Plastic bags going up to 44c

RoadKillTs

Link

The plastic bag levy is set to be doubled to 44 cent.

Will it make any difference? I always end up buying bags anyways, usually forget them.

Joey the lips

No it wont and it proves one importat point to all the "Young" who said "ah sure its only 5c". Once you start paying for something it can only go up.

Another example of this was the bin charges.

I laugh at the supermarkets they dont advertise "Bag for life" where they will recycle it and give you a free bag on its return anymore.

RoadKillTs

I laugh at the supermarkets they dont advertise "Bag for life" where they will recycle it and give you a free bag on its return anymore.

I remember most of them used to do that a while back, don't seem to do it as much anymore.
Why cant they use paper bags? I know some of the smaller shops use them.

Quazzie

I'm delighted its going up. Its a tax on stupidity and I want to see it going up till it does change things.

Fulton Crown

Hardly rocket science is it lads.?

You pop a few bags in the boot of yore car or one of those foldable ones in your pocket...always there when you need them !

Simple really !

Of course if your one of those lazy gimps who can't be arshed..(I.E you are like the majority of students) and wander into the supermarket like a badly dressed scarecrow then hey great ! Your making a good contribution to the environment.

Thank you ...sucker

aphex™

They should bring in those bags like they have in San Fransisco (all the shops have to use them) that look like normal plastic ones but are actually made from potato starch. They're biodegradable.

It's a much better solution and would look less like a cynical money making exercise.

RoadKillTs

I wonder how much the levy brings in every year?
I'd say quite a bit.

Fulton Crown

aphex™ wrote: »

They should bring in those bags like they have in San Fransisco (all the shops have to use them) that look like normal plastic ones but are actually made from potato starch. They're biodegradable.

It's a much better solution and would look less like a cynical money making exercise.

Cynical ? Cynical ??

How is it cynical ?

Taking money from lazy idiots more like ...and putting it to good use.

Hardly cynical pal....

Joey the lips

Quazzie wrote: »

I'm delighted its going up. Its a tax on stupidity and I want to see it going up till it does change things.

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Hardly rocket science is it lads.?

You pop a few bags in the boot of yore car or one of those foldable ones in your pocket...always there when you need them !

Simple really !

Of course if your one of those lazy gimps who can't be arshed..(I.E you are like the majority of students) and wander into the supermarket like a badly dressed scarecrow then hey great ! Your making a good contribution to the environment.

Thank you ...sucker

Both of you have clearly missed my point. To get them in the first place we had to be stupid enough to buy them at such high prices! Dont you agree! and when they tear etc you have to buy more.

Yes they have saved the environment but the govt will make a nice tidy sum on the back of all our stupidity.

Now on the otherhand if the govt donated every penny that it made from this tax and did not receive any of it, that would be something!

But all that is happening is the govt have discovered another way to tax you

and for those of us who cannot put the bags in our boot because we cannot afford a car well I see we are getting a lot of support on the issue.

minidazzler

aphex™ wrote: »

They should bring in those bags like they have in San Fransisco (all the shops have to use them) that look like normal plastic ones but are actually made from potato starch. They're biodegradable.

It's a much better solution and would look less like a cynical money making exercise.

Damn hippie liberal ass commies!!!

Quazzie

No. This is the issue. Plastic bags are one of the biggest pollutants we have ever encountered. A tax on them will eventually reduce the amount being used, it already has since its first introduction.

I get your point that they are an expendible item, but hopefully putting added value onto them will force people to think twice about what they do with them, both in terms of usage and disposal.

As for the Govt giving away the money to charitable organizations I can never see that happening, especially not in our current economic climate. A nice thought but never gonna happen

P.S 1million bags a minute. Try to grasp how much that is :eek:

Fulton Crown

Joey the lips wrote: »

Both of you have clearly missed my point. To get them in the first place we had to be stupid enough to buy them at such high prices! Dont you agree! and when they tear etc you have to buy more.

Yes I do agree you have to be stupid or lazy to "buy" them and yes when they tear you have to buy more ...have to ?

Yes they have saved the environment but the govt will make a nice tidy sum on the back of all our stupidity

.

Yes ! Excellent.

Now on the otherhand if the govt donated every penny that it made from this tax and did not receive any of it, that would be something!

Uh ? would it ??? like give to starvingpeopleinafrica ?

and for those of us who cannot put the bags in our boot because we cannot afford a car well I see we are getting a lot of support on the issue

.

There are refoldable ones can go in your Anarak pocket...can't afford an Anarak ?.....in yore trousers pocket then.....

Cant.....oh dear use the plastic bags..

