Small appetite, high metabolism

A_SN

I'm considering going back to the gym (I've been working out on and off for 4 years, never more than one contiguous year, stopped 2 years ago), but I find it a bit pointless to do it before knowing how this time I'm actually going to gain weight. Here's the problem : I'm 23, 185 cm tall (6'1"), about 55 kg, and have always been, my weight is dead stable, no matter whether I stuff my mouth and drink milky shakes with weight gaining carbo-protein-thingies or skip lunch every day of the week, it doesn't change. If I work out for a few months then I can reach 59 kg, and nothing I tried will make it go higher.

I have a small appetite, currently I only eat a breakfast a day (half liter of milk with chocolate cereals) and a lunch (usually one of those microwavable Tesco meal things) and that's about it, I'm not hungry for more. I'm also the slowest eater, taking 2 hours to eat an 8 oz steak is no uncommon occurrence to me, and even if I try I really can't keep up in pace with anyone else. Always been like this by the way. I was told that I must have a high metabolism because even though I would eat in similar quantities as anyone else I'd still remain very slim and apparently devoid of any fat, but on the other hand no one with my diet would really become chubby, I suppose. So yeah, little point for me to do again what I've tried before because it'll yield the same results (which are still appreciably bigger muscles, but still nothing to boast about) and definitely level off after just a few months.

So the key to the problem seems to be something about my small appetite or high metabolism. Do any of you know of any way to change that (increase appetite, or decrease metabolism?) in a feasible way? (I was told to just stuff my mouth all the time and put butter on everything but who would do that, mostly if they are easily satiated?)

Mellor

The reason you don't put on weight is down to your diet. I probably won't be easy for you, but its obviously possible.

Read the stickies, especialy the part on daily calories.

Building muscle requires excess calories, and a good amount of protein in your diet.
Combine this with your workout and you'll see improvements,

Read the stickies

A_SN

Mellor wrote: »

The reason you don't put on weight is down to your diet. I probably won't be easy for you, but its obviously possible.

Read the stickies, especialy the part on daily calories.

Building muscle requires excess calories, and a good amount of protein in your diet.
Combine this with your workout and you'll see improvements,

Read the stickies

Right, but like I said, I have quite an uncommon appetite, that seems like an unusual obstacle in the way that should be directly addressed, doesn't it?

Mellor

I fail to see how its an obstacle to be honest. Especially compare to the opposite.
You have to eat more, thats all there is to it. Even if that means eating when you are not hungry, Aim to eat 6 small meals every day. You are quite light at 55kg, so maintenance calories isn't going to be a huge amount of food. A small bit of will power is all it will take.

Post up a typical day.

A_SN

Mellor wrote: »

I fail to see how its an obstacle to be honest. Especially compare to the opposite.
You have to eat more, thats all there is to it. Even if that means eating when you are not hungry, Aim to eat 6 small meals every day. You are quite light at 55kg, so maintenance calories isn't going to be a huge amount of food. A small bit of will power is all it will take.

Post up a typical day.

You fail to see how having a small appetite and taking two hours to eat the least meal is an obstacle to eating more? Really? :pac: You REALLY don't think that this is something that should be somehow addressed? I mean, not being very hungry and eating very slowly can't help me!

A typical day : breakfast with half a litre of milk and chocolate cereals soon after getting up, then at some point in the day eating one of those microwave meals, or Pot Noodles (I can easily take 3 hours to eat those, I kid you not, rice/pasta/noodles are the longest thing for me to eat, salads or anything containing bread and/or salad is the fastest, almost as fast as a regular person), that type of stuff. Oh and between a few hours after breakfast and before "lunch" I eat some cookies or crisps. You'd think I should eat my lunch earlier but I can hardly work when I'm satiated, clouds my mind, gets in the way of my brain intensive work. Of course as of now I'm not even trying to gain weight, my typical day is only representative of how much I find sufficient to eat in a day. Of course you're right about the small amount of maintenance calories I need, but I'm afraid the threshold for me to start gaining weight is higher than the highest intake I've ever tried.. Not like I've tried eating 6 meals a day though, that's something to try!

Good thing about your suggestion is if I ate small meals it probably wouldn't "cloud my mind" too much. I wouldn't mind advice on the appetite/eating speed issue though, I mean, if I'm gonna make myself eat 6 meals a day I'd rather have it not take over half of my waking time :rolleyes:

Mellor

A_SN wrote: »

You fail to see how having a small appetite and taking two hours to eat the least meal is an obstacle to eating more? Really? :pac: You REALLY don't think that this is something that should be somehow addressed? I mean, not being very hungry and eating very slowly can't help me!

Its obvious not going to be a aid. And its in no way ideal. I didn't mean to come across like it wasn't an issue at all. I meant that it wasn't an impossible obstacle and I was just trying to illustrate that its in your hands. Its down to you and your willpower.
If you start putting in some proper sessions in the gym you will be hungry afterwards. It also about eatign the right kind of food.

A typical day : breakfast with half a litre of milk and chocolate cereals soon after getting up, then at some point in the day eating one of those microwave meals, or Pot Noodles (I can easily take 3 hours to eat those, I kid you not, rice/pasta/noodles are the longest thing for me to eat, salads or anything containing bread and/or salad is the fastest, almost as fast as a regular person), that type of stuff. Oh and between a few hours after breakfast and before "lunch" I eat some cookies or crisps

Well, the foods aren't exactly ideal. In fact, they would be what most people consider some the worst.

