The Taoiseach, Brian Cowen rules out third Lisbon referendum

ei.sdraob

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/cowen-rules-out-third-lisbon-referendum-1900518.html

The Taoiseach, Brian Cowen, has insisted that the Government will not try to re-run the Lisbon Treaty referendum a third time if the electorate votes 'no' again on Friday.

Speaking at a press conference in Dublin today, Mr Cowen also reiterated his view that a 'yes' vote would help Ireland's economic recovery.

He said Friday's vote was about the future of the country and not about him personally or the Fianna Fail-led Government.

"I believe that the people of Ireland see this treaty next Friday as being about their future," he said. "It is not about any particular issue or controversy of the day.

"We face major challenges, we need to confront those challenges and move the country forward and part of doing that is adopting this treaty."

well that effectively puts a nail in the coffin of a certain NO side argument

dlofnep

ei.sdraob wrote: »

well that effectively puts a nail in the coffin of a certain NO side argument

Moot point really, isn't it? Consider it is already being re-run. Doesn't matter - the treaty will probably pass either way due to the scaremongering by the Yes campaign.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

moondogspot

Who said otherwise? There won't be a 3rd referendum because President Vaclav Klaus of the

Czech Republic & the British will more than likely sink it.

moogester

If Ireland votes no again i can see Poland refusing to ratify it too

free-man

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/cowen-rules-out-third-lisbon-referendum-1900518.html
well that effectively puts a nail in the coffin of a certain NO side argument

Hmm why don't I believe him?

""As far as I'm concerned, this treaty is a dead letter"
Dick Roche after the No result

"I think the Lisbon Treaty is dead. The Lisbon Treaty to be ratified requires 27 Member States to ratify it. The Irish people have now decided in a referendum that they do not wish to have it ratified therefore Ireland cannot ratify the Lisbon Treaty and therefore the Lisbon Treaty falls"
- Eamon Gilmore 13/06/08

"I don't think there's any question of this Treaty being put a second time to the people”
- Eamon Gilmore 13/06/08

"People have made a decision. The Lisbon Treaty cannot now be ratified. And I think that the decision that has been made by the Irish people has got to be respected by everybody. Got to be respected by the Taoiseach, by the Government, by the other Member States, by the political leadership in Brussels”
Eamon Gilmore 13/06/08

jhegarty

Doesn't matter.

Everyone knows there will be a no vote in the UK by the time we would go to the polls again.

This is their last chance ,and they know it.

Rb

Lol, perhaps instead of running a third referendum we could instead focus our efforts on creating a two tiered Ireland, one side in the EU and one side out. We could boot all the No voters over to the west. I'd imagine it would do fantastic things for the economy (of the good side).

ei.sdraob

Rb wrote: »

Lol, perhaps instead of running a third referendum we could instead focus our efforts on creating a two tiered Ireland, one side in the EU and one side out. We could boot all the No voters over to the west. I'd imagine it would do fantastic things for the economy (of the good side).

Hey i live in the west! To hell or to Connaught eh

Send them all to Tuam I say

soon to be renamed Ganleystan? or Ganleygrad?? by the comrade himself

:eek:

humanji

Considering the amount of people who decided to vote no because we were voting again, I'd say it'd be stupid to have a third vote. A third vote would have a record number of people voting no out of anger.

jhegarty

Rb wrote: »

Lol, perhaps instead of running a third referendum we could instead focus our efforts on creating a two tiered Ireland, one side in the EU and one side out. We could boot all the No voters over to the west. I'd imagine it would do fantastic things for the economy (of the good side).

You do understand that we are voting on the Lisbon treaty , not the treaty for Rome ?

sceptre

Picking on the journalist more than likely for not being precise (could be Cowen but I'll bet it was the journo), it's being re-run for the first time this coming friday. I hate imprecision and bad reporting, I'd take bad grammar all day in preference. Don't start touting that around by the way, the report obviously meant no more re-runs after Friday regardless of the unnamed journalist's slapworthy comment.

squod

ei.sdraob wrote: »

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/national-news/politics/cowen-rules-out-third-lisbon-referendum-1900518.html





well that effectively puts a nail in the coffin of a certain NO side argument

What's the problem, he's as good as said that if we vote 'yes', it goes to best out of three.

humanji

sceptre wrote: »

Picking on the journalist more than likely for not being precise (could be Cowen but I'll bet it was the journo), it's being re-run for the first time this coming friday. I hate imprecision and bad reporting, I'd take bad grammar all day in preference. Don't start touting that around by the way, the report obviously meant no more re-runs after Friday regardless of the unnamed journalist's slapworthy comment.

lol, so we will have a third referendum then! Hurrah!

