Suicide- Should it be discussed openly.

Mr. Incognito

I had been writing an article on suicide and then Darren Sutherland was found dead in his apartment, the English media are reporting he hung himself. I'm reproducing the article here. I was unsure whether to post in Humanities or not but AH gives a wide spectrum of opinion so if the mods here want to move it feel free.

There is a word that, historically, is not discussed in the media. Its stigma is an ancient one. You can curse to your hearts content after the watershed but you'll never get this past the censors. The word is suicide. I heard reported on the radio on newstalk when I was driving today that there are more deaths in Ireland from suicide than fatalities on the road. That shocked me. Ireland, with it's gum ball rally roads that were sneezed onto an undulating landscape. A country where our politicians say a few drinks are grand and “ah, sure nothing wrong with it with getting into the car to drive home.” A country where you can fail your driving test with no driving experience, be certified dangerous on the road and then get in your car and drive home? This faraway land has more people killing themselves that the perverse concrete lottery scythes down? Wow.

I had to dig out some statistics. Here's a study done by Paul Corcoran and Ellen Arensman. Kudos. Yoink.

http://www.nosp.ie/mortality_statistics.pdf

The Results showed that the number of suicides in Ireland doubled between 1987 and 1998. They appear to level off between 1998 and 2003 and per the Irish Association of Suicidology (yes, they exist) they seem to have stayed at this plateau. Their stats are here:

http://www.ias.ie/stats.htm

The statistics scared the **** out of me. For example there is a column for 5-14 year olds. As a father that column really scares me.

Suicide is one of those weird things that we as mortal beings have to get our perverbial heads around. Whether we like to admit it or not we've all flirted with the idea. Don't believe me? Have a discussion over the water cooler with your mates on how they would like to die. Everyone has an opinion. Some are drowners, some are going to “in my sleep”, others, like myself, are the massive coronary heart attack thank you very much. We cannot go on burying our heads in the sand and pretending it doesn't exist. It's a human condition but suicide carries with it an enormous stigma. They cheated.

The thing about suicide is there is no point trying to rationalise it. It's not rational. It's generally impulsive and its finality is probably not grasped by those that undertake it. It's perceived effects are the full myriad or human emotions. We see copycat suicides presumably by those that seek attention. Suicides that seek to hurt others but mostly suicide is undertaken by those that want a way out. The ultimate Zanax to make the pain go away. **** this, I'm outta here. But the thing is, when you're dead you're not coming back and all the supposed hurt and attention you were seeking to escape it's no longer yours. It's passed onto those that are left picking up the pieces and trying, and sometimes failing to emotionally glue them together again.

When I started this article I thought I was in the red zone. The high risk 20-30 male, and all the intangible pressures that supposedly go with it but digging out the stats I'm only marginally at risk than the little old lady down the street. This affects all of us and shiney coloured pie charts don't dimish the real pain of said little old ladys kids when Mommy tops off after popping off to Bingo.

Suicide exists. It's been here for as long as humans developed self awareness. Putting our fingers in our ears won't make it go away. A culture of don't ask, don't tell is no longer acceptable. It needs to be addressed. It needs to be taken out of the veil of secrecy and mysticism. We need to talk about death and not glorify it. I mean, this is the week Republicans are celebrating the suicide of ten political prisoners who starved themselves to death. Is this the image we want to impart on vulnerable people of suicide? When we do not have public debate on the issues we do not have a balanced and educated view to form an opinion on. The study above was remarkable for two things that seem to have been lost on the authors. I'll quote

“Either-way decriminalization would be presumed to lead to an increase in suicide whereas the reported number of suicide deaths that occurred in 1993 was actually 10% lower than in 1992 a rare decrease”

What the authors didn't seem to appreciate is that the decriminisation of suicide brought it into the remit of public debate. People talked openly about it. The families of suicide victims spoke openly of the stigma and pain and suffering and whole hearted trauma of it all and 10% listened and thought better and then instead of learning from the experience we all went back to pretending again.

The second point the authors missed, and this is obvious, is their own bigotry. Decriminisation would be presumed to lead to an increase? Are you mental? Oh, yipee I can kill myself and not go to jail. What? Do you think someone about to commit suicide gives a fiddlers **** about the legal consequences of death. Sure, sue me. There is an inherent misunderstanding right there of the very nature of suicide and this from the authors of a study on same. It makes me wonder.

