Is the Irish Public Service the highest paid in the world ?

jimmmy

The statistic of average public service pay - across the spectrum of over 300,000 public servants in Ireland - is available from the Irish Central Statistics office ( CSO ) and is 966 euro per week. I have been unable to find a single government public service anywhere in the world with an average p.s. pay which exceeds this. Can anyone help ? If so, links please.

Also any countries which pay more that the public service pension here ( one and a half years finishing salary lump-sum cheque tax free + then 50% of finishing salary as guaranteed pension )? Do police in other countries , for example, have to work a full 30 years before they are entitled to this amount, like the Gardai are here ? Judges here get full pension after 15 years...any countries where that is shorter ? And any countries with better perks than some p.s. people are entitled to here e.g. paid "career breaks"....where you get paid up to 36,000 euro to take up to 3 years off work, to raise your kids, or to go on a round the world holiday or whatever you're having yourself?

Get googling lads + lassies....maybe if government cheques bounce here in the future it will be nice to know of a public service elsewhere in the world where perhaps some people could move to, if they wish to move to a similar work environment ?;)

djpbarry

For the love of <insert preferred deity here>, change the record man.

helimachoptor

jimmmy wrote: »

The statistic of average public service pay - across the spectrum of over 300,000 public servants in Ireland - is available from the Irish Central Statistics office ( CSO ) and is 966 euro per week. I have been unable to find a single government public service anywhere in the world with an average p.s. pay which exceeds this. Can anyone help ? If so, links please.

Also any countries which pay more that the public service pension here ( one and a half years finishing salary lump-sum cheque tax free + then 50% of finishing salary as guaranteed pension )? Do police in other countries , for example, have to work a full 30 years before they are entitled to this amount, like the Gardai are here ? Judges here get full pension after 15 years...any countries where that is shorter ? And any countries with better perks than some p.s. people are entitled to here e.g. paid "career breaks"....where you get paid up to 36,000 euro to take up to 3 years off work, to raise your kids, or to go on a round the world holiday or whatever you're having yourself?

Get googling lads + lassies....maybe if government cheques bounce here in the future it will be nice to know of a public service elsewhere in the world where perhaps some people could move to, if they wish to move to a similar work environment ?;)

I stand to be corrected on this but Judges get their pensions after only 15 years because you only get selected for the bench after years as a barrister so you may not get to the bench til 40+.

gurramok

djpbarry wrote: »

For the love of <insert preferred deity here>, change the record man.

HE has a point. We need to know this as its been debated about alot and facts and figures would help keep us knowledgeable on the situation.

Here's a start. The UK talks about median which is fairer. (Apr '08) http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=285

The percentage difference between the median level of full-time earnings in the public sector (£523 per week in April 2008) and the private sector (£460 per week) narrowed over the year to April 2008, following annual increases of 4.3 per cent and 4.6 per cent respectively.

To me, the PS median rate is about €40k per yr at an old stg rate of 67p. €33k at a rate of 82p and etc to adjust the exchange rate.

Long Onion

The public service that deals with Jimmmy are indeed the highest paid in the world, from the clerks that look after his paperwork to the judges that find in favour of of him.

The public service that the public servants work in in is the worst paid in the world with the longest hours, worst duties and higest levies.

The public service that the rest of the country deals with is somewhere in between, some low paid workers, some highly paide workers, some areas effective, some not. In need of reform - probably, at any cost? - probably not.

djpbarry

gurramok wrote: »

HE has a point.

His point is, once again, that the public service in this country is grossly overpaid. We get it. It's common knowledge. Too much public money is going into funding our bloated public service. Repeatedly stating this fact over and over in thread after thread is not exactly constructive.

The question is, what do we do about it? How do we go about streamlining our public service in a structured manner? How do we get the unions onside in order to achieve this?

gurramok

Long Onion wrote: »

The public service that the rest of the country deals with is somewhere in between, some low paid workers, some highly paide workers, some areas effective, some not. In need of reform - probably, at any cost? - probably not.

Hence, we need to know how the stats weigh up against other countries. I'd be highly surprised if primary school teachers were earning an average of €60k(Dept Education source) in other EU countries for example.