Euro_Kraut

sceptre wrote: »

Picking on the journalist more than likely for not being precise (could be Cowen but I'll bet it was the journo), it's being re-run for the first time this coming friday. I hate imprecision and bad reporting, I'd take bad grammar all day in preference. Don't start touting that around by the way, the report obviously meant no more re-runs after Friday regardless of the unnamed journalist's slapworthy comment.

That kind of mistake really bugs me too. These guys are paid good money to be accurate.

Rb

jhegarty wrote: »

You do understand that we are voting on the Lisbon treaty , not the treaty for Rome ?

Your point being?

Also, the No voters aren't voting on the Treaty, they're voting on everything else they can find but certainly not the treaty itself.

caseyann

Funny some of the people i know are voting yes because they think now it wil save Ireland and we will sail out of recession in few days lmao
I have yet to talk to anyone who actually has any other reason to vote yes

truthisfree

caseyann wrote: »

Funny some of the people i know are voting yes because they think now it wil save Ireland and we will sail out of recession in few days lmao
I have yet to talk to anyone who actually has any other reason to vote yes

I have met people who believe that too, I am voting no, I read the treaty and do not like it. I think a No vote would be better but if it turns out yes I will console myself with knowing that I won't have to listen to the yes people blaming the no people for the depression that is on it's way.

Sad thing is, I really think the government think that when the recession really deepens that the EU is going to bail us out. Spain voted Yes and now their now "unemployed" army are on €100 a week!

caseyann

truthisfree wrote: »

I have met people who believe that too, I am voting no, I read the treaty and do not like it. I think a No vote would be better but if it turns out yes I will console myself with knowing that I won't have to listen to the yes people blaming the no people for the depression that is on it's way.

Sad thing is, I really think the government think that when the recession really deepens that the EU is going to bail us out. Spain voted Yes and now their now "unemployed" army are on €100 a week!

Others i know are voting yes because they don't understand it and someone they know said its a good idea i.e husband friend etc.. lol

Lets hope it doesn't deepen

Yeah i noticed that look at what the EU has given us and done for us,but look at what the Irish people did for the last ten years,and what our government did to what Irish built.

truthisfree

caseyann wrote: »

Others i know are voting yes because they don't understand it and someone they know said its a good idea i.e husband friend etc.. lol

Lets hope it doesn't deepen

Yeah i noticed that look at what the EU has given us and done for us,but look at what the Irish people did for the last ten years,and what our government did to what Irish built.

That's how I feel and very strongly, I have worked hard in this country, employed people and manufactured and exported goods to Europe without any help from the government whatsoever. I am sick of this begging bowl mentality, would rather be poorer and have some pride in my country.

Rb

caseyann wrote: »

I have yet to talk to anyone who actually has any other reason to vote yes

That says more about the company you keep than anything else.

You clearly aren't reading these forums, as I've yet to see one Yes voter without a legitimate reason posting here.

Oh and I notice that you dodged replying to this post here http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62316327&postcount=100 where you were caught trying to pass off someone elses article as your own opinion/research. How embarrassing.

truthisfree

If my memory serves me correctly, Cowen and certainly Sarkozy said before the last referendum that there would not be a second referendum.

Not that it matters now what Cowen did, or did not say.

Rb

Perhaps, but then they did what any good leader would do and sit down and find a solution to the problem. Now that they have, we get to vote again.

No point in moaning about it really.

Sully

dlofnep wrote: »

Moot point really, isn't it? Consider it is already being re-run. Doesn't matter - the treaty will probably pass either way due to the scaremongering by the Yes campaign.

Excuse me?! Scaremongering?!! The No side are basing their campaign effectively on just that. Look at your party for example;

- Lisbon = Lower Wages. Man with empty pockets.

- Lisbon = Crushing Family Farms. Man stamping on a tractor.

- Lisbon = More Military Spending. Three big tanks and army trucks (ie war scene - an ironic poster from SF!).

How in the name of god is that not scaremongering? The imagery and creativity (which I must applaud your designers for - a much more impressive design then the whole "Get a better deal in Europe. Vote No" ****e) in those posters are done with the aim of people reading, believing and being freaked out. If I was a farmer with little knowledge on Lisbon, I think that poster would freak me out - I would hate to see my lifeline business for myself and my kids "crused" by Lisbon (as SF put it).

Lets look at Libertas - a little girl crying! Geez any poor chap, again with no knowledge on Lisbon, would be swayed by the sight of a poor girl (possibly his kids into the future) crying if Lisbon gets in.

