Mary Coughlan, again...

aidan24326

Eutow wrote: »

Only qualified economists and experience of international markets should be considered for the position of finance minister, only qualified people with experience of the health sector should be given the health cabinet position etc

That's a good idea in theory, but the reality is we don't have these type of people in Leinster House. Our TDs are a mixture of teachers, solicitors and career politicians. Alot of them only got elected in the first place because of family connections and local pull, it had nothing to do with their qualifications or ability. That's how we end up with muppets like Cullen and Coughlan holding important cabinet positions. if it was to do with skills, qualifications and expertise these people wouldn't get within an asses roar of the place. Some of them I wouldn't trust to run a corner shop let alone a goverment department. I swear to god if you left Cullen in charge of your corner shop he'd run it into the ground in no time.

Eutow

aidan24326 wrote: »

That's a good idea in theory, but the reality is we don't have these type of people in Leinster House. Our TDs are a mixture of teachers, solicitors and career politicians. Alot of them only got elected in the first place because of family connections and local pull, it had nothing to do with their qualifications or ability. That's how we end up with muppets like Cullen and Coughlan holding important cabinet positions. if it was to do with skills, qualifications and expertise these people wouldn't get within an asses roar of the place. Some of them I wouldn't trust to run a corner shop let alone a goverment department. I swear to god if you left Cullen in charge of your corner shop he'd run it into the ground in no time.

I wouldn't trust them to buy me a pint, I would ask them to get me a pint of Miller and they would bring back Tennants. You are right about politicians getting elected because of their father/mother etc. Our small population does not help, neither I think does the PR system. It just allows small groups such as the Greens to have an influence when hardly anyone voted for them. People might say it is good to have a small party in government in order to hold the bigger one to account, but that never happens, the small party gets power and will do anything the bigger partner says in order to stay in power. There has to be a better way to ensure that competent people hold important cabinet positions, we can't do much worse than now, maybe look at a country that looks like it is run properly and follow them.

jmayo

irish_bob wrote: »

i am a rural dweller , we all know how long the cops take to respond to calls so what difference does it make if the local station is three miles away or eight , as for the arguement about locals needing to know thier local copper , the local sergeant or rank and file is never from the area they are stationed in anyhow

I know the guards are never local but in theb old days the junior lived beside the station and had children etc and links into the community.

Actually I know one late garda that used to run the hardware store next door when the owner was out.

Deleted User wrote: »

Instead of worrying about me and my opinion on a harmless website, why not worry about greater issues like the country and get out and do something.:mad:

I do worry about the country as my kids are going to have to leave this country like their grandfather before them. We have come a long way in a full circle.
Thanks fianna fail.

BTW my idea of doing something involves tar and feathers.

irish_bob

jmayo wrote: »

I know the guards are never local but in theb old days the junior lived beside the station and had children etc and links into the community.

Actually I know one late garda that used to run the hardware store next door when the owner was out.



I do worry about the country as my kids are going to have to leave this country like their grandfather before them. We have come a long way in a full circle.
Thanks fianna fail.

BTW my idea of doing something involves tar and feathers.

the jobbing cop has always been with us , the now retired local rank and file in my area was a bricky on his day off , you would meet him with his trailer and cement mixer every so often , i had a problem a few years back with a bad neighbour , the cops decided to sit on the fence even though he was clearly in the wrong , same cop told me one day that my problem was myself , to which i replied , dont tell me your at the shrink work now PJ , how do you fit the three jobs in

Amhran Nua

Darsad wrote: »

For lenihan having a tanaiste like the inept one we have must be the equivalent of Bernard Dunne taking to the boxing ring with with one arm tied behind his back .

This is unfortunately exactly what you get when the sons and daughters of politicians are allowed to fall into the shoes of their parents - incompetent clowns with no grip on reality, and no particular need to get a grip since they feel entitled to do what they like.

• Clement Coughlan (1942–1983): FF TD Donegal South West 1980–1983
• his brother Cathal Coughlan (1937–1986): FF TD Donegal South West 1983–1986
• Cathal's daughter Mary Coughlan (born 1965): FF TD Donegal South West 1987–

This nascent aristocracy is out of control to be honest.

aidan24326

Amhran Nua wrote: »

This is unfortunately exactly what you get when the sons and daughters of politicians are allowed to fall into the shoes of their parents - incompetent clowns with no grip on reality, and no particular need to get a grip since they feel entitled to do what they like.

• Clement Coughlan (1942–1983): FF TD Donegal South West 1980–1983
• his brother Cathal Coughlan (1937–1986): FF TD Donegal South West 1983–1986
• Cathal's daughter Mary Coughlan (born 1965): FF TD Donegal South West 1987–

This nascent aristocracy is out of control to be honest.

There you go. You didn't think she got where she is due to her superior qualifications, experience and intellect did you? Of course not.

The same dynastic entitlement is what got a large number of our TDs to where they are. Cowen, Lenihan, Hanafin and Coughlan are just a few high-profile examples from goverment, but the list goes on and on right through the Dail and in the Seanad aswell (And it's not just Fianna Fail either). It's little wonder we wind up with a bunch of incompetents running the show when it wasn't competence that got them there in the first place.

Amhran Nua

Don't worry, if we ever get into power (see sig) we won't be long sorting it out.

bmaxi

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Don't worry, if we ever get into power (see sig) we won't be long sorting it out.

Wow! Speaking political speak already.

