Worst cycle facilities in Ireland

tomasrojo

As an off-shoot of Documenting Dublin's Cycle Lanes, I thought it would be nice to have all the worst facilities in one thread.

Here are two classics, culled from Boards itself:




Can anyone do better?

ednwireland

dcont need photo's - dont have any cycle facilities not even a bike rack in the town

Doctor Bob

I'd be particularly keen to see examples from the main inter-urban roads. They're not routes I cycle at all frequently- town boy 90% of the time.

blorg

That first one is the Drumartin Link road up to Sandyford, right? That is actually one of the best cycle lanes in Dublin in my opinion, I cycle it every day. That new junction could be better designed but to be honest with the traffic flow patterns it is not hard to navigate whether you want to go left or straight on.

The one up by the Beacon is far worse, they have put in bollards that cause the left turning lane to just sweep around at speed although the cycle track goes straight on.



Example overtake and immediate turn left:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZykTnzyETQ

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

That first one is the Drumartin Link road up to Sandyford, right? That is actually one of the best cycle lanes in Dublin in my opinion, I cycle it every day. That new junction could be better designed but to be honest with the traffic flow patterns it is not hard to navigate whether you want to go left or straight on.

It is that one. Sorry, should have said where it was. The reason I included it is because the facility makes no sense. The local authorities have conceded that the cyclist is supposed to dismount and walk to the pedestrian island if they want to go straight on (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62253864&postcount=104).

Jumpy

tomasrojo wrote: »

As an off-shoot of Documenting Dublin's Cycle Lanes, I thought it would be nice to have all the worst facilities in one thread.

Here are two classics, culled from Boards itself:




Can anyone do better?

Yes, but I dont have a photo. Try cycling through Dalys Cross between Limerick and Birdhill.

Its a dirt and gravel path with potholes and a cycle sign above it.

tomasrojo

The Youtube footage makes your point on the Beacon junction very well.

blorg

tomasrojo wrote: »

It is that one. Sorry, should have said where it was. The reason I included it is because the facility makes no sense. The local authorities have conceded that the cyclist is supposed to dismount and walk to the pedestrian island if they want to go straight on (http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62253864&postcount=104).

Right, yes, it makes no sense all right if you comply with the letter of the law, I just cycle over the pedestrian island if I am going straight on and have never had any problems. It is a bad junction design certainly.

It is however a testament to how good that cycle track is in general that I am on it in the first place, it is relatively rare that a cycle track is good enough that I will actually use it.

smilingeyerish

I take that same route by the Beacon going home every evening and its the one bit of my journey that I really hate

some cars are good and slow down and let you by, some cars are even parked on the lane waiting to turn left and they actually have reversed off the cycle path for me but most of the drivers barely even see you and just zoom around the corner making it fairly dangerous.

-K2-

There is a similar situation across from Jury's/D4 Hotels heading towards the city from Ballsbridge. Cars move into the bus lane and shoot left up Pembroke Road, frequently cutting up cyclists:

http://tinyurl.com/ydxlegv

Doctor Bob

ElectronEng wrote: »

There is a similar situation across from Jury's/D4 Hotels heading towards the city from Ballsbridge. Cars move into the bus lane and shoot left up Pembroke Road, frequently cutting up cyclists:

http://tinyurl.com/ydxlegv

There's another dangerous aspect of that junction- when cycling from Lansdowne Road to Pembroke Road past the little kiosk, the cars using that slip road (the 'shoot left') often don't yield to cyclists. A speed hump was put in some time ago, which improved the situation, but not enough.

tomasrojo

ElectronEng wrote: »

There is a similar situation across from Jury's/D4 Hotels heading towards the city from Ballsbridge. Cars move into the bus lane and shoot left up Pembroke Road, frequently cutting up cyclists:

http://tinyurl.com/ydxlegv

I guess for that one you'd have to get out of the cycle lane and take a position somewhat in the main traffic lane to discourage them from cutting you up; make them aware of you.