Oh and Coir, who have scared the working class people in Ireland (and others of course) into thinking Lisbon Treaty will drop their wages down to €1.84 at a time when many find the €8.65 a fecking struggle. Of course that would scare many student and worker ****less to think they could see a big drop in their wages.

Ya, No side are really the innocent folk in this campaign. :rolleyes:

The Yes to Jobs/Recovery is based on the EU supporting us in general and how they would see us if we rejected the treaty. As a Yes campaigner, I and many other Yes campaigners, have rejected the belief we will be kicked out of Europe. Even the EU have came out and said it publicly and in response to a question from SF that we wont be kicked out. The problem is how other countrys may see us if we reject it (with Microsoft already looking at how we vote, I do believe) and the whole FDI (I am aware of one company that relies on FDI and has expressed concern about how other countrys are using our No vote to put others off investing here). Also, what the EU would do - ratify and leave us a bit to the side, so not as much in the heart of the EU?

The Yes side had a ****e campaign for Lisbon I, with the No campaign scaring the ****e out of people (eg abortion, euthensia etc) to succeed. The Yes side came back into Lisbon II with an improvement (not great improvement imo) and spoke about how we could be seen if we reject, how the EU has given us money and helped us during the recession, how it has helped create jobs etc. and the No side have the cheek to say that the Yes side are scaring the Irish people into a Yes?!

The Irish people will vote now based on being informed and not listening to any one side. Research proved Lisbon I was rejected not because of the contents of Lisbon, but because of the fear put in them by the No camp, lack of understanding and hitting out at FF. New research seems to indicate a shift in this with more people learning about the treaty and making an informed decession when going to vote this Friday. The No side are seeing this and are blaming the Yes side (much like Yes did against No during/after Lisbon I) for them loosing voters.

truthisfree

Sully wrote: »

Excuse me?! Scaremongering?!! The No side are basing their campaign effectively on just that. Look at your party for example;

- Lisbon = Lower Wages. Man with empty pockets.

- Lisbon = Crushing Family Farms. Man stamping on a tractor.

- Lisbon = More Military Spending. Three big tanks and army trucks (ie war scene - an ironic poster from SF!).

How in the name of god is that not scaremongering? The imagery and creativity (which I must applaud your designers for - a much more impressive design then the whole "Get a better deal in Europe. Vote No" ****e) in those posters are done with the aim of people reading, believing and being freaked out. If I was a farmer with little knowledge on Lisbon, I think that poster would freak me out - I would hate to see my lifeline business for myself and my kids "crused" by Lisbon (as SF put it).

Lets look at Libertas - a little girl crying! Geez any poor chap, again with no knowledge on Lisbon, would be swayed by the sight of a poor girl (possibly his kids into the future) crying if Lisbon gets in.

Oh and Coir, who have scared the working class people in Ireland (and others of course) into thinking Lisbon Treaty will drop their wages down to €1.84 at a time when many find the €8.65 a fecking struggle. Of course that would scare many student and worker ****less to think they could see a big drop in their wages.

Ya, No side are really the innocent folk in this campaign. :rolleyes:

The Yes to Jobs/Recovery is based on the EU supporting us in general and how they would see us if we rejected the treaty. As a Yes campaigner, I and many other Yes campaigners, have rejected the belief we will be kicked out of Europe. Even the EU have came out and said it publicly and in response to a question from SF that we wont be kicked out. The problem is how other countrys may see us if we reject it (with Microsoft already looking at how we vote, I do believe) and the whole FDI (I am aware of one company that relies on FDI and has expressed concern about how other countrys are using our No vote to put others off investing here). Also, what the EU would do - ratify and leave us a bit to the side, so not as much in the heart of the EU?

The Yes side had a ****e campaign for Lisbon I, with the No campaign scaring the ****e out of people (eg abortion, euthensia etc) to succeed. The Yes side came back into Lisbon II with an improvement (not great improvement imo) and spoke about how we could be seen if we reject, how the EU has given us money and helped us during the recession, how it has helped create jobs etc. and the No side have the cheek to say that the Yes side are scaring the Irish people into a Yes?!

The Irish people will vote now based on being informed and not listening to any one side. Research proved Lisbon I was rejected not because of the contents of Lisbon, but because of the fear put in them by the No camp, lack of understanding and hitting out at FF. New research seems to indicate a shift in this with more people learning about the treaty and making an informed decession when going to vote this Friday. The No side are seeing this and are blaming the Yes side (much like Yes did against No during/after Lisbon I) for them loosing voters.

