Mary Coughlan, again...

paddyland

Mary Coughlan (sigh...) has announced grandly that many of the proposed McCarthy cutbacks do not make sense.

Is that government policy then? All the expenditure on yet another report, to be dumped in the same dusty, cobwebbed room every other report gets dumped in?

So basically the next budget, give or take a few tweaks, will be another status quo? No cutbacks on the public spending bill?

Perhaps it would be too embarrassing to cut back on the public services, while keeping ministers' expenses at the same rate they are now. Easier simply to not cut anything at all.

In the old days of the British Empire, there was always a remote island somewhere that embarrassing people could be posted, to keep them out of harm's way. Perhaps we could use Inishvickillane for that purpose...?

prinz

The report was not compiled by the Government. It was not to be used in it's entirety. It presented a list of options to the government where cuts could be made. It is up to the government then to accept some of the cuts, amend others, and reject more. That does not mean they all have to make sense. Cuts will have to be made, that is the government's policy.

Much ado about nothing really. She didn't say anything that was not clear previously. She did not say that none of the cuts would be accepted and implemented, but obviously some of them are farcical.

Darsad

For lenihan having a tanaiste like the inept one we have must be the equivalent of Bernard Dunne taking to the boxing ring with with one arm tied behind his back .

Darsad

But then I suppose having the Taoiseach and Taniste we have is like bernard dunne taking to the ring with both hands tied behind his back. go on the parish pump!!!

JonathanAnon

The woman is an idiot and needs to be removed from her position. She is an embarrassment to the nation.

What she probably meant to say is that a lot of what is in the McCarthy report is very hard to implement without having a serious affect on the services that affect the poorest of our society.. Well, that's the usual political crap that the politicians come out with anyway, but it would be a legitimate excuse palatable to the majority of the left and right.

FF would have been better off putting wellys on her and sending her to Athy, rather than speaking for the government. Bet they wish they had now.....

Mal-Adjusted

JonathanAnon wrote: »

The woman is an idiot and needs to be removed from her position. She is an embarrassment to the nation.

What she probably meant to say is that a lot of what is in the McCarthy report is very hard to implement without having a serious affect on the services that affect the poorest of our society.. Well, that's the usual political crap that the politicians come out with anyway, but it would be a legitimate excuse palatable to the majority of the left and right.

FF would have been better off putting wellys on her and sending her to Athy, rather than speaking for the government. Bet they wish they had now.....

lol, too true

prinz

JonathanAnon wrote: »

What she probably meant to say is that a lot of what is in the McCarthy report is very hard to implement without having a serious affect on the services that affect the poorest of our society..

She was 100% correct, some of the recommendations are ridiculous and haven't a hope of actually being implemented. What's wrong with saying that?

irish_bob

prinz wrote: »

She was 100% correct, some of the recommendations are ridiculous and haven't a hope of actually being implemented. What's wrong with saying that?

i dont believe a single one of the recomendations is redicoluous , coughlan has removed any doubt that she is an idiot , thank heavens we have brian lennehan in finance , the likes of coughlan would have the imf booking thier flights over , the cuts have to be implemented , they are not optional

the cut that should be easiest to implement is the closing of rural schools btw , take the parish where i live , thier are three schools within a four mile radius , the largest has around 75 pupils , the one closest to me has 32 pupils and the other one has around 28 pupils , all have special needs teachers and if the three were merged into the large school which is in the village , the furthest any pupil would have to travel is three miles , too many people in this country want schools , hospitals and international airports within spitting distance

Reginald P. DuM

It's actually unbelievable how bad this woman is. Minister for Jobs and all. FF hang your heads in shame.

FlutterinBantam

I have to agree, said it very early on, she is not up to the job.

She will be gone before next Summer.

Seth Brundle

Darsad wrote: »

For lenihan having a tanaiste like the inept one we have must be the equivalent of Bernard Dunne taking to the boxing ring with with one arm tied behind his back .

Since when has Lenihan had a Tánaiste?

prinz

irish_bob wrote: »

i dont believe a single one of the recomendations is redicoluous....