Lumen

If Google would hurry up with the Streetview (spotted near my house) this process of crap cycle lane identification would be a bit quicker.

-K2-

tomasrojo wrote: »

I guess for that one you'd have to get out of the cycle lane and take a position somewhat in the main traffic lane to discourage them from cutting you up; make them aware of you.

Exactly: I move into the centre of the bus lane from a long distance away from the turn.

ullu

An overhead view is the best I can do as I'm not usually in the area but you can see where the cycle lane abruptly ends here in Kilmacud.

If you use it, the road itself is too narrow to merge onto safely so you would generally have to stop to wait for cars to pass before continuing on your way.

tomasrojo

ullu wrote: »

An overhead view is the best I can do as I'm not usually in the area but you can see where the cycle lane abruptly ends here in Kilmacud.

If you use it, the road itself is too narrow to merge onto safely so you would generally have to stop to wait for cars to pass before continuing on your way.

That whole facility on the Upper Kilmacud road is rubbish. If you scroll a little further east, you can see how it passes on the inside of Stop lines of sideroads and exitways.

And then, as you say, it just ends for no apparent reason. I always use the road going that way. In fact, I tend to use the Lower Kilmacud road, since it doesn't have any cycle lanes on it.

blorg

Oh! Oh! The one running through Templeogue village is an absolute classic.

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

Oh! Oh! The one running through Templeogue village is an absolute classic.

Do you have a picture illustrating its particular charms?

DirkVoodoo

Any of those ones where the cycle lane disappears into a left hand turn, so you have to quickly get away from all the left turning traffic, cut across the lane and back into the cycle lane that has now moved across an entire lane. There are two examples of this in either direction near Waterloo road and Morehampton road.

tomasrojo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Any of those ones where the cycle lane disappears into a left hand turn, so you have to quickly get away from all the left turning traffic, cut across the lane and back into the cycle lane that has now moved across an entire lane. There are two examples of this in either direction near Waterloo road and Morehampton road.

I think that's the most common design flaw. The lanes should really not continue into the junction if they're going to place you on the left of left-turning traffic.

lukester

tomasrojo wrote: »

Do you have a picture illustrating its particular charms?

IIRC the outbound lane runs along the footpad beside shops, a pub, possibly a bus stop.

Cue thirsty/sugar seeking/drunk peds lurching across your path, wondering why the f*ck you're cycling on the footpad in the first place.

Hilarious.

eoineen

I had the pleasure of cycling to Inchicore from Glasnevin recently and there's a cracker at the Luas and traffic crossover at St James's Hospital main entrance. No picture for now but the cycle lane curves toward the hospital for five metres, goes across the Luas tracks and then has a yield sign for cyclists to allow the car traffic you have just sat alongside at the lights, the right of way. Crackers!

tomasrojo

I think the point of that lane is to allow you to cross the tracks at about 90 degrees. My worst spill happened when trying to keep to the main traffic lane there in the rain. I tried my hardest to cross the tracks at 90 degrees and instead the bike disappeared from under me (nothing to do with the wheel getting stuck in the tracks, but because of the extreme slipperiness of the tracks in the wet). Split the skin just under my knee open.

I heard a doctor from St. James's say on the radio that they treat quite a few cyclists for minor injuries suffered at the entrance. His solution? Not to redesign the entrance, but for all cyclists to wear helmets. But of course. My knee would have thanked me.

I now use Steeven's Lane/Kilmainham Lane, and avoid both that entrance and the bit of St. James's Road that runs up to it. On that stretch of road, keeping to the left of the tracks results in very close passes by motorists; going between the tracks means that you have to go at a fair speed to keep up with the motorists and then split your knee at the other end in the rain (ahem).

topper75

Bóthar na dTreabh in Galway as you go downhill to the Kirwan roundabout.

There are mysterious works on the cycle path for over a year now and I never see workmen there.

tomasrojo

If people have photos of these facilities, it would be a great help in making their asininity manifest.

eoineen

Yes, must commit to that the next time.

morninwood

the reason for all them ridiculous cycle path layouts IMO is that some car driving council official who never used a bike in his life is in charge of designing them.

