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Intel & Ryanair Yes Campaigns - An Open Question.

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    #92
    Bob_Harris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,619 ✭✭✭Bob_Harris


    What do investors care if we vote Yes or No? We are still part of Europe either way.

    Regardless of whether we vote Yes or No, they will still choose low wage countries over us anyway.


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    #93
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,792 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    What do investors care if we vote Yes or No? We are still part of Europe either way.

    Regardless of whether we vote Yes or No, they will still choose low wage countries over us anyway.
    You honestly think the process of deciding which country to invest hundreds of millions of dollars in consists of a checklist with those two items on it?


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    #94
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I think you're as entitled to your opinions as you are to your assumptions, but that if the Irish-American Chamber of Commerce is urging a "yes" vote to promote confidence in Ireland as a place to invest, I'm more likely to listen to them than to you - with all due respect.

    Thanks. And your entitled to believe the Irish-American Chamber of commerce.

    We'll see if the majority of the electorate agree with you on Saturday.


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    #95
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    Bob_Harris wrote: »
    What do investors care if we vote Yes or No? We are still part of Europe either way.

    Regardless of whether we vote Yes or No, they will still choose low wage countries over us anyway.

    The first statement is true.

    The second is not necessarily true. Investment relies on a large array of variables including educated workforce, good infrastructure, broadband availability AND of course wage competitiveness.

    To state that these smart investors will confuse a No to Lisbon with Ireland getting booted out of Europe is ridiculous.


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    #96
    gar32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    No they have not paid the fine!!!

    I know Intel are tring to get investment for a new factory here and the Irish directors must feel a yes vote will help them get that investment. Could it be that Lisbon is good for business and not for people. hhhhmmmmm ????


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    #97
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    gar32 wrote: »
    No they have not paid the fine!!!

    I know Intel are tring to get investment for a new factory here and the Irish directors must feel a yes vote will help them get that investment. Could it be that Lisbon is good for business and not for people. hhhhmmmmm ????

    Because a new Intel factory would employ sentient mould as opposed to people?

    I think you might well find that quite a lot of people would be rather pleased with a new Intel factory.

    amused,
    Scofflaw


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    #98
    marco_polo
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 10,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭marco_polo


    gar32 wrote: »
    No they have not paid the fine!!!

    I know Intel are tring to get investment for a new factory here and the Irish directors must feel a yes vote will help them get that investment. Could it be that Lisbon is good for business and not for people. hhhhmmmmm ????

    I have no idea if this has any basis in reality or not but I can think of a few construction workers and engineers who wouldn't mind, if this is true.


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    #99
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    gar32 wrote: »
    No they have not paid the fine!!!

    I know Intel are tring to get investment for a new factory here and the Irish directors must feel a yes vote will help them get that investment. Could it be that Lisbon is good for business and not for people. hhhhmmmmm ????

    lol i lol. read Scofflaws reply which points out what is wrong with your post perfectly.

    I'm sure if Intel built a new factory, there would be people looking for work humping it at the prospect of getting to work there.

    Maybe its good for business and people? Nah, that would be crazy :pac:


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    #100
    the_syco
    Registered Users Posts: 37,295 ✭✭✭✭the_syco


    isocket wrote: »
    Does corporate 'intervention' in the franchise of a nation lead to healthy democratic debate?
    Like Declan Ganley?


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    #101
    Húrin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,045 ✭✭✭Húrin


    I am probably going to vote Yes but I expect Ryanair's intervention has reduced the credibility of the Yes side!

    I agree with other posters: allowing companies to intervene in political campaigns is not a risk worth taking. Capital has no loyalty to any country. See the current US healthcare debate.
    Scofflaw wrote: »
    I would agree with this up to a point, that point being that Intel et al are effectively corporate citizens of Ireland, and as such there is a case to be made for them voting on an issue they feel affects them.

    Companies aren't people! Thus they can't be citizens of any kind.


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    #102
    gar32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    Because a new Intel factory would employ sentient mould as opposed to people?

    I think you might well find that quite a lot of people would be rather pleased with a new Intel factory.

    amused,
    Scofflaw

    I am 1 of 600 people who will be told next week if I have a Job or not in Intel. 294 people on the dole because of the down turn. A new factory would use less then 25% of the people used in the factory being closed. Automation (Robots) do most of the moving in any new factory. There where over 5000 people working on Intel Site 2 years ago. I would say after next week it will be down to 3000 or less.