Here's the French.(before reductions of course)

http://insee.fr/en/themes/document.asp?ref_id=IP1211

From this it appears that the average French public sector employee earns €31k('06) while their Irish colleagues from memory earn €49k on average.

gurramok

djpbarry wrote: »

His point is, once again, that the public service in this country is grossly overpaid. We get it. It's common knowledge. Too much public money is going into funding our bloated public service. Repeatedly stating this fact over and over in thread after thread is not exactly constructive.

But you see djpbarry, nearly every post by a PS worker disagrees with your assertion that they are the highest paid in the EU/world or even overpaid so lets drag out the stats to shut them up!

gurramok

Australia (Nov '07)

http://www.news.com.au/business/story/0,23636,22763090-462,00.html

$62k AUS average a yr for a public sector worker. That works out at about €37k using www.xe.com

USA - New York State
http://www.pressconnects.com/article/20090921/VIEWPOINTS02/909210311/1112

$47k average a year, thats €32k.

Liam Byrne

In the interests of a fair discussion, though, the pay that everyone (private and public) gets should be considered in terms of the cost of living in this country.

e.g. Dell moves to Poland because they can pay less; why ? Because most stuff there is cheaper and people don't have to fork out €1,000 a month to pay for a basic place to live, so they can work for less.

Even look at the threads and UK ads about subscriptions to Sky, mobile phones, broadband, electricity, petrol, and you'll see an indication of the premium that we pay to live in this country.

A more tangible example : is a taxi driver in the U.S. paid as much as here ? Probably not, because he gets his petrol for US$2.554 a GALLON [ Source: http://www.api.org/aboutoilgas/gasoline/index.cfm ], which is US$0.56 cent a litre, which equates to €0.385 per litre!!!

So the cost of petrol in Ireland is 300% of the U.S.!!!!

Apply that across the board to basic goods and services everyone in Ireland would need to be paid 3 times what people are paid elsewhere in order to have the same standard of living!

It's a catch 22, obviously, because that then makes everything else more expensive; but of course, that's where FF got it all wrong.

So, before checking anyone in Ireland is "paid more" than elsewhere, check what the average cost of living in Ireland is too, and factor that in.

djpbarry

gurramok wrote: »

But you see djpbarry, nearly every post by a PS worker disagrees with your assertion that they are the highest paid in the EU/world or even overpaid…

Possibly because not every PS worker is? What matters fundamentally is, are we getting value for money from each individual. If not, then that needs to be addressed and we need the unions to cop the **** on and realise that there are people in the public sector who are not deserving of either their current rate of pay, or even deserving of a job at all. However, there are also those who more than deserve what they earn and even some who are underpaid and put up with a tremendous amount of crap on a daily basis.

For example, while not a public servant myself, I currently work in a public building and, if I’m being perfectly honest, about 30% of the admin staff in this place could be relieved of their duties tomorrow and nobody would know the difference. Having said that, there are also administrators who are extremely good at what they do and many of them end up picking up the slack for their less-than-diligent colleagues. There have also been a very wide-ranging series of cut-backs implemented in here in recent months, so people are expected to perform their duties to the same standard as last year, but with (in some cases) significantly diminished resources.

I know this is stating the obvious, but it’s still worth stating. Comparing the average rate of pay of primary teachers (for example) in this country with those in the UK, for example, and finding that Irish teachers are paid say, 10% more than their British counterparts doesn’t really mean all that much in isolation. What matters is what we’re getting for that extra 10%. Could we, for example, replace Irish primary teachers with their British counterparts, save that 10% on public sector salaries and maintain a similar standard of primary teaching? I doubt it.

ardmacha

When are collecting the Stats lads, be sure to mention that secondary teachers in Ireland get 1.19 times GDP, when the OECD average is 1.34 times GDP and that teachers in Japan, Korea, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands etc are better paid, as well as having better working conditions. Don't always be using France.

Euro_Kraut

We probably have one of the highest paid private sectors in the world too. I would imagine pay in both sectors will be reduced soon.

murphaph

The private sector is already in freefall.

gurramok

Finland (similar size country)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6530141/Public-Sector-Pay-in-Finland

Private sector earns a little bit more here than the public sector!

Average public sector pay in Finland is €29.5k.

ardmacha wrote:

When are collecting the Stats lads, be sure to mention that secondary teachers in Ireland get 1.19 times GDP, when the OECD average is 1.34 times GDP and that teachers in Japan, Korea, Germany, Belgium, Luxembourg, Netherlands etc are better paid, as well as having better working conditions. Don't always be using France.