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Of course if your one of those lazy gimps who can't be arshed..(I.E you are like the majority of students) and wander into the supermarket like a badly dressed scarecrow then hey great ! Your making a good contribution to the environment.

Thank you ...sucker

I wouldn't limit this comment to just students...

aphex™ wrote: »

It's a much better solution and would look less like a cynical money making exercise.

Taxing laziness is better than taxing hard work.

Joey the lips wrote: »

Both of you have clearly missed my point. To get them in the first place we had to be stupid enough to buy them at such high prices! Dont you agree! and when they tear etc you have to buy more.

Yes they have saved the environment but the govt will make a nice tidy sum on the back of all our stupidity.

Your stupidity, maybe, but not mine.

Now on the otherhand if the govt donated every penny that it made from this tax and did not receive any of it, that would be something!

But all that is happening is the govt have discovered another way to tax you

and for those of us who cannot put the bags in our boot because we cannot afford a car well I see we are getting a lot of support on the issue.

The govt needs to make money to sort out a shortfall. Use pockets. I don't have a car either.

And stop whinging - there are solutions if you'd care to look. If not, then just pay the damn tax.

AnonoBoy

I have no time for people whinging about the bag tax.

If you can't remember to bring a bag when you're going to the shop then you really have nobody else to blame but yourself.

Fuhrer

Joey the lips wrote: »

No it wont and it proves one importat point to all the "Young" who said "ah sure its only 5c". Once you start paying for something it can only go up.

Another example of this was the bin charges.

I laugh at the supermarkets they dont advertise "Bag for life" where they will recycle it and give you a free bag on its return anymore.

Its a slippery slope to facism!

missmatty

I have a bag that folds up and goes into a little pouch. Doesn't take up much room and I always carry it, reckon it's saved me a fortune over the last 6 years.

ejmaztec

Fuhrer wrote: »

Its a slippery slope to facism!

We should have a Godwin tax, it would make more than the bags.

biko

Haven't used plastic bags in years, got a few life bags in the boot.
Or just use empty boxes from the shop.

Caoimhín

I wish the supermarkets would provide a paper bag, like in the US. I cant be bothered carrying around my own plastic bag, always forget to bring it with me.

Theta

You will still get people (knackers, cheapos) doing the

"I have to pay for a bag, you're having a laugh?"

It has been in for six years. You must be having a laugh if you think I think you didnt know about it.

Joey the lips

Ah heck your all right. Just charge us 2 euro a bag.

Solve the national debt. Create great advertising space and make for a cleaner city.

Just out of curiosity, Remember that small pedal bin in your kitchen or bathroom that use to take a plastic bag! You still have that bin dont you! You know the one that fits neatly in the corner or under the sink!

I am guessing you now use a paper bag in it:rolleyes:

THE MAJOR MYTHS BEHIND PROPOSED BANS ON PLASTIC BAGS

[FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]1. MYTH: San Francisco banned plastic bags and so should our city.
[/FONT][/FONT]

REALITY: San Francisco is the only significant jurisdiction in the nation that currently bans plastic bags [FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]and that law has caused a shift back to paper bags. Switching back to paper bags increases greenhouse gas emissions, energy use and waste.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]1 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]As other major cities like New York and Chicago investigate the plastic bag issue, they have chosen plastic bag recycling for their communities. Communities wishing to emulate San Francisco should also understand that San Francisco is one of a handful of communities in the country that has collection of compostable materials including biodegradable plastic bags which was a stated intent of the San Francisco legislation.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]2. MYTH: Our city would be saving so much oil by banning plastic bags.
[/FONT][/FONT]

REALITY: In the United States, nearly 80% of the raw material used to make plastic bags is produced from North American natural gas, not oil.2 [FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]This includes feedstock, process and transportation energy. Much of the energy used to make plastic bags is embodied in the bag itself, and since plastic bags are fully recyclable, that energy is available for new products. Alternatives also use twice as much energy to make – thus banning plastic bags would increase overall energy use and perhaps oil use.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]3. MYTH: Our city would be solving its litter problem by banning plastic bags.
[/FONT][/FONT]

REALITY: In effect, banning recyclable plastic bags will not significantly reduce litter or the amount of waste in our sewers and landfills. [FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]Litter problems must be addressed directly by targeting littering and providing recycling and waste bins. Banning a certain product will only cause a switch from one form of litter to another. There is no such thing as environmentally preferable litter. Such approaches merely create new problems.