    If I do keep my Job I will be hoping its not automated more, so they will not need me in around 2 years time I guess. Time to wake up people. Companies are changing fast. Automation of jobs is the cost saver mulitnations need to make even more money. Talk to any people at the end of the phone lately? ATM replaced 40,000 jobs in the USA alone in last 20 years. Are you next? I think I will be soon.


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    #103
    meglome
    Registered Users Posts: 7,980 ✭✭✭meglome


    gar32 wrote: »
    I am 1 of 600 people who will be told next week if I have a Job or not in Intel. 294 people on the dole because of the down turn. A new factory would use less then 25% of the people used in the factory being closed. Automation (Robots) do most of the moving in any new factory. There where over 5000 people working on Intel Site 2 years ago. I would say after next week it will be down to 3000 or less.

    If I do keep my Job I will be hoping its not automated more, so they will not need me in around 2 years time I guess. Time to wake up people. Companies are changing fast. Automation of jobs is the cost saver mulitnations need to make even more money. Talk to any people at the end of the phone lately? ATM replaced 40,000 jobs in the USA alone in last 20 years. Are you next? I think I will be soon.

    Is this something to do with the Lisbon treaty?


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    #104
    thebman
    Closed Accounts Posts: 10,012 ✭✭✭✭thebman


    gar32 wrote: »
    Because a new Intel factory would employ sentient mould as opposed to people?

    I think you might well find that quite a lot of people would be rather pleased with a new Intel factory.

    amused,
    Scofflaw

    I am 1 of 600 people who will be told next week if I have a Job or not in Intel. 294 people on the dole because of the down turn. A new factory would use less then 25% of the people used in the factory being closed. Automation (Robots) do most of the moving in any new factory. There where over 5000 people working on Intel Site 2 years ago. I would say after next week it will be down to 3000 or less.

    If I do keep my Job I will be hoping its not automated more, so they will not need me in around 2 years time I guess. Time to wake up people. Companies are changing fast. Automation of jobs is the cost saver mulitnations need to make even more money. Talk to any people at the end of the phone lately? ATM replaced 40,000 jobs in the USA alone in last 20 years. Are you next? I think I will be soon.

    There will be new jobs, do you really want to do a job someone can get a robot to do?

    I think your looking at this the wrong way. Your seeing Intel upgrading the plant as jobs lost because of the old plant but in reality its jobs saved/created as they could just as easily built the new plant in another country but choose Ireland.

    Overall it is a positive even if there are negative aspects to it (good luck keeping the job BTW, mines gone through outsourcing to Eastern Europe).


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    #105
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    thebman wrote: »
    lol i lol. read Scofflaws reply which points out what is wrong with your post perfectly.

    I'm sure if Intel built a new factory, there would be people looking for work humping it at the prospect of getting to work there.

    Maybe its good for business and people? Nah, that would be crazy :pac:

    It's not the new factory I'd be worried about.

    It's more the fact that Intel are butting in on the debate, havn't paid their fine yet and are obviously currying favour to get it reduced in the ECJ.. seems obvious really.

    The yes side will respond and say this is an 'assumption' - you decide.


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    #106
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    free-man wrote: »
    It's more the fact that Intel are butting in on the debate, havn't paid their fine yet and are obviously currying favour to get it reduced in the ECJ.. seems obvious really.
    .


    This is ludicrous.
    Out of interest, why do you think RyanAir are sticking there oar in? In case they get a fine in the future?

    Corporations have vested interests and currently can legitimately lobby, end of.
    Just like Ganley et al.

    However, at least Intel are doing so on the basis that it will be good for their business (and I am not talking about reduced fines here) unlike Libertas etc who have no clear stated aim (beyond a No), and a stategy of confusion and scarmongering.


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    #107
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    vinylbomb wrote: »
    This is ludicrous.
    Out of interest, why do you think RyanAir are sticking there oar in? In case they get a fine in the future?

    Corporations have vested interests and currently can legitimately lobby, end of.
    Just like Ganley et al.

    However, at least Intel are doing so on the basis that it will be good for their business (and I am not talking about reduced fines here)

    I was talking about Intel and the fact that their fine hasn't been paid yet and leveraging goodwill to get it reduced - makes sense really if your Intel.


