music video lesbianism

Sorry

Boston wrote: »

I'd imagine there's a fair few on this LGB forum.

I meant heterosexual men, obviously.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

It's not rubbish, a large number of men are turned off by pubic hair, and a lot of them have been conditioned by porn. Not even mentioning the young men today who don't even know what a real woman's genitals look like. Good for you if you're not one of those.

A large number of women are turned off by beards. What are they conditioned by? Shaven/waxed vaginas simply are much sexier. You cant see it and oral sex is awful if theres a big bush in front of it

Sorry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

A large number of women are turned off by beards. What are they conditioned by? Shaven/waxed vaginas simply are much sexier. You cant see it and oral sex is awful if theres a big bush in front of it

Stop saying it's much sexier, that's your opinion. And a lot of men have formed their expectations from porn, whether you think so or not.

RossFixxxed

Sorry wrote: »

Stop saying it's much sexier, that's your opinion. And a lot of men have formed their expectations from porn, whether you think so or not.

Lolol and that's YOUR opinion. Certain guys seem to be swayed by it sure AS ARE SOME WOMEN. But this is just mad speculation/ tarring men as porno obsessives that know nothing about women. This comes across as very naive and way too sweeping.

Sorry

RossFixxxed wrote: »

Lolol and that's YOUR opinion. Certain guys seem to be swayed by it sure AS ARE SOME WOMEN. But this is just mad speculation/ tarring men as porno obsessives that know nothing about women. This comes across as very naive and way too sweeping.

No it's not just my opinion, you see. It's also not tarring men as porno obsessives, it's merely stating the fact that a lot of men (not all!!) today have been conditioned by porn in many respects. That's as much a fact as is the way a lot of men are deeply disgusted by male homosexuality.

fantastic98

hi i think its ok anyone kissing once its not actually in ones face so to speak.its ok at a reasonable distance... there are worse things goingon all around the planet...kevin

fantastic98

hi great stuff on the kissing front. it doesnt bother me either and im irish. life is too short not to kiss........................kevin

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

Stop saying it's much sexier, that's your opinion. And a lot of men have formed their expectations from porn, whether you think so or not.

No it's not just my opinion, you see. It's also not tarring men as porno obsessives, it's merely stating the fact that a lot of men (not all!!) today have been conditioned by porn in many respects. That's as much a fact as is the way a lot of men are deeply disgusted by male homosexuality.

So if its not your opinion where's your evidence? Ever think porn might be copying what men like?

Sorry

No I haven't ever thought that. Have you ever thought yourself why men began to prefer shaven genitals in the past thirty years? Why did they not prefer it before? There's plenty of evidence that porn has influenced men's likes and dislikes in women, and I don't care if you don't believe it, it's not my job to convince you. Porn has had the effect of creating unrealistic expectations of women. The phenomenal increase in labiaplasty alone is evidence of this.

tombanana

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

So if its not your opinion where's your evidence? Ever think porn might be copying what men like?

Porn does influence a lot of young men in what they like, usually the dumb ones though...

Sorry wrote:

There's plenty of evidence that porn has influenced men's likes and dislikes in women.

And women's tastes in that regard have been influenced by things like Sex in the City, fashion, etc. etc. It's more of a societal conditioning than simply porn. But at the end of the day, it's a choice.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

No I haven't ever thought that. Have you ever thought yourself why men began to prefer shaven genitals in the past thirty years? Why did they not prefer it before? There's plenty of evidence that porn has influenced men's likes and dislikes in women, and I don't care if you don't believe it, it's not my job to convince you. Porn has had the effect of creating unrealistic expectations of women. The phenomenal increase in labiaplasty alone is evidence of this.

Show me this evidence and I'll believe you. They've been shaving their genitals in the middle east for centuries.

I can't imagine why anyone would prefer a hairy vagina. I'd say some women started doing it and it then got popular. Porn has been going a lot longer than the last 30 years by the way

Sorry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Show me this evidence and I'll believe you. They've been shaving their genitals in the middle east for centuries.