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]4. MYTH: Many other cities are banning plastics bags because that is now the trend.
[/FONT][/FONT]

REALITY: Nationwide, the prevailing legislative trend is overwhelmingly toward plastic bag recycling. [FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]From coast to coast – Los Angeles to New York

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

1 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]Boustead Consulting , "Life Cycle Assessment for Three Types of Grocery Bags - Recyclable Plastic; Compostable, Biodegradable Plastic; and Recycled, Recyclable Paper," 2007[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman], http://www.americanchemistry.com/s_plastics/doc.asp?CID=1106&DID=7212

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]

2 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman][FONT=Times New Roman,Times New Roman]US Department of Energy, National Renewable Energy Laboratory, US Life Cycle Inventory Database, http://www.nrel.gov/lci/

[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]

and now Chicago – cities are moving forward to promote plastic bag recycling. San Francisco remains the only city in the nation that currently enforces a ban on plastic bags.
Plastic grocery bags are fully recyclable and the number of recycling programs is increasing daily. In 2006, plastic bag recycling increased 24% nationwide to 812 million pounds. There is a growing realization that plastic is a valuable resource.[/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]3 [/FONT][/FONT][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic][FONT=Century Gothic,Century Gothic]Plastic bags can be made into dozens of useful new products, such as building and construction products, low-maintenance fencing and
decking, and of course, new bags. There is high demand for this material, and in most areas, demand exceeds the available supply because many consumers are not aware that collection programs are available at local stores.

In recent years, many grocers and retailers have introduced plastic bag collection programs. Consumers should look for a collection bin, usually located at the front of the store. The number of municipal drop-off centers and curbside programs to recycle plastic bags is increasing also.
[/FONT][/FONT]

Quazzie

There is no such thing as environmentally preferable litter. Such approaches merely create new problems

What a crock of shít you just uncovered there Joey.

Are you stating that paper bags are equal in terms to plastic bags despite the difference in time it takes to biodegrade?

the_syco

RoadKillTs wrote: »

Why cant they use paper bags? I know some of the smaller shops use them.

Plastic bags costs the shop 2 or 3 cents each. I think paper bags costs the shop 15 or 25 cents each.

ejmaztec

I seem to remember that after the first year's totals were in, the government hadn't collected anywhere near what they thought they would, so they've been bumping it up ever since.

bonzos

The greens would be better off chasing john o donoghue for the damage he done to the environment and to the taxpayer flying all over the world at our expense

K-9

ejmaztec wrote: »

I seem to remember that after the first year's totals were in, the government hadn't collected anywhere near what they thought they would, so they've been bumping it up ever since.

Think they only increased it once, from 15 to 22c, IIRC.

I suppose it is an easy target. Still, not bringing in as much as they thought, eh, means it was a success otherwise, though obviously not financially!

Theta

But I presume the government expect this to be a tax that hopfully dwindles. Is that not the point? To get less people to buy bags and so the revenue from the tax falls.

ejmaztec

K-9 wrote: »

Think they only increased it once, from 15 to 22c, IIRC.

I suppose it is an easy target. Still, not bringing in as much as they thought, eh, means it was a success otherwise, though obviously not financially!

Some of the shop-keepers that I know, aren't too accurate filling in the levy returns, so the government might collect a bit more, were they to visit them and threaten them with extreme violence.:eek:

Quint

It's scary that some people actually think the government are doing this to protect the enviroment! They couldn't give a fuck about it, it's purely another tax. They can put it up as much as they want and pretend it's for the enviroment. Same way any car/vrt/petrol tax is for the enviroment, and tax on smokes and beer is high because of "health reasons".

TheZohanS

There's nothing stopping anyone from buying a roll of bags in a supermarket and packing their groceries in them.

It's all about reusing and recycling, one could argue the point that one will do both with the bags when you get them home.

K-9

Quint wrote: »

It's scary that some people actually think the government are doing this to protect the enviroment! They couldn't give a fuck about it, it's purely another tax. They can put it up as much as they want and pretend it's for the enviroment. Same way any car/vrt/petrol tax is for the enviroment, and tax on smokes and beer is high because of "health reasons".

This one works on a slightly different principle though! :eek:

Unless they double Excise duties or have big increases, it is unlikely to have a major effect on consumption rates.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Joey the lips wrote: »

Ah heck your all right. Just charge us 2 euro a bag.

F*ck the myths. I don't care what's been claimed, proven or disproven. You're either too lazy or too ignorant to simple bring a bag with you. Most of the country seems to manage. Pay your tax and belt up.

I for one wlecome our 2€ per bag overlords taxes. Hell, they can make it 10€ if they want - I don't pay it one way or the other.