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    #108
    Diarmuid
    Registered Users Posts: 3,981 ✭✭✭Diarmuid


    free-man wrote: »
    I was talking about Intel and the fact that their fine hasn't been paid yet and leveraging goodwill to get it reduced - makes sense really if your Intel.
    FFS Can't you just let it go about the fine. After 2 pages of your posts repeating the same thing, we know you position on it


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    #109
    OldJay
    Closed Accounts Posts: 943 ✭✭✭OldJay


    free-man wrote: »
    I was talking about Intel and the fact that their fine hasn't been paid yet and leveraging goodwill to get it reduced - makes sense really if your Intel.
    Why don't they just pay the fine, eh? Maynooth, Leixlip, Celbridge, Lucan - feck it - most of North Kildare and West Dublin need the kick in the teeth, don't they?
    Begone evil Intel . . . :rolleyes:


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    #110
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    Diarmuid wrote: »
    FFS Can't you just let it go about the fine. After 2 pages of your posts repeating the same thing, we know you position on it

    Just replying to people's comments suggesting it's nothing to do with their involvement, think I'm allowed to do that as its a y'know ...discussion ... forum :pac:


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    #111
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    free-man wrote: »
    makes sense really if your Intel.

    It might make sense in the fictional universe where No voters live, a universe where anything is possible simply by "reading between the lines" and deriving all sorts of nonsense from no known source, then passing it off as the truth.

    For the rest of us in the real world (the non-conspiracy theorists) there are systems, rules and regulations which arent as flexible as those which you seem to adhere to.


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    #112
    free-man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 350 ✭✭free-man


    vinylbomb wrote: »
    It might make sense in the fictional universe where No voters live, a universe where anything is possible simply by "reading between the lines" and deriving all sorts of nonsense from no known source, then passing it off as the truth.

    Ohhhh.. you mean like the 'fact' that a Yes will boost the economy or provide more jobs?

    Maybe i should not read between the lines and check the treaty text.. nope can't find it there either?


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    #113
    gar32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    What time will the count finish on sat? I am sure intel and Ryanair will be giving free gifts away if Yes comes in. Watch on their web sites :)

    A chip and a flight to somewhere. WWWOOOWWW :D


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    #114
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    free-man wrote: »
    Ohhhh.. you mean like the 'fact' that a Yes will boost the economy or provide more jobs?

    As I said in another thread. Thers are no FACTS that have not occurred yet, ie they are in the future. One can only predict. It is generally accepted wisdom that the people who will make the most accurate predictions pertaining to a specific area, are those that are currently experts in the field.
    SO generally economists predict the economy.
    With that in mind please have a read of the following.

    http://www.indecon.ie/download/pdf/aw_lisbon_sept.pdf


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    #115
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    vinylbomb wrote: »
    SO generally economists predict the economy.

    No, they make sh1t forecasts and then explain how things turned out the way they did, not the way they predicted.


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    #116
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    dresden8 wrote: »
    No, they make sh1t forecasts and then explain how things turned out the way they did, not the way they predicted.

    If you've got something constructive to say please say it.
    But the situation as it is involves experts making predictions.

    Rocket scientists calculate the physics of space.
    Meterologists attempt to forecast the weather.
    Economists try to predict the economy.

    Bullsh1tters just bullsh1t.


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    #117
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,289 ✭✭✭dresden8


    vinylbomb wrote: »
    If you've got something constructive to say please say it.
    But the situation as it is involves experts making predictions.

    Rocket scientists calculate the physics of space.
    Meterologists attempt to forecast the weather.
    Economists try to predict the economy.

    Bullsh1tters just bullsh1t.

    I thought I was quite clear in what I said. Economists predictions ain't worth crap. Just like your posts.


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    #118
    vinylbomb
    Registered Users Posts: 605 ✭✭✭vinylbomb


    dresden8 wrote: »
    I thought I was quite clear in what I said. Economists predictions ain't worth crap. Just like your posts.

    Jump back under your rock there Troll, and send someone educated out for a chat like a good little inbred, cheers.


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    #119
    gar32
    Registered Users Posts: 1,024 ✭✭✭gar32


    George Carlin once said:


    "The rich make a LOT of money, and pay NONE of the taxes; the middle class makes a LITTLE bit of money, and pays ALL of the taxes; and, the poor are just there to scare the ***** out the middle class, and keep them going to those jobs."


    You work hard now you hear!!!!!


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    #120
    Scofflaw
    Registered Users Posts: 23,283 ✭✭✭✭Scofflaw


    gar32 wrote: »
    George Carlin once said:


    "The rich make a LOT of money, and pay NONE of the taxes; the middle class makes a LITTLE bit of money, and pays ALL of the taxes; and, the poor are just there to scare the ***** out the middle class, and keep them going to those jobs."


    You work hard now you hear!!!!!

    And George Carlin was wrong - the rich pay most of the taxes, while the poor get most of the benefits. Something I have no problem with.

    cordially,
    Scofflaw


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