And because I'm an unqualified half-wit who obviously doesn't know what he's talking about I'll reproduce the myths of suicide from the IAS webpage. Take care out there.

http://www.ias.ie/myths.htm

Myths About Suicide
Those who talk about suicide are the least likely to attempt it - NOT TRUE. About 80% of those who take their own lives will have talked about it to some significant other in the few months before hand.

If someone is going to complete suicide they are going to do it and there is nothing you can do about it – NOT TRUE. The majority of those who take their own lives are ambivalent about doing so until the end. Most people who complete suicide do not want to die they just want to end their pain.

You can get a good idea how serious someone is about a suicide attempt by looking at the method used – NOT TRUE. Most people have little awareness of the lethality of what they are doing. The seriousness of the attempt is not necessarily related to the seriousness of the intent.

If someone has a history of making cries for help then they won't do it for real - NOT TRUE. The group of people at highest risk for suicide is those who have attempted it in the previous year.

Only the clinically depressed make serious suicide attempts - NOT TRUE People are also at risk suffering from other forms of psychiatric illness and emotional distress.

Those with personality disorders attempt suicide to manipulate others - a commonly held belief. Many a patient is alienated and an ideal opportunity for therapeutic intervention missed because of the reception they receive in some emergency departments.

If someone is going to commit suicide they will not tell anyone of their intentions and prepare well in advance - NOT TRUE. Many suicides are completed on impulse.

Talking about suicide encourages it - NOT TRUE. Raising the issue of suicide with those who are depressed or distressed may open the door to therapeutic intervention.

Suicide can be a blessed relief no just for the individual but those surrounding him or her - NOT TRUE. Bereavement by suicide is a very heavy cross to bear; those bereaved by suicide have special needs and need support. Bereavement by suicide is itself a risk factor for suicide.

Mr. Presentable

Nah, it should be swept under the carpet along with sexual abuse and child abuse.

dlofnep

I know alot of people who have committed suicide. It should certainly be discussed. I can only imagine the pain someone must be in to want to end their life.

Rabies

In the open.
How else are people supposed to help those that need it and notice the signs.

bada_bing

nipplenuts wrote: »

Nah, it should be swept under the carpet along with sexual abuse and child abuse.

and so we have a vicious circle that continues because of attitudes like that. i can't beleive you think child and sexual abuse should be swept under the carpet. Are you a member of the catholic church or what??

El Siglo

Good thread, you'll provoke a lot of discussion.

El Siglo

bada_bing wrote: »

and so we have a vicious circle that continues because of attitudes like that. i can't beleive you think child and sexual abuse should be swept under the carpet. Are you a member of the catholic church or what??

No it's sarcasm, nobody could be that cruel...

Rabies

bada_bing wrote: »

and so we have a vicious circle that continues because of attitudes like that. i can't beleive you think child and sexual abuse should be swept under the carpet. Are you a member of the catholic church or what??

That wasn't the aim of their statement. I think he really meant its best to bring it out in the open

Elessar

Of course. But when it is, in my experience, there is no shortage of people (particularly middle-aged generation) that laugh out loud when they hear of someone killing themselves. They are laughing at that person's failure. It's disgusting.

AnonoBoy

bada_bing wrote: »

and so we have a vicious circle that continues because of attitudes like that. i can't beleive you think child and sexual abuse should be swept under the carpet. Are you a member of the catholic church or what??

I think you misread his comment. He meant it sarcastically, meaning that in Ireland things like this have always been swept under the carpet.

Of course nobody believes that they should be (except the Church) so the poster was really saying that he thinks it should be discussed in the open.

Euro_Kraut

Elessar wrote: »

Of course. But when it is, in my experience, there is no shortage of people (particularly middle-aged generation) that laugh out loud when they hear of someone killing themselves. They are laughing at that person's failure. It's disgusting.

I have never witnessed that.

Rabies

Elessar wrote: »

Of course. But when it is, in my experience, there is no shortage of people (particularly middle-aged generation) that laugh out loud when they hear of someone killing themselves. They are laughing at that person's failure. It's disgusting.

Its their reaction to something that doesn't effect them or their family/friends personally.
The won't be true it was on their door step.

Human nature to laugh and look down at other people's misfortunes and downfalls.