Closing 350 garda stations, to save a total of €1 million That makes no sense. If you want to cut a million there are far better ways of doing it.

irish_bob wrote: »

the cuts have to be implemented , they are not optional...

Cuts have to be made. The cuts proposed are optional however.

irish_bob

prinz wrote: »

Closing 350 garda stations, to save a total of €1 million That makes no sense. If you want to cut a million there are far better ways of doing it.




Cuts have to be made. The cuts proposed are optional however.

anyone who lives in rural ireland knows that many garda stations are hardly ever manned anyway and besides, their is no difference in a garda being 8 mile away instead of three , its baschically 5 mins of a time difference in a car

irish_bob

prinz wrote: »

Closing 350 garda stations, to save a total of €1 million That makes no sense. If you want to cut a million there are far better ways of doing it.




Cuts have to be made. The cuts proposed are optional however.

they are optional in the same way that i have the option of not paying my esb bill this month , this option however will result in my power being turned off , we are borrowing an unsustainable amount to run the country

Liam Byrne

prinz wrote: »

If you want to cut a million there are far better ways of doing it.

Getting rid of John O'Donoghue, Micheal Martin and Bertie Ahern (and their friends and appointees) 10 years ago would have made a fair dent in it alright

Can I ask the obvious question ? Who commissioned and paid for the report ? And if the proposals are as ridiculous and simplistic and unworkable as Couglan has implied, why were the "experts" involved considered or commissioned to do the report ?

I mean, if you wanted to cut costs in a high-street store, and an "expert" gave you a report that said "lay off all the staff and switch off all the lights to save electricity", would you pay them for said report ?

prinz

irish_bob wrote: »

they are optional in the same way that i have the option of not paying my esb bill this month , this option however will result in my power being turned off , we are borrowing an unsustainable amount to run the country

The report was never intended to be implemented in full, nor were the cuts. The brief was to come up with areas where cuts could be made, and suggest various plans. Some will be accepted outright I'm sure, others may be tweaked and changed, and others disregarded.

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Can I ask the obvious question ? Who commissioned and paid for the report ? And if the proposals are as ridiculous and simplistic and unworkable as Couglan has implied, why were the "experts" involved considered or commissioned to do the report ?

In fairness she only said some proposals. Not them all. They were made purely from an economics point of view, he could just as easily have cut €5 billion from the social welfare bill, but would that be implemented? Probably not.

As for other areas to make cuts..

THE COST of keeping an offender at the country's most secure jail in Portlaoise costs almost €270,000 per year, a new report shows.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1220/1229725700591.html

So just taking that figure, one prisoner in Portlaoise equates to the closure of over 90 garda stations... hmmm priorities people. I wonder how much a max security prison in Texas costs per prisoner...

Liam Byrne

prinz wrote: »

In fairness she only said some proposals. Not them all.

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't she repeat the word "many" many, many times ?

That's hardly the same as "some".

prinz

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but didn't she repeat the word "many" many, many times ?

That's hardly the same as "some".

Many...some.... apples and apples. She didn't say most or all.

the_syco

irish_bob wrote: »

if the three were merged into the large school which is in the village , the furthest any pupil would have to travel is three miles , too many people in this country want schools , hospitals and international airports within spitting distance

Unfortunately, someone will say that 2 schools are being closed, class sizes are being increases, etc. Also, I'd say a few teachers in each school are permanent, so I can't see them gracefully accepting redundancy.

prinz wrote: »

I wonder how much a max security prison in Texas costs per prisoner...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,951811-5,00.html

Prisons are extraordinarily expensive to build and operate. At a recently opened medium-security prison in Nevada, the price comes to $37,000 a cell, and a new, state-of-the-art maximum-security complex has cost Minnesotans $78,300 a cell. It takes about $15,000 to feed and guard an inmate for a year. National averages, though, can obscure almost freakish disparities between states. Inmates in Texas, at one extreme, build their prisons and grow 70% of their food, and so each prisoner costs the state only $3,577 a year. (Despite the free labor, the Texas legislature was forced to allot $96.5 million for prison-building for this year.) At Delaware's new maximum security facility, the annual cost per inmate is upward of $30,000.