Harrybelafonte

The junction of Clonliffe and Drumcondra road is another of this, cycle lane ends up in the left turn only lane and drivers have a tendency to think you're turning left instead of going straigh ahead, caused a close call for me this morning. I'm just lucky I was expecting them to turn into me.

markpb

Harrybelafonte wrote: »

The junction of Clonliffe and Drumcondra road is another of this, cycle lane ends up in the left turn only lane and drivers have a tendency to think you're turning left instead of going straigh ahead, caused a close call for me this morning. I'm just lucky I was expecting them to turn into me.

I complained to DCC QBN about that very junction. This was their reply:

This arrangement is common practice, well established, and is widely used throughout the city. To say that it is very dangerous for cyclists who are going straight ahead, full-stop, is unreasonable! [...] I appreciate that you have identified a potential conflict point, and that possibly form your own experience, you may have had cause to have been frustrated on one or two occasions due to inconsiderate motorised road users turning left onto Clonliffe Road. However, the use of cycle track road markings at this location is, in all the circumstances, duly considered to be the best option. The indication above of the proposed placement of red-surfacing to the cycle track, will make this arrangement more beneficial for cyclists.

tomasrojo

These condescending replies are quite infuriating.

None of these facilities meet best practices, unless DCC are deciding that what they do is, de facto, best practice.

Mandating that any road user that is trying to go straight ahead should place themselves to the left of left-turning traffic is mental, "full-stop", to use the parlance of our DCC friends. Would he try the same manoeuvre in a car placed to the left of left-turning HGVs?

tomasrojo

I just realised what junction you're talking about; it's going south on Drumcondra road, passing the face of Clonliffe Road?

I would never, never, place myself any further left than the centre of the leftmost traffic lane.

Bunnyhopper

That DCC response is depressingly patronising. I wonder does whoever wrote it ever cycle around Dublin. I can only take it as an indication that they haven't got a clue about the situations they're actually putting people in on the ground, and as long as it looks nice in the manuals and runs smoothly in the simulations then that'll do just fine.

tomasrojo

A quick google shows that this design does not conform to best practice (duh):
http://www.labreform.org/blunders/b5.html

This intersection essentially violates recommendations in the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices [4], which says (page 9C-4): A through bicycle lane shall not be positioned to the right of a right turn only lane. The MUTCD also says: An optional through-right turn lane next to a right turn only lane should not be used where there is a through bicycle lane. If a capacity analysis indicates the need for an optional through-right turn lane, the bicycle lane should be discontinued at the intersection approach.

MUTCD = Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, Part 9 Traffic Controls for Bicycle Facilities.
(Since it's the USA, substitute left for right)

This is highly relevant too:

Hiding Behind Standards

Standards can not replace competence and knowledge by those who design bicycle facilities. This is especially critical when the standards have dangerous flaws such as the Guide for the Development of Bicycle Facilities [3]. Engineers are expected to do professional work as experts in their field [9]. However, we often see planners and engineers hide negligent bicycle facilities work behind weak standards.

Gavin

From reading the reply, the DCC person seems semi-illiterate and is probably replying on their own initiative, without consulting anyone who actually has some facts.

Shockingly poorly written response.

tomasrojo

And the DCC (or their minion who might be off on a solo run with this) obviously is not in accord with the Department of Transport, who DO see a problem with facilities like that:

http://www.google.ie/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=2&ved=0CA8QFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.smartertravel.ie%2Fdownload%2F1%2F0902%252002%2520EnglishNS1274%2520Dept.%2520of%2520Transport_National_Cycle_Policy_v4.pdf&rct=j&q=department+of+transport+cycling+transport+document&ei=R3rgSoKvCMyhjAeI-LWlBg&usg=AFQjCNEDRN_MmDRDmwY6cGhKyJZ8kzBVUg

