Lisbon Campaigners reach out to the Laydeez

MissFlitworth

in quite a bizarre fashion, honest to feckin god 'Yes in the City', what?! what's that even supposed to mean? 'Yeah, women, vote yes! Cos look how glam and pert-boobed these ladies are, that could be you too! Remember Sex in the City? The Lisbon Treaty is so Sex in the City, Carrie would totes vote yes!' Are they deliberately trying to beat the no campaign and loony-bins Cóir in the crazy stakes?

Between this and a dripping-with-condesencion 'what's this EU thingy' ad I saw in the cinema a couple of weeks back I'm ready to colonise a Skellig and declare independance.

Sorry for crappy quality photo

Jood

I think that is actually hilarious, instead of telling people step by step what the treaty is about in a non-biased fashion they think that by sticking up a picture of 4 women that we'll vote their way!!

Its no wonder the country's gone to pot!!!

Xiney

Earthhorse

Yup. I saw this poster up on my road on the way out the other day and literally guffawed.

Maple

:O Good jesus.

Although what else can we expect from a government who wants to spend 15million plus on a new postcode system while the queues at the soup kitchen grow longer every day. The lack of logic makes the mind boggle.

Tricity Bendix

A few folks were discussing these posters in the LGB forum, which attracted some of the brains behind them to come out of the woodwork. I'll post up what they had to say in defence of their posters after I described them as a meaningless contribution.

The_Minister wrote: »

As for the poster, its lighthearted, and an attempt to make the treaty a bit more fun - most people think the Lisbon debate is the most boring issue in Irish politics, and they are right. There is no harm in trying to relax things a little.

Het-Field wrote: »

You are not the first one to voice disapproval at the posters. However, they were used as part of a market research exercise, and groups of women overwhelmingly voiced their approval at the posters. Like most posters, they contain little or no information on the treaty. That is due to the fact that aside from the Charter of Fundamental rights, there is little or nothing which can be proffered as an answer to the staple question of the Irish people, i.e "what does the Treaty do for me ?" You can put trite lines such as "Yes For Jobs", "Ireland Needs Europe". You may also use the polar opposite to seek a no vote. However, these posters have been utilised in Dublin City, hence the "Yes In The City" slogan. It may seem low brow, and I dont disagree with you. However, it does as much as any other poster in terms of information content.

liberalsociety wrote: »

In terms of posters the Liberal Society have more than a few when it comes to hitting hard. A careful reading of the Millward Brown IMS report demonstrated that women recorded a stronger No vote than men (56% to 51%) as did the younger age groups, with 25- 34 year olds being most opposed to the Treaty at 59%. Participants in the Milward Brown Research especially women demonstrated a negative response to misleading campaign posters, as Coir are now discovering with their infamous €1.84 posters.

The Yes-in the City poster is simple, unambiguous and it is working. Whether the anoraks like or not is immaterial, the message is getting through.

Tricity Bendix

maple wrote: »

:O Good jesus.

Although what else can we expect from a government who wants to spend 15million plus on a new postcode system while the queues at the soup kitchen grow longer every day. The lack of logic makes the mind boggle.

Posters actually come from a group called Liberal Society, which has nothing to do with the government.



but the new postcode system is still a joke :P

maple

"The Yes-in the City poster is simple, unambiguous and it is working." bit premature, dontcha think

maple wrote: »

:O Good jesus.

Although what else can we expect from a government who wants to spend 15million plus on a new postcode system while the queues at the soup kitchen grow longer every day. The lack of logic makes the mind boggle.

Every single time I hear "x million" and "the govt", I think "9 million for cervical cancer vaccine was 'too expensive'". Over and over.

Maple

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

Posters actually come from a group called Liberal Society, which has nothing to do with the government.



but the new postcode system is still a joke :P

I got my rants crossed.

astrofool

maple wrote: »

:O Good jesus.

Although what else can we expect from a government who wants to spend 15million plus on a new postcode system while the queues at the soup kitchen grow longer every day. The lack of logic makes the mind boggle.

The postcode system will earn back the investment made very quickly, it's not a risky investment (the pay off in extra economic growth enabled by the system should dwarf the initial cost), so should be relatively easy to fund.

If you're going to pick a target, pick one that is risky, with no pay off.

Anyway, the poster is no better or worse than most of them out there.