Irish GDP is alot higher than Irish GNP(unlike other OECD countries) because of huge MNC presence here so not valid comparison.

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

Can anyone help ? If so, links please.

Interesing trick jimmmy. You don't have any evidence to support your anti-public-sector-worker jihad, so you're asking other posters to find some for you.

irish_bob

djpbarry wrote: »

His point is, once again, that the public service in this country is grossly overpaid. We get it. It's common knowledge. Too much public money is going into funding our bloated public service. Repeatedly stating this fact over and over in thread after thread is not exactly constructive.

The question is, what do we do about it? How do we go about streamlining our public service in a structured manner? How do we get the unions onside in order to achieve this?

the unions cannot be got onside just as the taliban cannot be got on side in afghanistan , both must be crushed

irish_bob

Liam Byrne wrote: »

In the interests of a fair discussion, though, the pay that everyone (private and public) gets should be considered in terms of the cost of living in this country.

e.g. Dell moves to Poland because they can pay less; why ? Because most stuff there is cheaper and people don't have to fork out €1,000 a month to pay for a basic place to live, so they can work for less.

Even look at the threads and UK ads about subscriptions to Sky, mobile phones, broadband, electricity, petrol, and you'll see an indication of the premium that we pay to live in this country.

A more tangible example : is a taxi driver in the U.S. paid as much as here ? Probably not, because he gets his petrol for US$2.554 a GALLON [ Source: http://www.api.org/aboutoilgas/gasoline/index.cfm ], which is US$0.56 cent a litre, which equates to €0.385 per litre!!!

So the cost of petrol in Ireland is 300% of the U.S.!!!!

Apply that across the board to basic goods and services everyone in Ireland would need to be paid 3 times what people are paid elsewhere in order to have the same standard of living!

It's a catch 22, obviously, because that then makes everything else more expensive; but of course, that's where FF got it all wrong.

So, before checking anyone in Ireland is "paid more" than elsewhere, check what the average cost of living in Ireland is too, and factor that in.

ah the old cost of living argument , did you know that at the begining of the 20th century , argentina was the 8th richest country in the world , its more like 88th today , just because the cost of living in 2007 was higher in ireland than in the uk doesnt mean the cost of living will be higher here in years to come , circumstances change , the cost of living will be down in a week if wages and wellfare fall

jimmmy

gurramok wrote: »

Finland (similar size country)

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/6530141/Public-Sector-Pay-in-Finland

Private sector earns a little bit more here than the public sector!

Average public sector pay in Finland is €29.5k.

.

Thank you. It is interesting ,considering
(A) the cost of living is not very low in Finland...in fact Scandinavia is generally considered expensive
(b) in Finland, like it seems in most developed countries, the private sector earns a little bit more than the public sector.

Now, anyone found a country in the world where the average p.s. wage is higher than in Ireland ? And yet some in our p.s. do not think the p.s. in Ireland is overpaid ?

P. Breathnach

irish_bob wrote: »

the unions cannot be got onside just as the taliban cannot be got on side in afghanistan , both must be crushed

Jaysus! I wouldn't like to live in a society where people were denied the right of freedom of association, or the right to be represented.

What next: golf clubs; lawyers? [Hmm. Maybe there is a case to be made...]

Riskymove

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Jaysus! I wouldn't like to live in a society where people were denied the right of freedom of association, or the right to be represented.

What next: golf clubs; lawyers? [Hmm. Maybe there is a case to be made...]

pity the Republicans are out of the White House, they were probably considering where to land next

optocynic

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Jaysus! I wouldn't like to live in a society where people were denied the right of freedom of association, or the right to be represented.

What next: golf clubs; lawyers? [Hmm. Maybe there is a case to be made...]

Representation based on social and financial begrudgery and a sense of entitlement is, in my opinion, misrepresenting the workers.
It is of course a very populist approach in this country... cos we all love to hate successful people...
Socialism... the politics of the jealous!

I am not against 'unions'.. I am against the current unions and their campaign of divide and conquer.

What is wrong with Golf Clubs?
Or... what is wrong with rich people?

jimmmy

P. Breathnach wrote: »

I wouldn't like to live in a society where people were denied the right of freedom of association, or the right to be represented.

Neither would I, but yet the country is paying the cost of having surrendered to the p.s. unions during the Bertie era. The unions said jump, Bertie said how high ? Maybe it helped him justify his own pay level of being more than the p.m. of the UK, or Germany or France.