Quint

Quint wrote: »

It's scary that some people actually think the government are doing this to protect the enviroment! They couldn't give a fuck about it, it's purely another tax. They can put it up as much as they want and pretend it's for the enviroment. Same way any car/vrt/petrol tax is for the enviroment, and tax on smokes and beer is high because of "health reasons".

Maybe the government aren't doing it for the environment. But the fact remains; it is good for the environment.

Fulton Crown

bonzos wrote: »

The greens would be better off chasing john o donoghue for the damage he done to the environment and to the taxpayer flying all over the world at our expense

Yeah great ! let's chase "The Bull" for the damage he "done" an fcuk this sh1t about plastic bags.

I'm nostalgic for the days when every town was awash with these charming items and they hung on every hedgerow like witches knickers.

Bring back these great days...how can people be expected to remember to bring re-usable bags when they have so much to worry about these days.

While we are at it let's bring back that lovely smoky coal that gave us those wonderful smoggy evenings back in the good old days.

Hmmmmmm?

ScumLord

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Of course if your one of those lazy gimps who can't be arshed..(I.E you are like the majority of students) and wander into the supermarket like a badly dressed scarecrow then hey great ! Your making a good contribution to the environment.

Thank you ...sucker

I don't see how I'm contributing to the environment, whenever I'm made pay for a plastic bag, once I'm done with it I throw it into the local river/lake out of pure spite.

K-9

ScumLord wrote: »

I don't see how I'm contributing to the environment, whenever I'm made pay for a plastic bag, once I'm done with it I throw it into the local river/lake out of pure spite.

That is why it should be €44, not 44c.

gaz wac

44c..meh...wake me up when its €2

Riamfada

Has anyone stopped to think about the people who work in the plastic bag manufacturing plant? I thought not.

gaz wac

Grimes wrote: »

Has anyone stopped to think about the people who work in the plastic bag manufacturing plant? I thought not.

Who ?? this bloke ?

http://api.ning.com/files/GMwqwIqQauLwJr3oPxqx6DLKHFz5Fn56A9H4SbkpeiSWjhRrNy*61KiKzf6zRn4mQikXQOKGdSmLJ7lsLyKNhRFx58Fr2yhJ/1.jpg

Riamfada

gaz wac wrote: »

Who ?? this bloke ?

http://api.ning.com/files/GMwqwIqQauLwJr3oPxqx6DLKHFz5Fn56A9H4SbkpeiSWjhRrNy*61KiKzf6zRn4mQikXQOKGdSmLJ7lsLyKNhRFx58Fr2yhJ/1.jpg

Plastic man needs an income also

cruizer101

Ikky Poo2 wrote: »

I for one wlecome our 2€ per bag overlords taxes. Hell, they can make it 10€ if they want - I don't pay it one way or the other.

I agree to a certain extent but there should be a reasonable limit for those times when you didn't plan going to shops but end up poppping in to pick up a bit of stuff. Or would it be better to go home and then drive back down with your Bag for lifes. Don't know why they didn't just round to 50c mind.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Joey the lips wrote: »

No it wont and it proves one importat point to all the "Young" who said "ah sure its only 5c". Once you start paying for something it can only go up.

Another example of this was the bin charges.

I laugh at the supermarkets they dont advertise "Bag for life" where they will recycle it and give you a free bag on its return anymore.

Eh it has changed quite a lot actually. You know the reason for this levy, right? Well it has worked.

RoadKillTs wrote: »

I remember most of them used to do that a while back, don't seem to do it as much anymore.
Why cant they use paper bags? I know some of the smaller shops use them.

Paper bags will end up in the same place as plastic bags if they are free.

gaz wac

Lawson Old Scene wrote: »

Paper bags will end up in the same place as plastic bags if they are free.

recycling

Fighting Irish

Joey the lips wrote: »

No it wont and it proves one importat point to all the "Young" who said "ah sure its only 5c". Once you start paying for something it can only go up.

.

sunnyside

Fulton Crown wrote: »

You pop a few bags in the boot of yore car or one of those foldable ones in your pocket...always there when you need them !


Of course if your one of those lazy gimps who can't be arshed..(I.E you are like the majority of students) and wander into the supermarket like a badly dressed scarecrow then hey great ! Your making a good contribution to the environment.

How does what people wear have anything to do with plastic bag tax?

I expect men must buy bags more, if you don't have a car the next best place for re-usable bags is a handbag.

missmatty wrote: »

I have a bag that folds up and goes into a little pouch. Doesn't take up much room and I always carry it, reckon it's saved me a fortune over the last 6 years.