I can't imagine why anyone would prefer a hairy vagina. I'd say some women started doing it and it then got popular. Porn has been going a lot longer than the last 30 years by the way

I've no intention or desire to convince you anything; I don't care if you're misinformed.

Yes exactly, porn has been going for longer than 30 years. I never said it hasn't, so nice try at twisting words. The majority of women being completely shaven in porn hasn't. If you really think that porn has had no influence on male desires and expectations of women, that is ridiculous.

Your statement about not imagining anyone preferring a hairy vagina is ludicrous and narrow-minded. Plenty of people do; not everyone shares your desires and turn-ons. Reminds me of Michael Healy Rae saying he just can't understand why a man would want to marry a man. Hilarious. I think you've just demonstrated some possible social conditioning yourself.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

I've no intention or desire to convince you anything; I don't care if you're misinformed.

Listen mate, you came on here saying it wasn't your opinion, that it was true. I want to know why its true. Perhaps porn makes more women shave themselves, but given its been commonplace in the middle east for centuries I do not believe men only like shaven vaginas because of porn.

Yes exactly, porn has been going for longer than 30 years. I never said it hasn't, so nice try at twisting words.

What did I twist? I said it has been going longer than thirty years because you commented on popularity of "haircuts" has changed in the last 30 years. Porn has been going longer than 30 years so why are women commonly shaven since then.

The majority of women being completely shaven in porn hasn't. If you really think that porn has had no influence on male desires and expectations of women, that is ridiculous.

Your statement about not imagining anyone preferring a hairy vagina is ludicrous and narrow-minded. Plenty of people do; not everyone shares your desires and turn-ons. Reminds me of Michael Healy Rae saying he just can't understand why a man would want to marry a man. Hilarious. I think you've just demonstrated some possible social conditioning yourself.

Look at the threads on after hours/fashion/ladies lounge about what men prefer and you'll find an overwhelming amount prefer shaven/waxed or trimmed short.

That comparison about Michael Healy Rae is absurd, and quite frankly, clutching at straws.

Sorry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Listen mate, you came on here saying it wasn't your opinion, that it was true. I want to know why its true. Perhaps porn makes more women shave themselves, but given its been commonplace in the middle east for centuries I do not believe men only like shaven vaginas because of porn.




What did I twist? I said it has been going longer than thirty years because you commented on popularity of "haircuts" has changed in the last 30 years. Porn has been going longer than 30 years so why are women commonly shaven since then.



Look at the threads on after hours/fashion/ladies lounge about what men prefer and you'll find an overwhelming amount prefer shaven/waxed or trimmed short.

That comparison about Michael Healy Rae is absurd, and quite frankly, clutching at straws.

I don't need to look at After Hours, I'm well aware what the majority of men like. And it is my opinion, and many others' that pornography has had a significant effect on what some men expect from women, in terms of pubic hair and many other bodily aspects. As I said before, if you don't accept that, I don't really care. It's true though. And perhaps read back on my posts, because you are discussing things I haven't said. I do not say that "men only like shaven vaginas because of porn." My original point stands, that a significant amount of men are conditioned by porn in many respects.

I thought it was an apt comparison, as he, like you seems to think the world revolves around his idea of humanity. I'm talking about your comment that you just can't imagine that people could like pubic hair. That's absurd. Why is that, do you think? Because you don't like it? Not everybody is the same as you.

Once again, if you don't accept that a lot of men have been conditioned by porn, something on which there is plenty of discussion about, then that's up to you.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

I don't need to look at After Hours, I'm well aware what the majority of men like. And it is my opinion, and many others' that pornography has had a significant effect on what some men expect from women, in terms of pubic hair and many other bodily aspects. As I said before, if you don't accept that, I don't really care. It's true though. And perhaps read back on my posts, because you are discussing things I haven't said. I do not say that "men only like shaven vaginas because of porn." My original point stands, that a significant amount of men are conditioned by porn in many respects.