Now, to get back to the thread point, anyone found a country in the world where the average p.s. wage is higher than in Ireland ?

Celticfire

[QUOTE=jimmmy;62342119
Do police in other countries , for example, have to work a full 30 years before they are entitled to this amount, like the Gardai are here ? [/QUOTE]

From Suffolk county Police website, 2007 wages.

SALARY
2007 starting base salary for a Police Officer is $57,811. With five (5) years of service, the base salary is $97,958*. These figures do not include paid benefits.

BENEFITS
Full salary and benefits during entire training period.

Paid family dental, optical and medical plans.

Longevity pay increments begin after five (5) years of service.

Fifteen (15) paid vacation days first year of service, increasing to twenty-seven (27) days after five (5) years of service.

Thirteen (13) sick leave days first year of service, increasing to twenty-six (26) days after the first three (3) years of service. Unused sick leave days are cumulative.

* Under 2007 labor agreement


Three (3) paid personal days first year of service, increasing to five (5) days after three (3) years of service.

Night shift payments.

All officers receive thirteen (13) paid holidays.

All uniforms and equipment are supplied by the Department. A yearly uniform cleaning allotment is provided to each officer.

Non-contributory pension plan. Members are eligible for retirement after twenty (20) years of service at 50% of three (3) year final average salary. Vested retirement plan after five (5) years.

Promotions to the ranks of Sergeant, Lieutenant and Captain are through competitive Civil Service Examination. Positions above the rank of Captain are appointed by the Commissioner of Police.

Seems like a pretty good deal to me.. consider the cost of similar cars between here and there.

Toyota corolla:

Ireland, from €21,670 to €24,050

US, from $15,350 - $20,050 (€10,482-€13,692)

joolsveer

jimmmy wrote: »

Thank you. It is interesting ,considering
(A) the cost of living is not very low in Finland...in fact Scandinavia is generally considered expensive
(b) in Finland, like it seems in most developed countries, the private sector earns a little bit more than the public sector.

FYI Finland is not in Scandinavia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

NinjaTruncs

jimmmy wrote: »

paid "career breaks"....where you get paid up to 36,000 euro to take up to 3 years off work, to raise your kids, or to go on a round the world holiday or whatever you're having yourself?

As much as i think the PS are over paid, the above isn't quite correct. That isn't a normal perk, it was something brought in to cut the numbers down in the short term.

The deal was not 'up to' is was take three years and then when you returned you would not be guaranteed a job in the same location/department and you may have to wait up to a year to get one.

Also where my wife works she knew three people who went for it and all were turned down as the department wouldn't have enough staff to cover them.

jimmmy

joolsveer wrote: »

FYI Finland is not in Scandinavia http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scandinavia

Thanks for that...I knew it was open to debate...in the third sentence of the wikipedia link you kindly supply it says " While some authorities argue for the inclusion of Finland and Iceland".......Regardless of how the term Scandinavia is used outside the region, the terms Nordic countries and Nordic region are used officially and unambiguously to identify the nations of Denmark, Norway, Sweden, Finland, and Iceland as well as the Danish territory of the Faroe Islands and the Finnish territory of Åland as politically and culturally similar entities".

I will not use the term Scandinavia as loosely again, so thank you.

My main point was merely the cost of living in that part of the world is not very low

gurramok

From Celticfire's post, we have to compare a police officer's salary to the worlds No.1 economic superpower to find where a Garda's pay and conditions can be beaten?

Darragh29

jimmmy wrote: »

The statistic of average public service pay - across the spectrum of over 300,000 public servants in Ireland - is available from the Irish Central Statistics office ( CSO ) and is 966 euro per week.

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

jimmmy

NinjaTruncs wrote: »

As much as i think the PS are over paid, the above isn't quite correct. That isn't a normal perk, it was something brought in to cut the numbers down in the short term.

Fair point, I knew it was something " brought in to cut the numbers down in the short term". It may not have been a perk that was available many years ago, to to some availing of it now I am sure it is a perk. To my cousin who told me about it, and who is availing of it, it is like winning the lotto, as she was considering taking 2 or 3 years off to be with her kids...and now she gets paid for it, as she told me herself. She asked her boss about it, he told her to go for it, " it's a great opportunity" , and the job would be there for her when she came back;). I do not blame her, that is the system. She works hard while she is there I am sure, and taking time off to help her kids with homework etc is something commendable and worthwhile I am sure. Single p.s. people without kids may of course use the dosh ( up to 36 grand ) to holiday around the world or whatever they want ...thats up to them.

jimmmy

gurramok wrote: »

From Celticfire's post, we have to compare a police officer's salary to the worlds No.1 economic superpower to find where a Garda's pay and conditions can be beaten?

