No doubt on holidays and taking advantage of the new found gimmick of 24hr bars, the British would be the same on holidays. I imagine the novelty would soon wear off, esp. when people are not on holidays. I have seen late drinking on holidays too, but there was no "last round" culture, people were leaving when getting sober, rather than tanking up before leaving.

chosen1 wrote: »

Know it causes inconvenience to people working odd hours but I've being glad of being forced to stop drinking early on a good few mornings getting up for work after being out.

So what about those people? many people are not working 9-5, so this universal "bedtime" is a misnomer and totally unfair.

chosen1 wrote: »

Would advocate slightly later opening times for Friday and Saturday nights though and not just for nightclubs either.

Whats so special about friday & saturday? have YOU not got work the next morning, ah sure feck the rest of them they should find a 9-5 mon-fri if they think they should be entitled to a quiet pint after work.

The licensing hours were brought in for world war 1, it was to ensure workers would be fit to work for the war effort. But the war is long over and so it should have been scrapped decades ago.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

There is definately need for some clubs and pubs to stay open past 2.30. Look at the continent... alcohol available 24 hours a day. It's great.