We will revoke the Statutory Instrument that requires cyclists
to use cycle tracks where they are provided - Road Traffic
(Traffic and Parking) Amendment Regulations, S.I. No. 274 (1998).
This regulation is unsatisfactory for a number of reasons:
(i) it is clear that the cycling infrastructure that has been constructed
to date is often of a poor standard and is poorly maintained, and
cyclists are required to use it;
(ii) it can force cyclists to be on cycle tracks and (when they are planning
on continuing straight ahead) to be on the inside of left-turning
vehicles, including Heavy Goods Vehicles;
(iii) if a group of cyclists (on a weekend cycle for example) is using a road
with an off-road cycle-track alongside it, then they are required to use
it – which is not practicable.

tomasrojo

This farce is on Doughiska Road in Galway city.

Opposition to this one was stiff, right from the planning stages, and I assume it's obvious to everyone why.

The blocking of one lane by a sign selling 10kg of something or other is a temporary feature, I'm sure.

It seems that every avenue to stop this was explored, including lodging formal fitness-to-practice complaints against the engineers who carried out the road safety audit (one of whom had previously worked on Sustrans routes in Scotland). However, both individuals were cleared by their respective professional bodies. It's bizarre that anyone with any expertise in this area could give their approval to a design associated with greatly elevated risk of collision.

Galway City Council has refused three freedom-of-information requests seeking the qualifications of the engineers who designed this, on the grounds that it's personal information.

So, once local authorities and city councils take it into their heads to build counter-productive, slow, hazardous and insulting facilities, it seems that you can't stop them, or even get any insight into who did the design and why.

Block (8

Looking at that pic I really wouldn't really know how to cycle in those lanes!

And if I have to stop every couple of feet I'll probably fall off my bike knowing my luck with cleats :rolleyes:

Bunnyhopper

And if you didn't fall off you'd have to dismount and walk the section where the cycle lane disappears beside the bus stop, that or cycle on the footpad.

Is there signage up making that a mandatory cycle lane?

I suppose that the risk and convenience in any given cycle facility design may be counterintuitive - so it might look counter-productive, slow, hazardous and insulting but in fact be protecting and helping us all without our even knowing it. We should probably accept that the local authorities are wise and benevolent beyond our understanding.*





*This comment was produced in a facility where sarcasm is present and cannot be guaranteed to be free of sarcasm or bitter cynicism. If you have a sarcasm allergy then we really care, we really really do.

Harrybelafonte

tomasrojo wrote: »

I just realised what junction you're talking about; it's going south on Drumcondra road, passing the face of Clonliffe Road?

I would never, never, place myself any further left than the centre of the leftmost traffic lane.

I think one of the other problems with that lane is that there's a bus stop as it opens so some cars swerve quite suddenly into it after passing a bus. You're spot on about centering yourself in the lane, but as per above and my own example some cars are going to be parallel and trying to turn.

As for the DCC response, it does sound very unprofessional, there's almost an irate tone to it. I'd personally write back and make that point. Did you get a name? Maybe take all the references made here about best practice and send them back.

The example given from Galway makes me think of some child somewhere saying "Well they wanted there cycle lanes, so we gave them to them. I hope there happy" *stamps feet*

tomasrojo

I did a quick bit of research on the Doughiska Road facillity. Overall, cyclists are required to stop and yield to turning motorists at eighteen junctions on a 1.4km stretch of road. There are also 41 private driveways crossing the facility.

SerialComplaint

tomasrojo wrote: »

This farce is on Doughiska Road in Galway city.

Opposition to this one was stiff, right from the planning stages, and I assume it's obvious to everyone why.

The blocking of one lane by a sign selling 10kg of something or other is a temporary feature, I'm sure.

It seems that every avenue to stop this was explored, including lodging formal fitness-to-practice complaints against the engineers who carried out the road safety audit (one of whom had previously worked on Sustrans routes in Scotland). However, both individuals were cleared by their respective professional bodies. It's bizarre that anyone with any expertise in this area could give their approval to a design associated with greatly elevated risk of collision.