If you have problems eating large quantities, then the best idea is to make sure you get enough calories from as little as possible. Eating calorie dense food, while still eating the right kind of food. You are gettign little or no protein there and this is key to building muscle.

Chocolate cereals are generally going to be full of sugar, oats, musili is going to be much better. (i'd say 90% of the regs here eat oats for breakfast a few days a week). Eggs are a good choice too.
Microwave foods are great, pot noodles aren't either. Over processed foods are generally crap. Cookies, crisps aren't ideal snacks either.

Suggestions;
Breakfast
Oats/porridge with a spoon of peanut butter or honey. An egg
eggs are a good source of protein, and peanut butter honey is a good way to bump up the calories

Snack
Nuts and an apple
Nuts are a great way to top up your daily calories. For a relatively small amount, they contain a lot of calories (100g is 500-800 cals i think), I imagine they should be ideal in helping you get above maintenance calories.

Lunch
Chicken salad, chicken wrap etc (not southern/deep fried chicken)

Snack as above

Dinner
Chicken/fish/same as lunch etc

Snack as above

Good thing about your suggestion is if I ate small meals it probably wouldn't "cloud my mind" too much. I wouldn't mind advice on the appetite/eating speed issue though, I mean, if I'm gonna make myself eat 6 meals a day I'd rather have it not take over half of my waking time :rolleyes:

Its a bit of an assumption, but I imagine you could at 6 small meals quicker than 3 large ones (the hardest part is finishing it off right?). The above is a good starting place imo, a lot of people would kill to be in your position. It's all about the right foods. Luckily, the foods you find the slowest (rice/pasta etc) are the ones that most people will tell you aren't great to begin with.
I've no direct experience of eating a calorie surplus, but plenty here do, i'm sure they'll be along soon with more specific advice relating to diet and findign it hard to gain weight

corkcomp

A_SN wrote: »

You fail to see how having a small appetite and taking two hours to eat the least meal is an obstacle to eating more? Really? :pac: You REALLY don't think that this is something that should be somehow addressed? I mean, not being very hungry and eating very slowly can't help me!

A typical day : breakfast with half a litre of milk and chocolate cereals soon after getting up, then at some point in the day eating one of those microwave meals, or Pot Noodles (I can easily take 3 hours to eat those, I kid you not, rice/pasta/noodles are the longest thing for me to eat, salads or anything containing bread and/or salad is the fastest, almost as fast as a regular person), that type of stuff. Oh and between a few hours after breakfast and before "lunch" I eat some cookies or crisps. You'd think I should eat my lunch earlier but I can hardly work when I'm satiated, clouds my mind, gets in the way of my brain intensive work. Of course as of now I'm not even trying to gain weight, my typical day is only representative of how much I find sufficient to eat in a day. Of course you're right about the small amount of maintenance calories I need, but I'm afraid the threshold for me to start gaining weight is higher than the highest intake I've ever tried.. Not like I've tried eating 6 meals a day though, that's something to try!

Good thing about your suggestion is if I ate small meals it probably wouldn't "cloud my mind" too much. I wouldn't mind advice on the appetite/eating speed issue though, I mean, if I'm gonna make myself eat 6 meals a day I'd rather have it not take over half of my waking time :rolleyes:

in fairness OP this is a fitness forum not a fix it all forum!! We can advise on the types of food to eat and the frequency along with training etc but what advice can anyone give regarding you taking two hours to eat a meal? If it takes you up to three hours to eat a pot noodle then you know what you need to do (i.e. trip to doctor ASAP)

A_SN

Well thanks for the help people! A couple of days ago I tried to eat as much as I could in a day, I got to about 2500 kcal. If I'm not mistaken I need closer to 3000 kcal a day to gain weight. I really couldn't eat any more than I did, but my diet is far from fully optimised (for example I'd drink low fat milk instead of regular milk, there's a significant difference in calories there). I still eat crisps and cookies because actually I've been looking for things for snacks with more calories but it's hard to find. I tried cashew nuts and energy bars but I'll never down those things as wilfully as I eat cookies. I'm still looking and trying new things though.

This being said, I'd need a good high calorie drink. I looked around Tesco but couldn't really find anything better than milk. I know that there are things in pharmacies that can do, but I heard they're very expensive! So what's a good budget calorie drink?

corkcomp

A_SN wrote: »

Well thanks for the help people! A couple of days ago I tried to eat as much as I could in a day, I got to about 2500 kcal. If I'm not mistaken I need closer to 3000 kcal a day to gain weight. I really couldn't eat any more than I did, but my diet is far from fully optimised (for example I'd drink low fat milk instead of regular milk, there's a significant difference in calories there). I still eat crisps and cookies because actually I've been looking for things for snacks with more calories but it's hard to find. I tried cashew nuts and energy bars but I'll never down those things as wilfully as I eat cookies. I'm still looking and trying new things though.

This being said, I'd need a good high calorie drink. I looked around Tesco but couldn't really find anything better than milk. I know that there are things in pharmacies that can do, but I heard they're very expensive! So what's a good budget calorie drink?

what exactly is stopping you from eating more? is it that you just dont feel hungry so dont bother? or is it that you physically cant cram in any more food? I still stick by my last post, you should see a doctor just to rule out any medical condition.

Sofiztikated

I guess I'd be something similar to the OP. Been 50kg since I was 16, at my heaviest, 57kg. Normal day would consist of one meal, with a bit of snacking.

Even if I am hungry, I'm slow to actually sit down to something to eat, not through dislike of food, although I am very picky, its more out of laziness. And if I do, I tend to not finish, as I'll get bored with the taste.