Do police salaries vary from state to state in the USA ? State taxes do.

jdivision

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

They're lying. my mate's a guard (not at basic grade) and earns E14 less than the figure above and that's before overtime etc. A lot of public servants only talk about their post tax income for some reason.

jimmmy

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

Maybe your mates are very young / newly qualified "paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers" ? Average Garda pay is about 1200 per week. I never met one yet who could'nt afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night. In all fairness, do bear in mind many people , including some "paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers" bought property investments / 2rd + 3 rd properties, shares etc etc....and are not letting on to many people....so you do not always know peoples individual circumstances.

dodgyme

jdivision wrote: »

They're lying. my mate's a guard (not at basic grade) and earns E14 less than the figure above and that's before overtime etc. A lot of public servants only talk about their post tax income for some reason.

jdivision I hear you loud and clear. My mate and his wife are both gardai. She explained to me that she never tells her friends how much she earned (for whatever reason, perhaps to eradicate her friends jealously, she never actually explained why) but that the wages are very good with bits of O/T and that last year she pulled in 60+K . She is an office worker in the Gardai (not frontline). They have just bought another house also (along with the two they already own, which were bought in the last 10 years so they are not pre Tiger house prices).

I also was arguing with a teacher here on boards a while back (post was about article saying what average teacher earned) and she kept saying her take home figure rather than being honest and giving her gross salary like anyone else would do? Maybe their unions are telling them what to say to avoid the issues

NewDubliner

jimmmy wrote: »

Now, to get back to the thread point, anyone found a country in the world where the average p.s. wage is higher than in Ireland ?

I presume nobody gets to go home until you get the answer you want?

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

Well any teacher who is 30 years old (so still relatively young) should be on at least point 8 or 9 on the scale (depending on age, most don't start on point 1 so this is the very minimum) which is 43k to 44.5k, they then get an extra 1,300 for having th Hdip which as far as i'm aware you can't teach without, they get an extra 5,100 for having a hons degree which they all have, (there's an extra 5,100 for having a master but i won't include that), so thats a total of 50,900 for a level 9 which is EUR 978 per week. And they still have 15 points on the scale to increase by and that does not include head of year bonus, head of department bonus, exam supervision and/or marking, yard supervision etc etc etc.

These figures are readily availabe on the ASTI website so i am not making these up.

the reason they can't go down the pub with you is they are living in mansions they can't afford, paid way over the odds for houses they should never have purchased or else the apartment in Bulgaria is vacant and they are paying the mortgage on that as well

They're are no poor teachers in this country let me tell you

halkar

The 10 highest paid politicians in the world:

1. Lee Hsien Loong - Singapore
Salary in dollars - $2.47 million
Salary in local currency - S$3.76 million

2. Donald Tsang Yum-Kuen - Hong Kong

Salary in dollars - $516,000
Salary in local currency - HK$4 million

3. Barack Obama - United States
Salary in dollars - $400,000

4. Brian Cowen - Ireland
Salary in dollars - $341,000
Salary in local currency - €257,000

5. Nicolas Sarkozy - France
Salary in dollars - $318,000
Salary in local currency - €240,000

6. Angela Merkel - Germany
Salary in dollars - $303,000
Salary in local currency - €228,000

7. Gordon Brown - UK
Salary in dollars - $279,000
Salary in local currency - £194,250

8. Stephen Harper - Canada
Salary in dollars - $246,000
Salary in local currency - C$311,000

9. Taro Aso - Japan
Salary in dollars - $243,000
Salary in local currency - Y24 million

10. Kevin Rudd - Australia
Salary in dollars - $229,000
Salary in local currency - A$330,000

Link

nuff said

Darragh29

Tipp Man wrote: »

Well any teacher who is 30 years old (so still relatively young) should be on at least point 8 or 9 on the scale (depending on age, most don't start on point 1 so this is the very minimum) which is 43k to 44.5k, they then get an extra 1,300 for having th Hdip which as far as i'm aware you can't teach without, they get an extra 5,100 for having a hons degree which they all have, (there's an extra 5,100 for having a master but i won't include that), so thats a total of 50,900 for a level 9 which is EUR 978 per week. And they still have 15 points on the scale to increase by and that does not include head of year bonus, head of department bonus, exam supervision and/or marking, yard supervision etc etc etc.