Pighead

Rabies wrote: »

Human nature to laugh and look down at other people's misfortunes and downfalls.

Pighead believes that the official term for the above is "Muntzism"

My name is URL

This country is still backwards when it comes to matters of mental-health.

The stigma attached to suicide etc is our problem, not just the media's.

Look at all the press that road deaths receive and how people talk about prevention so much.. suicide is even more preventable than that, and it rarely gets discussed

Capt'n Midnight

Here we go again


It's a permenant solution to a termporary problem.

Many people who survive suicide attempts regret trying it.

Like the guy I saw getting his tomach pumped in Blanch after taking a load of pills while drunk.

Daroxtar

Maybe if people were fully convinced that there was no God and no afterlife they wouldn't be as ready to kill themselves. It's possible that a lot of people think that if they commit suicide then what comes next will be better but if nothing comes next then their death is final in a way that only death can be and suicide has only ended their life,not given them a new pain free one. Would there be as many suicide bombers if there was no promise of a horde of virgins and the glories of heaven?

Snakeblood

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I have never witnessed that.

I've seen that reaction (not to the extent of laughter), but some people take suicide as weakness, or cowardice, and talk about it as such. They don't seem to have any empathy for the people who feel that they have no other option.

Thomas_S_Hunterson

When I heard and saw the 'skirt-around-the-edges' reporting this morning, I instantly thought overdose.

Having things off limits for discussion is a silly idea as it leads to people drawing incorrect conclusions.

blinding

I wonder is it because victims of suicide are very often young men.

Our society is not really interested in the problems of young men.(or men for that matter) Men are expected to deal with their problems and get on with it.

If for whatever reason a man is not able to deal with his problems where is he to turn. Over a period of time and desperation I can understand the journey to where suicide is an option.

tomcollins97

dlofnep wrote: »

I know alot of people who have committed suicide. It should certainly be discussed. I can only imagine the pain someone must be in to want to end their life.

"A lot" - numbers please. To me this statement is like "I know a lot of disabled/homosexual/dying etc etc people"

Snakeblood

Sean_K wrote: »

When I heard and saw the 'skirt-around-the-edges' reporting this morning, I instantly thought overdose.

Having things off limits for discussion is a silly idea as it leads to people drawing incorrect conclusions.

Same here.

If they said he was found hanged, and then had people commenting, like the Samaritans, it might help people who are in similar straits get the help they need. Sweeping suicide under the carpet isn't the way to go.

AckwelFoley

Some circles of the media portrayed Daz as over confident and cocky.

With a few brief comments over and back i had with the chap onlne i found the guy to be rather humble. I really really have a sickening feeling inside me over this one, because i was paying partivular attention to his boxing carrear, and i was certain that it was only a matter of time before he was a world champion.

I do know how the guy felt, i know the torture, all i can say is i hope you rest well Daz. RIP

My name is URL

tomcollins97 wrote: »

"A lot" - numbers please. To me this statement is like "I know a lot of disabled/homosexual/dying etc etc people"

That's a little insensitive. He's not drawing up a thesis ffs.

Snakeblood

blinding wrote: »

I wonder is it because victims of suicide are very often young men.

Our society is not really interested in the problems of young men.(or men for that matter) Men are expected to deal with their problems and get on with it.

If for whatever reason a man is not able to deal with his problems where is he to turn. Over a period of time and desperation I can understand the journey to where suicide is an option.

Aware were in town on Saturday, taking donations and building awareness(!) and the Samaritans are there too, if people feel they need someone to talk to about their problems.

I think it's a cultural issue among men that talking about problems is seen as a weakness, and it's best to bull on through. I can't see that not acknowledging the problem of suicide does anything but perpetuate the situation.

Mr. Incognito

I wonder is it because victims of suicide are very often young men.

This is actually a misconception if you read the statistics attached in the OP. While they are a higher proportion it's not by much.

Daroxtar

tomcollins97 wrote: »

"A lot" - numbers please. To me this statement is like "I know a lot of disabled/homosexual/dying etc etc people"

Why quantify? I can think of more than 20 in a few mile radius of where i'm from. Any more than zero is too much, so a lot is a lot, end of.

ejmaztec

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I have never witnessed that.