I need to get into a routine of eating, and working out as I want to put on weight, as I am very skinny.

beegirl

A_SN wrote: »

You fail to see how having a small appetite and taking two hours to eat the least meal is an obstacle to eating more? Really? :pac: You REALLY don't think that this is something that should be somehow addressed? I mean, not being very hungry and eating very slowly can't help me!

Do you think it could be a psychological thing i.e. a mental block about eating? If so, as others said, it should be addressed by a doctor.

If not, then it's quite simple really - you need to address it yourself!!! If you want to get bigger, eat more - if you can't get over this issue of not being able to eat enough then you will stay the same size. No magic fix, just basic maths!

token

I'd echo the psychological thing by the sounds of it. Sound's like you are scared of putting on fat. I've a small appetite also but appetite like anything else is trainable. You should treat increasing the amount of food you eat just as important as increasing the weight you lift in the gym. You should gradually increase your food each day to acclimatise yourself to the extra food. Don't jump from your current eating habits and try add 1000-2000 calories in one day.

Last winter I put on 6kg following starting strength and drinking about 3L's of full fat milk (drop the low fat) a day untop of increased food intake also. I'm planning on doing the same thing this winter and am hoping to put on another 5kg. I've started increasing my food intake gradually over the course of this week and hope to be in full swing coming into next week. If you are progressively lifting heavier weights on the big compound movements, squat deadlift & bench at the gym you will not turn into a lardass don't worry.

token

I just made a sample layout that I hope to follow from next week.

8:30
Breakfast
6 scrambled eggs
Piece of fruit
500ml milk

11:30
50g beef/turkey
Some almonds/brazilnuts
500ml milk

1:00 Lunch
large salad with chicken
500ml milk
Piece of fruit

4:00
50g beef/turkey
Some almonds/brazilnuts
500ml milk

Post training
1L of milk

8:00 Dinner
Steak cooked with plenty of olive oil
plenty of veg
More milk if I can stomach it

Now this will be hard work because this is a boat load more food than I would eat by nature but it has to be done if I want to gain weight. I may even need to increase it further.

bigstar

A_SN wrote: »

I'm considering going back to the gym (I've been working out on and off for 4 years, never more than one contiguous year, stopped 2 years ago), but I find it a bit pointless to do it before knowing how this time I'm actually going to gain weight. Here's the problem : I'm 23, 185 cm tall (6'1"), about 55 kg, and have always been, my weight is dead stable, no matter whether I stuff my mouth and drink milky shakes with weight gaining carbo-protein-thingies or skip lunch every day of the week, it doesn't change. If I work out for a few months then I can reach 59 kg, and nothing I tried will make it go higher.

I have a small appetite, currently I only eat a breakfast a day (half liter of milk with chocolate cereals) and a lunch (usually one of those microwavable Tesco meal things) and that's about it, I'm not hungry for more. I'm also the slowest eater, taking 2 hours to eat an 8 oz steak is no uncommon occurrence to me, and even if I try I really can't keep up in pace with anyone else. Always been like this by the way. I was told that I must have a high metabolism because even though I would eat in similar quantities as anyone else I'd still remain very slim and apparently devoid of any fat, but on the other hand no one with my diet would really become chubby, I suppose. So yeah, little point for me to do again what I've tried before because it'll yield the same results (which are still appreciably bigger muscles, but still nothing to boast about) and definitely level off after just a few months.

So the key to the problem seems to be something about my small appetite or high metabolism. Do any of you know of any way to change that (increase appetite, or decrease metabolism?) in a feasible way? (I was told to just stuff my mouth all the time and put butter on everything but who would do that, mostly if they are easily satiated?)

ok id first listen to a lot of the advice here because its fairly good. make sure its not some thing medical first. i have a similar issue, not nearly as extreme though. the first thing is to eat more often; aim for 6 meals, eating every 2-3 hours or so. dont try and fill yourself just eat regularly, ive found this help with the appetite and in time you should be able for bigger portions and youll find yourself hungrier more often.

tbh the only way to really increase your appetite is to eat more and more. but if your eating 6 meals with only 400-500 cals that will help you get more cals than two meals where you try stuff yourself. even starting off with really small meals and steadily increasing will make a difference. dont worry about getting 3000 cals, you dont need it yet. you only need 500 more a day than your eating now, if you can get more, do, but dont worry too much. aim for foods that are high in cals like said above. milk is great, so is peanut butter. ive found pasta great but if you cant stand it find something else. i know everyone here says to eat healthily, but if you can get healthy food most of the time, a few takeaways a week wont hurt (or more than a few ) a big mac meal has about 1300 cals and isnt very filling but you may not be able for it, i wasnt before. hope that helps.

podge57

lots of people who want to gain weight eat when theyre not hungry, its not a big deal - just do it

A_SN

corkcomp wrote: »

what exactly is stopping you from eating more? is it that you just dont feel hungry so dont bother? or is it that you physically cant cram in any more food? I still stick by my last post, you should see a doctor just to rule out any medical condition.

More like the second one. Well in the day in question, I had just ate that meal, and I was feeling alright so I thought I'd cram in that extra meal, and when I was done with it I was just really full. You know, that's probably how you'll feel if you eat one more meal than you usually do. This being said, perhaps my mistake was to eat a meal right after another. No one here advised me to fill myself up all at once until nothing goes down...