These figures are readily availabe on the ASTI website so i am not making these up.

the reason they can't go down the pub with you is they are living in mansions they can't afford, paid way over the odds for houses they should never have purchased or else the apartment in Bulgaria is vacant and they are paying the mortgage on that as well

They're are no poor teachers in this country let me tell you

I don't know, I've mates who I know for sure have no investment properties and are not living in mansions, they might be living in modest houses in Dublin that they could have paid maybe 350-400K for. Some of these guys work in the public sector and appear to be broke.

Maybe we need to do a proper analysis on this and drill right down into the figures and see where the money is going and see what the story is here...

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

Here's my question... I've mates who are paramedics, nurses, gardai, social workers, teachers, none of them as far as I know are on 966 Euro a week or anywhere remotely near it. These people tell me they can't afford to go out for a pint on a Saturday night and are struggling to pay their mortgage...

I'd love to sit down and do the maths on this one...

A quick look at the nurses union website shows that the start of the scale for any standard nurse is 31,875 with 10 yearly increments going up as far as 46,501., so at the age of 32 (roughly) a nurse is earning 895 a week, but wait for it, this does not include any of the supplements that they get some of which are anti social hours from 6-8, a night duty premium, a saturday premium (time and half i think), a sunday premium (double time i think), pubic holiday premium (double time and extra holiday i think). I am not certian on all the premiums but they are not included anyway in the EUR895

My sister who is a nurse says the premiums give anything from 30-50% extra to her normal weekly pay packet and she does'nt go mad on working the nights, weekends etc

As with teachers there are no badly paid nurses in this country

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

I don't know, I've mates who I know for sure have no investment properties and are not living in mansions, they might be living in modest houses in Dublin that they could have paid maybe 350-400K for. Some of these guys work in the public sector and appear to be broke.

Maybe we need to do a proper analysis on this and drill right down into the figures and see where the money is going and see what the story is here...

Trust me i am not making up any of these numbers, please check them on the ASTI website and check the INO website for the nurses. all of my figures are facts, and i have not included items such as masters, doctorites etc which they get even more for. i have taken 30-32 year old average joe soap teachers and nurses

People just don't realise exactly how much all these guys (and ladies) are earning. but you have hit the nail on the head without knowing it, they have overpaid for their houses and now the manure is hitting the fan they are in trouble, big trouble

irish_bob

Tipp Man wrote: »

A quick look at the nurses union website shows that the start of the scale for any standard nurse is 31,875 with 10 yearly increments going up as far as 46,501., so at the age of 32 (roughly) a nurse is earning 895 a week, but wait for it, this does not include any of the supplements that they get some of which are anti social hours from 6-8, a night duty premium, a saturday premium (time and half i think), a sunday premium (double time i think), pubic holiday premium (double time and extra holiday i think). I am not certian on all the premiums but they are not included anyway in the EUR895

My sister who is a nurse says the premiums give anything from 30-50% extra to her normal weekly pay packet and she does'nt go mad on working the nights, weekends etc

As with teachers there are no badly paid nurses in this country

nurses are indeed incredibly well paid in this country , i have a cousin in wales who is several grades up the NHS system , he has been a nurse since around 1987 , he earns 33,000 pounds a year , baschically around 10% more than a nurse fresh into her 1st uniform here and as i said many times before , the uk is a richer country than ireland

Tipp Man

Darragh29 wrote: »

they might be living in modest houses in Dublin that they could have paid maybe 350-400K for. Some of these guys work in the public sector and appear to be broke.