Most jails here don't have much land around them, so I can't see that happening. Also, I'd say the farmers unions would probably compain about them losing business over it.

As for Portlaoise Prison, how many of the 203 prisoners are IRA/RIRA/PIRA/INLA? It's Irelands style of camp x-ray: lots of terrorists, no abuse, they're treated nicely, and some even have mobile phones to ring Liveline with... Any idea how much it costs to hold people in Mountjoy, since that prison holds 520 people, I'm guessing less?

prinz

the_syco wrote: »

Any idea how much it costs to hold people in Mountjoy, since that prison holds 520 people, I'm guessing less?

As of 2006...

... the costs are way ahead of Mountjoy, which is in second place at €100,400, and St Patrick's Institution for young offenders at €90,700.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cost-of-keeping-each-prisoner-in-portlaoise-runs-to-240000-79913.html

Liam Byrne

prinz wrote: »

Many...some.... apples and apples. She didn't say most or all.

I disagree; in my book, "many" would certainly imply a lot more than "some".

Yes, it's semantics (something Coughlan probably can't master) but check the following two sentences :

"Some people in Ireland are murderers"
"Many people in Ireland are murderers"

Are you really saying "apples and apples" - that you'd view the first of those sentences as equally worrysome as the second ?

I definitely wouldn't.

Yes, she didn't say "most", or even "a majority" (i.e. more than half, since even 50.01% would be a majority); but she did say "many" and not merely "some".

prinz

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And if the proposals are as ridiculous and simplistic and unworkable as Couglan has implied, why were the "experts" involved considered or commissioned to do the report ?

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, it's semantics (something Coughlan probably can't master) but check the following two sentences :
Yes, she didn't say "most", or even "a majority" (i.e. more than half, since even 50.01% would be a majority); but she did say "many" and not merely "some".

The experts involved were considered and commissioned to do the report because as you seem to agree, the majority are good ideas. Even the ones she has a problem with could be seen as good ideas by another political party/lobby group etc. However the cost/benefit ratio is simply not enought to warrant the implementation of them. The cabinet will be looking at these and working with it. The report was not meant to be the be all and end all of cuts. It was to present ideas and possible areas where cuts could be made. Like I said storm in a teacup trying to whip up a bit of controversy out of nothing. So she admits many of them need to be looked at again, what's the big deal? It doesn't mean she just referred to the report as a failure/waste of time, money and effort etc like people seem to be suggesting on here.

Liam Byrne

Well, at least one good thing came out of her speech today; I heard her say that the cabinet were considering a date for the election.....

aidan24326

JonathanAnon wrote: »

The woman is an idiot and needs to be removed from her position. She is an embarrassment to the nation.

That is true. However there is nothing to get excited about in what she said here .

jank

So can we all agree that she is an idiot? Besides from the closure of rural garda stations I wonder what else would she consider not making sense?

starbelgrade

jank wrote: »

So can we all agree that she is an idiot? Besides from the closure of rural garda stations I wonder what else would she consider and no making sense?

You might as well close our (rural) garda station for the amount of time it is open during a week (zero hours & probably lots of wasted rent & "man hours")..

As for Mary Coughlan... is she doubling up now as a politician aswell as an alcoholic singer?

As for Mary Harney... M.I.A.... A.W.O.L???!!!

jmcc

kbannon wrote: »

Since when has Lenihan had a Tánaiste?

Well Lenihan seems to be the only one displaying anything remotely like leadership qualities in the FF government. I think that a reshuffle is long overdue and it is, perhaps, only geographical concerns that keeps a string of FF mediocrities on the front bench.

Regards...jmcc

Liam Byrne

jmcc wrote: »

Well Lenihan seems to be the only one displaying anything remotely like leadership qualities in the FF government.

Yes, every leader should make massive financial decisions without even reading the relevant report! :rolleyes:

jank

jank wrote: »

So can we all agree that she is an idiot?