There was a case around these parts a few years ago, where some middle-aged guy killed himself, leaving a widow and two sons. At the cemetery, the two sons turned the air blue, hurling abuse at their late father's grave, and accusing him of chickening out and abandoning them and their mother.

The other mourners didn't know what the hell to say or do.

IvyTheTerrible

ejmaztec wrote: »

There was a case around these parts a few years ago, where some middle-aged guy killed himself, leaving a widow and two sons. At the cemetery, the two sons turned the air blue, hurling abuse at their late father's grave, and accusing him of chickening out and abandoning them and their mother.

The other mourners didn't know what the hell to say or do.

God. They say anger is part of the grieving process, particularly for suicides. Thankfully no-one went mad at my brothers funeral though.

faceman

In Ireland each year, more people commit suicide than are killed on the roads yet the focus is more on road safety.

Red Sleeping Beauty

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

I had been writing an article on suicide and then Darren Sutherland was found dead in his apartment, the English media are reporting he hung himself. I'm reproducing the article here. I was unsure whether to post in Humanities or not but AH gives a wide spectrum of opinion so if the mods here want to move it feel free.

Not on boards it'd seem anyway. A thread posted here about Sutherland was closed and people were directed to a thread in the Boxing forum and that is a "thread for condolences" with "RIP" posts and people getting upset if there's any discussion about the circumstances surrounding the death.

panda100

Suicide should definately be discussed openly in my opinion.

I have been to two funerals of friends who we all know committed suicide but it was never really talked about or discussed. People need to speak about their feelings more, particularly Irish men. We have to start really questioning why so many young people despair at life that they see death as a better option?

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Sucide can be very rational. Just not to anybody on the outside. Saying it is irrational is not right.

Mr. Presentable

bada_bing wrote: »

and so we have a vicious circle that continues because of attitudes like that. i can't beleive you think child and sexual abuse should be swept under the carpet. Are you a member of the catholic church or what??

The post was intended sarcastically. Obviously the best way to heal and deal with serious social issues is to confront and discuss them. Thanks for understanding

Theta

I was reading on the BBC news yesterday that 28 people killed themselves this year while working for France Telecom. When the company asked why it was so high. They simply said it was statistical a normal figure for a company of that size.

Jaysus.

IvyTheTerrible

irlmarc wrote: »

I was reading on the BBC news yesterday that 28 people killed themselves this year while working for France Telecom. When the company asked why it was so high. They simply said it was statistical a normal figure for a company of that size.

Jaysus.

The shocking thing about that is that the last suicide at France Telecom was a guy who slit his own throat in the office in front of his colleagues.

That gives me the impression that there is more to that group of suicides that someone being so depressed that they hang themselves in their own home.

irish_bob

Daroxtar wrote: »

Maybe if people were fully convinced that there was no God and no afterlife they wouldn't be as ready to kill themselves. It's possible that a lot of people think that if they commit suicide then what comes next will be better but if nothing comes next then their death is final in a way that only death can be and suicide has only ended their life,not given them a new pain free one. Would there be as many suicide bombers if there was no promise of a horde of virgins and the glories of heaven?

you have it back to front , its a strong belief in god that traditionally has prevented people from commiting suicide , fear of punishement etc which is why suicide rates are higher in more secular countries

btw , i believe commiting suicide is the bravest thing anyone can do , to make the ultimate descision , to take a step into the complete unknown , the biggest false cliche out there is that sucide is a cowards way out , the saying has become popular due to the churches creation of the term as a means of detering people , i.e . i wont do it because i will be branded a coward , properly anylised , how could anyone possibly conclude that it was a cowardly act

The_Kew_Tour

I have known few people my age 23-30 yo) who have passed on there life. One person was close friend.

I find it so sad.

But one thing I hate is when people say that these people are selfish. How can person say that. Some people find this world a lonely maybe heartbreaking place to live in.

The taughts for people to take there own life must be unimaginable.

I can understand to point the love ones that they have left behind can feel angry and so on. But I think we need to understand that people may not see light at end of tunnel or may never feel they will.

