Funerals and dying...

Coriolanus

So, I was at a funeral over the weekend and it got me and a couple of friends thinking about what's going to happen us.

What are the alternatives in Ireland? Personally I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered over Blessington Lakes but, if you want to be buried, are there non-Christian graveyards, or are the Christian graveyards amenable to non-Christians?

Also, the whole service etc. I've only ever been to a funeral in a Church. What are the alternatives? I remember being attracted to the idea of a Speaker for the Dead when I was growing up, but failing that, what about a shindig in a pub where everyone stands up and says their piece (if they want to)?

ChocolateSauce

Get your body crushed into a diamond. There's a Swiss company that does it for less than the price of a funeral, and you get the added bonus of being worn by your loved ones (do you like my ring? It's my wife :pac:).

MrPudding

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Get your body crushed into a diamond. There's a Swiss company that does it for less than the price of a funeral, and you get the added bonus of being worn by your loved ones (do you like my ring? It's my wife :pac:).

Quality. http://www.lifegem.com/

Personally I am leaning toward the woodland burial type thing.

MrP

Zillah

From an emotional point of view, I would like for my entire body to be instantly vaporised upon death. Ideally sitting on top of a nuclear weapon, that sort of thing. From a more reasonable point of view I would like as many of my organs to be harvested to save/help others as possible, and whatever is left to be incinerated or given a natural (worms!) burial, under a fruit tree perhaps.

I think the very last option would be a grotesque Catholic style embalming followed by internment. This notion of trying to prevent the body from decaying as though to pretend against or to cheat death, it's just creepy. Do something good with your body or let nature take its course. If you really think Jesus is going to resurrect everyone then I think restoring your decayed body would be a fairly trivial feat, no need to keep it preserved.

ironingbored

MrPudding wrote: »

Quality. http://www.lifegem.com/

Absolutely brilliant!

ChocolateSauce

MrPudding wrote: »

Quality. http://www.lifegem.com/

Personally I am leaning toward the woodland burial type thing.

MrP

LOL! There's a "family sized" discount. Has your whole family died in a horrible tragedy? Fear not! You'll save thousands with our multi-death super saver offer! Now in multicolours.

ShooterSF

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

LOL! There's a "family sized" discount. Has your whole family died in a horrible tragedy? Fear not! You'll save thousands with our multi-death super saver offer! Now in multicolours.

I assumed that meant multiple diamonds out of the one person. I'd be worried that they wouldn't use all of me and I'd end up on the black market

candy-gal1

Zillah wrote: »

From an emotional point of view, I would like for my entire body to be instantly vaporised upon death. Ideally sitting on top of a nuclear weapon, that sort of thing. From a more reasonable point of view I would like as many of my organs to be harvested to save/help others as possible, and whatever is left to be incinerated or given a natural (worms!) burial, under a fruit tree perhaps.

I think the very last option would be a grotesque Catholic style embalming followed by internment. This notion of trying to prevent the body from decaying as though to pretend against or to cheat death, it's just creepy. Do something good with your body or let nature take its course. If you really think Jesus is going to resurrect everyone then I think restoring your decayed body would be a fairly trivial feat, no need to keep it preserved.

i mean each to your own i say, but hoping to keep your body preserved as much as possible is just because the thought of being eaten by rats, worms, etc is just too horrible to think about.
plus the whole not giving organs idea is simply a mark of respect for yourself, i mean do u really want people opening u up and messing around with u, doing what they want with your body?! i wouldnt!
just a thought of something i think!:)

Stercus Accidit

When you die, the status quo is all your organs are removed, replaced with sawdust, and you are pumped with embalming fluid and covered in makeup so you look like you did at your debs.

The sanitised result is a delusion, much like chicken nuggets at macdonalds.

You are far better of being an organ donor, then cremated, than a stuffed husk dolled up for a night on the town with more slap than the young ones at the old wesley.

candy-gal1

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

When you die, the status quo is all your organs are removed, replaced with sawdust, and you are pumped with embalming fluid and covered in makeup so you look like you did at your debs.