Galway City Council has refused three freedom-of-information requests seeking the qualifications of the engineers who designed this, on the grounds that it's personal information.

So, once local authorities and city councils take it into their heads to build counter-productive, slow, hazardous and insulting facilities, it seems that you can't stop them, or even get any insight into who did the design and why.

That's a beaut - have you considered trying to get any councillors involved in trying to get it sorted?

tomasrojo

SerialComplaint wrote: »

That's a beaut - have you considered trying to get any councillors involved in trying to get it sorted?

Hi @SerialComplaint. It's not really my jurisdiction; I live in Dublin, so it doesn't affect me directly. But the Galway Cycling Campagin fought it tooth and nail from the planning stage all the way until it was finally built. The council just pushed it through. They are unlikely to want to amelilorate it, thereby admitting that they were wrong all along and the GCC was right.

IM0

Im confused all bikepaths in and around Dublin are a shambles arent they?
certainly Ive seen, and most are illegal too.

stopped_clock

tomasrojo wrote: »

This farce is on Doughiska Road in Galway city....

Thanks a lot for posting that tomosrojo: I've been meaning to for a while.

That thing is ridiculous. For those not familiar with the area, it's basically a residential road in suburban Galway with a lot of new housing estates off it.

I don't know how obvious it is from the pic, but the on-path cycle lanes tend to end abruptly, leaving you either cycling on the footpath or dropping off a high enough kerb on to the road. (I've only ever driven past, while shaking my head.) The cycle-path goes up and down past driveways and through bus stops. I've never seen anyone cycling on it, but have seen lots of people walking in it (I don't blame them for this - in my view it's a footpad!).

Also, cars are regularly parked on the footpath/cycle path because there's no space to park them on the road. Had they just installed a wider road, it would have been ideal for cycling!

It's a pain in the head to drive on as well. There's so much going on visually that there's a sense of information overload.

What's most galling about that stretch of road is that it's obvious that a lot of effort has been expended in providing cycling facilities which are really really awful.

tomasrojo

@stopped_clock, is it legally a cycle track (i.e. you can't legally use the road next to it)?

Does it have this sign?

blorg

tomasrojo wrote: »

This farce is on Doughiska Road in Galway city. ... Overall, cyclists are required to stop and yield to turning motorists at eighteen junctions on a 1.4km stretch of road. There are also 41 private driveways crossing the facility.

That one is just incredible. Utterly disgraceful that the flaws were pointed out clearly by a cycling group before construction but they just pressed ahead anyway.

tomasrojo

me@ucd wrote: »

Im confused all bikepaths in and around Dublin are a shambles arent they?
certainly Ive seen, and most are illegal too.

Certainly, most require you to pass on the left, which may be illegal in certain scenarios, if the cycle track isn't legally a separate lane. The whole issue of legality and illegallity in terms of cycle tracks seems to be extremely ill-defined.

There are no binding national standards anyway, and the original handbook of design used by local authorities was just a list of every possible design tried anywhere (pretty much).

tomasrojo

blorg wrote: »

That one is just incredible. Utterly disgraceful that the flaws were pointed out clearly by a cycling group before construction but they just pressed ahead anyway.

It's a strong contender for Worst Facility, I think, especially as its many shortcomings were known long before it was built.

Chips Lovell

tomasrojo wrote: »

It's a strong contender for Worst Facility, I think, especially as its many shortcomings were known long before it was built.

Agreed. I was laughing out loud when I saw that one.

tomasrojo

I also have found out that the designer had in mind that cyclists should stop at the pedestrian lights (visible in the photo) when pedestrians were waiting to cross (as the pedestrian would be standing on the cycle track) and then proceed once the pedestrians had cleared the facility. So that would mean stopping when the traffic lights were green for traffic and then proceeding once they'd turned red.

I need to lie down.

petethedrummer

Oh my god. Thats amazing. You should frame that photo and send it to the roads department of Galway County(?) Council, with a big hearty note of congratulations.