Its just a taught

wantacookie

i am curious as to why the media feel the need to always cover it up, i heard on the news today that a man was found dead in his appartmant alone but they 'aren't treatin it as suspcious'.
i took this to mean one of two things suicide or natural causes, but i doubt the media would have any reservations against sayin natural causes.

the stigma around suuicide effects people contemplating it but also the families who have been affected by it, they feel that there is no one to talk to and that they are looked down upon by the community!

another question i wonder is wat age is too young to broach the subject with children? especially if it has occured in the family. is it better to cover up wat has happen to protect them?

this is a really interestin thread

Snakeblood

irish_bob wrote: »

you have it back to front , its a strong belief in god that traditionally has prevented people from commiting suicide , fear of punishement etc which is why suicide rates are higher in more secular countries

btw , i believe commiting suicide is the bravest thing anyone can do , to make the ultimate descision , to take a step into the complete unknown , the biggest false cliche out there is that sucide is a cowards way out , the saying has become popular due to the churches creation of the term as a means of detering people , i.e . i wont do it because i will be branded a coward , properly anylised , how could anyone possibly conclude that it was a cowardly act

I don't think it's a brave or a cowardly thing, it depends on why people do it. You get kids who don't understand the concept of mortality doing it, you get people who don't see any way out of their situation, and you get people who want to do it to show that they have power over themselves at the last.

Euro_Kraut

faceman wrote: »

In Ireland each year, more people commit suicide than are killed on the roads yet the focus is more on road safety.

I often wonder too if the figures are further masked. Its possible that some of these one vehicle collisions are in fact suicides. Unfortunatly, it impossible to prove unless the person has left a explict suicide note. Even if they did it is unlikely the death would be recored as suicide.

IvyTheTerrible

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

I often wonder too if the figures are further masked. Its possible that some of these one vehicle collisions are in fact suicides. Unfortunatly, it impossible to prove unless the person has left a explict suicide note. Even if they did it is unlikely the death would be recored as suicide.

I think there is still a LOT of covering up. I heard a woman from a suicide awareness group on the radio a month ago who said that there are counties in Ireland where the coroner did not return a single verdict of suicide for the whole of last year. Which is very hard to believe.

Daroxtar

Irish bob, I cant see any bravery in it, only despair and insanity. Bravery to me and to most would mean digging deeper and soldiering on. And i dont mean Insanity in a flippant way, i mean insanity in a crushing, all-encompassing, unable to think beyond a certain point kind of way.

And while the fear of god may be seen as a deterrent, surely the prospect of absolute nothingness would be a bigger one?

abouttobebanned

These are my observations about suicide.

First off, people say that it's the cowardly way out. In many ways they're right, it takes an enoormous amount of character to stand up and face your problems. However, I don't think the balls that it takes to actually end your life should be ignored.

Suicide happens because someone can't see a way out of their problems. And inevitably people always say, why didn't he just come and talk to me. In most cases what would happen if they came and talked to someone...that someone would probably blow up in his/her face with rage and lectures etc. Sometimes it just takes the threat of suicide for someone to be more understanding.

I think the only way we can stop the increasing amount of suicides that are happening to our young people is to promote more open and understanding relationships. People will always look for an easier way out if the altervative is that bad.

There is a good chance that there is someone in your life now who is suffering (possibly due to money problems in this current climate), it might be a good idea to monitor their behaviour...are they keeping themselves to themselves a lot? Being overly quiet when they used to be outgoing?

Another thing...aggresive banks and companies demanding money from people should be monitored by the government. Okay, companies and institutions need to get paid, but aggresive tactics can leave people thinking they have no hope, and no way out. Except one...

Discussed openly, i lost a very good friend 3 years ago but at the same time people dont want to talk about it.

DamoDLK

Suicide, needs to be openly discussed, Ireland is still somewhat backward when it comes to issues of mental health, it seems its only in the recent past that the topic is surfacing in public.

ejmaztec

Snakeblood wrote: »

I don't think it's a brave or a cowardly thing, it depends on why people do it. You get kids who don't understand the concept of mortality doing it, you get people who don't see any way out of their situation, and you get people who want to do it to show that they have power over themselves at the last.

And also, the same "religious" people, having gone beyond desperation, won't have the same confidence in their "god", for allowing them to get into that mental state, and worrying about divine retribution won't come into it.

me-skywalker

I honestly dont think you can believe that person who committs to suicide is really thinking about what comes next. I think its definitely more a case of how they are dealing with and coping with whats happening in their life at this moment.