The sanitised result is a delusion, much like chicken nuggets at macdonalds.

You are far better of being an organ donor, then cremated, than a stuffed husk dolled up for a night on the town with more slap than the young ones at the old wesley.

ok, thanks for the info, didnt know that actually

phasers

ChocolateSauce wrote: »

Get your body crushed into a diamond. There's a Swiss company that does it for less than the price of a funeral, and you get the added bonus of being worn by your loved ones (do you like my ring? It's my wife :pac:).

I just told my mam I want this done if I die and she said no because it's too creepy. Respect my wishes damnit!

drkpower

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

When you die, the status quo is all your organs are removed, replaced with sawdust, and you are pumped with embalming fluid and covered in makeup so you look like you did at your debs.

Where are you getting that from?
Unless you have consented to the removal of your organs, they cannot be removed.

Isnt (one of the functions of) the embalming process so that the body can be presented to the family prior to funeral/burial, particularly where any delay is envisaged befoore burial? I understand that, for most people, seeing a loved one in the flesh (as it were) is important to the grieving process, especially where death was unexpected or sudden. Seems like a laudable endeavour to me.

Stercus Accidit

drkpower wrote: »

Where are you getting that from?
Unless you have consented to the removal of your organs, they cannot be removed.

Isnt (one of the functions of) the embalming process so that the body can be presented to the family prior to funeral/burial, particularly where any delay is envisaged befoore burial? I understand that, for most people, seeing a loved one in the flesh (as it were) is important to the grieving process, especially where death was unexpected or sudden. Seems like a laudable endeavour to me.

Maybe I am wrong about the organs, but you are certainly pumped with chemicals and covered in makeup, I'd much rather having organs removed and used, than rot somewhere.

My point was that modern embalming as used for open caskets etc. is just another sanitised process to remove reality from our lives, whereas organ donation, the reality of which saves lives, but is considered 'icky' by some, is much better in reality.

Turtwig

Have been at two memorial ceremonies for non religious folk (one atheist, the other theist), both were lovely. No prayers or anything just a time to reflect on the deceased's life - beautiful really:)

Does anyone else think the irish funeral system is wayyyyyy too long and dragged out?

drkpower

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Maybe I am wrong about the organs, but you are certainly pumped with chemicals and covered in makeup, I'd much rather having organs removed and used, than rot somewhere.

My point was that modern embalming as used for open caskets etc. is just another sanitised process to remove reality from our lives, whereas organ donation, the reality of which saves lives, but is considered 'icky' by some, is much better in reality.

The embalming fluid is introudced throught the circulatory system and passes through the entire body but the organs are not removed. I do agree though, that organs are best used for transplantation but at the time of embalming, that option would no longer be possible and that discussion is for another thread anyway.

I dont really like the suggestion that embalming is wrong because it "removes reality from our lives". Surely, it is not unreasonable for a family in grieving to see their loved one (somewhat) as they remember them, not lifeless, gaunt, pale, not to mention some of the other unfortunate things that a body does in the aftermath of death that embalming helps to prevent? They have the rest of their lives to deal with the "reality" of a dead loved one; can you not give them a little piece of "unreality" to assist with their grieving?

ChocolateSauce

candy-gal1 wrote: »

i mean each to your own i say, but hoping to keep your body preserved as much as possible is just because the thought of being eaten by rats, worms, etc is just too horrible to think about.
plus the whole not giving organs idea is simply a mark of respect for yourself, i mean do u really want people opening u up and messing around with u, doing what they want with your body?! i wouldnt!
just a thought of something i think!:)

Can you please explain exactly how you'd be disrespecting yourself by giving your organs up for a dying person who needs them?

I find it rather disgusting that a person would value their own organs after death over the life of another person.

Stercus Accidit

Im not against embalming, more the idea that organ donation is interfering with the deceased or undesireable in some way when standard embalming is interferance anyway. Removing organs versus pickeling them, its all dead tissue anyway, why not use what can be used to help others? The stigma some people perceive is based on something far removed from reality.

bringitdown

Like the life gem idea.