Tricity Bendix

astrofool wrote: »

Anyway, the poster is no better or worse than most of them out there.

Personally, I think it is. I think its the worst poster out there because there is no message behind it other than "we want women to vote yes, lots of women like Sex in the City, ergo we need to be like Sex in the City".

At least other posters try and put out an idea or a concept.

Maple

astrofool wrote: »

The postcode system will earn back the investment made very quickly, it's not a risky investment (the pay off in extra economic growth enabled by the system should dwarf the initial cost), so should be relatively easy to fund.

How so? Genuine question.

astrofool wrote: »

If you're going to pick a target, pick one that is risky, with no pay off.

I just don't understand how when they're making cut-backs in the health service, public services, thinking of introducing new tax levies, basically when there is so much wrong that they're not bothered fixing how they think its logical to undertake a new project like this.

astrofool wrote: »

Anyway, the poster is no better or worse than most of them out there.

I beg to differ.

Het-Field

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

Personally, I think it is. I think its the worst poster out there because there is no message behind it other than "we want women to vote yes, lots of women like Sex in the City, ergo we need to be like Sex in the City".

At least other posters try and put out an idea or a concept.

Would you rather us peddle lies about a serious reduction in our minimum wage ?

Would you rather us proffer that a yes vote will somehow create jobs ? While it wont do us any harm on the jobs front vis-a-vis FDI etc, not one job will be created directly through the Treaty. Furthermore, our domestic situation in terms of competitiveness will also need to be addressed before Ireland becomes an attractive hub for potential investors.

All and sundry have utilised red herrings, and outright lies to achieve their aim. However, the real ire (on this forum) is reserved for a group, who contribute "nothing" to the debate. Remember, we have peddled no lies, or misinformation. We are promoting the vote, and our leaflets prove informative.

Seriously TB, you really have to give the whole jealousy thing a rest. Im begining to think your online campaign against our posters has more than just a political motivation.

Silverfish

This thread is for discussion of how the target audience of the poster (women) feel about the poster.

If people want to debate the Lisbon Treaty, they may use the Politics forum if possible.

We would ask that people leave personal animosity aside, and not drag debates from other forums to here.

Thanks.

Het-Field

Het-Field wrote: »

Would you rather us peddle lies about a serious reduction in our minimum wage ?

No, we'd all rather have posters that aren't stupid, actually

Do you honestly think you can throw up whatever crap you want because oh well, the others aren't much better anyway?
It's just stupid.

Im begining to think your online campaign against our posters has more than just a political motivation.

Without knowing TB, I'd guess that's true - it's an anti-idiocy motivation. Anti-polluting our streets and eyes with posters (in general) that are getting ever more ridiculous and further from the point of the treaty.


Personally I thought SATC was a load of anti-feminist drivel, this would only tempt me to vote no!

MissFlitworth

Het-Field wrote: »

Would you rather us peddle lies about a serious reduction in our minimum wage ?

Would you rather us proffer that a yes vote will somehow create jobs ? While it wont do us any harm on the jobs front vis-a-vis FDI etc, not one job will be created directly through the Treaty. Furthermore, our domestic situation in terms of competitiveness will also need to be addressed before Ireland becomes an attractive hub for potential investors.

All and sundry have utilised red herrings, and outright lies to achieve their aim.

Ah now, are you for real? How can you argue that because other posters are worse/have outright lies on them it's ok for you to put rubbish like the 'yes in the city' poster out there. I thought the 'everyone else is doing it, leave me alone' type arguments died out in the playground. Were your only options really 'lying like everyone else' or 'weird crap'? The reason it caught my eye is because it is the absolute pinnacle of all the awful Lisbon crap out there, it makes no sense whatsoever. Why not random pictures of other stuff women are supposed to like? Twilight themed yes to Lisbon posters? - 'Edward wants you to vote yes' Why not the Care Bears giving a big cuddly Lisbon thumbs up? Or how about a big 'YES' spelled out in cupcakes?

Het-Field

bluewolf wrote: »

No, we'd all rather have posters that aren't stupid, actually

Do you honestly think you can throw up whatever crap you want because oh well, the others aren't much better anyway?
It's just stupid.


Without knowing TB, I'd guess that's true - it's an anti-idiocy motivation. Anti-polluting our streets and eyes with posters (in general) that are getting ever more ridiculous and further from the point of the treaty.