As for the Churhc aspect, people in a vulnerable state of mind can be persuaded and led by priests and ministers into a religious state of mind to help their problems. Which I agree can aid them but if lack of faith in religion was the problem then we would all be religious zealots.

Insect Overlord

Over the past year I took the time to partake in the Gatekeeper suicide awareness and prevention course and the ASIST suicide intervention skills training course. While I've been lucky to have not yet been in a situation where these skills were required, the lessons I learned from the courses are extraordinarily valuable.

There has been at least one suicide in my family's past, and that happened some years before I was born, but the ripple effects of that man's decision are still felt accutely 25 years on. I was only told the truth of how he died when I was 17, after years of believing the uncle I never met died in an accident. I'm still coming to terms with the implications of it, so I can't imagine how it must have felt for those who really knew him.

Increasing awareness of suicide and how it can be prevented can only be a good thing. The sad thing is, it always seems to take a high profile tragedy before people take any notice.

mudokon

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

This is actually a misconception if you read the statistics attached in the OP. While they are a higher proportion it's not by much.

Judging by the IAS statistics from the OP this isnt a misconception, male suicides accounted for 78.9% & female suicides for 21.1% of the period from 1980-2007.

Suicide should definitely be discussed more openly so the taboo can be broken.

pisslips

Well, I think it's time we admit that it is someone's choice to commit suicide and whether one feels they have a responsibility to others or not is irrelevant, it is their life to do with as they please.

I am alive today because I choose to be, not because I am obliged to be.

It may be a cancer on society but the society needs to change not by demonising the act or condemning the perpectrators but by looking at the causes.

For me and this is just a guess, the de-humanising of people is a major factor. In order to be competitive and earn a living have self-worth and be respected in modern society you need to fit a certain type of character. You need to be intellegent and often willing to do focussed non-socialable work. Years ago, you had coopers and blacksmiths, farmers and milkmen.
Today you have factories and the farms have to be huge and mechanised with the farmer working 12 hours a day.

So that todays worker never gets time to chat with the other local people in his community. Nor does he take pride in his work or see the fruits of his labour. He just maintains a machine or lets a calf die because the vet costs more than the life of the animal or maybe he drives a lorry to europe or programmes a computer or look at sales figures he pretends to care about or answers the phone and take abuse. But the worst thing of all is he doesn't know the people he works with or the neighbours he lives beside.From now on all his relationships will be based on how much he is worth to the other person and they will all be short term.

Human beings are communal animals but yet when we reach adulthood all that is taken away.We're expected to fill a role for people we'll never meet, doing things we'll never see.

There is a place for every type of person in a small community or a village. But what do you do these days if your not very smart and/or you look like a melted welly, there's no place for you, nobody cares, your of no USE to anybody.Nobody remebers your name, people don't even see you.

the_syco

You say in the article...

there are more deaths in Ireland from suicide than fatalities on the road

...but you must wonder how many road deaths are suicides? Long straight road, and thtey hit a wall/tree/etc far from the road, killing the single person inside?

It's generally impulsive

That sounds odd.

Daroxtar wrote: »

It's possible that a lot of people think that if they commit suicide then what comes next will be better

Many end their life to get to the end of it, as they see no other way.

blinding wrote: »

I wonder is it because victims of suicide are very often young men.

I'm unsure if it's a myth or not, but women are ofter meant to do it in a place where they can be found before it's too late, as a cry for help. Usually men are not found until after they're dead, or sometimes never.

irish_bob wrote: »

fear of punishement etc which is why suicide rates are higher in more secular countries

It doesn't help if the country doesn't keep a record of suicides.

irish_bob wrote: »

to make the ultimate descision , to take a step into the complete unknown

It's a selfish way out. You leave beind nothing but sorrow. The brave seek help.

IvyTheTerrible wrote: »

I heard a woman from a suicide awareness group on the radio a month ago who said that there are counties in Ireland where the coroner did not return a single verdict of suicide for the whole of last year. Which is very hard to believe.

Sometimes this is done on the request of a family. I have no doubt that this was often the case in years past, when there was a stigma attached to it.

=-=

I have sort of witnessed a suicide. Well, I only heard the blare of the darts horn, and say the dudes arm comng out from under the train. Seems he stepped out in fromt of the dart at the last minute. A bag, probably containing his belongings, were nearby. I've heard that some people write letters of apology to the train drivers.