I just want to pick up on this line, The fact is that most people shouldn't be paying 400k for a property, with fees, stamp duty, furnishing etc your talking 500k, thats easily written but it is half a million euro, yes HALF A MILLION euro, think about it, that is a serious amount of money to be indebted for and that is the problem, you have teachers, nurses, Gardai etc who have paid these ridiculous sums for property they should never have bought but were living way above their means

if these people are broke it is their own fault for paying too much for a house, NOT because they're wages aren't good enough for the job they do, fact is the majority are earning too much

NewDubliner

Tipp Man wrote: »

paid these ridiculous sums for property they should never have bought but were living way above their means

The banks loaned them money based on their salaries at the time. Now the banks & their private-sector chums are calling for salary cuts.

dodgyme

Tipp Man wrote: »

I just want to pick up on this line, The fact is that most people shouldn't be paying 400k for a property, with fees, stamp duty, furnishing etc your talking 500k, thats easily written but it is half a million euro, yes HALF A MILLION euro, think about it, that is a serious amount of money to be indebted for and that is the problem, you have teachers, nurses, Gardai etc who have paid these ridiculous sums for property they should never have bought but were living way above their means

as did alot of people who are now out of work. The Public Sector have it good by comparison to private sector.

Tipp Man wrote: »

fact is the majority are earning too much

agree but TBF house prices should never have been allowed to go so high and telling people its their fault is abit too much salt for people to deal with perhaps

Tipp Man

NewDubliner wrote: »

The banks loaned them money based on their salaries at the time. Now the banks & their private-sector chums are calling for salary cuts.

You keep harping on about the banks but do you not realise that YOU are responsible for your own finances, nobody forced you to pay a stupid amount for your house, YOU did it of your own free will, so take responsability for your actions

Would you pay 60k for a VW Golf?? Why not??

Tipp Man

dodgyme wrote: »

as did alot of people who are now out of work. The Public Sector have it good by comparison to private sector.

well the public sector have the job security, makes it a lot easier to get out of bed every morning knowing the job is 100% secure

dodgyme wrote: »

agree but TBF house prices should never have been allowed to go so high and telling people its their fault is abit too much salt for people to deal with perhaps

But if its not made abundently clear to them that THEY messed up you will keep getting people like New Dublin on here saying that its the banks fault that he's in debt up to his neck and he can't repay it.

If we are to learn anything from this mess, and by god we need to learn a lot, it surely has to be that everyone is responsible for their own finances and this business of passing the blame to banks, developers, goevernment, the dog, whoever is simply not right. if people don't learn that then in 10-15 years we'll be back to square 1 with people in a mess again. It is paramount that people learn from this, no matter how painful it is for them

ardmacha

i said many times before , the uk is a richer country than ireland

Indeed you have, along with many other repeated statements in lower case. Have you any figures that show that the UK is a richer country than Ireland?

Tipp Man

dodgyme wrote: »

I also was arguing with a teacher here on boards a while back (post was about article saying what average teacher earned) and she kept saying her take home figure rather than being honest and giving her gross salary like anyone else would do? Maybe their unions are telling them what to say to avoid the issues

This is an excellent point, whenever i see a public servant on here talking about their salary it turns out the number is their take home and NOT their gross, a typical ploy to play down exactly how much they are earning, so a girl who is talking about only earning 600 a week and being 350 under the AVERAGE is actually on 40k a year, poor her

NewDubliner

Tipp Man wrote: »

You keep harping on about the banks but do you not realise that YOU are responsible for your own finances, nobody forced you to pay a stupid amount for your house, YOU did it of your own free will, so take responsability for your actions

I trust you're not trying to make a comment on my personal financial position (of which you know nothing whatsoever and it's none of your business).... and when you say 'YOU', you really mean 'everyone except bankers and property developers'.

irish_bob

ardmacha wrote: »

Indeed you have, along with many other repeated statements in lower case. Have you any figures that show that the UK is a richer country than Ireland?

figures dont do much around here as thier usually dismissed as being distorted

is new zealand richer the australia

is austria richer than germany

is portugal richer than spain

ireland doesnt do anything which makes it stand apart as a small country , we are no switzerland , we had a freak of a property bubble which employed one in four in the private sector , our wealth for a brief period was virtual , not permanent , we have no real heavy industry of any kind , we are not rich in natural resources , agriculture still accounts for over 10% of GDP, i could go one but its pretty obvious that we are not as wealthy a country as the uk

caeser

speaking of teachers my wife is a teacher for 5 years since she left college. Her hours are from 9 til 2 (junior infants) she stays everyday til at least 4, comes home eats her dinner and goes directly into preparing work for the next day which may last 4 hours, she is stressed up to the eyeballs with 30 kids and worse still their parents. Question should be about value for money not overpaid. I have sympathy for nurses, gardai and emergency services personnel they go out day to work not knowing whether some crazed lunatic will attack them. In my opinion they are worth every penny of their salary!!:mad: