lets talk about lisbon treaty

K-9

gissmoo wrote: »

Our - country Poland is run by comunist traitors, thieves etc. Mass media are in hands of them. They are manipulating whole society (and democratic system is not really good - read Aristoteles) If you tjink tha real polish people, sons of that who gave their lives for freedom of Poland, have something to say youre wrong. If WE Poles could run our country for ourselves, we wouldnt appeal to Irish People. The problem is that from '89 we havent got a real independency. In 2007 Poland shut down post soviet Secret Service (!) and that was a politic of ridiculed in all over the world PIS and Kaczyński brothers. Do u know what that mean?? Poland is infiltrated by foreign secret services - they only care for thei bussinesses.. Lech Wales walesa was UB, SB (comunist) agent calle Bolek and whole pierestroika, whole transformation was designed by comunists. That are facts tha we couldnt see untill now - untill 2006-2009. Thats almost 20 year period - weve been manipulated.

I wouldnt be here if the things in my country hadn't go wrong. maybe your constitution is good enough. Polish politics elite isnt good and our constitution isnt good. I dont interfere with your own politics but i ask You - people of Ireland to do us - real polish people a favour. If a EU Superstate wuld come true Poland will be sold.. Thats true.. Now we havent got much - they sold everything.. Now they're trying to sell our independance. In our times there wuld be no wars as we ve seen them. There would be a economic partitions of countries. Ireland is also weak enough to deassemble your independence.. What would you do if thay one day will have next idea to implement? maybe the'll ask? maybe not?

I see that elite of this forum (mods, admins) is stricte PRO EU. Users rather not.. Its sad. Whre is your political conciousness? maybe some other arguments have place?

Personally, I'd get of the internet.

The EU will track you down.

K-9

gissmoo wrote: »

There are no others users as mods and admins? I feel a little bit cernered. I feel like you only see for reason to close the topic. Let me discuss with users - not mods or admins. My friends whose are trying to write her are telling me that they are banned so fast that they cn talk with you. Wats the problem with you? Someone has paid you to do that????

You dont get my argumentation? The methods of elite of EU have nothing with democracy.. If they mustnt they wouldnt be asking for your vote. Thats not even deformed democracy.. Democracy is dialog. See what they ve done with transparents "refferendum" in EU Parliamnt? Persons as Shultz, Poetering, and others lef-hand "politics" are comunists, totalitarists - theyre trockists. Thats why the lisbo ntreaty making superstate of EU isnt good thing. We cannot vote but we can beg you to vote to NO. You cant see dangers? Must go sleep - see u tomorrow.

There are plenty of other users. Plenty of vociferous No voters.

Why aren't they posting on this thread?

BlitzKrieg

gissmoo wrote: »

There are no others users as mods and admins?

mods, if they are not mod of the forum you are posting in they are the same as a normal user. So while I am mod of film production, I am a perfectly normal user on politics and european union.

I feel a little bit cernered. I feel like you only see for reason to close the topic.

we dont have the power to do this

Wats the problem with you? Someone has paid you to do that????

mods dont get paid, they volunteer their time.

You dont get my argumentation? The methods of elite of EU have nothing with democracy..

We get your argument, but you are failing to aknowledge our response. You say the EU has nothing to do with democracy, you're justification is the lack of referendum, I have made it clear 3 times now that the EU has absolutely no control whether a state has a referendum or not. They cannot force a referendum and they cannot stop one. It comes down to the democratic structure of the individual member states. If you feel the democratic structure of the 27 soverign states of the EU are broken, then that would be a topic of discussion, it is not the discussion on Lisbon alone, it shouldnt end with lisbon, this is an issue that extends to an open discussion of completely ripping to political structure of europe. not the EU the individual constitutions and establishments of each country, you are talking a europe wide revolution for change.

It could be wonderful, it could be horrible, but dont hide it behind a simple no vote, you are suggesting something much much more and for it to be something better you should come out and be honest about it. Ask for the revolution as a whole and not to mislead people into taking the first step and not telling them what follows.

And before anyone thinks I am insuating that a lisbon vote = collapse of the european continent, I dont, but voting no to lisbon because you disagree with how 26 states are run is making a judgement on those nations, not the EU. The EU has nothing to do with it.

You cant see dangers? Must go sleep - see u tomorrow.

I see dangers, but I see dangers with every decision. THe danger to me of the EU is that because of the result of the European elections the european parliament has taken a dramatic move to the right, which means the safegaurds that were protected by mep's I elected are now in danger. But that was the will of the people, that was the direct democratic power of the people, not governments or unelected beuaracrats. Well done to them, praise the lord the services directive was passed before the elections, if it was up for it now the country of origin principal would have been passed.

Now I am looking at Lisbon as an oppurtunity to get some safegaurds back in, I want it so that my parliament can be there at the first oppurtunity for future commission decisions to oppose what could be coming. I want the citizen's initiative so that I can directly petition the commission even when I am in the minority.

sceptre

gissmoo wrote: »

I see that elite of this forum (mods, admins) is stricte PRO EU. Users rather not.. Its sad. Whre is your political conciousness? maybe some other arguments have place?

People always seem to say that when I tell them they're talking rubbish. They always reckon I'm on the opposite side to them. That's pretty disappointing as I've declared more than once that I'm not taking a position on the Treaty here at all. I was hoping it was the Irish victimisation complex but apparently it isn't. I'm running with anti-idiocy as my platform, I don't actually care which side people are on as long as they post things that make sense. And unfortunately lately, all I seem to have been doing is pointing out misinformation from people who swear that they know better.

I'm disappointed.

I wouldn't actually pay much attention to me having admin rights on the site. I don't pay much attention to it. It doesn't affect the way I post. But as for people being "banned so fast", there have been a number of users who have registered just to advertise and spam their website. We've no interest in that. You know that as well because you were told that. That applies to people from every side of every argument. It's in the terms & conditions agreed to. We're not a noticeboard. However, if you guys all know each other, then feel free to tell them that if they just come here to advertise then they'll be banned. We're not a noticeboard. Shout that to them in the next room or desk. It'll help them next time they try to advertise and get banned for it. We don't do that, it's one of the important things about how the site is run. Complaints about that go here though, like any complaints about moderation.


Ironically, from what you've posted about your country being run by gangsters (and I'm assuming for the sake of this post that you're correct), one would assume that a stronger more centralised EU would be a solution. I wouldn't be in favour of a more centralised EU myself but you appear to be arguing for the status quo, which is to have your country continued to be run by gangsters. That doesn't make any sense to me. A different forward step or a backward step might make more sense if you espoused that but what you're saying doesn't make sense even based on your own premise. I wouldn't like a more centralised EU and I wouldn't support it but it could be a better solution for Poland's governmental problems. I just don't get it. You've offered no alternative, you've said there's a problem but offered no solution, said this was bad but failed to say how it made any difference, complained about not having a vote but not explained how it would make any difference to the problem (which is that your wonderful country is being run by idiots who for some reason have been elected) and that makes for a very short discussion. And it's not a private discussion, so everyone else can see that it's a short discussion. What's your alternative, your solution? Even just for Poland and the EU, ignoring the rest of Europe? And yes, I realise that's the opposite of what you asked us to do but I'm interested.

ei.sdraob

@gissimo

are you connected to Libertas Poland?

---

gissmoo wrote: »

There are no others users as mods and admins? I feel a little bit cernered

im neither a mod or admin, and i am concerned and sick of people outside of Ireland getting involved in this and trying to spread lies

which part of mind own business do yee not understand? would you like i was posting on your site whenever you have a vote in your country??

/

Scofflaw

So....are we going to talk about the Lisbon Treaty?

expectantly,
Scofflaw

Stainless_Steel

Scofflaw wrote: »

So....are we going to talk about the Lisbon Treaty?

expectantly,
Scofflaw

Whats the lisbon treaty? :pac:

Lets talk about Polish women

gissmoo

K-9 wrote: »

Personally, I'd get of the internet.

The EU will track you down.

K-9 - I dont care It's all true. There are full of that informations on polish independent blogs. People in Poland are hipnotized.. It so sad. We in Poland call them lemmings

gissmoo

K-9 wrote: »

There are plenty of other users. Plenty of vociferous No voters. Why aren't they posting on this thread?

Well - i cant see them too. Whats the proportion (based on polls) of Yes/No voters in Ireland. Can you support link of that inbternet polls?

blitzkrieg wrote:

we dont have the power to do this

Yes you have. Your mod proved it twice ;/ So im afraid..

blitzkrieg wrote:

If you feel the democratic structure of the 27 soverign states of the EU are broken, then that would be a topic of discussion, it is not the discussion on Lisbon alone, it shouldnt end with lisbon, this is an issue that extends to an open discussion of completely ripping to political structure of europe. not the EU the individual constitutions and establishments of each country, you are talking a europe wide revolution for change. (...) THe danger to me of the EU is that because of the result of the European elections the european parliament has taken a dramatic move to the right

Yes - it is about Lisbon. Its about the methods of EU elites. There was no debate about lisbon treaty at UP (iniciatives was cut!, they ripped banners saying refferendum), there was no debate in Poland, Politics in poland haven't even read this treaty (!). And the eilte of EU know that. Thats all about the lisbon traty and the methods they use. You think how many people of Europe know what is Lisbon Treaty? Thats a dialog? Thats a democracy? Its all about lisbon treaty.

Thanks to god for the move on right. Left-side is a trockist side, comunist side. ;/ You havent got a comunistic system in your country and you dont know what it means.. Uniting, uniforming - all the same with no exceptions.. State controling, censoring everything - even minds.. Are you a comunist? What political ideology you belive in?

blitzkrieg wrote:

What's your alternative, your solution? Even just for Poland and the EU, ignoring the rest of Europe? And yes, I realise that's the opposite of what you asked us to do but I'm interested.

Yes my country is run by idiots (clever idiots) elected by idiots (dumb idiots). Alternative is Confederated Europe. Europe united and based on the main four freedom, liberty levels (i dont know how u call it in english) Im agains political unification. I aproove only useful sollutions. Political unification goes to far and paradoxicaly cause problems and reppercussions. Action - reaction.. Thats the reason that europ moved right-hand..

ei.sdraob wrote:

are you connected to Libertas Poland?[\quote]

No - i dont like him much but i thank fore some actions he did. There are roumors thet that guy is a american/ russian spy or something. They tried to capture our dumb athoritate Walesa. They payed him. A idont like Walesa - he was a spy and he is a really dumb person..

Scofflaw: - we talk - dont be unbearable..

Stainless_Steel: polish women are the pritiest women in the whole world. You like them ;>

oscarBravo

Scofflaw wrote: »

So....are we going to talk about the Lisbon Treaty?

Clearly not.