My own wish is to be flung from a catapult in a measured arc, into a grave or similar suitable destination in the hope my flailing corpse would bring a smile to the faces of those I loved. Fireworks optional.

Granted rigour mortise may not help but the idea always makes me smile. Can't help but assume its the same from everyone else.

/edit: flailing corpse minus any donated organs ...

ChocolateSauce

My zany roommate wants to donate his body to ballistics research...sounds fun tbh! For the testers that is.

Turtwig

I want to be sent into a black hole:cool:
For 'science' of course

rccaulfield

Funeral home-crematorium-scattered in where i haven't met the place yet-howth head as a back-up! Then leave money for a get together for everyone for the rest of the day!

Zillah

candy-gal1 wrote: »

i mean do u really want people opening u up and messing around with u, doing what they want with your body?! i wouldnt!
just a thought of something i think!:)

I suggest you get over your ridiculously petty and childish fears and realise that once you're dead you don't need your body any more, and that by donating your organs you can let a family have a father for another decade rather than start arranging his funeral for the weekend.

Coriolanus

I like the life gem idea, if it's actually serious. Or the black hole! So you can live your life again in reverse! (10 points for anyone who gets the reference )

Daftendirekt

Personally, I'd like my body to either be buried in a forest somewhere (coffinless) or dropped into the ocean to give the sharks a feast.

Not before my organs have been harvested and anyone who needs them has been given a new lease on life, though.

I think the Life Gem thing is really cool too, but I kind of like idea of just letting my body kind of dissolve into the earth. Anyone ever read The Amber Spyglass? Remember what happened to the ghosts at the end? I always found that a very poetic way of looking at death.

Coriolanus

I haven't finished reading the Materials yet, don't say more! :mad:

Turtwig

Nevore wrote: »

I haven't finished reading the Materials yet, don't say more! :mad:

If you're reading this then you really should have known better Will and Lyra....:p

Daftendirekt

Nevore wrote: »

I haven't finished reading the Materials yet, don't say more! :mad:

Don't worry, I haven't given anything away. I'll say no more though.

Handsome Bob

I'll take the traditional funeral, simply because I'd like to be buried alongside my loved ones. I don't think I'd get away with anything else really, as my Dad would say (to my Mum) "I want to be fecking cremated but you won't allow it!" :pac:

Tordelback

I suggest you get over your ridiculously petty and childish fears and realise that once you're dead you don't need your body any more, and that by donating your organs you can let a family have a father for another decade rather than start arranging his funeral for the weekend.

Well said. It's also worth noting that you won't be attending your own funeral, whether you want to or not, so your aim should be to give the living a ceremony (or lack thereof) that addresses their needs.

Handsome Bob

That's Zillah for you, ever a man of the people. :pac:

bigdogbarking

Nevore wrote: »

....What are the alternatives in Ireland? Personally I want to be cremated and my ashes scattered over Blessington Lakes but, if you want to be buried, are there non-Christian graveyards, or are the Christian graveyards amenable to non-Christians?....

with regards to non christian graveyards, As far as i know most graveyards are on council land not the church's so there should be no problem buying a plot from the council to get buried in.its only a christian service that most people avail of.
my wish is to donate my organs then either burn or bury me. i don't care as long as there isn't a shred of religios-ness about it.

MetalDawg

My ideal funeral: have it in a marquee outside, No religion obviously, just everyone says a few words. Then cremated to the sound of Comfortably Numb by Pink Floyd (the live version off PULSE) then everyone back to mine and drink a f**ckload of beer.

Gregor Samsa

candy-gal1 wrote: »

the thought of being eaten by rats, worms, etc is just too horrible to think about.

The Cynic philosopher Diognes of Sinope requested that his body be left outside the city walls for animals to feast on. When asked if he minded that his body would be ravaged by animals, he said "Not at all, as long as you provide me with a stick to chase the creatures away!". When then questioned about how he would use the stick if he was dead, and therefore unaware, he said "If I lack awareness, then why should I care what happens to me when I am dead?"

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Maybe I am wrong about the organs, but you are certainly pumped with chemicals and covered in makeup

That happens if you're going to be cremated too. They still dress the corpse up for the removal, which is usually the day before the funeral (and cremation/burial). I'm sure it could be requested that it not be done (and no open casket) if you wanted.

I was talking to someone from the Irish Humanist Association a few months ago. He has conducted lots of secular funerals. Basically, he said that one of the places they do them is the cremation 'chapel' in Glasnevin cemetery, as it's not a church and can be used by anyone, yet it's dignified and set up for the purpose. He also told me about one he did in a hotel in Monaghan or somewhere - although most hotels aren't too keen on having a corpse lying around their function room.

Most graveyards are council property, so anyone can be buried in them (assuming there's room).

robindch

phutyle wrote: »

Most graveyards are council property, so anyone can be buried in them (assuming there's room).

If anybody's from Donegal and harboring doubts about the Great Bearded Wonder Beyond The Clouds, then keep them to yourself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/7588035.stm

kiffer

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Im not against embalming, more the idea that organ donation is interfering with the deceased or undesireable in some way when standard embalming is interferance anyway.

Why do we embalm our dead anyway?
How long does modern embalming preserve the body for? Why bother stopping it rotting anyway? Is embalming fluid toxic/bad for the soil? Is an un-embalmed body less bad for the soil/plants?

If one is laid to rest 6 feet under and a sapling is planted on top of you does the tree actually get any bonus out of your decaying body (or do you poison the soil?) or would it only help if you where properly composted first...

Stercus Accidit

robindch wrote: »

If anybody's from Donegal and harboring doubts about the Great Bearded Wonder Beyond The Clouds, then keep them to yourself:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/foyle_and_west/7588035.stm

Copy paste for us mobile boards athiests?

pts

Malty_T wrote: »

I want to be sent into a black hole:cool:
For 'science' of course

Might sound like fun and games, until someone explains the science of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1iJXOUMJpg

I think the technical term is "spaghettification". Of course if you're dead then you probably don't mind the excruciating pain

Dades

Stercus Accidit wrote: »

Copy paste for us mobile boards athiests?

No atheist burials in Co Donegal

Mr Greenslade's mother had to be buried in a cemetery in Derry

A Donegal atheist had to be buried in Londonderry because the county has no facilities for non-religious burials.

Journalist Roy Greenslade's mother was buried in Ballyowen cemetery in Derry on Tuesday after a humanist service.

He said he was told atheists could not be buried in Donegal because the graveyards are church-owned.

"Therefore unless one is willing to compromise one's beliefs by agreeing to a religious service, it is impossible to be buried," he said.

"There is a degree of black comedy about this, and my mother, who had a fantastic sense of humour, would certainly have laughed.

"When I rang up and asked Derry City Council's cemeteries department if it was possible to bury an atheist in a municipal cemetery they said it was possible because there were different sections for Catholics, Protestants and Muslims.

"My wife asked if it meant they were going to start an atheist section and the woman said, 'oh no, she can go in with the Protestants'."

A spokesperson from Donegal County Council said it is only responsible for old and unused graveyards.

Oh, and get an iPhone!

Jim

My grandfather died two years ago and being an (almost fanatical) atheist he didn't want religion playing any part in his funeral. The service was held in the cremetorium of Glasnevin cemetary. My uncle conducted the service, his children and friends went up and gave readings about him and inbetween the readings we sat and listened to some of his favourite music. I wont go into too much detail about how I felt but I have to say it was probably the happiest I've ever been at a funeral. He was then cremated and his ashes scattered in Spain.

Even if you are religious I can't imagine having a funeral any other way than the above. A preist's words are supposed to comfort (and for alot of people they do), but nowadays how many preists actually know anything about the deceased? My grandfather's funeral was so much more personal than one conducted by a preist and having religious readings etc could ever be.

