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LISBON CONSPIRACY MEGA THREAD - threads merged

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    #152
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Well partial loss of sovereignty for a start.. some on this thread have claimed we never had any to lose in the first place however. I mentioned numerous times in the EU forum that I was concerned about the decision making capabilities of smaller or more desperate nations being taken away in lieu of an overall policy for growth, which now seems to be the case. Of course only time will tell, and I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong.
    So you pick the most nebulous one and still it's only partially true?


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    #153
    My name is URL
    Registered Users Posts: 25,067 ✭✭✭✭My name is URL


    King Mob wrote: »
    So you pick the most nebulous one and still it's only partially true?

    How is it unclear? It's a fairly pertinent part of it at this point in time. Why wouldn't I highlight it as an example, which is what you asked for. I could be ambiguous and mention a few other aspects but then you'd question why I brought them up =p


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    #154
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    My name is URL wrote: »
    How is it unclear? It's a fairly pertinent part of it at this point in time. Why wouldn't I highlight it as an example, which is what you asked for. I could be ambiguous and mention a few other aspects but then you'd question why I brought them up =p
    Well considering that "sovereignty" seems to mean anything detactors would like it to mean, hence nebulous. And by your own words, it's only partial.
    And this is your best example?


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    #155
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    King Mob wrote: »
    Pretty much the exact same as I was.
    And I'll add that that list is sorely out of date as well.

    But why let facts get in your way?

    Are you actually being serious? "That list is sorely out of date"? We're talking about the no campaign for the Lisbon Treaty, of course it's "out of date". You think Sinn Féin prints up a new list every few months to oppose the Lisbon Treaty that's already been implemented?

    Every one of those 5 issues has come true or is about to come true, but don't let facts get in the way of your nonsensical arguments.


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    #156
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Are you actually being serious? "That list is sorely out of date"? We're talking about the no campaign for the Lisbon Treaty, of course it's "out of date". You think Sinn Féin prints up a new list every few months to oppose the Lisbon Treaty that's already been implemented?

    Every one of those 5 issues has come true or is about to come true, but don't let facts get in the way of your nonsensical arguments.
    Ok then. Please show us where our neutrality is being eroded.


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    #157
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    King Mob wrote: »
    Well considering that "sovereignty" seems to mean anything detactors would like it to mean, hence nebulous. And by your own words, it's only partial.
    And this is your best example?

    No, the definition is fairly clear for anyone who uses the word.
    Sovereignty, though its meanings have varied across history, also has a core meaning, supreme authority within a territory. It is a modern notion of political authority. Historical variants can be understood along three dimensions — the holder of sovereignty, the absoluteness of sovereignty, and the internal and external dimensions of sovereignty. The state is the political institution in which sovereignty is embodied. An assemblage of states forms a sovereign states system.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sovereignty/

    You're arguments are complete nonsense and I'm struggling to understand why you're even posting on this thread.


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    #158
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    King Mob wrote: »
    Ok then. Please show us where our neutrality is being eroded.

    Common Foreign Security Policy for the European Union? It was already mentioned earlier in the thread, are you even bothering to read other people's posts?


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    #159
    sligopark
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,620 ✭✭✭sligopark


    King Mob wrote: »
    We voted yes, can we have all those horrible things the no side promised?
    Forced abortions?
    Conscrpition to the evil EU army?
    Forced vaccinations?


    King Nob - give us a break from your bullsh1t and too much time on ones hands - would hate to describe such as trolling .... nob

    uprising2 wrote: »
    Lisbon+female.jpg

    Did FG actually promote bigger tits as part and parcel of their Lisbon give away?? Where was Amanda Brunker and her open mouth?


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    #160
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    Common Foreign Security Policy for the European Union? It was already mentioned earlier in the thread, are you even bothering to read other people's posts?
    Now how exactly does it erode our neutrality?
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    No, the definition is fairly clear for anyone who uses the word.

    http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/sovereignty/
    Then please provide an exact example.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    You're arguments are complete nonsense and I'm struggling to understand why you're even posting on this thread.
    Cause I'm paid by the lizard/jews/nwo.
    Didn't you know?


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    #161
    PanchoVilla
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,053 ✭✭✭PanchoVilla


    King Mob wrote: »
    Now how exactly does it erode our neutrality?

    By joining a common defense force, we will be required to be involved in military conflicts which we may not agree with, similar to the "peacekeeping" deal we made with NATO which is why we are forced to send troops to Afghanistan. NATO and the EU will open this country up to attack from their enemies. It's very simple, the ally of an enemy is an enemy.
    Then please provide an exact example.