As a member of FF, I completely agree that she's an idiot, a real 'head in the hands, would someone just put her in a wardrobe for the next couple of years' idiot. I think everyone in the party would agree she's an idiot, though maybe in not such restrained language.

I think everyone is at a loss to know why she got such an important role and how she has kept it. And I think nothing shows the sheer disregard Cowen has for rank and file in FF more than the fact he kept this clown in a job, for some unfathomable reason, when he could easily have given us her head after the local elections.

He might plead loyalty, does he have any loyalty to the many capable local politicians who saw their votes drain away every time the public heard the words 'Mary Coughlan'. Sickening.

murphaph

Does he even have any loyalty to Ireland?

seligehgit

I just find it incredulous that Mary Coughlan continues to occupy the 2nd highest office in the land,the faux pas never cease.This has nothing to do with her gender and relates to the fact that she is totally out of her depth and is simply not up to the job.I cannot fathom why Cowen appointed her other than she is in his inner circle.How on earth does she propose the country turn around a massive budget deficit?Ok the McCarthy report is not perfect but the deficit has to be reduced via spending cuts or tax increases.Thankfully Brian Lenihan had the good sense to emphasise the point that this report can be used as a template when the estimates are been considered.Cowen must do a reshuffle soon and starting with the Tanaiste,replace her with somebody competent to do the job.

Captain Furball

So you expect the incompetent to appoint an competent person to do a job?
Genius.

seligehgit

seligehgit wrote: »

I cannot fathom why Cowen appointed her other than she is in his inner circle.

That could be a euphemism...

Captain Furball

Cowens "inner circle" is measured in light years.The fat bastard.

jimmmy

Liam Byrne wrote: »

I mean, if you wanted to cut costs in a high-street store, and an "expert" gave you a report that said "lay off all the staff and switch off all the lights to save electricity", would you pay them for said report ?

If your staff, pensions and electricity provider costs were the highest in the known world, and the expert said to reduce all three, and it was possible to do so rather than borrow 400 million per month to keep the show on the road, you would not say "much of the report makes no sense", or words to that effect.

Naz_st

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Can I ask the obvious question ? Who commissioned and paid for the report ? And if the proposals are as ridiculous and simplistic and unworkable as Couglan has implied, why were the "experts" involved considered or commissioned to do the report ?

And the government seem very flaky on the quality of their "experts". The ones that drew up the McCarthy report apparently now "don't make sense" but the NAMA bill that Lenihan told us was "drawn up on the basis of the expert advice and counsel available" was, of course, done by other, better, more reliable "experts". :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

jimmmy wrote: »

...the expert said to reduce all three....

That's not the scenario I described; if the expert said "reduce all three", then no-one would say "they don't make sense".

What I said was that if the expert's "solution" was to do away with all three, then they wouldn't make sense, and you wouldn't be expected to pay for such a nonsensical report.

So either

(a) Coughlan was wrong and the proposals do make sense, but it's just that the political will isn't there to do what's required (other than shaft the little people even more), or

(b) Coughlan was right and the proposals don't make sense, in which case the report was yet another a waste of our money

Actually, come to think of it, (a) is a waste of our money too. So either way, FF have wasted even more of our cash; big surprise there!!!

bonzos

Liam Byrne wrote: »

That's not the scenario I described; if the expert said "reduce all three", then no-one would say "they don't make sense".

What I said was that if the expert's "solution" was to do away with all three, then they wouldn't make sense, and you wouldn't be expected to pay for such a nonsensical report.

So either

(a) Coughlan was wrong and the proposals do make sense, but it's just that the political will isn't there to do what's required (other than shaft the little people even more), or

(b) Coughlan was right and the proposals don't make sense, in which case the report was yet another a waste of our money

Actually, come to think of it, (a) is a waste of our money too. So either way, FF have wasted even more of our cash; big surprise there!!!

whats the problem with wasting money?thats what FF are good at ...just look at JOD and rody moloy!she needs a kick in the arse out the door with the rest of the FF gansters

jmayo

irish_bob wrote: »

anyone who lives in rural ireland knows that many garda stations are hardly ever manned anyway and besides, their is no difference in a garda being 8 mile away instead of three , its baschically 5 mins of a time difference in a car

It is shi*e like that last statement that pees off most rural dwellers.
Have you ever covered 5 miles in 5 minutes on rural Irish roads or should I just ask if you drive a Scooby or Evo ?
Were not the rural polci station not a fine example of community policing ?
BTW you are right about them being hardly ever manned.