I thought it was an apt comparison, as he, like you seems to think the world revolves around his idea of humanity. I'm talking about your comment that you just can't imagine that people could like pubic hair. That's absurd. Why is that, do you think? Because you don't like it? Not everybody is the same as you.

Once again, if you don't accept that a lot of men have been conditioned by porn, something on which there is plenty of discussion about, then that's up to you.

No evidence then? Fair enough I'll take it simply as your opinion.

Sorry

Plenty of evidence. Go do some research. But no evidence from you to refute the commonly accepted influence of pornography. So I'll take that as your opinion.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

Plenty of evidence. Go do some research. But no evidence from you to refute the commonly accepted influence of pornography. So I'll take that as your opinion.

I never said it was anything but that. Somehow I feel you would provide some if you had anything. Just admit its just your opinon

Sorry

It's not just my opinion. It's not my job to convince you either way. Your remarks about why no pubic hair is sexier, I think were very silly and I honestly don't think there's any point if you don't see why.

There’s plenty of discussion on how pornography has influenced popular perceptions of female beauty. It’s hardly just my opinion. For you to say that pornography has had no effect in this regard is wrong.

http://bit.ly/1jGD3D
http://bit.ly/QWHHM
http://bit.ly/oVNMe

Next time you go to a library:

Pubic Hair and Sexuality: A Review.
Ramsey, Sara; Sweeney, Clare; Fraser, Michael; Oades, Gren | Journal of Sexual Medicine | 2009-086:8, | 2102(9) | ISSN: 17436095
“It is postulated that the current trend of pubic hair removal may be related to the increased accessibility of Internet-based pornography.”

That's all I have to say anyway, we can agree to disagree.

Bottle_of_Smoke

Sorry wrote: »

It's not just my opinion. It's not my job to convince you either way. Your remarks about why no pubic hair is sexier, I think were very silly and I honestly don't think there's any point if you don't see why.

I don't know your gender or sexuality but I can't understand how an untrimmed bush could be more attractive. You literally can't see the vulva. Vulvas are sexy. That's why it's not silly.

The other thing is oral sex. Oral sex is much more common and accepted these days. Oral sex on a woman who hasn't trimmed is very unpleasant. However its quite enjoyable on a woman who'd trimmed/waxed(especially waxed ) Perhaps this is another contributing factor. ITs not as big a deal for men as the penis itself doesn't have hair on it so it doesn't get in the way like it does on a woman.

There’s plenty of discussion on how pornography has influenced popular perceptions of female beauty. It’s hardly just my opinion. For you to say that pornography has had no effect in this regard is wrong.

http://bit.ly/1jGD3D
http://bit.ly/QWHHM
http://bit.ly/oVNMe

First link is just pure speculation, no surveying or analysis of why men prefer shaven vaginas, simply the writer's opinion.
Second link is a trashy celeb gossip type girly site where once again it's just the writer's opinion.
Third link is about vaginal surgery, much more serious than shaving hair off. I'd be more of the opinion porn is conditioning men to pressure women into doing this (thoguh I would still regard these men as pathetic)

If anything porn might be showing men who've never seen a shaven vagina how attractive it is. This isn't conditioning though.

Sorry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

I don't know your gender or sexuality but I can't understand how an untrimmed bush could be more attractive. You literally can't see the vulva. Vulvas are sexy. That's why it's not silly.

The other thing is oral sex. Oral sex is much more common and accepted these days. Oral sex on a woman who hasn't trimmed is very unpleasant. However its quite enjoyable on a woman who'd trimmed/waxed(especially waxed ) Perhaps this is another contributing factor. ITs not as big a deal for men as the penis itself doesn't have hair on it so it doesn't get in the way like it does on a woman.