What you are not taking into account is that the vast majority of no voters are not represented by any of the no campaigns out there, At a guess i would say that 80-90% of the no voters are just like myself, no party affiliations whatsoever, not now, not ever in my life. The yes side had both the yes campaign and from what I could see most of the no campaign working for them. (not to be taken literally )

The resulting no vote on friday will be a whole lot of people like myself who read the treaty, and ploughed through reams of documentation and forums and newspapers to learn about it, and came to the conclusion that it is wrong for us.

Sully

truthisfree wrote: »

What you are not taking into account is that the vast majority of no voters are not represented by any of the no campaigns out there, At a guess i would say that 80-90% of the no voters are just like myself, no party affiliations whatsoever, not now, not ever in my life. The yes side had both the yes campaign and from what I could see most of the no campaign working for them. (not to be taken literally )

I am not talking (mainly) about the voters. I refer to the campaigners, where the No side are now blaiming the Yes side for what looks like a possible loss in the referendum.

The resulting no vote on friday will be a whole lot of people like myself who read the treaty, and ploughed through reams of documentation and forums and newspapers to learn about it, and came to the conclusion that it is wrong for us.

So you think its No part deux? Ignoring opinion polls which suggest a different trend?

I was at a debate today where a women told us she voted against the EU and every single treaty, including Lisbon I. But, she is switching to "Yes" for Lisbon II after weighing up what the treaty offers, on her own, and beliving its right for the country afterall. Similary, the workers party seemed to disagree with a lot of other No side campaigns (they had their own No reasons, but disagreed with others spouted).

caseyann

Rb wrote: »

That says more about the company you keep than anything else.

You clearly aren't reading these forums, as I've yet to see one Yes voter without a legitimate reason posting here.

Oh and I notice that you dodged replying to this post here http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62316327&postcount=100 where you were caught trying to pass off someone elses article as your own opinion/research. How embarrassing.

Rb dont think you are so smart I never said a thing about it been mine did i :rolleyes: and i did not even see that post for your information.You asked for valid reasons with attachments of the Treaty inside and i gave it to you.
I commented on what was said in it.;)
The people i am around actually dear are people who own businesses in Ireland and its their wives who are voting yes.And the only reason they are handing out is oh will get us out of recession and we will have stronger voice in Europe.
One Business man today said he is a no voter its a load of baloney

p.s wow you have alot of time searching out what i copy and pasted

nesf

Rb wrote: »

You clearly aren't reading these forums, as I've yet to see one Yes voter without a legitimate reason posting here.

I'm sorry to say that I have and that I've no doubt that a substantial number of people will vote Yes tomorrow simply because FF/FG or Labour says so. You will always have sheep on both sides of any referendum.

caseyann

nesf wrote: »

I'm sorry to say that I have and that I've no doubt that a substantial number of people will vote Yes tomorrow simply because FF/FG or Labour says so. You will always have sheep on both sides of any referendum.

That because he is a yes voter,no voters must be thick or following ganley,But majority of yes voters is because they have read the treaty and understand ever nook and cranny

Why do we need the Lisbon Treaty when it will be all same anyway except EU commission will have more control over Ireland.


nesf whats the part about the 27 voting on who gets what money and how much of a budget they will get?

nesf

caseyann wrote: »

Why do we need the Lisbon Treaty when it will be all same anyway except EU commission will have more control over Ireland

Eh, no.

Rb

caseyann wrote:

Rb dont think you are so smart I never said a thing about it been mine did i and i did not even see that post for your information.You asked for valid reasons with attachments of the Treaty inside and i gave it to you.
I commented on what was said in it.
The people i am around actually dear are people who own businesses in Ireland and its their wives who are voting yes.And the only reason they are handing out is oh will get us out of recession and we will have stronger voice in Europe.
One Business man today said he is a no voter its a load of baloney

p.s wow you have alot of time searching out what i copy and pasted

No, sorry, you didn't reference the document at all. I asked you for a reason, I didn't ask those people who you failed to even mention, so it is taken that you were passing it off as your own.

Nice use of the smilies though, I'll give you that. That is, of course, assuming you were aiming to make the post look as moronic as possible.

Nesf wrote:

I'm sorry to say that I have and that I've no doubt that a substantial number of people will vote Yes tomorrow simply because FF/FG or Labour says so. You will always have sheep on both sides of any referendum.

Well, my comment was targetting caseyann's claim of having not seen a Yes voter put forward an argument in favour of the treaty apart from the FF/FG slogans, hence I said that they must not have been reading the forums as there is a huge number of Yes voters with absolutely legitimate, treaty based reasons for the way they are voting.

I'm sure people will vote as their party tells them to, but that's still a damn sight better than listening to the words of Coir or the UKIP.