Amhran Nua

bmaxi wrote: »

Wow! Speaking political speak already.

Say what now?

bmaxi

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Say what now?

The oldest form of political rhetoric, "If returned/elected to Government, FF/FG/Lab. etc. will end poverty, unemployment, waiting lists, high taxation, corruption, blah blah". You just added "political dynasties" to the list.

Amhran Nua

bmaxi wrote: »

The oldest form of political rhetoric, "If returned/elected to Government, FF/FG/Lab. etc. will end poverty, unemployment, waiting lists, high taxation, corruption, blah blah". You just added "political dynasties" to the list.

No its been on the list since the party got started, in our political reform policy, and the most contentious part of that policy.

Legislation will be implemented to mandate that no relation to a sitting or previous public representative can run for office or be appointed to committees on the basis of that relationship. Here is a list of the family related politicians in the Dáil, including all major party political leaders. For a job as important as the leadership of the country, we need the best people, not the best connected.

There is a thread in politics called "Amhran Nua", where I have vigorous discussions with several posters about it. Similar debates can be found in the archives of tuppenceworth, that Irish blog corner. I don't think it got mentioned in p.ie at the time, but its there all right.



Still, interesting to hear your thoughts on political rhetoric.

bonzos

not one of these crooks in gov could get paid a 3rd of what they are getting now (without expenses)out in the real world

Darsad

Interesting article in yesterdays times !

Are we blaming the wrong Mary for the mess in FAS

Personally after reading this i believe they both have resigning issues to answer !


http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2009/0930/1224255524386.html

Eutow

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Still, interesting to hear your thoughts on political rhetoric.

Political rhetoric, ok. What about this line:

The possibility of recall referendums will be investigated.

Why not just say that it will definitely, instead of saying the possibility it might be implemented?

Where corruption has been proven, pension entitlements will be revoked.

Any politician found guilty should not only have their pension revoked, they should be forced to pay back any money they made from that corruption, spend some time in jail, and be banned from working in politics and public services.

You make no mention of scrapping the Seanad, I don't see the point of having this establishment in place.

I do however agree that our system of PR is flawed in that it encourages local politics to have too big a hold over the country as a whole. TD's should be working towards the benefit of Ireland as a whole, and have local councillor's concentrating on local issues.

dublin.caucus

I do however agree that our system of PR is flawed in that it encourages local politics to have too big a hold over the country as a whole. TD's should be working towards the benefit of Ireland as a whole, and have local councillor's concentrating on local issues.

In the UK, where over 90% of people vote primarily on the grounds of party, MPs spend a huge amount of time on local issues.

Why? Simply put because MPs like doing it, and it is expected from them by the public and their peers.

This is repeated across the world, in all sorts of electoral systems. It has little to do with PR-STV.

Eutow

dublin.caucus wrote: »

In the UK, where over 90% of people vote primarily on the grounds of party, MPs spend a huge amount of time on local issues.

Why? Simply put because MPs like doing it, and it is expected from them by the public and their peers.

This is repeated across the world, in all sorts of electoral systems. It has little to do with PR-STV.

The all politics is local quote:


That's a quote often attributed to the late Thomas P. (Tip) O'Neill, Jr., former Speaker of the House. But Tip didn't coin the phrase ... it was passed down to him.

Tip revealed the true attribution of the quote In his 1987 autobiography, Man of the House. Tip's father, Thomas O'Neill, Sr, shared this wisdom on the occasion of the only election loss in his son's lifetime--a run for the Cambridge City Council.

"This was the only race I ever lost in my life, but in the process, I learned two extremely valuable lessons. During the campaign, my father had left me to my own devices, but when it was over, he pointed out that I had taken my own neighborhood for granted. He was right: I had received a tremendous vote in the other sections of the city, but I hadn't worked hard enough in my own backyard. 'Let me tell you something I learned years ago,' he said. 'All politics is local.'"

Amhran Nua

Eutow wrote: »

Why not just say that it will definitely, instead of saying the possibility it might be implemented?

Because you don't want to make it too easy to remove a government, it leads to political instability and the chances of long term strategies being reduced because of media hysteria for whatever reason.

Eutow wrote: »

Any politician found guilty should not only have their pension revoked, they should be forced to pay back any money they made from that corruption, spend some time in jail, and be banned from working in politics and public services.

Agreed.

Eutow wrote: »

You make no mention of scrapping the Seanad, I don't see the point of having this establishment in place.

We do make mention of repurposing the Seanad. Its something that would have to be reviewed in light of the structural changes we propose - could the Seanad serve a purpose as an interface between local and national politics?

Eutow wrote: »

I do however agree that our system of PR is flawed in that it encourages local politics to have too big a hold over the country as a whole. TD's should be working towards the benefit of Ireland as a whole, and have local councillor's concentrating on local issues.

PR is fine, its the STV part of the equation that's the problem. Our policies do include an enhancement of local authority and councillor powers, so as to make a clear divide between responsiblities apparent. Thats what the local elections are for.

Eutow

Amhran Nua wrote: »

Because you don't want to make it too easy to remove a government, it leads to political instability and the chances of long term strategies being reduced because of media hysteria for whatever reason.

Obviously, I wouldn't agree to a few people trying to undermine a government just for the sake of it. People would have to have a legitimate reason to bring about a recall. A certain amount of the electorate would also have to agree to bring about a recall, for example, 40% or 50% of the electorate in that particular constituency that wants a recall.