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Everybody against Cuts!
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Very few staff get Christmas bonuses. I swear a lot of public servants (not you) reckon the private sector is made up of hot shot traders and dot com millionaires
It seems you are right and nobody in the private sector was making good money during the boom. Amazing really.I did a bonus for a few years as in banking it's the done thing. But feck it, you work 14 hours days every month end to get it.
Do you work these hours in your job? I hope not
Outside of banking I'm not sure who else gets a bonus
I'm not targeting people who got bonuses. I'm talking in general about those non-existent people in the private sector who made good money but it seems they didn't. Who knew?Anyway, benchmarking was supposed to address your point. You get raises and we will see if any cuts happen. When the good times roll you can lobby for more raises
I'm a Web Developer who has developed very large scale applications both for in-house use and our external websites. We don't have project teams because we are small scale so we do these applications on our own. Benchmarking meant a few extra bob but it was never going to compare me to a project dev in the private sector just whatever office grade I was analogous to.
That was fine. I made my choice and stayed in the public sector when it was quite possible I could earn much more doing contract work in the private sector. Someone is bound to claim the money wasn't that good but it was. As I said I made a choice. Enough of a salary to live reasonably well (second-hand car, affordable housing etc.) and be home by 6 most evenings to have some time to myself. Fair swap to me.
Now we have tough times and I am completely serious when I say I will take another pay cut if necessary but what irritates me is the general tone of bile towards the PS. I lost my pension so should you and so on.
I give far more credence to those who may have criticised the PS during the boom as it was obvious to many then that it was ridiculous how bloated it was just as it was obvious that grabbing every patch of grass to build something on was a bad idea.
I don't like the way the unions are talking because I can see it's a simple case of maths. The cost of the PS has to go down. No two ways about it and I hope some sense will prevail and people will talk it out.
Yes I will take a pay cut again despite the fact that I feel I am well worth the salary I am currently on while many others aren't so it will be a bitter bill either way and it's just salt on the wound when you see the bile being thrown around on the continual threads about the PS.0 -
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IMO anyone who earns >50k is well paid.
This includes me and I would advocate and accept the following:
- child welfare abolished for well paid.
- early childcare supplement/free early school year - abolished
- 10 cents extra on petrol IF is is ringfenced to improve public transport
- property tax of ~500 a year if stamp duty abolished
Thats about €3200 a year out of my pocket (wow - thats a lot when I look at it that way).
I will be willing to do this if:
- senior public sector (including politicians) earning >150k have a 25% pay decrease, >100k=15%, >50k=10%, >35k=5%, >20k 3%
- social welfare cut of 5%
- minimum wage cut to western Europe average
There is probably a lot more other things I would like to see, but I think that if we can reduce the wages across the board, prices would fall likewise and we would all be better off. Its all about competitiveness!
I have read countless threads like these over the past while on Boards and usually I wouldn't bother replying but this post really caught me.
I presume that the poster is a private sector worker. I am a worker in the Public sector and one of the few who would fall into the the same category as the poster above as earning >50K per year. And yes I would consider myself to be fairly well paid
I have to agree with all the cuts below:- child welfare abolished for well paid.
- early childcare supplement/free early school year - abolished
- 10 cents extra on petrol IF is is ringfenced to improve public transport
- property tax of ~500 a year if stamp duty abolished
[\quote]
In fact I'd probably go one further and abolish child welfare payments altogether.
I agree that loosing €3200 extra a year is fairly substantial! This got me thinking as to what all of the recent levies and taxes have done to my take home pay. So, today being pay day I took my payslip and compared it to the payslip I received dated the 2/10/08 to see what the difference would be.
I was actually surprised to see that my net take home pay has been reduced by exactly 17% since this time last year! This is even more surprising when you take into consideration that I have actually received a pay increment in that time!
I do agree that there needs to be cuts, but I don't agree with the poster above who states that all those public servants earning >50K should automatically take a further 10% of a pay cut. Everyone is saying that EVERYBODY needs to take cuts. Well the message coming through loud and clear above is that the poster is willing for everyone to take cuts but only as long as those in the public sector take a substanial amount more.
Why should I take a 10% further hit on my salary while you don't?
What people in the private sector (and I have worked there) don't realise, is that it is not possible for an individual employee in the public sector to negotiate individual terms and conditions the way it is possible in the private sector.
For example, in the company I worked in prior to working in the public sector I am still in contact with a number of employees. A number of them have told me that they have had to take a 10% pay cut this year despite the fact the company is still making huge profits. However there are one or 2 people in the company who have managed to negotiate 5-10% pay increases! The reason for this is that A) they have the ability to do so because they are not tied into a generic grading system like those of us in the public sector and
they are seen as valuable staff worth holding onto.
By imposing an arbitrary 10% paycut across the board all staff are treated the same regardless of thier abilites and skills and regardless if they actually work in a department which actually generates a net revenue for the Government.
The same thing is rehashed in all these arguements though about the simple fact of the numbers not adding up! Well yes that's true! So let's take a look at these numbers.
It we treat Ireland as a company like so many like to do, let's have a look at the total expenditure of the company. It is generally accepted that just over a third of total expenditure goes on public sector pay and that the numbers employed in the public service are not hugely out of sync with other developped countries (although probably slightly more than average). A little amount more than a thrid is spent on social welfare payments and then the remainder (a little under a third) is spent on capital projects.
Having talked to a number of accountants and professionals in the business world, they have generally accepted amongst them that a company can spend as low as 10% of total expenditure on employees' wages (in the online retail business) to up as much as 50-60% in the hotel trade. So, the government spending 33-38% of total expenditure on employees wages falls within business norms.
In return for this it probably receives approximately 20-30% of the expenditure back in the form of taxes therefore actually reducing the total expenditure. It also receives the services of its employees who carry out the functions of the government's business which strive to ensure the smooth running of services, which in turn attract investment and developpment of the economy and give a return to the government in the form of taxes and revenue as well as creating employment in the private sector.
The money it spends on capital projects helps to improve the infrastructre of the country and encourage investment and developpment of the country's economy therefore generating a further return for the government.
So far, so good. The government is spending money in areas which see a return for its investment.
The money it spends on social welfare is the largest portion of its expenditure. It does not receive any taxes back which cut the bill and it receives no return in terms of services provided by the recipients. In business terms it is throwing money into an area for which it makes absolutly no returns at all.
So, looking at this in a cold hearted purely business point of view in terms of numbers that so many people on boards like to do, I think it's fairly obvious where any right thinking company exec in the private sector would start making cuts!
Now, I don't believe that a government should operate in a cold hearted business manner. But, if so many people here and in the media (Eddie Hobbs springs to mind) wish to keep comparing the government and public sector to a business and how one would operate in the "real" world then they should step up and say it as it is. Social Welfare needs to be hugely slashed as it is the one place where the business is hemorraging money with absolutly no return. No other business in the private sector would accept those losses or that business model!
Sorry for deviating from the original post. Would I be willing to accept further cuts on the 17% I've already taken? Yes, I would. How much would I be willing to accept? Well really that depends on what they cut. I've already taken a paycut and don't wish to take a further one. I would accept the cutting of allowances such as child benfit, rent allowance, mortage intrest relief, medical relief etc. I would accept a reasonable property tax of up to €1000 a year. These are the sort of cuts which truely affect everyone and as such keeps us all in the same boat!0 -
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