    I've already provided and example of how the Irish government was taken to court for promoting Irish goods in 1982. That is a direct infringement on this country's sovereignty and right to make it's own economic decisions.
    Cause I'm paid by the lizard/jews/nwo.
    Didn't you know?

    I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to pay you for this crap.


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    #162
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    By joining a common defense force, we will be required to be involved in military conflicts which we may not agree with, similar to the "peacekeeping" deal we made with NATO which is why we are forced to send troops to Afghanistan. NATO and the EU will open this country up to attack from their enemies. It's very simple, the ally of an enemy is an enemy.
    And can you actually show that this is in fact true?
    How do you know we'd be required to do any such thing?
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I've already provided and example of how the Irish government was taken to court for promoting Irish goods in 1982. That is a direct infringement on this country's sovereignty and right to make it's own economic decisions.
    So aside from the fact you're horribly misrepresenting this, I'm pretty sure 1982 was before the Lisbon treaty.
    I might be wrong though.
    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to pay you for this crap.
    Oh no, all the good ones go to the politics forums, where people actually have coherent opinions backed up with facts.:pac:


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    #163
    Yitzhak Rabin
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 7,225 ✭✭✭Yitzhak Rabin


    sligopark banned for 3 days for insulting other members.

    Panchoville, you are borderline. No more comments like "I doubt anyone would be stupid enough to pay you for this crap"


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    #164
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    PanchoVilla wrote: »
    http://www.sinnfein.ie/alternative-guide-to-lisbon-2

    You were saying?

    1. I wonder why there was such a massive swing to the Yes side.

    2. Well if your vote is say 3% and it's cut to 2% (IIRC that wasn't the case, especially in a Union built on consensus), does it really matter? How is that 1% so significant?

    3. We'd still have to bridge a €20 Billion deficit.

    4. Well, it is arguable, but there are other Neutral countries in the EU.

    5. Why are people saying there could be another referendum?

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #165
    K-9
    Registered Users Posts: 43,311 ✭✭✭✭K-9


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Well partial loss of sovereignty for a start.. some on this thread have claimed we never had any to lose in the first place however. I mentioned numerous times in the EU forum that I was concerned about the decision making capabilities of smaller or more desperate nations being taken away in lieu of an overall policy for growth, which now seems to be the case. Of course only time will tell, and I sincerely hope that I am proven wrong.

    Remember though. the EU is our biggest single market for exports. France and Germany are doing ok so the EU having growth is a good thing for us.

    And really nobody is claiming we'd lose decision power, we would have. Look at Iceland, the IMF dictates there and people can't pay mortgages with such a devalued currency.

    Mad Men's Don Draper : What you call love was invented by guys like me, to sell nylons.



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    #166
    uprising2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,627 ✭✭✭uprising2



    DAVID CAMERON U-TURN DENIES BRITAIN EU REFERENDUM


    Nigel Farage, frontrunner to lead the UK Independence Party, said: “It is one of the most massive power grabs they have ever attempted but because it is so ­devilishly complicated this might just sneak through by default. But make no mistake, these are draconian powers and without a shadow of a doubt this should trigger a referendum.”
    Leaders are petrified that any change to the EU treaties would spark referendums in the UK, Ireland and the Netherlands
    http://www.dailyexpress.co.uk/posts/view/208589/David-Cameron-U-turn-denies-Britain-EU-referendum/
    Danish MEP Exposes The EU Lisbon Treaty
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5q9wAxHDfuQ
    Italian MEP Exposes Bilderberg. Trilateral Nominations For EU President. Foreign Minister
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fYVqQXMqvME


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    #167
    gizmo
    Registered Users Posts: 8,405 ✭✭✭gizmo


    Typical UKIP hyperbolic bull****, same for the article too with lines such as "The change will create an “economic government” for Europe", will it ****.

    As for Cameron, he's basically saying a similar thing to our own government, albeit in a way which appeals to the higher percentage of euro skeptic people in the UK.
    Mr Cameron argues there will be no transfer of powers from Westminster to Brussels. He argues: “The key to a *referendum is this question: Are we *transferring powers. If yes, a referendum. If not, no referendum.”


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    #168
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    My name is URL wrote: »
    Well partial loss of sovereignty for a start.. some on this thread have claimed we never had any to lose in the first place however.

    I know we've had this discussion and I wasn't saying we had no sovereignty. Not directed at you really but I find the majority of the claims about loss of sovereignty to mean basically whatever the poster wants it to mean. Listening to some people about our sovereignty makes me think of those old soviet propaganda videos. The ones the tell of the wondrous workers paradise that the evil capitalists were trying to destroy. In our case it's the idyllic nature of Ireland before the evil EU got their hands on us.

    Something like this.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pVmWhdHMS9g


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