Anyway, in the end we managed to avoid almost all aspects of it being a religious funeral, except that in the funeral home in his open coffin he was covered with a veil that had a cross embroidered on it. Noone minded that so much, but I thought it was funny that its almost impossible to get away from religion in this country.

kiffer

Dades wrote: »

Oh, and get an iPhone!

I had no trouble reading it on my n95... if you can use boards on your phone you can use most websites unless they are crazy flash/muck sites

Turtwig

pts wrote: »

Might sound like fun and games, until someone explains the science of it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h1iJXOUMJpg

I think the technical term is "spaghettification". Of course if you're dead then you probably don't mind the excruciating pain

I am dead, and by being dead I am no longer in existence so, yes, spaghettification would not bother me.
The reason why I chose the black hole was because it would take an infinite amount of time (relative to the observer on Earth) for my body to pass through the event horizon, or even decay!

Hence by that logic I would be Immortal:p.

Also as the black hole may actually be the start of a new universe my matter would go towards the creation of new life - Therefore I am both immortal and a creator : God!! (Just not all that loving or caring and most definitely dead)

Húrin

Zillah wrote: »

From an emotional point of view, I would like for my entire body to be instantly vaporised upon death. Ideally sitting on top of a nuclear weapon, that sort of thing.

NothingMan

I keep on telling my friends and family I want to be stuffed and mounted, but have yet to find anyone willing to put me above their fireplace.

Stercus Accidit

kiffer wrote: »

I had no trouble reading it on my n95... if you can use boards on your phone you can use most websites unless they are crazy flash/muck sites

I regret the LG viewty on a daily basis

ballsymchugh

embalming is a pretty recent thing in ireland. and i mean that compared to other countries. it's pretty common in the uk where funerals usually take place about a week after the death, unless the dead are muslim and they have to be buried the next day before sunset, so it's used to preserve the body
so it can probably be argued that embalming is an easy buck for the undertaker. the only difference in appearance is that a non embalmed person is a light shade of purple (after a day when the coffin would be closed at a regular Christian funeral), and the embalmed are glowing orange.

Zillah

Húrin wrote: »

YAAAHOOOOOO!!!

Zillah

ballsymchugh wrote: »

embalming is a pretty recent thing in ireland. and i mean that compared to other countries. it's pretty common in the uk where funerals usually take place about a week after the death, unless the dead are muslim and they have to be buried the next day before sunset, so it's used to preserve the body
so it can probably be argued that embalming is an easy buck for the undertaker. the only difference in appearance is that a non embalmed person is a light shade of purple (after a day when the coffin would be closed at a regular Christian funeral), and the embalmed are glowing orange.

Seriously, embalming is grotesque, just throw me in a hole so nature can take its course asap.

drkpower

Zillah wrote: »

Seriously, embalming is grotesque, just throw me in a hole so nature can take its course asap.

Bloody 'ell, grotesque....?

Remember, embalming is, in most cases, the temporary preservation of human remains specifically to delay decomposition in order to make the deceased suitable for display at a funeral. How can that it be grotesque to allow a family to see their family member somewhat as they remember them one last time......

Turtwig

I guess there are two schools of thought here:

One is that embalming takes somewhat away from the reality of death.
The other is that embalming allows the family to see their loved one as they remembered them. (Assuming they weren't mutilated in car crash or something, trust me I've seen this once and it's awful! There's a sign saying 'Do Not Touch the Corpse beside the casket!)

Personally, I have no gripe against embalming, I just think that the funeral process is two dragged out for the sake of the mourners health. Having said that if, as my parents once told me is true, we've come along way since the days of mourning a loss of a loved for an entire year while avoiding the mainstream public.

drkpower

Malty_T wrote: »

One is that embalming takes somewhat away from the reality of death.

I dont see how this is a factor. Im sure that every bereaved is 100% aware of the reality of death whether their loved one looks gaunt and grey or slightly less so.

The reality of death is right there, front and centre, when someone dies.

ChocolateSauce

drkpower wrote: »

The reality of death is right there, front and centre, when someone dies.

It seems to me that many people are only aware of the fantasy of death, and require some kind of hocus pocus to supposedly make these fantasies come true.