And I really don't see why you guys insist on me seeing a doctor. Those 2500 kcal of food I ate/drank that day were more than 95% of people eat in a day. Some have big appetites (I just saw on TV some dude who had the hugest appetite, he was about to try to eat a 22" hamburger that's got like 30,000 kcal in it), and some have smaller appetites. I don't see how it can be a condition in my case since I can eat more than any healthy person can need to eat, it's just that it's not so much more. It's not a condition, it's a characteristic. A characteristic + doing it kinda wrong.

Sofiztikated wrote: »

I guess I'd be something similar to the OP. Been 50kg since I was 16, at my heaviest, 57kg. Normal day would consist of one meal, with a bit of snacking.

Even if I am hungry, I'm slow to actually sit down to something to eat, not through dislike of food, although I am very picky, its more out of laziness. And if I do, I tend to not finish, as I'll get bored with the taste.

I need to get into a routine of eating, and working out as I want to put on weight, as I am very skinny.

My case isn't as bad as that! Even in my regular lazy days I still get to eat at least 1,900 kcal. I did the maths. Turns out that's no joke when they say breakfast is an important meal. Maybe my original post made it sound worse than it is?

beegirl wrote: »

Do you think it could be a psychological thing i.e. a mental block about eating?

Nope I really don't.

token wrote: »

I'd echo the psychological thing by the sounds of it. Sound's like you are scared of putting on fat.

Hahaha no way man! Actually I'd be glad if I put on some fat, that'd mean my diet works and that I just need to work out! If I was scared of putting on any fat I would have started working out before trying to start a fattening diet.

token wrote: »

I've a small appetite also but appetite like anything else is trainable. You should treat increasing the amount of food you eat just as important as increasing the weight you lift in the gym. You should gradually increase your food each day to acclimatise yourself to the extra food. Don't jump from your current eating habits and try add 1000-2000 calories in one day.

This! Yes, that makes sense, cause in my experiment, I added 500-600 kcal at once. Makes sense that it's all I could do for now! So maybe I should look at it as first training my appetite then having the diet required.

token wrote: »

Last winter I put on 6kg following starting strength and drinking about 3L's of full fat milk (drop the low fat) a day untop of increased food intake also. I'm planning on doing the same thing this winter and am hoping to put on another 5kg. I've started increasing my food intake gradually over the course of this week and hope to be in full swing coming into next week. If you are progressively lifting heavier weights on the big compound movements, squat deadlift & bench at the gym you will not turn into a lardass don't worry.

Whaaaa?? 3 litres of milk a day? I'm really not sure that's healthy man...

As for diet program, that's interesting, I mean, that's effectively pretty spread out throughout the day!

bigstar wrote: »

if your eating 6 meals with only 400-500 cals that will help you get more cals than two meals where you try stuff yourself

Yep, looks like what I gotta do. I'll try a next experiment day with something along those lines. I just need to figure out what to make my small meals out of. With token's plan as an inspiration I guess I can use small 2 oz burgers for some of the "snacks".

bigstar wrote: »

even starting off with really small meals and steadily increasing will make a difference. dont worry about getting 3000 cals, you dont need it yet. you only need 500 more a day than your eating now, if you can get more, do, but dont worry too much. aim for foods that are high in cals like said above. milk is great, so is peanut butter. ive found pasta great but if you cant stand it find something else. i know everyone here says to eat healthily, but if you can get healthy food most of the time, a few takeaways a week wont hurt (or more than a few ) a big mac meal has about 1300 cals and isnt very filling but you may not be able for it, i wasnt before. hope that helps.

Only 500 mores? Well I went to one of those calories things and it seems that given that I'm an "ectomorph" I need to eat even more to gain any weight. Which raises an important question, how do I determine accurately how much is needed in my case? But as you said, this isn't even the most important thing right now, the important thing is finding a suitable eating rhythm that can "scale up".

Mmmh, a big mac meal (I always take the large one, love the fries), it's true that two hours later you're still hungry! I think I'll keep that option for the days I'm not doing too good.

This makes me think, if I take like a 12" sub, shouldn't the better approach for the sake of my appetite be for me to eat the two halves a few hours apart? Just thought about it, cause yesterday I had one of those and ate it all at once. Made me full.

podge57 wrote: »

lots of people who want to gain weight eat when theyre not hungry, its not a big deal - just do it

Yeah, I think the bigger challenge is to start eating like all the time. That's a change in lifestyle and attitude, goes against my food education of eating two meals a day and nothing between those .

token

A_SN wrote: »

Whaaaa?? 3 litres of milk a day? I'm really not sure that's healthy man...

Not overly so but it's not something you are going to do the rest of your life. It is a common method of putting on weight in a short space of time. Google the term GOMAD (Gallon of Milk a Day). 3L's is 2000 calories of carb, protein & fat. Once you get to the weight you want to be you can cut it back significantly or drop it altogether. Which is what I plan to do once I put on this extra 5kg. It is probably the easiest way to get in extra calories. It's calorie dense and drinking is easier than eating.

rubadub

A_SN wrote: »

I really couldn't eat any more than I did, but my diet is far from fully optimised (for example I'd drink low fat milk instead of regular milk, there's a significant difference in calories there).

Why would you drink low fat milk so? There is ~640kcal per litre in whole milk, I could easily drink 2L a day which is an easy 1300kcal a day, this in theory would add approx 2.5lb wieght every week, if it was above maintenance levels.

A_SN wrote: »

I tried cashew nuts and energy bars but I'll never down those things as wilfully as I eat cookies. I'm still looking and trying new things though.

This being said, I'd need a good high calorie drink. I looked around Tesco but couldn't really find anything better than milk. I know that there are things in pharmacies that can do, but I heard they're very expensive!

Peanut butter wholemeal sandwiches washed down with whole milk is calorie city. Those drinks you speak of are probably just overpriced sugar. Museli is calorie dense, I used to eat it out of mixing bowls!, up to 1000kcal at a time.

A_SN wrote: »

Those 2500 kcal of food I ate/drank that day were more than 95% of people eat in a day.

Worldwide perhaps, but in Ireland the average calorie intake is supposed to be 3400kcal, and that is men & women. I could seriously down 2500kcal in 10minutes, I know mates who devour 16" pizzas by themselves with wedges on the side in no time. I see many people sitting down to 1000kcal lunches.

A_SN wrote: »

how do I determine accurately how much is needed in my case?

Just do it empirically, i.e. eat and if you do not put on weight you therefore need more, keeping upping the amounts until you see increases. It would be like saying "how much petrol do I need to drive to cork each day", -just do it and find out. All the rest are estimates.

A_SN wrote: »

This makes me think, if I take like a 12" sub, shouldn't the better approach for the sake of my appetite be for me to eat the two halves a few hours apart? Just thought about it, cause yesterday I had one of those and ate it all at once. Made me full.

If you eat like this it might stretch your stomach so you can eat more. When I lost weight my stomach shrank and I was full far more quickly. Yours may be tiny from undereating, just like those gastric band patients now eat feck all with their tiny stomachs.

A_SN

token wrote: »

Not overly so but it's not something you are going to do the rest of your life. It is a common method of putting on weight in a short space of time. Google the term GOMAD (Gallon of Milk a Day). 3L's is 2000 calories of carb, protein & fat. Once you get to the weight you want to be you can cut it back significantly or drop it altogether. Which is what I plan to do once I put on this extra 5kg. It is probably the easiest way to get in extra calories. It's calorie dense and drinking is easier than eating.

Interesting! Actually while googling I even read about a fad diet of the 1920s consisting in drinking nothing but milk (a gallon a day). Anyway, that's good to know, I was actually considering taking an extra breakfast (milk + cereals) at some point in the day. Those things go down quite easily.

rubadub wrote: »

Why would you drink low fat milk so?

Oh it's just that I never paid attention to it before! Until a week or so ago I had no clue about anything calorie-related.

rubadub wrote: »

Worldwide perhaps, but in Ireland the average calorie intake is supposed to be 3400kcal, and that is men & women.

Well you can tell. People around here have silhouettes of proportions more American than French. Actually after a bit of googling it seems that Irish people eat even a little more than Americans!! Funny thing though is around here no one is "only in America" kind of fat. Like, sideshow fat. Whereas it's very common in America, or at least where I visited.

If you eat like this it might stretch your stomach so you can eat more. When I lost weight my stomach shrank and I was full far more quickly. Yours may be tiny from undereating, just like those gastric band patients now eat feck all with their tiny stomachs.

Yep. Well, looks like I need training then!

corkcomp

dude, your going around in circles, as somebody else pointed out you simply have to eat more, and if you are unable to do this then you will have to address this, either yourself or with medical intervention.

You have already mentioned that it can take three hours to eat a microwave meal or pot noodle and at the risk of repeating myself, this is NOT normal, whether it is physical or pyscological you should see a doctor !

kevpants

6 foot 1 and 55kg!!

And you're saying the milk is unhealthy? I'm 2 inches shorter than you and twice your bodyweight (nearlly)

I was just reading a great interview with Dave Tate before reading this and my god does it ring true:

There was a time at the Old Westside gym where I couldn't gain weight to save my ****ing life.

There was this dude who trained there who could just put on weight like ****ing magic. He'd go from 198 to 308 and then to 275 and back down to 198. And he was never fat. It was amazing.

I finally asked him one day how he did it.

"You mean I never told you the secret to gaining weight? Come outside and I'll fill you in."

Now remember, we're at Westside Barbell. And this guy wants to go outside to talk so no one else can hear. Think about that for a minute. What the hell is he going to tell me? This must be some serious **** if we have to go outside, I thought.

So we get outside and he starts talking.

"For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don't care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that **** down and eat. That's your breakfast."

At this point I'm thinking this guy is nuts. But he's completely serious.

"For lunch you're gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don't want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bull****. I don't care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can't let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter."

"For dinner you're gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don't like sardines, don't put 'em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that ****er up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that **** over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the **** out of it."

"Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that ****er. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals."

This guy is in a zen-like state when he's talking about this.

"Now you're on the clock," he continues. "After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you're full. Don't listen to that ****. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I'm telling you now, you're going to get three or four pieces in and you're gonna want to quit. You ****ing can't quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can't finish it, don't you ever come back to me and tell me you can't gain weight. 'Cause I'm gonna tell you that you don't give a **** about getting bigger and you don't care how much you lift!"

Never mind 6 healthy meals a day. Get yourself an account in Dominos and chow down.

Another mention in the article was that fat people only usually eat two massive meals a day and they eat really fast. After 20 mins of eating apparently your brain says "no more" no matter how little you've eaten. My advice to you would be to start speed eating.

Can't believe people are trying to get a guy whose 6 foot + and 55kgs to make "clean gains" with a healthy diet of lots of little meals.

God man get as much pizza into you as you can.

A_SN

kevpants wrote: »

6 foot 1 and 55kg!!

And you're saying the milk is unhealthy? I'm 2 inches shorter than you and twice your bodyweight (nearlly)

I was just reading a great interview with Dave Tate before reading this and my god does it ring true:



Never mind 6 healthy meals a day. Get yourself an account in Dominos and chow down.

Another mention in the article was that fat people only usually eat two massive meals a day and they eat really fast. After 20 mins of eating apparently your brain says "no more" no matter how little you've eaten. My advice to you would be to start speed eating.

Can't believe people are trying to get a guy whose 6 foot + and 55kgs to make "clean gains" with a healthy diet of lots of little meals.

God man get as much pizza into you as you can.

Haha thanks man that was a really inspirational post! You're totally right about speed eating, cause when you eat a light meal and at the end you're still hungry, just wait for a few minutes and you'll feel satiated.

Although in the defence of the 6 meals a day thing, when I'm done stuffing my face with anything I can for 20 minutes tops then I'm not going to want to eat a damn thing again for hours. Although to be honest I'd rather see myself stuffing my pie-hole for 20 minutes twice a day than spending half of my day preparing and eating light meals . Well I'll have to try both approaches and see what works best. I'll try yours first . Actually I'll try right now with a double meal.

kevpants

A_SN wrote: »

Haha thanks man that was a really inspirational post! You're totally right about speed eating, cause when you eat a light meal and at the end you're still hungry, just wait for a few minutes and you'll feel satiated.

Although in the defence of the 6 meals a day thing, when I'm done stuffing my face with anything I can for 20 minutes tops then I'm not going to want to eat a damn thing again for hours. Although to be honest I'd rather see myself stuffing my pie-hole for 20 minutes twice a day than spending half of my day preparing and eating light meals . Well I'll have to try both approaches and see what works best. I'll try yours first . Actually I'll try right now with a double meal.

Snack boxes are your friend pal. As is the stuffing of the face thing. Eat as many calories per bite as you can. If you only manage 10 mouthfuls before you're feeling stuffed you need to make sure each forkful has as many calories on it as possible.

It mightn't matter about not feeling hungry for hours, if you eat loads of small meals it apparently speeds up your metabolism, or so I'm told. Eating 2 x 2000 calorie meals a day would probably result in a slow metabolism and some weight gain.

God I'm making myself hungry with all this talk.

Brian?

OP, I'm not going to give you anymore advice than has been given already, because its good advice. I just wanted to ask: do you see "being full" as a bad thing? You mention not wanting to eat a 12inch sub in one sitting as you'd be full, but what other reason is there to having a meal? If you want to get bigger you're going to have to eat your fill. Its fairly simple.

Brian?

kevpants wrote: »

Snack boxes are your friend pal.

Snackboxes are my enemy. Too delicious.

A_SN

Oh man, I'm doing this right now and it's not as easy as I would have thought. Not the volume but the speed. I tried eating as fast as I could and after a few minutes I started freaking out, had a feeling that was like a mix of a drowning feeling and a feeling that you're about to puke. Then 12 minutes in I let out a huge burp and then I felt better again. Maybe I should have taken your speed advice a bit less literally .

A_SN

briankeating wrote: »

OP, I'm not going to give you anymore advice than has been given already, because its good advice. I just wanted to ask: do you see "being full" as a bad thing? You mention not wanting to eat a 12inch sub in one sitting as you'd be full, but what other reason is there to having a meal? If you want to get bigger you're going to have to eat your fill. Its fairly simple.

No it's not a bad thing to be full but when I'm full then I'm not going to want to eat anything again for like hours! And that's incompatible with having 6 meals a day.

token

A_SN wrote: »

No it's not a bad thing to be full but when I'm full then I'm not going to want to eat anything again for like hours! And that's incompatible with having 6 meals a day.

podge57 wrote: »

lots of people who want to gain weight eat when theyre not hungry, its not a big deal - just do it

:pac:

I know it sucks, sucks for me too but you just gotta do it. Lifting weights is the easy part.

rubadub

A_SN wrote: »

Oh man, I'm doing this right now and it's not as easy as I would have thought. Not the volume but the speed.

Jaysus, what I wouldn't give to switch bodies with you for a day, I could learn you some real eating! :pac:

I used to go on "chipper crawls" in town with a mate of mine!

BossArky

A_SN - barring medical or other illnesses you just need to eat more. However, I wouldn't recommend basing your diet around McDonalds / the Chinese / the pizzeria.

Add these throughout the day on top of whatever you are currently eating:

• porridge for breakfast
• eggs (scrambled or boiled) for mid morning
• almonds for snacking on
• pasta / rice /spuds
• milk
• lots of fresh veg chopped up in the fridge for pecking on
• orange/apple/banana

If you don't start gaining weight then eat more. Ramp the quantities up from small portions to bigger and bigger amounts.

Use www.fitday.com for estimating calories in and out.

kevpants

rubadub wrote: »

I used to go on "chipper crawls" in town with a mate of mine!

It does my heart good to see a Mod of the Nutrition forum say that.


BossArky do you not think snacking on veg and nuts is a waste of time in this case? I mean the guy has trouble eating, why waste any small inklings of appetite on low cal stuff?

A mate of mine is ALWAYS complaining about not being able to gain weight and had to stop going for walks because he was wasting away. I see him eating big helpings stacked on his plate but his problem is he's a really good cook so it's all fresh fruit and veg based stuff he makes himself and he says he can't stand greasy fast food, he prefers to make his own "healthy versions". If you weighed his total food intake it would probably be the same as mine, but I could floss my teeth with him.

Until he starts eating more sh1te he's always gonna be thin. The OP is gonna be in the same boat.

Eating more means nothing. He could very well eat less and gain more weight. You can't just keep shouting "Eat more!" at him as he nibbles on his 3rd Brazil nut. He can eat what he can before feeling sick. He's said that several times, I think he needs to make sure everything he gets in has the optimum amount of calories.

rubadub

kevpants wrote: »

BossArky do you not think snacking on veg and nuts is a waste of time in this case? I mean the guy has trouble eating, why waste any small inklings of appetite on low cal stuff?

Well some things he listed were quite calorie dense, a lot more than some people might realise. I would swop the porridge for museli, like I said I used to eat massive amounts, it is quite calorie dense and easy to eat lots of. Nuts have more calories per 100g than most junk food, most nuts are 550-600kcal per 100g. Bread is quite calorie dense, may aswell be brown while your at it, if the OP despises it then fair enough, go white. But peanut butter sambos & whole milk is an easy way to get calories in. Peoples portions of bread seem to be bigger than they thing, the burger bun often has more calories than the burger meat. Pasta & noodles are another easy one to overdo. A single pack of supernoodles can be 600kcal.

I have a skinny mate who will devour nuts, but the OP said he doesn't like cashews, so maybe try some others. If my mate had a 100g of nuts as snacks per day thats about 1lb weight gain per week in theory, I have been known to have 500g of cashews with a few pints, 100g is nothing.

Bananas are another calorie dense item, as would be avocados. If drinking anything, make it milk.

Eat before bedtime- sumo wrestlers wolf down food for lunch and have a snooze to pack on weight. There was a thread a while ago with a study on rats and those eating before sleep put on more weight.

Coconut oil is a healthy fat which is loaded with calories, I fry chicken in a good tablespoon of it, I put garlic and chilli in with it, and then to mop up the oil I put in some oat flour at the end. It ends up with a sort of spicy paste all around the bits of chicken, and leaves the pan pretty dry. Coconut oil is quite expensive so I don't want to waste it.

And use real butter and not low fat spreads.

mloc

I used to be 6'1 and about 60kg or so. I was about 20 or so years old at the time, and I realise I had to put on weight as I was far too thin. My apetite wasn't huge either, I'd say slightly below average.

So I took up lifting weights and throwing in a few protein shakes here and there. Nothing really happened; tiny changes in shape, nothing really in size.

A friend turned me on to the fact I really needed to eat more to put on weight, and corrected my technique on a wide range of exercises. After that, back in those days, I would hit 3500-4000 cals a day eating just about anything I could. I'd even do mad things like eat a few sweets between meals to get my insulin to spike and fall again so I'd be hungry enough for the next meal. I trained in mad two hour long sessions four times a week, and I got my weight up to about 80kg.

I've sinced rolled back the training (I wasn't training very intelligently), cleaned up the diet and through hard work maintain at about 78-79kg, in much better shape and the strongest I've ever been.

My point is, even though I'm eating cleaner now, without that initial manic eating for a few months I'd never have put on the weight to get the ball rolling. The long, hard training got me hungry, and I didn't pay much attention to what I ate once there was lots of it and I ate it often.

Brian?

A_SN wrote: »

No it's not a bad thing to be full but when I'm full then I'm not going to want to eat anything again for like hours! And that's incompatible with having 6 meals a day.

You need to stop thinking of the amount of food you're eating and concentrate on eating more calorie dense food then.

beegirl

A_SN wrote: »

I tried eating as fast as I could and after a few minutes I started freaking out, had a feeling that was like a mix of a drowning feeling

Oh yeah, that doesn't sound psychological AT ALL

BossArky

kevpants wrote: »

BossArky do you not think snacking on veg and nuts is a waste of time in this case? I mean the guy has trouble eating, why waste any small inklings of appetite on low cal stuff?

Sorry for the delay - just seen this now.

I'm in favour of teaching the original poster to eat well for his long term good. It is a life-style change. I doubt he is a powerlifter or similar who needs massive amounts of calories to grow/lift. He just needs to eat more to get to a healthy weight.

Sure, he could stuff himself and put on weight rapidly with junk but what good is that going to do? He'll be back here in a year looking to get from 120kg back down to 80kg!

I would hazard a guess that he is just not eating enough. If you eat little then you get used to this. I know 'cos that is what I was like before.

I was checking my records recently. I was 9 stone (54kg) when I was 16... and spent most of the rest of my life sub 70kg up until 2.5 years ago.

I'm now 78kg through eating the kind of stuff I posted up there ^^ in my last post. I'm looking to get 80kg for the first time ever in the few months. My approach may be slower but it is healthier.

//continues munching through 2nd tuna & sweetcorn lunchbox

A_SN

beegirl wrote: »

Oh yeah, that doesn't sound psychological AT ALL

Yeah, cause feeling like you're gonna get sick from force/speed feeding yourself is totally psychological. Maybe you should tour pub bathrooms and tell people it's only psychological if they feel like puking.

Unrelatedly yesterday I ate 2900 kcal. Just eating more at each meal and snacking more works apparently.

hardtrainer

From this thread the following stands out:

OP and others saying they cannot gain weight/ are underweight are essentially saying that they are too lazy to make/eat actual meals. They eat slowly/play with their food and then get bored of the taste and fail to finish the meal.

No doubt there are psychological reasons behind some of this and I do not wish to diminish the role they play. However reading the stickies on nutrition and diet will give all the information OP needs on diet. The rest really is up to the individual person. There is a simple rule that we all know:-
Eat more calories than you use and you will gain weight.

With all due respect to the OP, if you actually had a faster than normal metabolism (or arguably even a normal metabolic rate) there wouldn't be much left of ya at this stage. Given the chronically low calories you actually consume, I'd wager your metabolic rate is well below average now.

Anybody who has tried gaining weight (especially WRT weight training) will tell you that your relationship with food changes. You simply have to eat regularly whether you're hungry or not. It all becomes about getting the calories and protein into your body regularly to support growth. It is in no way easy for all but the very genetically gifted among us.

Shane101

Lack of willpower is what im seeing.

Try some weight gainer. Cyto Gainer 6lb tub is what i was on gained a stone in a month, although i was eating the right foods aswell it isn't a quick fix but it will certainly help. Plenty of protein in it so keep up the gym.

Sorry if somethings like this has already been mentioned roughly browsed through the thread.

All the best OP

A_SN

hardtrainer wrote: »

From this thread the following stands out:

OP and others saying they cannot gain weight/ are underweight are essentially saying that they are too lazy to make/eat actual meals. They eat slowly/play with their food and then get bored of the taste and fail to finish the meal.

No doubt there are psychological reasons behind some of this and I do not wish to diminish the role they play. However reading the stickies on nutrition and diet will give all the information OP needs on diet. The rest really is up to the individual person. There is a simple rule that we all know:-
Eat more calories than you use and you will gain weight.

With all due respect to the OP, if you actually had a faster than normal metabolism (or arguably even a normal metabolic rate) there wouldn't be much left of ya at this stage. Given the chronically low calories you actually consume, I'd wager your metabolic rate is well below average now.

Anybody who has tried gaining weight (especially WRT weight training) will tell you that your relationship with food changes. You simply have to eat regularly whether you're hungry or not. It all becomes about getting the calories and protein into your body regularly to support growth. It is in no way easy for all but the very genetically gifted among us.

Yes, you're right, damn us skinny slobs for being so lazy. If only we could have the amazing courage and determination of fat people who stuff their pie holes all damn day... This being said I always finish my meal. As for the metabolic rate, I don't know, I'm pretty sure I ate as much as all the other kids, yet I was always much more skinny. Really, my parents made some pretty full and equilibrated meals, and I ate as much as my father who weighted 80 kg...

Also I don't see why you say there wouldn't be much left of me at that stage. I always ate the recommended daily amount, never less than 1900 kcal a day. So what if everybody and their momma in this country eats twice as much? It doesn't change anything to the fact that for someone of my stature eating 2000 kcal a day is healthy. That's not chronically low.

Unrelatedly, this is the second day in a row I ate 2900 calories. Can I get a Mission Accomplished banner? How fast should I initially gain weight at that rate?

Shane101 wrote: »

Lack of willpower is what im seeing.

Right. I should point out that you're commenting on my diet of back when I couldn't care less about how many calories I ate, because I couldn't care less about trying to gain weight until I started this thread.

Shane101 wrote: »

Try some weight gainer. Cyto Gainer 6lb tub is what i was on gained a stone in a month, although i was eating the right foods aswell it isn't a quick fix but it will certainly help. Plenty of protein in it so keep up the gym.

Good to know, thanks!

g'em

Drop the defensiveness, people are just trying to help and you're not being particularly receptive to it - hardgainer made some valid points about your situation.

A_SN wrote: »

Yes, you're right, damn us skinny slobs for being so lazy.

He said you were lazy with regards to your meal choices, and judging by what you posted earlier I'd be inclined to agree:

A_SN wrote:

A typical day : breakfast with half a litre of milk and chocolate cereals soon after getting up, then at some point in the day eating one of those microwave meals, or Pot Noodles (I can easily take 3 hours to eat those, I kid you not, rice/pasta/noodles are the longest thing for me to eat, salads or anything containing bread and/or salad is the fastest, almost as fast as a regular person), that type of stuff. Oh and between a few hours after breakfast and before "lunch" I eat some cookies or crisps.

Chocolate cereals? Pot Noodles? Come on!

A big bowl of porridge with nut & honey topping, a couple of slices of wholemeal toast with peanut butter and a glass of milk/ OJ will easily rack up a few hudnred calories.

A_SN wrote:

If only we could have the amazing courage and determination of fat people who stuff their pie holes all damn day...

Seriously, what has that got to do with the price of turnips?

A_SN wrote:

This being said I always finish my meal.

But from the sounds of it you could eat better quality food, and you could perhaps try and eat a little quicker?

A_SN wrote:

As for the metabolic rate, I don't know, I'm pretty sure I ate as much as all the other kids, yet I was always much more skinny.

I'm not denouncing what you're saying, but it's actually really rare for people to have wildly over-active metabolisms. Chances are you were eating less or lower calorie foods than they were.

A_SN wrote:

Also I don't see why you say there wouldn't be much left of me at that stage. I always ate the recommended daily amount, never less than 1900 kcal a day. So what if everybody and their momma in this country eats twice as much? It doesn't change anything to the fact that for someone of my stature eating 2000 kcal a day is healthy. That's not chronically low.

Actually, it kind of is. At 6'1" and 55kg you're grossly underweight and a minimum of 2200 - 2300 cals/day would be needed for maitnenace, never mind gaining weight.

A_SN wrote:

Unrelatedly, this is the second day in a row I ate 2900 calories. Can I get a Mission Accomplished banner? How fast should I initially gain weight at that rate?

Well done. No banner Just yet though, stick to it for the next 6 weeks and we might dispense gold starts

Much like for weight loss though, you don't want to gain weight too fast. 1lb or maybe 2lb per week should be find for the time being.

This is going to be a long process, and it's one I think you need to stick given your current weight. Mellor made some great suggestions about food replacements, and you just need to make these small changes into habits so that you're doing them constantly without even paying attention to it.