Personally I thought SATC was a load of drivel, this would only tempt me to vote no!

What kind of vapid nonsense are you spouting.

So am I to assume that you see the lies (admitted) of Coir, or the misrepresentations of the two main parties as useful to this debate ? In spite of the fact that their claims have little or nothing to do with the Treaty. These are dangerous and anti democratic tactics. What about the CSP who's posters imply that the treaty will create an EU superstate ?They dont validly contribute to the debate, nor do they serve a meaningful purpose.

This small campaign of keyboard warriors has become tiresome. We have admitted that the posters are low brow. What more do you want ? I know more than enough educated and clever women who have been more than supportive of the posters. They have not identified them as "talking down", they have identifed them as light hearted.

Nevyn

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

Posters actually come from a group called Liberal Society, which has nothing to do with the government.

They are what is left of the progressive democrats from what I've seen.

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

but the new postcode system is still a joke :P

I think that is something which is needed will bring jobs and honestly save lives as fire engines and ambulances will be a lot less likely to get lost.

From what I have seen of the liberal society they are trying to make politics sexy by putting up poster of hwat women, and honestly what a fail.

Het-Field

Het-Field wrote: »

What kind of vapid nonsense are you spouting.

I could ask you the same question. At least my vapid nonsense isn't being blown up into posters to annoy everybody in the city with under the pretext of supporting the vote.

So am I to assume that you see the lies (admitted) of Coir, or the misrepresentations of the two main parties as useful to this debate ?

Am I to assume you can't read properly? Or are you just making things up now?

In spite of the fact that their claims have little or nothing to do with the Treaty. These are dangerous and anti democratic tactics. What about the CSP who's posters imply that the treaty will create an EU superstate ?They dont validly contribute to the debate, nor do they serve a meaningful purpose.

This small campaign of keyboard warriors has become tiresome. We have admitted that the posters are low brow. What more do you want ? I know more than enough educated and clever women who have been more than supportive of the posters. They have not identified them as "talking down", they have identifed them as light hearted.

Good for them. We're calling it ridiculous. And we're perfectly entitled to do so in our own forum. if you don't like it, take off.

Nevyn

Het-Field wrote: »

So am I to assume that you see the lies (admitted) of Coir, or the misrepresentations of the two main parties as useful to this debate ? In spite of the fact that their claims have little or nothing to do with the Treaty. These are dangerous and anti democratic tactics. What about the CSP who's posters imply that the treaty will create an EU superstate ?They dont validly contribute to the debate, nor do they serve a meaningful purpose.

So you are happy to stoop to the level of Coir?
And think that women will accept that?

By the way ladies, Coir is the new name for the a certain collective who have been also known as Youth Defense/Mother&Child/NaturalLaw party/S.P.U.C.

Het-Field wrote: »

This small campaign of keyboard warriors has become tiresome.

Wow.
This thread has less then 20 posts as I write this and a few women have said they found the postera objectionable you have a handful of posts and you are tired of talking about the topic and are saying you are being attacked by female keyboard warrior? Over react much?

Het-Field wrote: »

We have admitted that the posters are low brow. What more do you want ?

Facts, figures something which will engage our brains instead of making us roll our eyes. That level of poster is saying, if you are smart and sexy you will vote yes, crap reasons for voting yes and frankly I would not be surprised if Emmeline Pankhurst is rolling in her grave on that one.

Het-Field wrote: »

I know more than enough educated and clever women who have been more than supportive of the posters. They have not identified them as "talking down", they have identifed them as light hearted.

OK then you had a focus female group who where they?
Who are these women who are more educated and clever then those of use who do find them objectionable?

Dudess

Those posters are hilarious. What's even more funny is Het-Field and Liberalsociety's inability to take valid criticism of them, so they resort to being personally abusive and throwing out unsubstantiated accusations.

Good work.

Wagon

My mate told me about this yesterday, she would almost vote no because of it.

Nothing is as bad as this though

Tricity Bendix

Silverfish wrote: »

We would ask that people leave personal animosity aside, and not drag debates from other forums to here.

Thanks.

I had no intention of draggin a debate anywhere, I was just trying to give some more context to the thread. I have no personal animosity towards Het-Field and i have no intention of debating with him about any 'campaign' or and 'jealosy' i might have. Frankly, because i don't think its even worth debating.