First link is just pure speculation, no surveying or analysis of why men prefer shaven vaginas, simply the writer's opinion.
Second link is a trashy celeb gossip type girly site where once again it's just the writer's opinion.
Third link is about vaginal surgery, much more serious than shaving hair off. I'd be more of the opinion porn is conditioning men to pressure women into doing this (thoguh I would still regard these men as pathetic)

If anything porn might be showing men who've never seen a shaven vagina how attractive it is. This isn't conditioning though.

It was quite silly, what you said. You don't seem to understand. You can't believe that other people have different sexual likes and dislikes to you. That is bizarre.

How about this: I don't think a shaven vagina is sexier. I know plenty of males and females who don't either. Can you handle this, that your opinion of what's sexiest is not shared by everyone? Because over and over again you're pushing this idea that your view of what's sexiest is the only view. It isn't.

As for the links, they are proof that it is not simply my opinion. You're welcome to do some actual research, if you're able to source peer-reviewed studies yourself. That was not a comprehensive attempt to provide evidence. It was simply a quick demonstration of how there is a real discussion that pornography is believed by many to influence ideals of female bodies.

The vaginal surgery, I had mentioned throughout my posts. A great example of the influence of pornography. My point, once again, is that pornography is known to influence and condition male views of sexuality and desirable body types of females. Your idea that porn has had no influence on male desires and expectations is ridiculous. There is plenty of discussion and evidence to support that it is. I don't care if you don't accept the obvious. And I await some evidence from you that pornography has had no influence on male liking for pubic hair.

Sorry

Bottle_of_Smoke wrote: »

Third link is about vaginal surgery, much more serious than shaving hair off. I'd be more of the opinion porn is conditioning men to pressure women into doing this (thoguh I would still regard these men as pathetic)

You've admitted that it's likely porn is conditioning men in terms of genital shape, size. So you do accept that porn is capable of this, with some men. It's a logical step that porn can condition men in other respects too. And it does.

Boston

wtf is with this?

shoegirl

RossFixxxed wrote: »

Lolol and that's YOUR opinion. Certain guys seem to be swayed by it sure AS ARE SOME WOMEN. But this is just mad speculation/ tarring men as porno obsessives that know nothing about women. This comes across as very naive and way too sweeping.

The questions I have sometimes had from straight guys about women (knowing I'm gay) sometimes indicate that there is a very big emphasis in some parts of male society that depend heavily on porn-influenced marketing RE women's sexuality and bodies.

For example a lot of men don't seem to actually realise that very oversized breasts (non surgically enhanced ones) are sometimes extremely unattractive because their image of large breasts are conditioned by a porn-influenced portrayal of them. Thats only one example.

I also had a very amusing chat with some friends in Limerick the other night after I mentioned that the upcoming P!nk concert in Thomond Park would be "full of lesbians" (going on the demographic from her concert in Cork last year). They really found it hard to believe that this would be anything short of the leggy, high-heeled, long fingernailed image so beloved by the porn industry. In fact it was rather amusing when I tried to get through to them that a significant proportion of Irish lesbians look like builders, but they just couldn't believe it. Fact was, some of my pals admitted that they don't actually know any openly gay woman apart from me, and their image of lesbianism is entirely based on what they see in the media (which includes both porn and a set of views heavily influenced by porn).

Frei

If anything porn might be showing men who've never seen a shaven vagina how attractive it is. This isn't conditioning though.

I shaved before to see what it was like and I definitely prefer myself with hair. All that bother aswell, it's just not worth it. People are obsessed with being hairless. I dont really shave under my arms either, you would think being female and having hair is some sort of deformity the way people go on. If women spent less time on shaving or cutting bits of themselves off they would probably be a lot more relaxed and happier.

Fact was, some of my pals admitted that they don't actually know any openly gay woman apart from me, and their image of lesbianism is entirely based on what they see in the media (which includes both porn and a set of views heavily influenced by porn).

People really need to take the media with a pinch of salt, its only purpose is to make people feel insecure and buy shoes and makeup!