Deleted User wrote: »

As a member of FF, I completely agree that she's an idiot, a real 'head in the hands, would someone just put her in a wardrobe for the next couple of years' idiot. I think everyone in the party would agree she's an idiot, though maybe in not such restrained language.

I think everyone is at a loss to know why she got such an important role and how she has kept it. And I think nothing shows the sheer disregard Cowen has for rank and file in FF more than the fact he kept this clown in a job, for some unfathomable reason, when he could easily have given us her head after the local elections.

He might plead loyalty, does he have any loyalty to the many capable local politicians who saw their votes drain away every time the public heard the words 'Mary Coughlan'. Sickening.

Instead of worrying what she and her ilk are doing to the party why not worry what they are doing to the country :mad:

Oh I forgot you are in ff and the party is all that matters :rolleyes:

She is a mumpet in all "finality".

irish_bob

jmayo wrote: »

It is shi*e like that last statement that pees off most rural dwellers.
Have you ever covered 5 miles in 5 minutes on rural Irish roads or should I just ask if you drive a Scooby or Evo ?
Were not the rural polci station not a fine example of community policing ?
BTW you are right about them being hardly ever manned.



Instead of worrying what she and her ilk are doing to the party why not worry what they are doing to the country :mad:

Oh I forgot you are in ff and the party is all that matters :rolleyes:

She is a mumpet in all "finality".

i am a rural dweller , we all know how long the cops take to respond to calls so what difference does it make if the local station is three miles away or eight , as for the arguement about locals needing to know thier local copper , the local sergeant or rank and file is never from the area they are stationed in anyhow

bmaxi

irish_bob wrote: »

i am a rural dweller , we all know how long the cops take to respond to calls so what difference does it make if the local station is three miles away or eight , as for the arguement about locals needing to know thier local copper , the local sergeant or rank and file is never from the area they are stationed in anyhow

I don't see that it matters whether or not the Gardaí are from the local area, community policing is about interacting with the community.
Our local Garda station only opens once a week to sign unemployment dockets. Outside of that, even if there are Gardaí in the station they won't answer the door, so it might as well be closed.

aidan24326

jmcc wrote: »

I think that a reshuffle is long overdue and it is, perhaps, only geographical concerns that keeps a string of FF mediocrities on the front bench.

That's part of the problem. 'Geographical concerns' (i.e party concerns) have a big bearing on who gets cabinet positions.

Naz_st wrote: »

And the government seem very flaky on the quality of their "experts". The ones that drew up the McCarthy report apparently now "don't make sense" but the NAMA bill that Lenihan told us was "drawn up on the basis of the expert advice and counsel available" was, of course, done by other, better, more reliable "experts". :rolleyes:

When 'experts' are commisoned by the government for any type of report, 9 times out of 10 you can be certain that most if not all of said 'experts' will be connected to senior government politicians in one way or another. It's jobs for the boys FF style.

irish_bob

bmaxi wrote: »

I don't see that it matters whether or not the Gardaí are from the local area, community policing is about interacting with the community.
Our local Garda station only opens once a week to sign unemployment dockets. Outside of that, even if there are Gardaí in the station they won't answer the door, so it might as well be closed.

i for one have no desire for shooting the breeze with my local copper like i do with my postman , all people need to know is that the guards will be in like flynn when thier is a crime being committed

irish_bob

aidan24326 wrote: »

That's part of the problem. 'Geographical concerns' (i.e party concerns) have a big bearing on who gets cabinet positions.