On Topic: I hated SitC, so I guess the chances of me liking this were always going to be slim. How do people who liked SitC feel about it?

Jood

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

I had no intention of draggin a debate anywhere, I was just trying to give some more context to the thread. I have no personal animosity towards Het-Field and i have no intention of debating with him about any 'campaign' or and 'jealosy' i might have. Frankly, because i don't think its even worth debating.


On Topic: I hated SitC, so I guess the chances of me liking this were always going to be slim. How do people who liked SitC feel about it?

I love Sex and the City, more now than I did when it first came on the telly, but that doesnt mean that I'm going to be swayed one way or another by an Irish poster riding on the back of an American tv programme.

Nevyn

SaTC has it merits, by todays standards its very dated and the film made a mockery of it
but in it's time when it was being aired and made it was in a league of it's own and I think raised a lot of issues which were not spoken about. So despite the 'ladies' in it being stereotypical and the show being far to focused on getting a man in general I do have a soft spot for it but I don't want to be any of those characters.

And anyone who thinks that linking in my mind voting in a certain way to mean that I would be glamours and sophisticated like the 'ladies' from that show has certainly got it wrong.

skelliser

nice one, ye have just belittled and patronised women, well done

panda100

Tricity Bendix wrote: »

A few folks were discussing these posters in the LGB forum, which attracted some of the brains behind them to come out of the woodwork. I'll post up what they had to say in defence of their posters after I described them as a meaningless contribution.

Two ex PD's are the brains behind the operations....Interesting...

In all fairness at least the liberal party were trying to make some effort to connect with women, a very misguided attempt but an attempt nonethless. Their a lot better than the god damn awful "Women for Europe" that are so disconnected from the voting public that they held a public meeting in Kilkenny the night of the All Ireland hurling final?!

I applaud those in politics who try and engage with women, as they are often the most disenfranchised part of the voting electorate. While I completely disagree with the PD party politics, they were the only mainstream party that had a 50:50 gender ratio.

The posters seem to be up mainly on the southside,I saw them in Ranelagh and Donnybrook but none around Phibsborough where I live. I presume there trying to appeal to a certain, more affluent type of Irish ladies.
The posters are woeful though. Its sad that the Liberal party are using the same condescending vein of advertising as 'Generation Yes'. Women and young people, the biggest groups who voted No the last time should be taken seriously. Trotting out celebrities, wearing t'shirts saying ' I only kiss boys who vote Yes', and now this poster. Its like women are just not taken seriously and we are easily swayed by frivolous,shiny things.

What does Sex and the City have to do with the Lisbon Treaty?? Will I have the money and the lifestyle of Carrie If I vote Yes? Somehow I don't think so.

You say that its meant to be lighthearted?Why are you turning something as serious as the Lisbon treaty that will affect all out lives into a joke?

astrofool

I'd challenge anyone to find a poster on either side of the debate that is actually meaningful, or accurate in any way. All election posters are, by design, vapid and designed to coerce the viewer to vote their way, without any real debate on them.

But it's good to see politics being discussed.

panda100

astrofool wrote: »

I'd challenge anyone to find a poster on either side of the debate that is actually meaningful, or accurate in any way. All election posters are, by design, vapid and designed to coerce the viewer to vote their way, without any real debate on them.

But it's good to see politics being discussed.

Oh yeah personally those posters have no effect on me during referendums or elections. There a waste of money, bad for the environment and should be banned.

astrofool

Well, unfortunately, they work, the politician with most money spent on advertising usually wins the election.

Kooli

astrofool wrote: »

I'd challenge anyone to find a poster on either side of the debate that is actually meaningful, or accurate in any way. All election posters are, by design, vapid and designed to coerce the viewer to vote their way, without any real debate on them.

But it's good to see politics being discussed.

Yes I agree, but the difference about these ones is that they are actually insulting. As another poster said, it's like women are frivolous creatures who will be distracted by shiny things.

If you're going to single women out and target them in this debate, does it have to be in such a vapid, superficial way? 'Let's target women voters - they like that show about shoes don't they?' Yup, this is the stuff we care about...:rolleyes:

And by the way I am not anti-SATC at all, in fact I loved it.