You have used the exact same bag for 6 years:eek:

cotwold

Why cant it just be 50 cent, if theyre gonna taxi us they might as well make the arithmetic easy.

gaz wac

sunnyside wrote: »

You have used the exact same bag for 6 years:eek:

She must be the crazy old bag lady who lives at the end of your road

sorry Miss M

MoominPapa

Why do they have to pass a new law for this increase? Why didn't they give powers to the Minister for the Environment when the legislation was first introduced to increase the levy as he/she say fit?

Joey the lips

Paper Bags Are Better Than Plastic, Right?



Summary: The answer to the "paper or plastic?" dilemma is: Neither. They're roughly equal in pros and cons. While convenient addictions, they both gobble up natural resources and cause significant pollution. Get basic design benefits of a paper and plastic bag with our award-winning replacements - the ACME Bags Workhorse (the plastic bag replacement) and the EarthTote (the paper bag replacement). Same brilliant basic design as their wasteful relatives, but designed to be used thousands of times.
__________________



Issue 1: Energy and natural resources
It takes more than four times as much energy to manufacture a paper bag as it does to manufacture a plastic bag.

ENERGY TO PRODUCE BAG ORIGINALLY (BTUs)
Safeway Plastic Bags: 594 BTUs
Safeway Paper Bags: 2511 BTUs
(Source: 1989 Plastic Recycling Directory, Society of Plastics Industry.)

Of course, most paper comes from tree pulp, so the impact of paper bag production on forests is enormous. In 1999, 14 million trees were cut to produce the 10 billion paper grocery bags used by Americans that year alone. Paper bag production delivers a global warming double-whammy forests (major absorbers of greenhouse gases) have to be cut down, and then the subsequent manufacturing of bags produces greenhouse gases.

Issue 2: Pollution
The majority of kraft paper is made by heating wood chips under pressure at high temperatures in a chemical solution. As evidenced by the unmistakable stench commonly associated with paper mills, the use of these toxic chemicals contributes to both air pollution, such as acid rain, and water pollution. Millions of gallons of these chemicals pour into our waterways each year; the toxicity of the chemicals is long-term and settles into the sediments, working its way through the food chain. Further toxicity is generated as both plastic and paper bags degrade.

POLLUTANTS PAPER V.S. PLASTIC
Paper sacks generate 70% more air and 50 times more water pollutants than plastic bags.
Source: "Comparison of the Effects on the Environment of Polyethylene and Paper Carrier Bags," Federal Office of the Environment, August 1988

Issue 3: Recycling
It takes 91% less energy to recycle a pound of plastic than it takes to recycle a pound of paper. But recycling rates of either type of disposable bag are extremely low, with only 10 to 15% of paper bags and 1 to 3% of plastic bags being recycled, according to the Wall Street Journal.

ENERGY TO RECYCLE PACKAGE ONCE (BTUs)
Safeway Plastic Bags: 17 BTUs
Safeway Paper Bags: 1444 BTUs
Source: 1989 Plastic Recycling Directory, Society of Plastics Industry.

Although paper bags have a higher recycling rate than plastic, each new paper grocery bag you use is made from mostly virgin pulp for better strength and elasticity.

Issue 4: Degradability
Current research demonstrates that paper in today's landfills does not degrade or break down at a substantially faster rate than plastic does. In fact, nothing completely degrades in modern landfills because of the lack of water, light, oxygen and other important elements that are necessary for the degradation process to be completed. A paper bags takes up more space than a plastic bag in a landfill, but because paper is recycled at a higher rate, saving space in landfills is less of an issue.

At the end of the day using reusable shopping bags is the real answer



At the end of the day raising the levy on plastic bags is only increasing the amount of paper bags and giving the manufactures of recycled or fibre bags the oppertunity to put those prices up. Think about it. You would have done it in economics.

If the govt wants to tax plastic bags to help the environment that tax should be offset by supplying fibre bags to everyone. You know, fibre bags that are eco frendly and contain no harful inks that damage nature.

Believe what you want. Oh and for the "smart" person that takes the box from the supermarket. Believe it or not you are paying to dispose this in your green bin and if you dont dispose of it properly you are diverting cardboard from recycling.

Dankoozy

aphex™ wrote: »

They should bring in those bags like they have in San Fransisco (all the shops have to use them) that look like normal plastic ones but are actually made from potato starch. They're biodegradable.

It's a much better solution and would look less like a cynical money making exercise.

posting from your iPhone?

Dankoozy

Joey the lips wrote: »

Believe what you want. Oh and for the "smart" person that takes the box from the supermarket. Believe it or not you are paying to dispose this in your green bin and if you dont dispose of it properly you are diverting cardboard from recycling.

i just burn it

More BTU's for me