When 'experts' are commisoned by the government for any type of report, 9 times out of 10 you can be certain that most if not all of said 'experts' will be connected to senior government politicians in one way or another. It's jobs for the boys FF style.

true , coughlan only got the number two gig because fianna fail feared a sinn fein steal in donegal

aidan24326

irish_bob wrote: »

true , coughlan only got the number two gig because fianna fail feared a sinn fein steal in donegal

I couldn't really comment on that as I'm not privy to the ins and outs of the Donegal constituency, though what you say may have been a factor. But in Coughlan's case, regardless of geography she is and has been one of Cowen's closest allies in FF, so I think this was a case of Cowen giving the top job to one of his buddies rather than selecting the most qualified person for the job (which Coughlan clearly isn't).

From a different and slightly cynical angle, isn't it an age old tactic for a leader to appoint and keep a relatively weak number two, thus lessening the challenge to his own authority? (this might be particularly apt in Cowen's case, as he is a weak leader himself)

It seems he wanted a Tanaiste who was weak, loyal and relatively unquestioning.

jank

Deleted User wrote: »

As a member of FF, I completely agree that she's an idiot, a real 'head in the hands, would someone just put her in a wardrobe for the next couple of years' idiot. I think everyone in the party would agree she's an idiot, though maybe in not such restrained language.

I think everyone is at a loss to know why she got such an important role and how she has kept it. And I think nothing shows the sheer disregard Cowen has for rank and file in FF more than the fact he kept this clown in a job, for some unfathomable reason, when he could easily have given us her head after the local elections.

He might plead loyalty, does he have any loyalty to the many capable local politicians who saw their votes drain away every time the public heard the words 'Mary Coughlan'. Sickening.

Brian Lenihen would have been the obvious choice but it appears that Cowen fears him alot more than Calamity Couglan. Its just politics but look at how it is damaging the country.

jmcc

Perhaps it is just as good talent attracts other good talent, incompetence attracts incompetence. Cowen banjaxed the economy while in Finance. So naturally he chose Coughlan as his second. The sooner Cowen and Coughlan are eliminated from government the better. The problem is that there isn't exactly a stellar array of talent in FF from which to choose their replacements.

Regards...jmcc

Morgans

I think it made decent political sense to have a female voice towards the forefront of the party. (Were FF so arrogant to begin grooming her as the first female Taoiseach, maybe, maybe not?) With the other option being Mary Hanafin who wasnt exactly backward in her candidature for party leader, Coughlan was the one to benefit from her friendship with the Taoiseach. Not competent enough for a senior ministry in my view.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Instead of worrying what she and her ilk are doing to the party why not worry what they are doing to the country :mad:

Oh I forgot you are in ff and the party is all that matters :rolleyes:

Instead of worrying about me and my opinion on a harmless website, why not worry about greater issues like the country and get out and do something.:mad:

irish_bob

aidan24326 wrote: »

I couldn't really comment on that as I'm not privy to the ins and outs of the Donegal constituency, though what you say may have been a factor. But in Coughlan's case, regardless of geography she is and has been one of Cowen's closest allies in FF, so I think this was a case of Cowen giving the top job to one of his buddies rather than selecting the most qualified person for the job (which Coughlan clearly isn't).

From a different and slightly cynical angle, isn't it an age old tactic for a leader to appoint and keep a relatively weak number two, thus lessening the challenge to his own authority? (this might be particularly apt in Cowen's case, as he is a weak leader himself)

It seems he wanted a Tanaiste who was weak, loyal and relatively unquestioning.

you are absolutley right , bertie had the same methood , he kept the weak but loyal closest to him , that way , they were no threat to his leadership yet backed him to the hilt and who was berties number two , yep, the big man from clara

Dannyboy83

Between the unused rural garda stations and the many post offices throughout the country, there would have been ample money & infrastructure available to start a new 'safe' bank.

Anyway, I'm all in favour of cuts, but this is a pointless measure in my opinion.
Gain €1 million and lose an outlet in various towns throughout the country - that would be senseless in my opinion.


€1 million isn't even a hydrogen molecule of a drop in the ocean.
Honestly, there are many places where quick money could be immediately scored, most of it by taking very simple precautions against corruption, such as ending unvouched expenses for TDs.
Those would be cutbacks which don't hurt anyone.